14 réponses à ce sujet

[MatronAdena]

I can't recall exactly where I heard it ( or read it) but it was stated they were looking into " something" like a tool set for console users.  I was debating this with my spouse the other night, and have a few ideas on how something like this could pan out. Feel free to add your own ideas too...you never know somone might have a eureka moment that Bioware could use.

First off I think not only would it be nice to make things, or mod things for console use as we see with the PC users, but I think it could really open the door for the indusrty as a whole " and I point to other games using user made content "

My first idea is something like this, and mind you the closest I come to a game developer is animation, writing, and market research so....

1) Release a Tool set  for consoles.
A) distribute through XBL/PSN- free, or even a small fee
optionally release a toolset through the PC, which then uploads onto DA servers.

2) use of the toolsets in their forms.

A) Making a toolset for the consoles, ment to be used ON the consoles would be a fast and pretty easy option, giving the user basic abilities...down side is making it easy to use with a controller. This could  cut back on what can be done, or make it more time consuming.

I'm fond of. Release a DLC that includes a " community made " button in the DLC lists of the menu.
From there it works " similar" to how we see things in say...guitar hero or something. By that I mean a list of available Mods/updates done by the community. These mods can be turned on, or off in the options menu.
    The tool set itself is released onto the PC, requiering a valid regestration of the game. This would open the ability for many of the same mods as you see on the PC.  The game disk I'm sure will need to be read to pull information off the disk, this can perhaps be done with a plugin built into the toolset that allows the PC to read said consoles disk. ( unless the tool set has all the pieces of files one may need in it. )
    The items created are then saved, and converted into files the consoles can read, and then uploaded onto the DA:O network. Once the network updates, console users need simply to go into the DLC menu on their consol as stated above and see whats new.

Those are atleast my ideas...I know it would be tough, but I know these guys can do it. I just got excited hearing they are looking into something similar for consoles.

[Mummolus]

I remember this discussion coming up on the Bethesda forums right after they started releasing DLC for Oblivion. The answer from the devs there was always related to licensing - a community member could use the toolset to create something based on someone else's IP, and since mods are all technically still the property of the creators of the original game, that would have made Bethesda liable for the actions of some random modding team with likely nothing but the best intentions. I'd assume something similar prevents Bioware from allowing community-created mods on the Xbox, as well, but given things like the song creator in Guitar Hero World Tour (which can be used to accurately recreate licensed material) I'm not positive.

[Taleroth]

The toolset is basically the professional toolset they used to create the game. That said, the one they use for the console game actually runs on a PC, it works in conjunction exclusively with a developer kit. Not viable to release this to the public.



XBL/PSN are not going to allow distribution via their methods of any significant amount of content without wanting to charge for it. This largely kills things, too. Even by charging, they have to find a way to contact and negotiate contracts with these mod authors. And then they cannot verify that they're only using original work.

[Mummolus]

XBL/PSN are not going to allow distribution via their methods of any significant amount of content without wanting to charge for it.

Guitar Hero World Tour has a song creator which allows uploading to their servers, and there are thousands upon thousands of songs available on it already, everything from people just screwing around to actual artists who want people to hear their music. All distributed for free.

Even by charging, they have to find a way to contact and negotiate contracts with these mod authors.

This is probably not correct - most toolsets released have a EULA which stipulates that content created using it is legally the property of the game creator, not the content creator. I haven't seen the Dragon Age toolset EULA but I'd put money on there being a similar clause therein.

And then they cannot verify that they're only using original work.

This is most likely the real issue - particularly when combined with the fine print it can lead to some nasty legal complications.

Modifié par Mummolus, 08 décembre 2009 - 10:54 .

[MatronAdena]

awh yes, damn legality. I'm sure I'd be content with whatever they come up with. Bringing up guitar hero's song creator is a good point...There are tons of " covers" in there made by the community. I believe that's why they wont allow the maker to load actual vocal tracks to it to avoid legal issues.

I'm sure there still is a viable option on the legal end, at least to some extent or I doubt devs would have even bothered mentioning the idea. Be it a generic tool set that can just " put together" whats already there, or open up the ability to actually mod " if even to a smaller amount ( Like say texture changes, but no mesh changes) I'd be happy one way or the other, I see the trend to make things more open to the player slowly building up steam on console versions of titles, and think at least major developers like BW/EA, Activision, and a few others could really spearhead the concept and make some major changes to the industry ( and give them a competitive edge for a time marketing wise)

[Taleroth]

Mummolus wrote...

XBL/PSN are not going to allow distribution via their methods of any significant amount of content without wanting to charge for it.

Guitar Hero World Tour has a song creator which allows uploading to their servers, and there are thousands upon thousands of songs available on it already, everything from people just screwing around to actual artists who want people to hear their music. All distributed for free.

I can give you this.

Even by charging, they have to find a way to contact and negotiate contracts with these mod authors.

This is probably not correct - most toolsets released have a EULA which stipulates that content created using it is legally the property of the game creator, not the content creator. I haven't seen the Dragon Age toolset EULA but I'd put money on there being a similar clause therein.

But not this.  There are things an EULA cannot deprive you of, regardless of its terms.  I'm fairly certain that nobody has ever claimed this right from an EULA in court succesfully.

It's more their way of trying to prevent others from profiting off their work than them trying to claim the right to profit off other people's.

[MatronAdena]

I'm sure there can be a fairly simple route to take on the legal end really, as is I don't see how the legality would be much different from the PC version of the tools to a console version of them. ( more so if the said tools are actually on a pc, and uploaded to the specific console network from there)
Im sure microsoft and sony would want a cut though by making the DLC/update to access the uploaded items cost something. 

Modifié par MatronAdena, 08 décembre 2009 - 11:14 .

[Mummolus]

But not this. There are things an EULA cannot deprive you of, regardless of its terms. I'm fairly certain that nobody has ever claimed this right from an EULA in court succesfully.

I can assure you it's a common clause. Whether it's been claimed successfully or not is entirely irrelevant - lawsuits take up time and resources which by definition takes time and resources away from other things. Getting sued is more than just an inconvenience, even if you win.

It's more their way of trying to prevent others from profiting off their work than them trying to claim the right to profit off other people's.

It also prevents others from using company property for their own profit. How would you feel if a modding team released a major new DA expansion for money, and then Bioware released an official one which conflicted with it? The developer would get most of the blame from the community - it's bad PR and can be avoided.

[Darth_Trethon]

I'm all for getting the toolset on a console since on consoles you KNOW it will run with a hundred times less bugs and problems but I was under the impression that Sony and Microsoft were the ones banning this kind of software from the consoles. Nonetheless customization and gamer created content is increasing on consoles and a lot of people buy games that allow gamers the freedom to create things.....though full fledged toolsets are still kept out. BioWare did say that they will try to bring a few of the very best mods to consoles so it seems that sooner or later we may well get the toolset itself.....maybe for the next DA game if not for DAO.

[Taleroth]

Mummolus wrote...

It's more their way of trying to prevent others from profiting off their work than them trying to claim the right to profit off other people's.

It also prevents others from using company property for their own profit. How would you feel if a modding team released a major new DA expansion for money, .

It's more their way of trying to prevent others from profiting off their work

Maybe my pronouns weren't clear.  It's more Bioware's way of trying to prevent not-Bioware from profiting off Bioware's work.

[MatronAdena]

They said to watch for things over the next 2 years, so that gives plenty of time... If they do go the route of just bringing over the best community mods, I would hope they take the players wants just as much as their own ( I don't see why they wouldn't) Im not shocked MS, or sony would be the big bad wall making it tougher, but again, Im sure if they were allowed to charge for the DLC Patch to allow the downloading of user content, they may be more giving...and to be honest I would not mind doing so. Eventually I see it being just as free and diverse as PC has, but it may take years, gotta start someplace right?

so any other ideas atleast on how it could be done? I know my ideas are one of many options, and most likely riddled with holes"

Modifié par MatronAdena, 08 décembre 2009 - 11:38 .

[MatronAdena]

also, if anyone remembers where it was hinted they were looking into a tool set-ish add on for consoles that would be great, I don't remember if it was a video or an article, and have not had much luck finding it.

[Darth_Trethon]

MatronAdena wrote...

also, if anyone remembers where it was hinted they were looking into a tool set-ish add on for consoles that would be great, I don't remember if it was a video or an article, and have not had much luck finding it.

No I don't recall ever hearing or reading that....all I remember is the part about bringing a few of the very best player created mods to consoles....these mods would inevitably be created with the toolset so maybe that's what you read?

[AntiChri5]

I'm a console user but would like nothing more than to create somehing to share wih everyone here, getting it through microsoft / sony would be the biggest problem - either they profit for someone elses work, someone else profits from biowares, or people get free content

[MatronAdena]

could have been, could have been the other too...I " think" it came off an interview at some point saying " something similar too the tool set" but I could have just as easily misheard.