616 réponses à ce sujet

[balance5050]

CavScout wrote...

It is true. IT folks just dismiss whatever is inconvenient by claiming it is IT related. I mean, look at this point you cling to. You assume IT because soldiers in a FIREFIGHT don't help a boy up into a shuttle he easily got into himself. It's not because they're in a fight, no it's because of some elaborate conspiracy by BW...

Again, focusing on one of the weakest aspects of I.T..

Let's try something a little more interesting shall we?

How else would Shepard live through this?



unless he never left Earth?

Modifié par balance5050, 11 mai 2012 - 03:56 .

[CavScout]

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

It is true. IT folks just dismiss whatever is inconvenient by claiming it is IT related. I mean, look at this point you cling to. You assume IT because soldiers in a FIREFIGHT don't help a boy up into a shuttle he easily got into himself. It's not because they're in a fight, no it's because of some elaborate conspiracy by BW...

Again, focusing on one of the weakest aspects of I.T..

Let's try something a little more interesting shall we?

How would Shepard live through this?

Plot armor.

[balance5050]

CavScout wrote...


Plot armor.

The plot said he was supposed to die. He's no longer needed for the plot.

Modifié par balance5050, 11 mai 2012 - 04:02 .

[OH-UP-THIS!]

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...


Plot armor.

The plot said he was supposed to die. He's no longer needed for the plot.

Touche, LOL

[dreman9999]

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

It is true. IT folks just dismiss whatever is inconvenient by claiming it is IT related. I mean, look at this point you cling to. You assume IT because soldiers in a FIREFIGHT don't help a boy up into a shuttle he easily got into himself. It's not because they're in a fight, no it's because of some elaborate conspiracy by BW...

Again, focusing on one of the weakest aspects of I.T..

Let's try something a little more interesting shall we?

How would Shepard live through this?

Plot armor.

Now I know your just a troll.

[Ownaholic]

Thanks for defending the good-will of the theory while I was gone balance.

@ The person complaining about the whole armor situation:
If you don't have any time to waste, then why did you spend any coming here and arguing against a ridiculously small aspect of a theory that is obviously one of the smallest supporting pieces of evidence? If you watch the video, it is clearly listed as "plausible", meaning "could be true, might not be". Try busting down on one of the ones I state as truth.

Furthermore, if you check the rest of this topic, I've held many adult debates with many sophisticated critics. You're the first one who has actually made little to no sense with every single argument  (Even Isaac made more sense in his arguments) and has effectively come out swinging; then attempt to make personal attacks in an effort to take the reader's attention off the fact that what you're saying has no basis in fact.

As I stated before, why waste your "precious time" if you disagree so much? I love having debates with people, but you're truly just being arrogant, cocky, and downright disrespectful. I'll ask that you politely either change your attitude, or leave this topic.

Modifié par Ownaholic, 11 mai 2012 - 04:28 .

[balance5050]

It's my pleasure, seriously, it's fun for me.

[Domanese]

balance5050 wrote...

It's my pleasure, seriously, it's fun for me.

Way to make him reach for the emergency induction ports Balance. Loving that crappy answer.

In either case I have watched this documentary and really there's nothing else I can say about it that other people have not. All I can say is that I look forward to the extended cut and what answers it may give us. I want the extended cut to give us something satisfying whether or not IT is proven. In the meantime I'll be playing multiplayer and my Renegade Playthrough.

Modifié par Domanese, 11 mai 2012 - 06:24 .

[gendocrono]

heum........

About the amor thing..

Does nobody notice that the final scene when shepard breathes could simply be a sort of CG cinematic, meaning pre-calculated and not take in consider what set of armor the player is wearing ?

I mean, the are several cinematic in CG where we see shepard with "default' armor.
And it's not the same that cut-scene who use graphic motor of the game, and include the customized armor.

I don't know if i'm clear, but there are examples of what i'm trying to explain.

Here is what i call "CG cinematic":


And that is cut scene "graphic motor" :


And how could i argue that the breathe-scene is in CG ? Because we NEVER, in "simple" cut-scene, have seen Shepard breathing. (i mean, the chest's move).
So with these points, this point of IT is belivable, it could juts be a mistake from Bioware.

I'm just focussing on this point to show that this mistake is not enough strong to contradict IT.

Even if i don't believe that is was in the BW's plan.
However, if in the end, BW decides (yes, i know.....hope) to "use" IT, it could match with the "shepard-lives" scene.


Edit : And by the way, even if it could be an argument who contradict the IT, it certainly doesn't contradict all the many majors points of IT (and we come back into this point, how does shep survive ? Even Bioware couldn't answer to this, seriously.)

Modifié par gendocrono, 11 mai 2012 - 10:19 .

[Peranor]

CavScout wrote...



It is true. IT folks just dismiss whatever is inconvenient by claiming it is IT related. I mean, look at this point you cling to. You assume IT because soldiers in a FIREFIGHT don't help a boy up into a shuttle he easily got into himself. It's not because they're in a fight, no it's because of some elaborate conspiracy by BW...

It doesn't work like that. If you pick just one little thing and attack that, then sure the theory looks weak.
But it's about all the small (and big) things combined together. That is the Indoctrination Theory. Not single events and observations separated from eachother.

It all adds up to something big, or huge even.

EDIT:
There is one thing in the video though that i'm not buying. And that is Shepards scorched armor after being hit by Harby's beam. It's clearly just a techincal issue. A shortcut if you wish. Creating the scorched look textures for every armor type and combination possible would be too much I think.

And I do belive that the "Shepard lives" breathe scene was a pre-rendered CG cinematic and not rendered by the games graphics engine. So at least in that scene it makes sense not to create a uniqe scene for every possible armor.

Modifié par anorling, 11 mai 2012 - 10:58 .

[cogsandcurls]

gendocrono wrote...

heum........

About the amor thing..

Does nobody notice that the final scene when shepard breathes could simply be a sort of CG cinematic, meaning pre-calculated and not take in consider what set of armor the player is wearing ?

I mean, the are several cinematic in CG where we see shepard with "default' armor.
And it's not the same that cut-scene who use graphic motor of the game, and include the customized armor.

I don't know if i'm clear, but there are examples of what i'm trying to explain.

Yeah, the final "Shep lives" thing is a prerendered video, and therefore cannot adjust itself to adapt to whatever armour Shep is wearing at the time. I haven't had the time to check, but if Ownaholic is right and it is dark blue instead of burnt, then the only reason I can think of them forcing everyone into that armour at the end of the game (barring IT - while I think the documentary is very impressive and sold me on a lot of aspects of it, this is not one of them) is so that when the breathing scene plays everyone knows that it's their Shep in the cutscene instead of going "who's that? I know it isn't my Shep because she wears bright green!" I have no idea why they'd go to all that trouble just to make such a cutscene work, though. Maybe they wanted it to be prerendered so enthusiasts couldn't flycam round their "mysterious" ending, who knows.

Of course, there are ways around the armour issue that wouldn't have made it so confusing and wierd. If that was their intention, they could have just made every Shepard get into Hammer uniform at the FOB before the end.

[juplaa]

I don’t believe IT because of contextual reasons. (Or rather macro instead of micro reasons)

IT is too good to be true. I would be (pleasantly) surprised if the writers put that much thought into an ending where they test/trick the player. It would be a big artistic risk ,which is in line EA’s global code of conduct. But the ending feels more rushed and filled with plot holes. It looks everything but a high quality ending(story wise).

They been promoting player choice to decide the faith of the galaxy throughout their marketing campaign. They exaggerated a lot and straight out lied sometimes ( ABC), but it’s still something they tried to achieve. Assuming IT to be true, the only you decide at the end is whether or not you are going to be indoctrinated. You don’t actually decide anything about the galaxy in those final moments because it’s supposed to be all a dream.

Given IT is true, the three choice ending is a test. Choosing destroy would obviously not destroy the reapers. Why would they let a dying organic (read: something that poses little to no threat) destroy them. I can’t come up with a valid argument why they would put themselves at risk like that trying to convince/indoctrinate someone that’s practically dead. It would at most make you wake up(the n7 breathe scene, given IT=true) and resist indoctrination. And here comes the Marco argument: How is that the conclusion to a trilogy. They wouldn’t pull a Lost on us, and we would be getting some answers. Also, Why are the mass relays still being destroyed just like in the other ‘dream sequences’ and is the ending scene still pretty much the same. Why do the reapers show Shepard the same thing every time? Why even show the mass relays being destroyed if choosing the renegade option? (I’m more inclined to believe that the creators failed to deliver, possibly because of being rushed … the ending just reeks of corner-cutting) (*)

Also, IT assumes the whole story and all the details are entirely coherent. This forms the basis of the entire theory as IT'ers will look for proof in story elements and setting details. It's also one of the reasons why I try not to base my opinion on micro details. It’s impossible to know what one of the many writers had in mind when they wrote/created a certain element or scene in the story. Let alone all those separately created pieces be 100% consistent. Mass effect is created by a lot of different people and different writers, and thus different ideas, approaches, .. . Assuming everything is coherent in a situation like this is very risky.

I think a lot of fans (including myself) who were disappointed or confused about the conclusion of the Shepard-trilogy just want a high quality IT-like ending. I hope BW uses this theory for their DLC. But forgive me if I don’t believe that’s what they intended all along =)

Modifié par juplaa, 11 mai 2012 - 01:35 .

[gendocrono]

It's not the matter of trusting or not IT, BW says that IT is NOT planned and they didn't planned another sort of "true" ending coming up with future DLC.

The matter is that to "fix" the official ending, IT is a good solution, and maybe the best considering the official ending.

The point now is what will BW do ?

1) Consider IT as a very effective solution and took it in consideration to add new scenes that goes into IT.

>> They can fix the ending to make the most twist in video game history, but they might loose "writing" credibility by accepting solutions by fans, not by their teams of writers.

2) "F*ck of IT guys", we keep our "space-magic-artistic-creative-super-saiyen-ending" and will just add more scene to please the fans.

>> They put balls on table because no matter what, they assume their own ending, agree or not.
They show to the world that nobody (even fan community) would decide for us.
And they take the risk to let the fans displeased (because i don't know how they could "fix" everything by keeping their vision of the ending).

And so, they announced EC DLC, and we all know now that no gameplay will be add in this DLC, including no dialog decisions or no boss fight.

> Is that a reason to believe they will not consider IT ?
Certainly not, but still, i'm suspicious.

We don't know what they will do but if they settle for giving us cut-scenes or cinematics (like an epilogue), and don't fix the plot holes and incoherences, we still have a fail ending (or in this case, a fail-epilogue-ending).

I don't know if they realize that, because we -fans- are not dumb, we disagree the ending because the ending have failures.

They say they keep an eye on BSN and other ME forums, ok, hi Bioware !
The point isn't just to "satisfy us", but give ME a successful ending, ME diserves it.

I want still believe in BW, i want to believe they will surprise us, and they can do it......


.....only if they accept to cast doubt on their ending.

Modifié par gendocrono, 11 mai 2012 - 02:11 .

[Extra-Planetal]

Nice vid - by far the best summary I've seen so far, but does anyone have a list of all the music used?

Would appreciate that.

[Ownaholic]

Extra-Planetal wrote...

Nice vid - by far the best summary I've seen so far, but does anyone have a list of all the music used?

Would appreciate that.

Keep watching; it's in the credits.

[ioannisdenton]

just sw the whole thing. Very well done with strong points. Hope Bioware sees it and realise that they MESSED UP. i do not believe in IT that is why i am saying Bioware messed up. Fans actually made a interpretation out of this mess. Hope IT turns true.

[nightcobra]

great video, a nice and concise summary of the IT's strong and weak points.

ps: though i have to disagree on the geth (upgraded with reaper code) not having a soul, to take your example a computer like the one you built doesn't have a soul and that is correct, however for this analogy consider a computer like yours akin to an organic cell, a cell also doesn't have a soul as it is at its core an organic computer. all those cells working in unison make us...us. it's pretty much the same for the upgraded geth in that respect.

[darkreed]

Awesome Video. I think a great breakdown of the IT.

I would like to think that IT was implanted into the game to try and make an mind blowing ending that could have gone down in the history of gaming series.

But..

The main problem with IT that I have, is that if the ending all happens inside Shepards head, then we still have no ending to the game. By making the choice of Red, you would in effect be beating the Indoctrination (how ever it is spelled) there would still be the problem that the fight is still going on and the Catalist hasn't been used yet. A whole new section of the game would have to be added to show the ending moments of the ongoing war.

[Swagga like Bane]

Hey O.P, I saw your video last night, and I loved it

I hope it is true, and I do believe that Shepard is immune to indoctrination (or at least really hard to possess) and that the IT is an attempt to indoctrinate him. I haven't invested as much time in the ME universe as some others since I started on Ps3 with the genesis comic but I played through Me2 several times and it has been my favorite game to date, I was hoping it would be outdone by Me3 but that remains to be seen.

The only thing I can hope for is that the EC is more than just an EC but that it's called an EC just to get us to think that it is an EC, just like the ending is supposed to make us think it is the ending but it is not.

[HyperGlass]

Do I see a car of some kind in the rubble or is that just me?

[shadowspecialist]

Yes this has been brought up, the rubble shows a car and I think a Mako(?)

[Ownaholic]

HyperGlass wrote...

Do I see a car of some kind in the rubble or is that just me?

Yes sir. I have highlighted the area in the video where I personally believe is an overturned mako tank, and then a piece of plate shielding metal from either the same mako tank, or one of the downed helicopters that got blown up in close proximity to where Shepard is hit running to the beam.

[Blue Liara]

This video. Is amazing. Was skeptical before of the IT. Totally convinced now. There are just too many coincidences for the IT not to be true.

[delphonic]

This video is great.

It reaffirms my belief that the ending was a failed indoctrination attempt (red) and that ME4 will be about Shepard rising to fight the war against the Reapers.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

gendocrono wrote...

It's not the matter of trusting or not IT, BW says that IT is NOT planned and they didn't planned another sort of "true" ending coming up with future DLC.

The matter is that to "fix" the official ending, IT is a good solution, and maybe the best considering the official ending.

The point now is what will BW do ?

1) Consider IT as a very effective solution and took it in consideration to add new scenes that goes into IT.

>> They can fix the ending to make the most twist in video game history, but they might loose "writing" credibility by accepting solutions by fans, not by their teams of writers.

2) "F*ck of IT guys", we keep our "space-magic-artistic-creative-super-saiyen-ending" and will just add more scene to please the fans.

>> They put balls on table because no matter what, they assume their own ending, agree or not.
They show to the world that nobody (even fan community) would decide for us.
And they take the risk to let the fans displeased (because i don't know how they could "fix" everything by keeping their vision of the ending).

And so, they announced EC DLC, and we all know now that no gameplay will be add in this DLC, including no dialog decisions or no boss fight.

> Is that a reason to believe they will not consider IT ?
Certainly not, but still, i'm suspicious.

We don't know what they will do but if they settle for giving us cut-scenes or cinematics (like an epilogue), and don't fix the plot holes and incoherences, we still have a fail ending (or in this case, a fail-epilogue-ending).

I don't know if they realize that, because we -fans- are not dumb, we disagree the ending because the ending have failures.

They say they keep an eye on BSN and other ME forums, ok, hi Bioware !
The point isn't just to "satisfy us", but give ME a successful ending, ME diserves it.

I want still believe in BW, i want to believe they will surprise us, and they can do it......


.....only if they accept to cast doubt on their ending.

I only have one correction, the underlined part, Bioware has NEITHER denied NOR confirmed this theory.

So everybody just quit that ok?

Well we're sadly in for a world of hurt, regardless what anyone speculates, because this mess isn't going to be fixed with some half-assed FREE DLC.

The Voice actors are going in to Bioware, to do future planned DLC's, which as far as I'm concerned, can DIAF!