266 réponses à ce sujet

[antares_sublight]

Catamantaloedis wrote...
Clearly Bioware, however, no longer supports civilian rule and is covertly spreading propaganda calling for the overthrow of the governments of the United States, Canada, and Western Europe in favor of Fascist regimes.

What about democracies in Eastern Europe? Or Africa? South America? Australia maybe? BioWare isn't trying to take down those as well? That's odd. Aren't the reapers the most fascist of them all? They get "eliminated".

(although so I think synthesis is kind of fascist, or at the very least naively & delusionally maniacal) *runs*

[sAxMoNkI]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

sAxMoNkI wrote...

You realise if anything that Bioware is merely playing to the established stereotype that politicians=scumbags. Ask anyone on the street what they think about politicians. I can guess what they'll say....

But if you asked them about their favorite politican who they voted for, they probably wouldn't say the same.

But there is no reason that a moral person who vote for any politician which Bioware presented in this series.

In your opinion. I know many who think that voting is a case of picking the lesser evil. Also it should be mentioned that political motivations, issues and other motivations may be wildly different in the future when compared to now.

On a side note while the council is comprised of appointed individual from each species, each species still has a law making body to govern its race. Granted the Turian system is a Hierarchy but it is also a meritocracy so if you become Primarch then you accomplished a great deal and earned respect from your peers. The Asari are a conglomoration of republics each representing their interests in a more standard democratical model, I would argue this is similar for the Salarians however the Dalatrasses do not appear to be elected.

As for humans nation state governments seem to still be intact but choose to be represented by the Systems Alliance when dealing with interstellar policy. Again the politicians comprising the Systems Alliance parliament are elected.

[Catamantaloedis]

antares_sublight wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...
Clearly Bioware, however, no longer supports civilian rule and is covertly spreading propaganda calling for the overthrow of the governments of the United States, Canada, and Western Europe in favor of Fascist regimes.

What about democracies in Eastern Europe? Or Africa? South America? Australia maybe? BioWare isn't trying to take down those as well? That's odd. Aren't the reapers the most fascist of them all? They get "eliminated".

(although so I think synthesis is kind of fascist, or at the very least naively & delusionally maniacal) *runs*

Bioware doesn't need an overthrow throughout the world. Once the West falls, the rest will come tumbling down.

classic domino theory.

[ediskrad327]

SirCroft wrote...

Konane117 wrote...

nhcre8tv1 wrote...

GLR-0053 wrote...

I should go...

[Deuterium_Dawn]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...
 the Salarians, who avoid war as best they can, damn near refuse to assist you.

...What? The Salarians are not pacifists, nor are they a democracy or democratic in any way. They're described as feudal, with negotiations among the matriarchal Dalatrasses determing who leads the Salarian people who are essentially brainwashed at birth. They don't have a strong conventional military, but they do have the best intelligence service in the galaxy, and a doctrine that heavily favors preemptive strikes. Given the tone of the rest of your post I have to assume you're trolling(especially the "attempting to silence me" bit). Good day.

They're not militaristic. They'd rather run from conflict, or have others fight before they have to get involved. Or use *Gasp* science to win conflicts for them. Bioware doesn't want any of that.

None of the racists are pacifists.

They don't have numbers or conventional military strength, so they make maximum use of what they do have, preferring to win wars before they've begun.  The Salarians as a nation are fairly ruthless.Getting others, like the Turians and Krogan, to do your dirty work rather than slogging it out in the trenches your self is cold and manipulative but it doesn't make you a coward. And as Kirrahe points out rather dramatically, in the centuries of conflict prior to the Krogan Uplift and the Turian intervention in the Krogan Rebellions they were fighting, or "holding the line" as he put it. And the genophage, which was actually deployed by the Turians, was again the Salarians using their brains.  You're really stretching to fit the Salarians into an archetype they don't match so you can point at them as evidence of your "theory". Though where you get the idea that militaristic societies/dictatorships don't take advantage of techology I don't know. 

ediskrad327 wrote...

SirCroft wrote...

Konane117 wrote...

nhcre8tv1 wrote...

GLR-0053 wrote...

I should go...

Modifié par Deuterium_Dawn, 08 mai 2012 - 08:44 .

[Catamantaloedis]

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

sAxMoNkI wrote...

You realise if anything that Bioware is merely playing to the established stereotype that politicians=scumbags. Ask anyone on the street what they think about politicians. I can guess what they'll say....

But if you asked them about their favorite politican who they voted for, they probably wouldn't say the same.

But there is no reason that a moral person who vote for any politician which Bioware presented in this series.

In your opinion. I know many who think that voting is a case of picking the lesser evil. Also it should be mentioned that political motivations, issues and other motivations may be wildly different in the future when compared to now.

On a side note while the council is comprised of appointed individual from each species, each species still has a law making body to govern its race. Granted the Turian system is a Hierarchy but it is also a meritocracy so if you become Primarch then you accomplished a great deal and earned respect from your peers. The Asari are a conglomoration of republics each representing their interests in a more standard democratical model, I would argue this is similar for the Salarians however the Dalatrasses do not appear to be elected.

As for humans nation state governments seem to still be intact but choose to be represented by the Systems Alliance when dealing with interstellar policy. Again the politicians comprising the Systems Alliance parliament are elected.

And guess which of those is Bioware's favored race? Not the democratic Asari or humans, or the cowardly, puny Salarians. The Turians, with their unelected, militaristic government and way of life are Bioware's star race.

[legion999]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...
Clearly Bioware, however, no longer supports civilian rule and is covertly spreading propaganda calling for the overthrow of the governments of the United States, Canada, and Western Europe in favor of Fascist regimes.

What about democracies in Eastern Europe? Or Africa? South America? Australia maybe? BioWare isn't trying to take down those as well? That's odd. Aren't the reapers the most fascist of them all? They get "eliminated".

(although so I think synthesis is kind of fascist, or at the very least naively & delusionally maniacal) *runs*

Bioware doesn't need an overthrow throughout the world. Once the West falls, the rest will come tumbling down.

classic domino theory.

Oh this is one of these "conspiracy theories isn't it?

[Titus Thongger]

you have waaay too much time on your hands if you think about something like this.

[antares_sublight]

Catamantaloedis wrote...
Bioware doesn't need an overthrow throughout the world. Once the West falls, the rest will come tumbling down.

classic domino theory.

You realize you're talking about the same people who made the Mass Effect 3 ending, right? I don't think they have that level of sophistication or forethought in them.

By the way, how is the game supposed to do all this anyway?

[antares_sublight]

Catamantaloedis wrote...
And guess which of those is Bioware's favored race? Not the democratic Asari or humans, or the cowardly, puny Salarians. The Turians, with their unelected, militaristic government and way of life are Bioware's star race.

Says who and how? Humans have a tremendously oversized role and impact in the ME universe.

[Catamantaloedis]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...
 the Salarians, who avoid war as best they can, damn near refuse to assist you.

...What? The Salarians are not pacifists, nor are they a democracy or democratic in any way. They're described as feudal, with negotiations among the matriarchal Dalatrasses determing who leads the Salarian people who are essentially brainwashed at birth. They don't have a strong conventional military, but they do have the best intelligence service in the galaxy, and a doctrine that heavily favors preemptive strikes. Given the tone of the rest of your post I have to assume you're trolling(especially the "attempting to silence me" bit). Good day.

They're not militaristic. They'd rather run from conflict, or have others fight before they have to get involved. Or use *Gasp* science to win conflicts for them. Bioware doesn't want any of that.

None of the racists are pacifists.

They don't have numbers or conventional military strength, so they make maximum use of what they do have, preferring to win wars before they've begun.  The Salarians as a nation are fairly ruthless.Getting others, like the Turians and Krogan, to do your dirty work rather than slogging it out in the trenches your self is cold and manipulative but it doesn't make you a coward. And as Kirrahe points out rather dramatically, in the centuries of conflict prior to the Krogan Uplift and the Turian intervention in the Krogan Rebellions they were fighting, or "holding the line" as he put it. And the genophage, which was actually deployed by the Turians, was again the Salarians using their brains.  You're really stretching to fit the Salarians into an archetype they don't match so you can point at them as evidence of your "theory". Though where you get the idea that militaristic societies/dictatorships don't take advantage of techology I don't know. 

Bioware hates them specifically because they hide behind others. They had to fight the Krogan rebellions, because they HAD too. The simple fact that they had to fight, meant that the Salarians failed in their prime strategy.

Being ruthless is irrelevant. They are manipulative, yes, just like the politicians whom Bioware also hates.

The Turians however, don't hide behind anyone. They don't play diplomacy. If you threaten them, they destroy you.

Modifié par Catamantaloedis, 08 mai 2012 - 08:49 .

[Karolus_V]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Every democratically elected or representative political figure is either portrayed as a self-serving, coward or power-hungry and corrupt(Udina). While Anderson, a universally agreed upon good guy and father figure of the story, is unable to continue in the rotten work of not fighting and securing the resources which humanity needs, resigns to go fight. The militaristic society of the Turians is illustrated as an ideal with its strict discipline, but broad individual freedoms. They even seem to be most successful at fighting the Reapers, not doubt as propaganda supporting Bioware's militarism. Yet, the cultured,effeminate Asari, drag their feet, until their homeworld falls and the Salarians, who avoid war as best they can, damn near refuse to assist you.Everyone who is forced to leave the battle, ie James, Victus and the (wo)man him/herself, Shepard, complain that they would rather be fighting, even though they would probably be vaporized at any moment, than do unmanly things like diplomacy and alliance crafting. Instead of getting someone useful, like a scientist, for the Prothean squadmate, Bioware instead decides to give you (Guess) a soldier, one who is the most shamelessly militaristic of the whole bunch.

All in all, Mass Effect is propaganda supporting the creation of military dictatorships throughout the Western world. Beware!

edit:

Don't know why my text never appears when I originally post it. Maybe Bioware attempting to silence me?

BWAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHHA

Good one , really, good one ;D.

[sAxMoNkI]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

sAxMoNkI wrote...

You realise if anything that Bioware is merely playing to the established stereotype that politicians=scumbags. Ask anyone on the street what they think about politicians. I can guess what they'll say....

But if you asked them about their favorite politican who they voted for, they probably wouldn't say the same.

But there is no reason that a moral person who vote for any politician which Bioware presented in this series.

In your opinion. I know many who think that voting is a case of picking the lesser evil. Also it should be mentioned that political motivations, issues and other motivations may be wildly different in the future when compared to now.

On a side note while the council is comprised of appointed individual from each species, each species still has a law making body to govern its race. Granted the Turian system is a Hierarchy but it is also a meritocracy so if you become Primarch then you accomplished a great deal and earned respect from your peers. The Asari are a conglomoration of republics each representing their interests in a more standard democratical model, I would argue this is similar for the Salarians however the Dalatrasses do not appear to be elected.

As for humans nation state governments seem to still be intact but choose to be represented by the Systems Alliance when dealing with interstellar policy. Again the politicians comprising the Systems Alliance parliament are elected.

And guess which of those is Bioware's favored race? Not the democratic Asari or humans, or the cowardly, puny Salarians. The Turians, with their unelected, militaristic government and way of life are Bioware's star race.

Why are you so sure the Turians are the favoured race? It could be argued that in fact Bioware gave the games (specifically ME3) a far too human-centric feel.
The reason the Turians are lauded by the galactic community however is precisely because they can win wars and have proven to be the best peacekeeping force in the galaxy.
As I also previously mentioned the Turian Hierarchy is a MERITOCRACY.

Therefore while not elected in a traditional sense the figures in power have earned their place by earning the respect of their peers and higher ups and earned their position.

Arguably this makes them better suited to positions of power as only the best of the best get to the top. There would be no concerns of inexperience or "unfavourable" traits i.e. deceit, lying, etc as if that were they case they would never have gotten the job to begin with.

[Boradam]

SirCroft wrote...

Konane117 wrote...

nhcre8tv1 wrote...

GLR-0053 wrote...

I should go...

Modifié par Boradam, 08 mai 2012 - 08:54 .

[Catamantaloedis]

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

sAxMoNkI wrote...

You realise if anything that Bioware is merely playing to the established stereotype that politicians=scumbags. Ask anyone on the street what they think about politicians. I can guess what they'll say....

But if you asked them about their favorite politican who they voted for, they probably wouldn't say the same.

But there is no reason that a moral person who vote for any politician which Bioware presented in this series.

In your opinion. I know many who think that voting is a case of picking the lesser evil. Also it should be mentioned that political motivations, issues and other motivations may be wildly different in the future when compared to now.

On a side note while the council is comprised of appointed individual from each species, each species still has a law making body to govern its race. Granted the Turian system is a Hierarchy but it is also a meritocracy so if you become Primarch then you accomplished a great deal and earned respect from your peers. The Asari are a conglomoration of republics each representing their interests in a more standard democratical model, I would argue this is similar for the Salarians however the Dalatrasses do not appear to be elected.

As for humans nation state governments seem to still be intact but choose to be represented by the Systems Alliance when dealing with interstellar policy. Again the politicians comprising the Systems Alliance parliament are elected.

And guess which of those is Bioware's favored race? Not the democratic Asari or humans, or the cowardly, puny Salarians. The Turians, with their unelected, militaristic government and way of life are Bioware's star race.

Why are you so sure the Turians are the favoured race? It could be argued that in fact Bioware gave the games (specifically ME3) a far too human-centric feel.
The reason the Turians are lauded by the galactic community however is precisely because they can win wars and have proven to be the best peacekeeping force in the galaxy.
As I also previously mentioned the Turian Hierarchy is a MERITOCRACY.

Therefore while not elected in a traditional sense the figures in power have earned their place by earning the respect of their peers and higher ups and earned their position.

Arguably this makes them better suited to positions of power as only the best of the best get to the top. There would be no concerns of inexperience or "unfavourable" traits i.e. deceit, lying, etc as if that were they case they would never have gotten the job to begin with.

They are a meritocracy, but they are also militaristic, as a culture, and autocratic as a government. You're only making arguments in support of what I'm saying.

Of course the series has a human-centric feel, because Bioware is full of humans. But their depiction of the most common human form of government, representative democracy, is unsympathetically negative. 

[Boradam]

Catamantaloedis wrote...
lolwat

I'll be going now.

Modifié par Boradam, 08 mai 2012 - 08:56 .

[Deuterium_Dawn]

Catamantaloedis wrote...
Of course the series has a human-centric feel, because Bioware is full of humans. But their depiction of the most common human Western form of government, representative democracy, is unsympathetically negative. 

Fixed that for you.

[Catamantaloedis]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...
Of course the series has a human-centric feel, because Bioware is full of humans. But their depiction of the most common human Western form of government, representative democracy, is unsympathetically negative. 

Fixed that for you.

"electoral democracies now represent 120 of the 192 existing countries "

Those aren't all Western governments.

http://en.wikipedia...._21st_centuries

Modifié par Catamantaloedis, 08 mai 2012 - 08:57 .

[Deuterium_Dawn]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...
Of course the series has a human-centric feel, because Bioware is full of humans. But their depiction of the most common human Western form of government, representative democracy, is unsympathetically negative. 

Fixed that for you.

"electoral democracies now represent 120 of the 192 existing countries "

Those aren't all Western governments.

http://en.wikipedia...._21st_centuries

At the same time liberal democracies i.e. countries Freedom House
regards as free and respectful of basic human rights and the rule of law
are 85 in number and represent 38 percent of the global population.

Calling it a democracy and it actually being a democracy are two different things.

[sAxMoNkI]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Why are you so sure the Turians are the favoured race? It could be argued that in fact Bioware gave the games (specifically ME3) a far too human-centric feel.
The reason the Turians are lauded by the galactic community however is precisely because they can win wars and have proven to be the best peacekeeping force in the galaxy.
As I also previously mentioned the Turian Hierarchy is a MERITOCRACY.

Therefore while not elected in a traditional sense the figures in power have earned their place by earning the respect of their peers and higher ups and earned their position.

Arguably this makes them better suited to positions of power as only the best of the best get to the top. There would be no concerns of inexperience or "unfavourable" traits i.e. deceit, lying, etc as if that were they case they would never have gotten the job to begin with.

They are a meritocracy, but they are also militaristic, as a culture, and autocratic as a government. You're only making arguments in support of what I'm saying.

Of course the series has a human-centric feel, because Bioware is full of humans. But their depiction of the most common human form of government, representative democracy, is unsympathetically negative. 

How so?

Also name me one current nation this isn't militaristic? Last I checked every country has a military and spends a considerable amount of money maintaing it.

Their depiction of democracy isn't negative, when it comes to quick decisions democracies fall down. That it a fact, having many viewpoints is the biggest strength but also the biggest weakness of a democracy.

Like I said in times of urgency when quick decisions are required it is easy to see politicians as just being in the way.

[Catamantaloedis]

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Why are you so sure the Turians are the favoured race? It could be argued that in fact Bioware gave the games (specifically ME3) a far too human-centric feel.
The reason the Turians are lauded by the galactic community however is precisely because they can win wars and have proven to be the best peacekeeping force in the galaxy.
As I also previously mentioned the Turian Hierarchy is a MERITOCRACY.

Therefore while not elected in a traditional sense the figures in power have earned their place by earning the respect of their peers and higher ups and earned their position.

Arguably this makes them better suited to positions of power as only the best of the best get to the top. There would be no concerns of inexperience or "unfavourable" traits i.e. deceit, lying, etc as if that were they case they would never have gotten the job to begin with.

They are a meritocracy, but they are also militaristic, as a culture, and autocratic as a government. You're only making arguments in support of what I'm saying.

Of course the series has a human-centric feel, because Bioware is full of humans. But their depiction of the most common human form of government, representative democracy, is unsympathetically negative. 

How so?

Also name me one current nation this isn't militaristic? Last I checked every country has a military and spends a considerable amount of money maintaing it.

Their depiction of democracy isn't negative, when it comes to quick decisions democracies fall down. That it a fact, having many viewpoints is the biggest strength but also the biggest weakness of a democracy.

Like I said in times of urgency when quick decisions are required it is easy to see politicians as just being in the way.

There's a difference between having a military, and being militaristic. Germany before WWI + II was militaristic. Ancient Rome was militaristic. Switzerland is not militaristic.

[Catamantaloedis]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...
Of course the series has a human-centric feel, because Bioware is full of humans. But their depiction of the most common human Western form of government, representative democracy, is unsympathetically negative. 

Fixed that for you.

"electoral democracies now represent 120 of the 192 existing countries "

Those aren't all Western governments.

http://en.wikipedia...._21st_centuries

At the same time liberal democracies i.e. countries Freedom House
regards as free and respectful of basic human rights and the rule of law
are 85 in number and represent 38 percent of the global population.

Calling it a democracy and it actually being a democracy are two different things.

If you vote for someone, then it is a partly democratic government. It is irrelevant if their government is completely democratic or not.

Everything you posted is irrelevant anyway. This topic isn't about how many countries are democratic or not.

[OneWithTheAssassins]

Troll-lol-lol-lol-lol lol-lol-lol lol-lol-lol ho-ho-ho-ho!

[Deuterium_Dawn]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...
Of course the series has a human-centric feel, because Bioware is full of humans. But their depiction of the most common human Western form of government, representative democracy, is unsympathetically negative. 

Fixed that for you.

"electoral democracies now represent 120 of the 192 existing countries "

Those aren't all Western governments.

http://en.wikipedia...._21st_centuries

At the same time liberal democracies i.e. countries Freedom House
regards as free and respectful of basic human rights and the rule of law
are 85 in number and represent 38 percent of the global population.

Calling it a democracy and it actually being a democracy are two different things.

If you vote for someone, then it is a partly democratic government. It is irrelevant if their government is completely democratic or not.

Everything you posted is irrelevant anyway. This topic isn't about how many countries are democratic or not.

The Soviet Union had elections. They were not a democracy. They were certainly not the representative democracy you claim Bioware hates so much. And don't make assertions about human governments if you don't want people to respond.

[sAxMoNkI]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Why are you so sure the Turians are the favoured race? It could be argued that in fact Bioware gave the games (specifically ME3) a far too human-centric feel.
The reason the Turians are lauded by the galactic community however is precisely because they can win wars and have proven to be the best peacekeeping force in the galaxy.
As I also previously mentioned the Turian Hierarchy is a MERITOCRACY.

Therefore while not elected in a traditional sense the figures in power have earned their place by earning the respect of their peers and higher ups and earned their position.

Arguably this makes them better suited to positions of power as only the best of the best get to the top. There would be no concerns of inexperience or "unfavourable" traits i.e. deceit, lying, etc as if that were they case they would never have gotten the job to begin with.

They are a meritocracy, but they are also militaristic, as a culture, and autocratic as a government. You're only making arguments in support of what I'm saying.

Of course the series has a human-centric feel, because Bioware is full of humans. But their depiction of the most common human form of government, representative democracy, is unsympathetically negative. 

How so?

Also name me one current nation this isn't militaristic? Last I checked every country has a military and spends a considerable amount of money maintaing it.

Their depiction of democracy isn't negative, when it comes to quick decisions democracies fall down. That it a fact, having many viewpoints is the biggest strength but also the biggest weakness of a democracy.

Like I said in times of urgency when quick decisions are required it is easy to see politicians as just being in the way.

There's a difference between having a military, and being militaristic. Germany before WWI + II was militaristic. Ancient Rome was militaristic. Switzerland is not militaristic.

Ok I see your point regarding militarism. But by that definition the Turians are not militaristic in that they do not instigate fights, rather they finish them. The Krogan would be a far better example of a militaristic society and are very reminiscent of immediate post WWI Germany due to their demilitarisation and harboured resentment towards the nations responsible for their defeat (Turians and Salarians in the case of the Krogan).