[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...
[quote]sAxMoNkI wrote...
[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...
[quote]sAxMoNkI wrote...
[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...
[quote]sAxMoNkI wrote...
[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...
[quote]sAxMoNkI wrote...
You think the governments of today would help each other out just out of the kindness of their hearts?
Everyone wants something and even in the face of danger and war governments persue oppurtunities to gain the upperhand on other nations.
[/quote]
If those nations were facing a threat which threatened to wipe them out collectively, yes.
[/quote]
Then I'm either very cynical of politicians or you are very naive to the mechanics of brokering alliances and the compromises that must be made.
[/quote]
So if the Reapers attacked modern day Earth, destroying New York, and Bejiing, London and Tokyo. And they prepared to attack Russia, and Spain, and Chile, and Argentina which could easily be seen by their movements, you think that all of these nations would refuse to coordinate and strategize?
[/quote]
I think similarly to in game, they would prioritise securing their own borders and spare resources to others only if possible. Russia and any former USSR ruled state working together willingly? Very unlikely without compromise.
[/quote]
In the face of the extinction of the entire human race by an alien threat? I doubt they would hesitate much.
[/quote]
You see what we have here is an impasse.
I believe people are fundamentally selfish mammals who when push comes to shove look out for their own.
(Correct me if I'm wrong) But it appears that you believe that people would have a logical rational response to a global threat.
If this were so why are nations not working together to cut pollution and find more eco-friendly alternatives? Arguably the end result of pollution etc is the same as a reaper invasion...our extinction. Yet not all nations signed the Kyoto treaty for example even though it is in everyone's best interests to cut emissions.
(I am also not a hippy/ eco-warrior/ etc just using the example to get my point across)
[/quote]
The Kyoto treaty specifically exempts the two biggest polluters on the planet, China and India. It's not exactly flawless.
[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...
[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...
[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...
[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...
[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...
1.
The Council itself is a representative institution. They are appointed
and reach consensus on behalf of their individual races. Bioware
tellingly portrays them in a negative light.
2. The Turians are shown
to be rigid, yes. But that is a by-product of their superior
government, which is synonymous with their military. It is they who are
most successful against the Reapers, not only because their military was
stronger at the beginning, but because of the willingness of their
militaristic people.
[/quote]
1. The council is an
oligarchy. It's composed of the most powerful species in the galaxy,
while the majority don't even have a voice in deciding their own fate.
They are
appointed representatives, two of which do not even
represent democratic species, the Turian councilor having a consistently
negative portrayal across the first two games.
2. They're the most
successful because they have the largest military, and were also facing a
smaller Reaper force than humanity, who had a volunteer military and
was also much newer to the galactic stage. The rigidity is a by-product
of their nature, they tend very heavily towards groupthink.
[/quote]
1. I never said the council was portrayed positively, simply because it is not a militaristic organization.
2.
Their military size is a result of their government. The two are
synonymous. The fact the humanity lacked the same, is the reason its
facing near extinction.
[/quote]
1. So first they're
portrayed negatively because they're a representative institution(which
they're not) now it's because they're not militaristic. They're a
bureaucracy, what do you want? Direct subjugation of the species who
appoint them? With what fleets? Everything they have is borrowed or
donated by one of the member species.
2. A larger military doing
better is not indicative of some agenda, it's indicative of logic. Look
at real life. Democracies do tend to maintain relatively smaller
militaries, because the public simply isn't willing to support the
expense, nor are they willing to be drafted to fill its ranks except in
emergencies. Humanity being the focus of the Reapers because we're so
special and diverse, the smalller military was also hit by a stronger
foe. Their military is also a result of their nature. Again, they tend
towards group think and self-sacrifice, good of the many over the needs
of the few, etc. Their government could not support such a large
military if the populace were not behind it.
[/quote]
1. They are semi-representative because they do represent the interests of their people.
2.
The reason the turians are able to have such a large military is
because every one of their citizens is a soldier. They are all willing
to fight to the death for their Hierarchy, and do not know how to
retreat. Very similar to Japan in WWII actually.
[/quote]
1. Which has nothing at all to do with your assertion.They represent the interests of the governments who appointed them. Two of which are not democracies. They are not the representative democracy you claim Bioware hates. Stop dodging the issue. Of course next post you'll just switch back to "it's because they're not militaristic." To which I'll preemptively point you to my post quoted above that you avoided 90% of the first point to focus back on "they're representative".
2. Again, this, and their government are a result of Turian nature, which is to equate the self with the group and tends towards self-sacrifice and service. As for not retreating:
[quote]
Turians: Military Doctrine
data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DAlthough they lack the brutality of the
krogan, the skill of the
asari, and the virtuosity of the
humans, the
turian military has formidable discipline. Officers and NCOs are "lifers" with
years of field experience. Enlisted personnel are thoroughly trained
and stay calm under fire. Turian units don't break. Even if their entire
line collapses, they fall back in order, setting ambushes as they go. A
popular saying holds: "You will only see a turian's back once he's
dead."[/quote]
[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...
[quote]sAxMoNkI wrote...
[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...
[quote]sAxMoNkI wrote...
You see what we have here is an impasse.
I believe people are fundamentally selfish mammals who when push comes to shove look out for their own.
(Correct me if I'm wrong) But it appears that you believe that people would have a logical rational response to a global threat.
If
this were so why are nations not working together to cut pollution and
find more eco-friendly alternatives? Arguably the end result of
pollution etc is the same as a reaper invasion...our extinction. Yet not
all nations signed the Kyoto treaty for example even though it is in
everyone's best interests to cut emissions.
(I am also not a hippy/ eco-warrior/ etc just using the example to get my point across)
[/quote]
Because
they are willing to have extra pollution in the short term in exchange
for slower changes. That's not the same as the entire human race facing
eminent extinction.
This is all getting off topic anyway.
[/quote]
People who start threads about percieved political agendas in a game forum shouldn't really comment about off topic...
[/quote]
Yeah.
No.
[/quote]
Stunning rebuttal there.
[/quote]
How can a topic about a topic be off-topic? How am I supposed to rebut that logic? It doesn't matter if you like the topic. It's about a theme in the game which can easily be discerned.
1.Maybe it's not representative. That's not even important. What's important is not what isn't being supported, but what is. The Turian government is portrayed as an ideal.
2. It's that very nature which Bioware is imporing its fans to accept. A militaristic, disciplined spirit.
3. We can argue about the semantics of the word retreat all day. The turian military ethic will never allow its military to be routed into disarray until every turian is dead.
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