552 réponses à ce sujet

[Aurica]

20x6 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

StElmo wrote...

www.destructoid.com/mass-effect-3-makes-over-200-million-in-sales-227119.phtml

Kinda makes me feel irrelevant as a fan, I think I'm just going to give up all together. If they have all the money they need, why should they care about fan feedback?

Oh well, nice knowing you all, probably going to not bother with BSN anymore, if the game is a winner for EA, there's no point pressuring them to make changes or do anything to please fans.

You mean they don't need to make Extended Cut at all, but they're doing it anyway? And they don't care about our feedback?

Do you even see the contradiction? <_<

I won't argue the orginal post was a bit... mellodramatic.
How-EVAH!

I've posted this before in the last month or so.  I'll break it down again.

• Bioware is a niche gaming company.  Their audience is mainly geared towards the early twenties to mid thirty year old crew who enjoy a great story.
• Bioware found its place in a very competitive market by creating more market share.  They didn't really much of the existing market share.  Their major breakthrough was Neverwinter nights.  Not so much for the game itself, but the Aurora toolset.  DnD players now had the tools to make their dungeons come to life with a little C script and hak packs from the community.  This is not really the Call of Duty crowd...
• Bioware gets acquired by EA.  If you haven't noticed it, Mass Effect has undergone some obvious and some subtle changes over the three iterations.

• The first game was heavy RPG, Heavy Story, Large scope
• The second game evolved into a shooter with heavy character development, but small scope.
• The third game evolved into gears of war with the ME storyline and a plethora of characters needing closure.  Priority went to Chobot (to acquire a new fan base if possible... I mean, hey!  She licked something... and she has boobs!) and to multiplayer.  Next thing you know, they'll find a way to bring Nascar and deep fried twinkies into the franchise....  Move development OFF of the story and put it on frivolus things to tap into a different market than the current target audience.

This is basically where we are at.  Bioware is targeting the larger, less "cultured" mass of people who play online shooters for the sake of playing online shooters.  They are slowly moving Bioware into this realm because it is easier to keep that group of people entertained with a bunch of small efforts like making new maps, weapons and conditions for winning rather than writing more epic stories.  Someone spends 10 minutes making a weapon and EA pulls in a few million in sales.

---------------------

Back to the point...

Bioware is only releasing extended content for a high-risk PR move.  They haven't attracted the larger market to their brand yet - which means they still need their old fan base throwing money at them, but they need some kind of carrot to get the new fan base over to replace the old to, in short, maximize profits and lower the risk on investment by targetting the mainstream.

The extended content has abo****ely NOTHING to do with them "caring" as most normal people define "Caring".  This is all a strategic transition that didn't go as smoothly as they were hoping.


And if you don't believe me... look at a game company called Bungie.
Look at their old games and then look at them after Halo.

Marathon, Oni, Myth (all different and awesome)
Then Halo came out.... and that's all they do.


Hedge fund economics 101.
Find the lowest common denominator customer, take a product, dumb it down and rehash it over and over and over and then dump the old and aqcuire the new.



All of this tells me that they should have also brought that Snooki beast from jersy shore into ME3 as a love interest.  Vega needed some "COME AT BE BRO!" lines and the transition would have been complete.

Nice +1

[tvman099]

That's too bad. ME3 is one of the few times I've ended up with buyer's remorse. This game didn't deserve to succeed.

[kiyomizu]

There are plenty of precedents that can mirror the likely trajectory of Bioware should it continue with the ME franchise. To refer to a commonly linked product lets take the earnings of the Star Wars Prequal trilogy.

The hype over Episode 1 was intense, people bought the tickets regardless of what others might tell them and complained afterwards. Why? Because when a franchise is loved by its consumers they (the consumers) are not interested in listening to any negatives as they believe they can look past the problems or that the negativity is overhyped.

When Episode 2 came out, profits were down by over a third. It had no Jar Jar Binks and it even threw in what Lucas believed fans wanted (Yoda fighting with a light sabre). So why did it earn over a third less than Episode 1? Because people who saw Episode 1 had buyer's remorse - they felt in Episode 1 they were given an inferior product by a brand they once believed was reliable. They found themselves either aliented from the franchise or unwilling to spend money on something that they believed would fail to live up to expectations. In short the actions taken by Bioware in ME3 will have direct consequences for ME4.

It really didn't have to be this way. Take an example of a franchise that lived up to the expectations of consumers - Harry Potter. When viewing the earnings of the Harry Potter franchise all 7 of the films track closely to each other in terms of net profits - the exception being the final chapter that increased revenue by around 1 third (due likely to it being the final installment). Why was Harry Potter so consistent in revenue? Because consumers did not feel betrayed by the product. Certainly, there were plenty of fans who read the books who were upset at the treatment that certain films gave to sections of the books (or lack thereof), but overall the films did not introduce anything that could be considered an albatross to hang around the neck of the franchise - such as Jar Jar Binks or Starchild.

I would posit that it is probable that Bioware is now in the position with the ME franchise that irrespective of the quality of its next game it is likely to receive less revenue for it due to Mass Effect 3.

Modifié par kiyomizu, 09 mai 2012 - 10:09 .

[Mister Mida]

Okay, so it sold. Big deal. Justin Bieber's music sells well too, or so I have heard.

Sales numbers mean absolutely nothing when it comes down to quality of the product in question.

And I've yet to see how well Bioware's next game will sell. Sure, the ****s will buy it, but I doubt that demographic has a population of over a million.

EDIT: lol, they censured bio drone.

Modifié par Mister Mida, 09 mai 2012 - 10:17 .

[bjdbwea]

That's likely an exaggeration. It is quite certain that no matter the actual quality of the product, the next BioWare game will once again receive stellar reviews from most of the mainstream media. The hype machine will once again do its work too. That alone should make sure that the game will at least not be a commercial failure.

It is also important to remember that only a very small portion of the players participate in these forums. And even many of those who claim not to buy any other BioWare games, will most likely do so after all.

I for one did not pre-order ME 3, but apart from the ending, I think that it is a fantastic game. I would imagine that BioWare will release some very good DLCs for this game in time, and eventually the game will be remembered as the very good experience that it is until the terrible ending of the game. If BioWare even manage to salvage that with the upcoming DLC, which they might just do, I doubt that the sales of the next game will be decreased significantly by the current disappointment of some with ME 3.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 09 mai 2012 - 10:21 .

[Sir Fluffykins]

Derp? We all knew if did well, most of use pre-ordered and it's the bestseller of 2012 so far.

It was garenteed success! We moaned about the terrible/vague/open/alright/Indoctrinated ending and false promises and Bioware said they'll do the Extended Cut.

I don't see anyone losing. We're waiting for X-END: Son of Harbinger

Unless of course the X-End blows as well then 'll nerd-rage over everything -it won't be pretty

Modifié par Sir Fluffykins, 09 mai 2012 - 10:29 .

[Joccaren]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
They got fan feedback.  $200 million worth.  ME3 was a great game.  Start, middle, and end.  :lol:

Ask them to give a 100% refund to all those who didn't like the ending, and then we'll see.

[Funkdrspot]

Well, this is how it starts. It starts with a company selling out its core customers to attract more, and in the beginning they succeed. The fans make a big stink but they're making more money than ever. Who cares about a few angry fans compared to the millions of buyers?!

Fast forward 5-10 yrs later and sales are suddenly on life support. No one wants their new product. The PR team spins bad sales on piracy, bad weather, bad economy, etc but in reality they eventually just pissed enough people off to where it finally mattered. The problem is that only people in the know are able to realize this, so other businesses never learn the real reason company XYZ is now bankrupt and the cycle of stupidity continues.

EA and Activision actively avoid this issue by constantly acquiring new developers with new IP. They milk the IP for everything it's worth and move on to the next. They treat the developers and their IP as expendable. They're not trying to grow their franchises into the next Half-Life, Mario, Zelda or Metal Gear so they're free of the consequences.

So yeah, i give Bioware's IP ( ME, DA, SWTOR ) 5-10 yrs left before they're put out to pasture.

Modifié par Funkdrspot, 09 mai 2012 - 10:38 .

[Ridwan]

Funkdrspot wrote...

Well, this is how it starts. It starts with a company selling out its core customers to attract more, and in the beginning they succeed. The fans make a big stink but they're making more money than ever. Who cares about a few angry fans compared to the millions of buyers?!

Fast forward 5-10 yrs later and sales are suddenly on life support. No one wants their new product. The PR team spins bad sales on piracy, bad weather, bad economy, etc but in reality they eventually just pissed enough people off to where it finally mattered. The problem is that only people in the know are able to realize this, so other businesses never learn the real reason company XYZ is now bankrupt and the cycle of stupidity continues.

EA and Activision actively avoid this issue by constantly acquiring new developers with new IP. They milk the IP for everything it's worth and move on to the next. They treat the developers and their IP as expendable. They're not trying to grow their franchises into the next Half-Life, Mario, Zelda or Metal Gear so they're free of the consequences.

So yeah, i give Bioware's IP ( ME, DA, SWTOR ) 5-10 yrs left before they're put out to pasture.

This. Bioware doesn't have teflon armour folks. They're expendable.

[KotorEffect3]

Mister Mida wrote...


EDIT: lol, they censured bio drone.

Because dicks use that term to insult anybody that enjoys bioware's games.

[KotorEffect3]

Joccaren wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
They got fan feedback.  $200 million worth.  ME3 was a great game.  Start, middle, and end.  :lol:

Ask them to give a 100% refund to all those who didn't like the ending, and then we'll see.

And people wonder why the word entitlement comes up.

[Ridwan]

Consumers are entitled, as they should be.

[KotorEffect3]

M25105 wrote...

Consumers are entitled, as they should be.

bullcrap, you get what you pay for, nothing more.

[FlamingBoy]

tvman099 wrote...

That's too bad. ME3 is one of the few times I've ended up with buyer's remorse. This game didn't deserve to succeed.

feel the same way,
but think of it this way, they did not suceed on the level that they wanted to do, also swtor lost 400000 subscribers (which me3 might have played a small part it, however thats hardly conclusive)

on a final note we got very 1 sided information from ea, we do not know what the returns rates are

[Ridwan]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Consumers are entitled, as they should be.

bullcrap, you get what you pay for, nothing more.

And we paid for a game that would conclude the series in a way that our choices mattered. Which we didn't so we're entitled to voice our complain, demand a better ending like we were promised or take our business elsewhere.

Not everyone enjoys being taken in the rear by companies, you know?

[Clayless]

Good for them.

Though I would like to see some source for this.

[Ridwan]

I'm still wondering whether those 200 million are ACTUAL profit.

[KotorEffect3]

M25105 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Consumers are entitled, as they should be.

bullcrap, you get what you pay for, nothing more.

And we paid for a game that would conclude the series in a way that our choices mattered. Which we didn't so we're entitled to voice our complain, demand a better ending like we were promised or take our business elsewhere.

Not everyone enjoys being taken in the rear by companies, you know?

Apparently you didn't pay attention to Tuchanka or Rannoch.  I also like how you claim anybody that doesn't feel over entitled or is satisfied with the game as "taking it in the rear"

[legion999]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Consumers are entitled, as they should be.

bullcrap, you get what you pay for, nothing more.

I paid for a game where my decisions had consequences and the ending wasn't a piece of ****.
Can I get that game now please? "You get what you pay for" right?

[Ridwan]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Consumers are entitled, as they should be.

bullcrap, you get what you pay for, nothing more.

And we paid for a game that would conclude the series in a way that our choices mattered. Which we didn't so we're entitled to voice our complain, demand a better ending like we were promised or take our business elsewhere.

Not everyone enjoys being taken in the rear by companies, you know?

Apparently you didn't pay attention to Tuchanka or Rannoch.  I also like how you claim anybody that doesn't feel over entitled or is satisfied with the game as "taking it in the rear"

My God, you actually approve of this, less for more, right?

[DJRackham]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

DJRackham wrote...

Exozze wrote...

I don't understand where all the hate comes from. Sure the ending was terrible, there was lack of conversation options, the auto dialouge sucked, but hey. It was still one hell of a game!

You forgot to mention the game import bug, and the removal of assets from the Character Creator making it nearly impossible to import your Sheaprd with any degree of reliability or recognizability.

They patched the import thing.

Perhaps you should do a bit more research before you tow the company line there friend. 

Issue importing faces into Mass Effect 3 Updated March 21
Fan-Made Fix For Face Modification & Import Bugs Remaining After Patch 1.02
Face Import Bugs Remaining on the PC After Patch 1.02 and Fan-Made Workaround

What the v1.02 patch mainly seems to have done was  suppress the error many were receiving when trying to import saves created in ME 1 and then imported directly into ME 2 (also seems to affect some ME 2+ imports also). ME 3 is still missing many of the facial assets that were available in ME 2 (let alone ME 1). If you used a custom Shepard, there is a good chance that, when your save is imported into ME 3, your character will look pretty much nothing like your previous pre-import Shepards (especially true with FemShep imports).

Maybe this is a non-issue for you, but there are many of us for whom this is actually a pretty big deal. <_<

Modifié par DJRackham, 09 mai 2012 - 04:21 .

[The Night Mammoth]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Consumers are entitled, as they should be.

bullcrap, you get what you pay for, nothing more.

If you know exactly what you're buying, sure. 

A video game, if you hadn't noticed, is sold by showing small parts and hyping it up with the awesome features to entice the customer. Only once you've bought the game and finished it can evaluate whether you got what you paid for. 

Hence why this fiasco started; because a lot of people didn't think they recieved an adequate product. 

Then stuff like emotional investment, artistic integrity, entitlement, and all that subjective crap comes up. If the story is flawed, it's flawed, and it has been proven pretty conclusivley that there are flaws. You may not care about these flaws, but they still exist. 

Therefore, it should be BioWare's responsibility to acknowledge and fix these problems in the interest of maintaining the loyalty of their long-term fanbase, which in turn should improve sales down the line.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 09 mai 2012 - 11:40 .

[legion999]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Consumers are entitled, as they should be.

bullcrap, you get what you pay for, nothing more.

And we paid for a game that would conclude the series in a way that our choices mattered. Which we didn't so we're entitled to voice our complain, demand a better ending like we were promised or take our business elsewhere.

Not everyone enjoys being taken in the rear by companies, you know?

Apparently you didn't pay attention to Tuchanka or Rannoch.  I also like how you claim anybody that doesn't feel over entitled or is satisfied with the game as "taking it in the rear"

Apparently you didn't pay attention to "conclude the series in a way our choices matter". And two good parts do not a game make.

[DJRackham]

**Odd double post**

Modifié par DJRackham, 09 mai 2012 - 04:18 .

[KotorEffect3]

legion999 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Consumers are entitled, as they should be.

bullcrap, you get what you pay for, nothing more.

And we paid for a game that would conclude the series in a way that our choices mattered. Which we didn't so we're entitled to voice our complain, demand a better ending like we were promised or take our business elsewhere.

Not everyone enjoys being taken in the rear by companies, you know?

Apparently you didn't pay attention to Tuchanka or Rannoch.  I also like how you claim anybody that doesn't feel over entitled or is satisfied with the game as "taking it in the rear"

Apparently you didn't pay attention to "conclude the series in a way our choices matter". And two good parts do not a game make.

Two parts that probably consisted of most of the game and most of the other missions were pretty good as well.  Sorry but I don't let the last 5 minutes of a game ruin the awesome 40 hour experience for me.