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[Cant Planet]

From this point on, there's pretty much no point in discussing ending theory with anyone who hasn't watched this.

(Also, my belief is strengthened that the dream sequence would have been utterly fantastic as a penultimate act before a final battle, and that the core failure of the game's story is the omission of an actual ending.)

Modifié par Cant Planet, 10 mai 2012 - 09:39 .

[XXIceColdXX]

Cant Planet wrote...

From this point on, there's pretty much no point in discussing ending theory with anyone who hasn't watched this.

(Also, my belief is strengthened that the dream sequence would have been utterly fantastic as a penultimate act before a final battle, and that the core failure of the game's story is the omission of an actual ending.)

Agree.

[Theodoro]

This is a very thorough documentary, I enjoyed it a lot. Nearly all points were covered and this is what we really needed: all of this proof in one place. I liked the fact that it was chronological, really makes you 'speculate' along with the video.

Thanks for spending the time and effort to do this!

[elegolas1]

very enjoyable and convincing
it does make me hopeful for the dlc
and it's interesting that priestly would pm you. that's not typical for fanfiction is it?

[mcgreggers99]

Wow 30,000 views in under 48 hours. That's pretty impressive.

[mcgreggers99]

Also mentioned here:

http://www.complex.c...s-fan-reactions

[byarru]

A very interesting video...
I don't agree with everything but I like it
Though to be honest, one thing just bug me about the theory
It's again the lack of choice. Or, even worse: bad choice, good choice. Not ME style

[MrFob]

byarru wrote...

A very interesting video...
I don't agree with everything but I like it
Though to be honest, one thing just bug me about the theory
It's again the lack of choice. Or, even worse: bad choice, good choice. Not ME style

Yep, that is one weird part of it. It brings me to the one thing this video is actually missing IMO and that is counter indications. It would be nice to dicuss those as well. However, I guess it's pretty long as it is already.

[Tim Skijwalker]

 I watched the whole thing, of course I didn't agree with everything completely but you summed it up pretty nicely.
(with some mistakes here and there, some things you could have found in  the final hours app)

good job anyways, lets hope that the indoctrination theory is corrent

thanks a lot ;D

[JabberJim]

Great Video

The Infinite Ammo theory is really the one thing I dismiss. The husk and Marauder Shield attack is very similar in nature to the Dr. Eva scene on Mars and once in the so called Citadel, there is nothing to shoot anyway. Other than that, some really great arguments can be made for IT.

If anything, the IT is giving me hope that the ending is nothing but an epic plan by Bioware and we will have an amazing DLC that will properly end the series.

If in fact the theory is false and Bioware truly got completely lazy and ridiculous with the ending. They need to consider hiring the people that were genius enough to come up with IT. Because ultimately they have better vision and ingenuity that the writers that wrote it.

[byarru]

Actually, I mean bad(blue, green) and good (red) choices of IT. The belief that only red ending is right ending. It's not ME style. There are paragon, neutral and renegade options, right. But no good/bad endings
Even if IT is true I hope all three choices have different outcomes. That the red one isn't the only "good"
E.g Have you chosen Red one? Yes, Shepard wakes up and his friends help Shepard to destroy the Reapers. Many people die but the Reapers are destroyed. Green ending: Shepad is indoctrinated and the Reapers are trying to turn her into Husk but she is saved by her team. She's partly husk but can control herself. They use the Crucible, Reapers are destroyed with less deaths of our people. The blue ending: Shepard becomes an avatar, brain, mind of a new Reaper. But before the procces of building it is complited the team destroyed some machines and though Shepard is a Reaper, she can control herself. She uses her new abilities to send some kind of virus (with the Crusible's help of course) and the Reapers become so vulnerable that they're almost instantly destroyed. But it's kind of an end for Shepard. On the other hand, the galaxy easily wins the war after this moment
So... sometihng like this...
And yes, I dislike this video for all this "Synthetics don't have souls let's kill them to save ourselves like some cowards!". It's just... impossibly stupid. Say whatever you want, but Legion does have a soul. His role in the game is pretty classic, you know...

[Humakt83]

byarru wrote...

A very interesting video...
I don't agree with everything but I like it
Though to be honest, one thing just bug me about the theory
It's again the lack of choice. Or, even worse: bad choice, good choice. Not ME style

Why there needs to be any choice at the end anyway? It ahould offer closure to the meaningful choices throughout the series not offer more.

Anyway, I would still like to have the ability to play as a squadmate or as a indoctrinated Shepard when taking "wrong" choice.

[gendocrono]

Amazing job Ownaholic, really, bravo.

I have seen many videos about IT since mouths but this one is certainly one of the best compilation.

I'have hardly belived that IT was planned by Bioware, because with all its possible incoherences, this theory would give a real and fabulous meaning to the ending. The story has many "plot holes" but everything could have finished with an eventful twist.

But then......Bioware says that IT was not planned.

Seriously, what a pathetic wastefullness.....

Modifié par gendocrono, 10 mai 2012 - 02:41 .

[Theodoro]

Humakt83 wrote...

byarru wrote...

A very interesting video...
I don't agree with everything but I like it
Though to be honest, one thing just bug me about the theory
It's again the lack of choice. Or, even worse: bad choice, good choice. Not ME style

Why there needs to be any choice at the end anyway? It ahould offer closure to the meaningful choices throughout the series not offer more.

Anyway, I would still like to have the ability to play as a squadmate or as a indoctrinated Shepard when taking "wrong" choice.

Right on. Even though I'd take an ending with a choice (which could probably involve a sacrifice decision similar to the one on Virmire) over an ending without one, the finale of ME3 doesn't necessarily need one. What it should reflect is the choices that the player has done in prior games and who's with him/her at the end of the game during the battle on Earth.

As to what happens after the Indoctrination Theory, well, that's up to BioWare. Ideally, the real fight with the Reapers is just beginning, Cerberus and the Illusive Man ought not to be neglected, either.

[llbountyhunter]

byarru wrote...

Actually, I mean bad(blue, green) and good (red) choices of IT. The belief that only red ending is right ending. It's not ME style. There are paragon, neutral and renegade options, right. But no good/bad endings
Even if IT is true I hope all three choices have different outcomes. That the red one isn't the only "good"
E.g Have you chosen Red one? Yes, Shepard wakes up and his friends help Shepard to destroy the Reapers. Many people die but the Reapers are destroyed. Green ending: Shepad is indoctrinated and the Reapers are trying to turn her into Husk but she is saved by her team. She's partly husk but can control herself. They use the Crucible, Reapers are destroyed with less deaths of our people. The blue ending: Shepard becomes an avatar, brain, mind of a new Reaper. But before the procces of building it is complited the team destroyed some machines and though Shepard is a Reaper, she can control herself. She uses her new abilities to send some kind of virus (with the Crusible's help of course) and the Reapers become so vulnerable that they're almost instantly destroyed. But it's kind of an end for Shepard. On the other hand, the galaxy easily wins the war after this moment
So... sometihng like this...
And yes, I dislike this video for all this "Synthetics don't have souls let's kill them to save ourselves like some cowards!". It's just... impossibly stupid. Say whatever you want, but Legion does have a soul. His role in the game is pretty classic, you know...

I dunno, I kinda perfer the "only red means you win" thing. I mean, were talking about the reapers here! defeating them should be hard! I dont want it to be something like "oh, well you failed to see all the clues, but it doesnt matter- no, matter what ending you choose you always win!!!!!!!!"


I agree with your second point though. poor legion 

[Cannonarm758]

I really enjoyed the video and it really seems hard to dispute the fact, assuming Bioware would knowingly release an partial game.

And in regards to those who don't like IT because you lose your choices, just because the dream sequence has you choose red to continue doesn't mean there won't be other choices possibly later on.  I compare it to FFX-III 2 where you can choose to stay in the dream or continue on.  If you stay, game ends with a specific cutscene.  If you don't, there is more game to play and you get the real (although that could be argued with this game too) ending.

My only caveat is the part about synthetics and no souls.  I felt more connected to Legion's struggles than half of the organics I met in the game.

Modifié par Cannonarm758, 10 mai 2012 - 02:49 .

[byarru]

I dunno, I kinda perfer the "only red means you win" thing. I mean, were talking about the reapers here! defeating them should be hard! I dont want it to be something like "oh, well you failed to see all the clues, but it doesnt matter- no, matter what ending you choose you always win!!!!!!!!

Well, that's the problem. It's not ME style
Do you remember ME1 and ME2 endings? We could save the council, let them die, make Udina councilor or Anderson. None of those choices was right or wrong. They led to different outcomes.
ME2. We could choose to give TIM the base or give him a finger. But none of two choices was completely wrong or right. Yes, we know now that TIM betrayed us but... at that point we couldn't be sure. We could act Renegade and try to use the technologies (I really couldn't understand WHY it was a renegade ending though XD) or we could destroy the base. Yes, it was heroic but maybe those technologies would save people's lives...
Yes. Now we know that they wouldn't. But at that point we couldn't be sure
And this... The RIGHT ending and two WRONG endings. It's too simple. It must be more complicated than that. Yes. The choise must be hard but if the red ending is good and stuff and nobody dies expect the Reapers... how can it be morally difficult?

[llbountyhunter]

byarru wrote...

I dunno, I kinda perfer the "only red means you win" thing. I mean, were talking about the reapers here! defeating them should be hard! I dont want it to be something like "oh, well you failed to see all the clues, but it doesnt matter- no, matter what ending you choose you always win!!!!!!!!

Well, that's the problem. It's not ME style
Do you remember ME1 and ME2 endings? We could save the council, let them die, make Udina councilor or Anderson. None of those choices was right or wrong. They led to different outcomes.
ME2. We could choose to give TIM the base or give him a finger. But none of two choices was completely wrong or right. Yes, we know now that TIM betrayed us but... at that point we couldn't be sure. We could act Renegade and try to use the technologies (I really couldn't understand WHY it was a renegade ending though XD) or we could destroy the base. Yes, it was heroic but maybe those technologies would save people's lives...
Yes. Now we know that they wouldn't. But at that point we couldn't be sure
And this... The RIGHT ending and two WRONG endings. It's too simple. It must be more complicated than that. Yes. The choise must be hard but if the red ending is good and stuff and nobody dies expect the Reapers... how can it be morally difficult?

technically there isnt a "right" or "wrong" . its a control or destroy. maybe if you choose control you switch to the reapers side and "win" for them. 

i would hate it though, if you choose "control" and still end up destroying the reapers; thats not what you chose, and is NOT me's style.

[byarru]

And the synthesis. Yes, I like the synthesis ending. I just wish Shepard didn't die... Giant plot holes, space magic but... nobody dies... expect Shepard...
Well. If Control - side with the Reapers - and the red one - Destroy them then blue and green are bad while red is good
So really, not ME style

[llbountyhunter]

byarru wrote...

And the synthesis. Yes, I like the synthesis ending. I just wish Shepard didn't die... Giant plot holes, space magic but... nobody dies... expect Shepard...
Well. If Control - side with the Reapers - and the red one - Destroy them then blue and green are bad while red is good
So really, not ME style

actually ME is a "good" or "bad"  thing, (just not right or wrong) . thats the point of paragon/regenade

save or kill morin? goodvsbad
kill or save council in me1? goodvsbad
kill or save wrex? goodvsbad

however neither of these choices have a "wrong" option- just a more ruthless one.

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 10 mai 2012 - 03:18 .

[byarru]

There are Renegade and Paragon options. Not good or bad, right or wrong
Udins is a jerk but he's more capable politics than Anderson
The Council is not trustworthy but if we let them die, humans will try to grab all power we can
Wrex? Well, it is good vs bad BUT at that point we didn't know if it'd be a godo choice. Some people didn't believe him. Some didn't care

[Jacobss]

My opinion of the documentary:

I'm sceptical about IT. The first 40-50 minutes of the documentary didn't convice me, because they rely on not important details like armors (I laughed when he compared the piles of bodies to Ashley and Kaidan armors from ME1), textures and Shepard changing place after "awakening". Even Shepard's burned armor is insignificant, because BioWare was lazy and they didn't bother to make others versions of it. Most of the arguments were just normal in video games - textures are always reused so it's normal. It doesn't support the theory. They also didn't bother to "awake" Shepard at the same place, where Harbinger shoot him, because they didn't care. Who cares really about something like that in first playthrough? The impossibility to shoot the Keeper also doesn't support the theory, because earlier in Mass Effect wo also couldn't kill someone, if we weren't in "fight mode", so that doesn't convince me.

For me it's all NITPICKING.

HOWEVER!

It started to become interest when we got to the Star Child. Here I started to see real arguments and not nitpicking on some reused textures or something like that.

1. It is stated in the codex that Indoctrination leads you to start trusting your enemy.  Do you think you would realize when you start to become indoctrinated? No. Saren didn't and neither are you. During the whole trilogy we know that we can never  trust the Reapers.  All who trusted, ended being killed, used, turned into the husk etc.  And here comes the Catalyst, who says you that he present's you three options, from which two are the bests. Ironically, those two options lead you to become one with the Reapers. We've heard that before from indoctrinated slaves. Shepard felt guilty about the boy - guilty because he couldn't rescue him and other people on earth. That's why the Reapers choose this body to convince Shepard. To trust them. To conclude, never trust anyone who has done bad things. Even if he said to you that everything he's doing is for "good". Catalyst presented himself as being one with the Reapers and we saw enough, what they do with people who trusted them. They are harvesting us for our own good? Haha, good one. Only naive child would believe that. So much suffering in so much cycles, only to help us? Right. They could come to us, talk with us and give us their technology to protect us from synthetics. Then they would not have to "save" us in the Reaper form.

2. Eyes. Saren and Illusive Man's eyes. Shepard gets those eyes only if he chooses to side with the Reapers. Undoubtful proof for being indoctrinated. It's good that the documentary stated how much effort BioWare put into those eyes. It can't be coincidence.
3. Reversed colors. Mass Effect trilogy relied always on blue and red. Those reversed colors and being led to the blue ending supports that control and synthesis are bad.

Those points convinced me to the IT. I hope when EC comes out, it would be clear .

[gendocrono]

I think is just about conciliant and pragmatic choices.

And both of them include good, bad, right and wrong.

All is about how we did the thing, and not what we want to do

It's conciliant to save the concil, it's appear to be a good thing but many humans dies (is that a "good" choise for their family ?)
it's pragmatic to let them die, it's "wrong" with the morality but in this situation, the point is to garanty to fleet to win.

The choices are not "what do we do" ? >>> we kill sovereign
The choices are "How we do this"

Same thing about Collector base, it's conciliant, so "good" thing to destroy it but it could seem to be a wrong thing if we couldn't have it against the Reapers (galactic score).

Etc...

I don't thing that it's correct to resume the choises to Good/Bad Right/Wrong.
It's more complicated, don't you think ?

[Ownaholic]

Erield wrote...

Ownaholic wrote...

The only downer about this whole situation is the fact that my actual website hasn't gotten ANY attention from this at all; which is what I make videos for in the first place. Go figure. xD

But I'm just happy to have been able to contribute to the community. I never fathomed it would get this big of a reaction....and it's only been one day since I released it.

Welll, I may be going out on a limb here, but maybe a little bit of advertising to your website alongside the video would net you a couple hits? And if it's already there, ignore me, I managed to completely miss it.

Haha I had been. That is what "Clever Noob" is; the website. I had that watermark for it on the bottom right the entire time, and must've said "OMIGODZ GO TO CLEVERNOOB.COM" about 20 times in the video. xD
But that's okayyyy. I've gotten a lot of subscribers through this, and hopefully that will mean new regular viewers, which will mean more people at the site.