266 réponses à ce sujet

[Catamantaloedis]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...
Of course the series has a human-centric feel, because Bioware is full of humans. But their depiction of the most common human Western form of government, representative democracy, is unsympathetically negative. 

Fixed that for you.

"electoral democracies now represent 120 of the 192 existing countries "

Those aren't all Western governments.

http://en.wikipedia...._21st_centuries

At the same time liberal democracies i.e. countries Freedom House
regards as free and respectful of basic human rights and the rule of law
are 85 in number and represent 38 percent of the global population.

Calling it a democracy and it actually being a democracy are two different things.

If you vote for someone, then it is a partly democratic government. It is irrelevant if their government is completely democratic or not.

Everything you posted is irrelevant anyway. This topic isn't about how many countries are democratic or not.

The Soviet Union had elections. They were not a democracy. They were certainly not the representative democracy you claim Bioware hates so much. And don't make assertions about human governments if you don't want people to respond.

Then they were partly democratic. Again, I'm not arguing points anymore that I aren't related to the topic. Just because democracy is not "necessarily" the majority on earth, also does not mean its not the most common. there's not only two government types, one being democracy, and not democracy.

Regardless, even if democracy is not the most common government, which I'm still pretty sure it is. Then I'll modify my statement to "one of the most common forms of human government".

Does that make you feel better?

[IUDEX99]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Every democratically elected or representative political figure is either portrayed as a self-serving, coward or power-hungry and corrupt(Udina). While Anderson, a universally agreed upon good guy and father figure of the story, is unable to continue in the rotten work of not fighting and securing the resources which humanity needs, resigns to go fight. The militaristic society of the Turians is illustrated as an ideal with its strict discipline, but broad individual freedoms. They even seem to be most successful at fighting the Reapers, not doubt as propaganda supporting Bioware's militarism. Yet, the cultured,effeminate Asari, drag their feet, until their homeworld falls and the Salarians, who avoid war as best they can, damn near refuse to assist you.Everyone who is forced to leave the battle, ie James, Victus and the (wo)man him/herself, Shepard, complain that they would rather be fighting, even though they would probably be vaporized at any moment, than do unmanly things like diplomacy and alliance crafting. Instead of getting someone useful, like a scientist, for the Prothean squadmate, Bioware instead decides to give you (Guess) a soldier, one who is the most shamelessly militaristic of the whole bunch.

All in all, Mass Effect is propaganda supporting the creation of military dictatorships throughout the Western world. Beware!

edit:

Don't know why my text never appears when I originally post it. Maybe Bioware attempting to silence me?

Well, it's a game and a story.
And in theese media you usually just see black and white and very few gray.

Besides, in ME3 you are in war.
If you are in war you'd rather put your faith in an ally like the Turians than politicians. When there is a war, democracy and politicians suffer under at least on big problem: time.
Of course, politicians and diplomats can solve the problem (the war), but it takes time. And being the one who lies under fire you usually don't have the time, you simply need to shoot back or you are being killed.

ME3 is a game and it's about heroes. Shep did solve unsolvable problems in all three parts of the series, he did fight superior forces again and again, he did not die where eveybody else would have been dead in a few seconds.

It's a game or - if you want to call it this way - a tale. And it deals with stereotypes.
The unbeatable soldier(s).
The power-hungry politican.
The incompetent diplomats.
The superior force that is close to kill everyone.
The race of warriors. - Fighting for all costs, switch off brain.
The race of cowards - "Science has always bee our best defense"
The race of diplomats - Feeling superior and dealing with themselves until it's to late
The race of militarists - Always had more manpower and the best strategy, but being screwed now.

It's simply a game and using stereotypes saves money and development costs. If you are using stereotypes everybody has an idea about the people and you don't need to spend time and money about ingame-explanations of the people and their motivations.
If you produce a movie (thriller) you can put a lot of work into showing the motivation, the development of one or two characters.
You won't be able to do that in a videogame in which you give people the choice to whom they are talking, which squadmates they are using etc. You cannot satisfy everybody because all the players have different preferences.
As a result you are using stereotypes and try to give theam as much personal development as possible.

Nothing against using stereotypes. It's a game, it's fun. It's the old "agsinst all odds"-story.
If you take it that way instead of doing interpreations or comparing the game with real life and as a result complaining about militarism or whatever you might have more fun.

Keep the discussions about militarism or fascism in the real world.
Or discuss it when it comes to games in which human rights are beeing trampled under food or militarism/fascism is glorified. ME3 definitly is not such a game.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers

Dex

[Catamantaloedis]

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Why are you so sure the Turians are the favoured race? It could be argued that in fact Bioware gave the games (specifically ME3) a far too human-centric feel.
The reason the Turians are lauded by the galactic community however is precisely because they can win wars and have proven to be the best peacekeeping force in the galaxy.
As I also previously mentioned the Turian Hierarchy is a MERITOCRACY.

Therefore while not elected in a traditional sense the figures in power have earned their place by earning the respect of their peers and higher ups and earned their position.

Arguably this makes them better suited to positions of power as only the best of the best get to the top. There would be no concerns of inexperience or "unfavourable" traits i.e. deceit, lying, etc as if that were they case they would never have gotten the job to begin with.

They are a meritocracy, but they are also militaristic, as a culture, and autocratic as a government. You're only making arguments in support of what I'm saying.

Of course the series has a human-centric feel, because Bioware is full of humans. But their depiction of the most common human form of government, representative democracy, is unsympathetically negative. 

How so?

Also name me one current nation this isn't militaristic? Last I checked every country has a military and spends a considerable amount of money maintaing it.

Their depiction of democracy isn't negative, when it comes to quick decisions democracies fall down. That it a fact, having many viewpoints is the biggest strength but also the biggest weakness of a democracy.

Like I said in times of urgency when quick decisions are required it is easy to see politicians as just being in the way.

There's a difference between having a military, and being militaristic. Germany before WWI + II was militaristic. Ancient Rome was militaristic. Switzerland is not militaristic.

Ok I see your point regarding militarism. But by that definition the Turians are not militaristic in that they do not instigate fights, rather they finish them. The Krogan would be a far better example of a militaristic society and are very reminiscent of immediate post WWI Germany due to their demilitarisation and harboured resentment towards the nations responsible for their defeat (Turians and Salarians in the case of the Krogan).

The Germans didn't start WWI either, but they were sure as hell ready to jump on the bandwagon because of their militarism, just like the turians were willing to fight the Krogan.. The Krogan are militaristic yes, but they are also undisciplined savages and brutes, unlike the turians. However, once they gain the discipline and purpose with Wrex and Eve (who certainly are not democratic with their clanlords), you can see them becoming a "favored race".

Modifié par Catamantaloedis, 08 mai 2012 - 09:20 .

[frylock23]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

If Bioware supports democracy, then explain why there are no sympathetic democratically, elected officials.

How about the guy in Liara's email who says "screw re-election, I'm going to do politically unpopular things to save as many of these civilians as I can"? I'd call that guy pretty sympathetic and heroic. Of course, it's pretty easy to do when you're pretty sure that there probably won't be re-elections afterward ...

[Catamantaloedis]

frylock23 wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

If Bioware supports democracy, then explain why there are no sympathetic democratically, elected officials.

How about the guy in Liara's email who says "screw re-election, I'm going to do politically unpopular things to save as many of these civilians as I can"? I'd call that guy pretty sympathetic and heroic. Of course, it's pretty easy to do when you're pretty sure that there probably won't be re-elections afterward ...

Because he couldn't do these good things within a democratic system, yes? Another example of a good man, like Anderson, retreating from the politics of representative democracy because it is an inadequte system, in Bioware's eyes.

[Deuterium_Dawn]

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...
Of course the series has a human-centric feel, because Bioware is full of humans. But their depiction of the most common human Western form of government, representative democracy, is unsympathetically negative. 
[/quote]

Fixed that for you.

[/quote]

"electoral democracies now represent 120 of the 192 existing countries "

Those aren't all Western governments.

http://en.wikipedia...._21st_centuries




[/quote]

[quote]At the same time liberal democracies i.e. countries Freedom House
regards as free and respectful of basic human rights and the rule of law
are 85 in number and represent 38 percent of the global population.[/quote]
Calling it a democracy and it actually being a democracy are two different things.


[/quote]

If you vote for someone, then it is a partly democratic government. It is irrelevant if their government is completely democratic or not.

Everything you posted is irrelevant anyway. This topic isn't about how many countries are democratic or not.

[/quote]

The Soviet Union had elections. They were not a democracy. They were certainly not the representative democracy you claim Bioware hates so much. And don't make assertions about human governments if you don't want people to respond.

[/quote]

Then they were partly democratic. Again, I'm not arguing points anymore that I aren't related to the topic. Just because democracy is not "necessarily" the majority on earth, also does not mean its not the most common. there's not only two government types, one being democracy, and not democracy.[/quote]

You do have an interesting definition of democracy.

[quote]
Regardless, even if democracy is not the most common government, which I'm still pretty sure it is. Then I'll modify my statement to "one of the most common forms of human government".

Does that make you feel better?

[/quote]

I feel just fine man.

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

[quote]frylock23 wrote...

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

If Bioware supports democracy, then explain why there are no sympathetic democratically, elected officials.[/quote]

How
about the guy in Liara's email who says "screw re-election, I'm going
to do politically unpopular things to save as many of these civilians as
I can"? I'd call that guy pretty sympathetic and heroic. Of course,
it's pretty easy to do when you're pretty sure that there probably won't
be re-elections afterward ...
[/quote]

Because he couldn't do
these good things within a democratic system, yes? Another example of a
good man, like Anderson, retreating from the politics of representative
democracy because it is an inadequte system, in Bioware's eyes.
[/quote]

Anderson retired because he hated politics, not because democracy was inherently evil. And yeah, look around you. Most politicians do what's popular, not what they personally believe to be right. They follow the polls because they're interested in their careers. It's a fact of democracies, and you could argue that since they are elected to represent their people and not themselves it's not an inherently bad thing.

Modifié par Deuterium_Dawn, 08 mai 2012 - 09:24 .

[Silhouett3]

OP, what's your take on the individualist, territorial, solitary attitude of Krogans and the pure-software, data sharing Geth, are they an example of ideal militaristic fascist society too?

[Catamantaloedis]

Silhouett3 wrote...

OP, what's your take on the individualist, territorial, solitary attitude of Krogans and the pure-software, data sharing Geth, are they an example of ideal militaristic fascist society too?

The Krogan are not territorial. They're expansionist. Always have been.
The Geth, are in a way, a form of direct democracy with their Consensus. But their government is important and they don't have politicians. They're robots.

Modifié par Catamantaloedis, 08 mai 2012 - 09:24 .

[xsdob]

You know were getting wrapped up in mass effect 3 in all this, but the original post was about bioware supporting military dictatorships.

So let's look at other bioware games and see if this supposed hypothesis is even remotely true.

[Catamantaloedis]

[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...
Of course the series has a human-centric feel, because Bioware is full of humans. But their depiction of the most common human Western form of government, representative democracy, is unsympathetically negative. 
[/quote]

Fixed that for you.

[/quote]

"electoral democracies now represent 120 of the 192 existing countries "

Those aren't all Western governments.

http://en.wikipedia...._21st_centuries




[/quote]

[quote]At the same time liberal democracies i.e. countries Freedom House
regards as free and respectful of basic human rights and the rule of law
are 85 in number and represent 38 percent of the global population.[/quote]
Calling it a democracy and it actually being a democracy are two different things.


[/quote]

If you vote for someone, then it is a partly democratic government. It is irrelevant if their government is completely democratic or not.

Everything you posted is irrelevant anyway. This topic isn't about how many countries are democratic or not.

[/quote]

The Soviet Union had elections. They were not a democracy. They were certainly not the representative democracy you claim Bioware hates so much. And don't make assertions about human governments if you don't want people to respond.

[/quote]

Then they were partly democratic. Again, I'm not arguing points anymore that I aren't related to the topic. Just because democracy is not "necessarily" the majority on earth, also does not mean its not the most common. there's not only two government types, one being democracy, and not democracy.[/quote]

You do have an interesting definition of democracy.

[quote]
Regardless, even if democracy is not the most common government, which I'm still pretty sure it is. Then I'll modify my statement to "one of the most common forms of human government".

Does that make you feel better?

[/quote]

I feel just fine man.

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

[quote]frylock23 wrote...

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

If Bioware supports democracy, then explain why there are no sympathetic democratically, elected officials.[/quote]

How
about the guy in Liara's email who says "screw re-election, I'm going
to do politically unpopular things to save as many of these civilians as
I can"? I'd call that guy pretty sympathetic and heroic. Of course,
it's pretty easy to do when you're pretty sure that there probably won't
be re-elections afterward ...
[/quote]

Because he couldn't do
these good things within a democratic system, yes? Another example of a
good man, like Anderson, retreating from the politics of representative
democracy because it is an inadequte system, in Bioware's eyes.
[/quote]

Anderson retired because he hated politics, not because democracy was inherently evil. And yeah, look around you. Most politicians do what's popular, not what they personally believe to be right. They follow the polls because they're interested in their careers. It's a fact of democracies, and you could argue that since they are elected to represent their people and not themselves it's not an inherently bad thing.

[/quote]

Did I say it was a bad thing? Nope. Never. But according to Bioware's portrayal, it is.

[sAxMoNkI]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Why are you so sure the Turians are the favoured race? It could be argued that in fact Bioware gave the games (specifically ME3) a far too human-centric feel.
The reason the Turians are lauded by the galactic community however is precisely because they can win wars and have proven to be the best peacekeeping force in the galaxy.
As I also previously mentioned the Turian Hierarchy is a MERITOCRACY.

Therefore while not elected in a traditional sense the figures in power have earned their place by earning the respect of their peers and higher ups and earned their position.

Arguably this makes them better suited to positions of power as only the best of the best get to the top. There would be no concerns of inexperience or "unfavourable" traits i.e. deceit, lying, etc as if that were they case they would never have gotten the job to begin with.

They are a meritocracy, but they are also militaristic, as a culture, and autocratic as a government. You're only making arguments in support of what I'm saying.

Of course the series has a human-centric feel, because Bioware is full of humans. But their depiction of the most common human form of government, representative democracy, is unsympathetically negative. 

How so?

Also name me one current nation this isn't militaristic? Last I checked every country has a military and spends a considerable amount of money maintaing it.

Their depiction of democracy isn't negative, when it comes to quick decisions democracies fall down. That it a fact, having many viewpoints is the biggest strength but also the biggest weakness of a democracy.

Like I said in times of urgency when quick decisions are required it is easy to see politicians as just being in the way.

There's a difference between having a military, and being militaristic. Germany before WWI + II was militaristic. Ancient Rome was militaristic. Switzerland is not militaristic.

Ok I see your point regarding militarism. But by that definition the Turians are not militaristic in that they do not instigate fights, rather they finish them. The Krogan would be a far better example of a militaristic society and are very reminiscent of immediate post WWI Germany due to their demilitarisation and harboured resentment towards the nations responsible for their defeat (Turians and Salarians in the case of the Krogan).

The Germans didn't start WWI either, but they were sure as hell ready to jump on the bandwagon because of their militarism. The Krogan are militaristic yes, but they are also undisciplined savages and brutes, unlike the turians. However, once they gain the discipline and purpose with Wrex and Eve (who certainly are not democratic with their clanlords), you can see them becoming a "favored race".

The krogans are a culture intrinsically linked to respecting strength and dominance as those are the traits that Tuchanka bred into them. Therefore they were never going to be democratic.

This is also why you can't expect every race to be a democracy, frankly it's inefficient from a "get things done quickly" perspective. The reason these races have the political systems they do is down to the hundreds of thousands of years of preceding development that lead them to that point.

Anyway i'm digressing. If Bioware had portrayed all of the alien races as democratic republics then you would argue that Bioware supports Liberal, Socialist Mob rule. Either way this is just sensationalism.

The leaders of races cannot show weakness to the other races and thus must appear at least to represent the whole of their people. Just because you are not shown the lower levels of government of each race does not mean they do not exist or that Bioware is peddling a fascist agenda.

[Catamantaloedis]

xsdob wrote...

You know were getting wrapped up in mass effect 3 in all this, but the original post was about bioware supporting military dictatorships.

So let's look at other bioware games and see if this supposed hypothesis is even remotely true.

Maybe I've got it wrong.

Maybe it's not Bioware, but EA.

[Deuterium_Dawn]

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...
Of course the series has a human-centric feel, because Bioware is full of humans. But their depiction of the most common human Western form of government, representative democracy, is unsympathetically negative. 
[/quote]

Fixed that for you.

[/quote]

"electoral democracies now represent 120 of the 192 existing countries "

Those aren't all Western governments.

http://en.wikipedia...._21st_centuries




[/quote]

[quote]At the same time liberal democracies i.e. countries Freedom House
regards as free and respectful of basic human rights and the rule of law
are 85 in number and represent 38 percent of the global population.[/quote]
Calling it a democracy and it actually being a democracy are two different things.


[/quote]

If you vote for someone, then it is a partly democratic government. It is irrelevant if their government is completely democratic or not.

Everything you posted is irrelevant anyway. This topic isn't about how many countries are democratic or not.

[/quote]

The Soviet Union had elections. They were not a democracy. They were certainly not the representative democracy you claim Bioware hates so much. And don't make assertions about human governments if you don't want people to respond.

[/quote]

Then they were partly democratic. Again, I'm not arguing points anymore that I aren't related to the topic. Just because democracy is not "necessarily" the majority on earth, also does not mean its not the most common. there's not only two government types, one being democracy, and not democracy.[/quote]

You do have an interesting definition of democracy.

[quote]
Regardless, even if democracy is not the most common government, which I'm still pretty sure it is. Then I'll modify my statement to "one of the most common forms of human government".

Does that make you feel better?

[/quote]

I feel just fine man.

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

[quote]frylock23 wrote...

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

If Bioware supports democracy, then explain why there are no sympathetic democratically, elected officials.[/quote]

How
about the guy in Liara's email who says "screw re-election, I'm going
to do politically unpopular things to save as many of these civilians as
I can"? I'd call that guy pretty sympathetic and heroic. Of course,
it's pretty easy to do when you're pretty sure that there probably won't
be re-elections afterward ...
[/quote]

Because he couldn't do
these good things within a democratic system, yes? Another example of a
good man, like Anderson, retreating from the politics of representative
democracy because it is an inadequte system, in Bioware's eyes.
[/quote]

Anderson retired because he hated politics, not because democracy was inherently evil. And yeah, look around you. Most politicians do what's popular, not what they personally believe to be right. They follow the polls because they're interested in their careers. It's a fact of democracies, and you could argue that since they are elected to represent their people and not themselves it's not an inherently bad thing.

[/quote]

Did I say it was a bad thing? Nope. Never. But according to Bioware's portrayal, it is.

[/quote]

Where do you get that? A guy saying "screw re-election, I'm going to do what ever has to be done regardless of how bad it may look on the evening news" is not a negative portrayal. And he's still working within a "democratic system" it's not as though he launched a coup so he could do what he wanted.

[GLR-0053]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

xsdob wrote...

You know were getting wrapped up in mass effect 3 in all this, but the original post was about bioware supporting military dictatorships.

So let's look at other bioware games and see if this supposed hypothesis is even remotely true.

Maybe I've got it wrong.

Maybe it's not Bioware, but EA.

EA is business and like all businesses they're primary goal is to make a profit.

[antares_sublight]

OMG guys guys! Look at the ME3 forum background, notice anything??? The Western world is being destroyed while the rest is not! OMG OP is right.

[Catamantaloedis]

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

sAxMoNkI wrote...

Why are you so sure the Turians are the favoured race? It could be argued that in fact Bioware gave the games (specifically ME3) a far too human-centric feel.
The reason the Turians are lauded by the galactic community however is precisely because they can win wars and have proven to be the best peacekeeping force in the galaxy.
As I also previously mentioned the Turian Hierarchy is a MERITOCRACY.

Therefore while not elected in a traditional sense the figures in power have earned their place by earning the respect of their peers and higher ups and earned their position.

Arguably this makes them better suited to positions of power as only the best of the best get to the top. There would be no concerns of inexperience or "unfavourable" traits i.e. deceit, lying, etc as if that were they case they would never have gotten the job to begin with.

They are a meritocracy, but they are also militaristic, as a culture, and autocratic as a government. You're only making arguments in support of what I'm saying.

Of course the series has a human-centric feel, because Bioware is full of humans. But their depiction of the most common human form of government, representative democracy, is unsympathetically negative. 

How so?

Also name me one current nation this isn't militaristic? Last I checked every country has a military and spends a considerable amount of money maintaing it.

Their depiction of democracy isn't negative, when it comes to quick decisions democracies fall down. That it a fact, having many viewpoints is the biggest strength but also the biggest weakness of a democracy.

Like I said in times of urgency when quick decisions are required it is easy to see politicians as just being in the way.

There's a difference between having a military, and being militaristic. Germany before WWI + II was militaristic. Ancient Rome was militaristic. Switzerland is not militaristic.

Ok I see your point regarding militarism. But by that definition the Turians are not militaristic in that they do not instigate fights, rather they finish them. The Krogan would be a far better example of a militaristic society and are very reminiscent of immediate post WWI Germany due to their demilitarisation and harboured resentment towards the nations responsible for their defeat (Turians and Salarians in the case of the Krogan).

The Germans didn't start WWI either, but they were sure as hell ready to jump on the bandwagon because of their militarism. The Krogan are militaristic yes, but they are also undisciplined savages and brutes, unlike the turians. However, once they gain the discipline and purpose with Wrex and Eve (who certainly are not democratic with their clanlords), you can see them becoming a "favored race".

The krogans are a culture intrinsically linked to respecting strength and dominance as those are the traits that Tuchanka bred into them. Therefore they were never going to be democratic.

This is also why you can't expect every race to be a democracy, frankly it's inefficient from a "get things done quickly" perspective. The reason these races have the political systems they do is down to the hundreds of thousands of years of preceding development that lead them to that point.

Anyway i'm digressing. If Bioware had portrayed all of the alien races as democratic republics then you would argue that Bioware supports Liberal, Socialist Mob rule. Either way this is just sensationalism.

The leaders of races cannot show weakness to the other races and thus must appear at least to represent the whole of their people. Just because you are not shown the lower levels of government of each race does not mean they do not exist or that Bioware is peddling a fascist agenda.

I didn't say that Bioware should have made every species, democratic. I'm saying that the democratic governments, and politicians in these governments are portrayed in an overtly negative way. More so than any of the other forms of government.

[shepdog77]

Alex Jones meets Mass Effect. I have officially seen it all...

[Chaoswind]

This again?

[incinerator950]

xsdob wrote...

You know were getting wrapped up in mass effect 3 in all this, but the original post was about bioware supporting military dictatorships.

So let's look at other bioware games and see if this supposed hypothesis is even remotely true.

A republic Versus an Autocracy, an Empire versus...whatever. 

A Monarchy including Dictatorship to fight an encroaching mass Enemy. 

A Galactic Council that imposes order and control over lesser species.

Porque?

[sAxMoNkI]

antares_sublight wrote...

OMG guys guys! Look at the ME3 forum background, notice anything??? The Western world is being destroyed while the rest is not! OMG OP is right.

So Italy isn't in the western world?

/sarcasm

[jakal66]

OU MAI GOD...THIS THREAD...IT HURTS!!!

[antares_sublight]

sAxMoNkI wrote...
So Italy isn't in the western world?

/sarcasm

Note the reapers descending on Italy. Because of Musolinni, BioWare gave them extra time.

[Catamantaloedis]

[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...
Of course the series has a human-centric feel, because Bioware is full of humans. But their depiction of the most common human Western form of government, representative democracy, is unsympathetically negative. 
[/quote]

Fixed that for you.

[/quote]

"electoral democracies now represent 120 of the 192 existing countries "

Those aren't all Western governments.

http://en.wikipedia...._21st_centuries




[/quote]

[quote]At the same time liberal democracies i.e. countries Freedom House
regards as free and respectful of basic human rights and the rule of law
are 85 in number and represent 38 percent of the global population.[/quote]
Calling it a democracy and it actually being a democracy are two different things.


[/quote]

If you vote for someone, then it is a partly democratic government. It is irrelevant if their government is completely democratic or not.

Everything you posted is irrelevant anyway. This topic isn't about how many countries are democratic or not.

[/quote]

The Soviet Union had elections. They were not a democracy. They were certainly not the representative democracy you claim Bioware hates so much. And don't make assertions about human governments if you don't want people to respond.

[/quote]

Then they were partly democratic. Again, I'm not arguing points anymore that I aren't related to the topic. Just because democracy is not "necessarily" the majority on earth, also does not mean its not the most common. there's not only two government types, one being democracy, and not democracy.[/quote]

You do have an interesting definition of democracy.

[quote]
Regardless, even if democracy is not the most common government, which I'm still pretty sure it is. Then I'll modify my statement to "one of the most common forms of human government".

Does that make you feel better?

[/quote]

I feel just fine man.

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

[quote]frylock23 wrote...

[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...

If Bioware supports democracy, then explain why there are no sympathetic democratically, elected officials.[/quote]

How
about the guy in Liara's email who says "screw re-election, I'm going
to do politically unpopular things to save as many of these civilians as
I can"? I'd call that guy pretty sympathetic and heroic. Of course,
it's pretty easy to do when you're pretty sure that there probably won't
be re-elections afterward ...
[/quote]

Because he couldn't do
these good things within a democratic system, yes? Another example of a
good man, like Anderson, retreating from the politics of representative
democracy because it is an inadequte system, in Bioware's eyes.
[/quote]

Anderson retired because he hated politics, not because democracy was inherently evil. And yeah, look around you. Most politicians do what's popular, not what they personally believe to be right. They follow the polls because they're interested in their careers. It's a fact of democracies, and you could argue that since they are elected to represent their people and not themselves it's not an inherently bad thing.

[/quote]

Did I say it was a bad thing? Nope. Never. But according to Bioware's portrayal, it is.

[/quote]

Where do you get that? A guy saying "screw re-election, I'm going to do what ever has to be done regardless of how bad it may look on the evening news" is not a negative portrayal. And he's still working within a "democratic system" it's not as though he launched a coup so he could do what he wanted.

[/quote]

He actually had to leave essentially give up any hope in retaining democractic post to do what was morally correct. In the turian Hierarchy, the guy would've just done what he needed to do.

[xsdob]

What about the fact that bioware has you able to pick the republic or the sith in swtor?

If they promoted dictatorships they'd only allow you to pick the sith, since they oppose democratic republics, and you'd wouldn't be allowed to pick the bounty hunter class since they don't directly support the empires military.

It makes about as much sense as anything else in this thread.

Modifié par xsdob, 08 mai 2012 - 09:35 .

[sAxMoNkI]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

sAxMoNkI wrote...

The krogans are a culture intrinsically linked to respecting strength and dominance as those are the traits that Tuchanka bred into them. Therefore they were never going to be democratic.

This is also why you can't expect every race to be a democracy, frankly it's inefficient from a "get things done quickly" perspective. The reason these races have the political systems they do is down to the hundreds of thousands of years of preceding development that lead them to that point.

Anyway i'm digressing. If Bioware had portrayed all of the alien races as democratic republics then you would argue that Bioware supports Liberal, Socialist Mob rule. Either way this is just sensationalism.

The leaders of races cannot show weakness to the other races and thus must appear at least to represent the whole of their people. Just because you are not shown the lower levels of government of each race does not mean they do not exist or that Bioware is peddling a fascist agenda.

I didn't say that Bioware should have made every species, democratic. I'm saying that the democratic governments, and politicians in these governments are portrayed in an overtly negative way. More so than any of the other forms of government.

You can't seriously be telling me you think the Krogan were portrayed in a good light? What of the batarians? Their hegemony was REPEATEDLY criticised in game.