[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...
[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...
[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...
[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...
[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote..
He actually had to leave essentially give up any hope in retaining democractic post to do what was morally correct. In the turian Hierarchy, the guy would've just done what he needed to do.
[/quote]
As long as it fell within the accepted tactics of the hierarchy. Remember, Primarch Victus was essentially at a dead-end with little hope of promotion until the Reapers killed everyone above him because he'd made himself unpopular with his unconventional tactics. And quite frankly that's the reality of democracies. People who don't have to answer to the general public have greater freedom of action, with which they can do good or ill. Human nature being what it is, even the best intentioned people will abuse unchecked power. And the guy didn't "abandon his post" he simply stopped caring what the polls and the news thought of him. In the aftermath of a victory over the Reapers this would probably actually make him more popular.
[/quote]
Cool story.
[/quote]
So rather than argue my point you resort to an overused meme that was terrible to begin with.
[quote]
Based on the game, though, it's much easier to tell which system Bioware prefers.
[/quote]
Based on your heavily biased and unproven assertions.
[/quote]
You are not arguing against my points. The turian government where people earn their right to power, and use it in an autocrat's capacity, is never portrayed negaitvely. Unlike the representative governments, whose elected leaders all turn out to be cowards, liars, treacherous, or simply incompetent.
How is this not obvious?
[/quote]
We're never actually shown the Alliance's leaders. Udina is essentially a glorified ambassador from the alliance. And in the very post you quoted, I address the "do whatever he needed to do" assertion, in that essentially the Turian Hierarchy is very rigid and unconventional tactics are frowned upon. The Turian Councilor AKA Mr. Airquotes, is certainly not portrayed positively nor is he demorcratically elected. I also touched on the reality of democracies. Bioware isn't slamming them to say that doing unpopular things may cost you your career. That's just the way it is.
It's not obvious because you're exaggerating and misrepresenting your examples and ignoring those that don't suit you.
[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...
[quote]Wulfram wrote...
I
do think that Mass Effect does have an underlying, and likely
accidental, theme of support for military dictatorships. Not so bad in
ME1 as the sequels.[/quote]
That's all I'm saying. Even if they
didn't mean for it to be there, there is not a single respectable
politician from a democratic government. People constantly express their
hatred for political figures. Anderson quits politics because its too
dirty for them. All the politicians refuse to challenge the Reaper
threat, even when its on their doorstep. The most familiar elected
official sides with a terrorist organization for his own benefit.
[/quote]
How many do we really meet? Our only interaction with the government of any
race until the third game is through the Council, whose job is
essentially to enforce the status quo and maintain the Asari-dominated
balance of power. The Dalatrass is unelected and only helps Shepard when
faced with the prospect of being left to fight the Reaper alone even if
you later have the option to agree with her. The Primarch is an
unpopular general who agrees to help only when you help him, after the
Turians and everyone else left humanity to fend for themselves
initially. We never meet the Asari government and our only potentially
positive interaction with the Krogan government is if Wrex and Bakura
are alive. Wreave is a moron. And again Anderson didn't quit because
politics were dirty or corrupt. He quit because he was a soldier and
wasn't suited for it. Diplomacy requires an entirely different skillset.
It's a stretch to call Udina the most familiar, the Cerberus coup arc
wasn't all that great in general(and it wasn't for Udina's personal, but
Earth's perceived benefit) and I'd wager they placed Udina in that spot
because he was very unpopular and most people loved the chance to kill
him.
And most people probably don't like at least portions of
their government. The behavior of the council and udina fits the
popular perception of politicians. It doesn't reflect some kind of
pro-totalitarian agenda of a game company based in a liberal western
democracy.
Since you might have missed my late edit I've reposted it here.
[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...
[quote]sAxMoNkI wrote...
[quote]Catamantaloedis wrote...
[quote]sAxMoNkI wrote...
Because if a primarch was incompetent or a coward or a liar he would
A) have not gotten the position to begin with
or
would swiftly be replaced
Replacing
leaders is inherently more difficult in a democracy short of a public
revolt or majority vote of no confidence. Also there are no inbuilt
safeguards in the democratic system against the qualities you mentioned.
By its nature the turian meritocracy ensures that only those of sufficient integrity ascend to the higher levels of government.
[/quote]
Which accoring to Bioware's portrayal, makes it a superior government.
[/quote]
Who
are you to say it isn't? Seems a lot harder to abuse power in the
Turian system, harder to get someone who would abuse power into power in
the first place and if they did abuse power it would be very easy to
remove and replace them.
[/quote]
So then you are in agreement
that Bioware places the Turian government in a more favorable light
simply by making it an apparently worthy alternative to representative
government?
[/quote]
It's actually incredibly easy to abuse power in the Turian system since those in power are not responsible to anyone except their superiors. It's rife with opportunites for nepotism and corruption. In most cases this is kept in check by the Turian sense of civic duty, but it's not foolproof, such as the case of Victus' son being promoted by his father before he was ready.
Modifié par Deuterium_Dawn, 08 mai 2012 - 10:24 .
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