616 réponses à ce sujet

[Rhaigun]

Brilliantly done! Indoctrination theory makes for the best ending in any media form I've ever seen.

[phat0817]

great vid man

[cogsandcurls]

Erield wrote...

Furthermore, the gun is exactly the same, and the sequence is exactly the same, as when you encounter Eva Core at the end of the Mars mission.

Speaking as an Infiltrator who tried to take out Eva with a Mantis the first try and got my head smashed in because the reload was too slow to get the required second headshot off...it's really not the same.

[SirCroft]

Great work! It was entertaining to watch. I personally believe IT would be the best case scenario. That would make have faith in BioWare again, even if they planned this all along or they screwed up massivelly and just used to to give us what we want, it would show a great amount of commitment from them. And that's what I want the most.

[legaldinho]

Ownaholic wrote...

It's finally finished and ready for your viewing pleasure!

Over an hour and twenty minutes of straight up analysis surrounding the indoctrination theory. I just want to say thank you SO MUCH to everybody who has patiently awaited this documentary, and to everybody who takes the time to watch it.

Don't forget to watch in HD, and as always, enjoy! 

The Indoctrination Theory - A Documentary

Please hold all discussions in this topic, on the video itself, or in our designated topic for the discussion on our homepage at CleverNoob.com

If any of you are interested in promoting the video, feel free to use this image in your signature. Or just talk about the video. =D. It was a terrible 2-minute job; you have my sincerest apologies for how horrible it is.
http://www.clevernoo...indoctheory.png

really nicely constructed vid, OP.

You make a compelling argument about the final scenes consisting of a series of reconstructed memories of Shep's. One think I thought about but never posted before, is the similarity of the scene with earth overhead, nice blue planet with thick atmosphere. Shepard died in circumstances where his ship was breached, and he could see a blue planet with thick atmosphere dominating the vistas above him. Not definitive, because it can be explained away through sheer wow value in both cases. But still, it fits.

[VibrantYacht]

Brilliant video!

[Ownaholic]

legaldinho wrote...

Ownaholic wrote...

It's finally finished and ready for your viewing pleasure!

Over an hour and twenty minutes of straight up analysis surrounding the indoctrination theory. I just want to say thank you SO MUCH to everybody who has patiently awaited this documentary, and to everybody who takes the time to watch it.

Don't forget to watch in HD, and as always, enjoy! 

The Indoctrination Theory - A Documentary

Please hold all discussions in this topic, on the video itself, or in our designated topic for the discussion on our homepage at CleverNoob.com

If any of you are interested in promoting the video, feel free to use this image in your signature. Or just talk about the video. =D. It was a terrible 2-minute job; you have my sincerest apologies for how horrible it is.
http://www.clevernoo...indoctheory.png

really nicely constructed vid, OP.

You make a compelling argument about the final scenes consisting of a series of reconstructed memories of Shep's. One think I thought about but never posted before, is the similarity of the scene with earth overhead, nice blue planet with thick atmosphere. Shepard died in circumstances where his ship was breached, and he could see a blue planet with thick atmosphere dominating the vistas above him. Not definitive, because it can be explained away through sheer wow value in both cases. But still, it fits.

Certainly something I will take a look at. But from what it sounds like, I see no reason this couldn't be supporting evidence. Thank you for your time and kind words!

[alec1898]

I'm sorry, I don't watch documentaries unless they're narrated by Morgan Freeman. D:

[kkr]

Untill I watched this documentary, I had no opionions on the theory. But now I realize it is very poignant and even not conformed, I would be shocked if everything was just circumstantial. That being said, I believe it is a possiblity after all it has not been shot down by the developers yet has it?

[Ownaholic]

alec1898 wrote...

I'm sorry, I don't watch documentaries unless they're narrated by Morgan Freeman. D:

Balls. Well, I can redo the whole thing speaking like Morgan if you really want.

*edit*
@KKR
Bwahahhaah, you have been converted! Success! But to my knowledge, they have not openly stated that the IT theory is wrong; or even really hinted at it. They've been choosing to ignore it.

Modifié par Ownaholic, 09 mai 2012 - 02:29 .

[CaFe87]

Love the video, great work!

But there is one thing I still wonder about. The final part takes place on the Citadel - not the Crucible. So the "Destroy-Tube" and "Control-Control" are part of the Citadel, which was build by the reapers. What is their normal function on the Citadel?
This adds up to the theory, that the Crucible was created by the reapers as well...my head starts to hurt...

[Ownaholic]

CaFé87 wrote...

Love the video, great work!

But there is one thing I still wonder about. The final part takes place on the Citadel - not the Crucible. So the "Destroy-Tube" and "Control-Control" are part of the Citadel, which was build by the reapers. What is their normal function on the Citadel?
This adds up to the theory, that the Crucible was created by the reapers as well...my head starts to hurt...

Thank you! =D
But, I believe the final scene in the decision chamber DOES take place on the Crucible. If you remember, the Crucible comes in and makes contact with the place that Shepard is standing. He goes up the little elevator platform thing, and into the Crucible.

But if you're right, that certainly would add to the theory!

[alec1898]

CaFé87 wrote...

Love the video, great work!

But there is one thing I still wonder about. The final part takes place on the Citadel - not the Crucible. So the "Destroy-Tube" and "Control-Control" are part of the Citadel, which was build by the reapers. What is their normal function on the Citadel?
This adds up to the theory, that the Crucible was created by the reapers as well...my head starts to hurt...

It makes it seem like they want you to destroy them, and that, is why you will fail.

[Makrys]

Here... I... Go...3...2...1...Video commencing...

I shall report back after!

[Simon_Says]

I noticed that your vid isn't actually all the current. In no particular order...

• We've found that yes, trees appear after Harbinger's beam that weren't there before.
• Someone found a cubemap (a texture used to simplify rendering environmental reflections) that shows trees in the crucible room. I don't have a link to that direct source but someone took a video demonstrating the tree reflections.
• There's an idea that the hallucination actually starts earlier with the sudden odd crash of the shuttle.

And other things I don't have links on hand for.

• The concrete rubble in the sheplives cinematic matches the model perfectly for broken concrete slabs strewn throughout the Earth levels. The 'cables' are also competely generic. The cinematic definitely doesn't take place on the Citadel, beyond doubt.
• Shepard had cybernetic eyes before. But they're only visible on renegade Shepards and are completely different from TIM's eyes. Why didn't they reuse the asset they had already made for Shepard?
• The electrical arcing sounds on the Citadel sound like gunfire and husk screeches.
• TIM's change of heart from "I'm not seeking your approval" to "I need you to believe."
• The Final Hours iOS app confirms that they were experimenting with indoctrination at some point, but got rid of elements involving taking control away from the player. Didn't say the idea was completely scrapped.

If you ask for these on the semi-official indoc thread i'm sure some people will be able to give sources and links to verify these.

[Ji99saw]

SirCroft wrote...

Great work! It was entertaining to watch. I personally believe IT would be the best case scenario. That would make have faith in BioWare again, even if they planned this all along or they screwed up massivelly and just used to to give us what we want, it would show a great amount of commitment from them. And that's what I want the most.

So you would enjoy bioware saying we gave you an incomplete game and completly scammed you out of your money?

[Simon_Says]

Ji99saw wrote...

SirCroft wrote...

Great work! It was entertaining to watch. I personally believe IT would be the best case scenario. That would make have faith in BioWare again, even if they planned this all along or they screwed up massivelly and just used to to give us what we want, it would show a great amount of commitment from them. And that's what I want the most.

So you would enjoy bioware saying we gave you an incomplete game and completly scammed you out of your money?

And yet we're getting the EC for free... What are you complaining about?

[DangerSandler]

I'm 34 minutes in. really well done. But there's one thing that I'm not sure is mentioned or not. That the place where the choice is made (talking with the catalyst) looks exactly the same as the charge to the citadel beam.

[Ownaholic]

Simon_Says wrote...

I noticed that your vid isn't actually all the current. In no particular order...

• We've found that yes, trees appear after Harbinger's beam that weren't there before.
• Someone found a cubemap (a texture used to simplify rendering environmental reflections) that shows trees in the crucible room. I don't have a link to that direct source but someone took a video demonstrating the tree reflections.
• There's an idea that the hallucination actually starts earlier with the sudden odd crash of the shuttle.

And other things I don't have links on hand for.

• The concrete rubble in the sheplives cinematic matches the model perfectly for broken concrete slabs strewn throughout the Earth levels. The 'cables' are also competely generic. The cinematic definitely doesn't take place on the Citadel, beyond doubt.
• Shepard had cybernetic eyes before. But they're only visible on renegade Shepards and are completely different from TIM's eyes. Why didn't they reuse the asset they had already made for Shepard?
• The electrical arcing sounds on the Citadel sound like gunfire and husk screeches.
• TIM's change of heart from "I'm not seeking your approval" to "I need you to believe."
• The Final Hours iOS app confirms that they were experimenting with indoctrination at some point, but got rid of elements involving taking control away from the player. Didn't say the idea was completely scrapped.

If you ask for these on the semi-official indoc thread i'm sure some people will be able to give sources and links to verify these.

I've actually seen all of these before EXCEPT for the magical tree appearing. That could definitely be a new piece of evidence. But I honestly feel like that was done for the effect. Maybe it was a continuity problem: The trees were on the right earlier, maybe they got mixed up and put one on the left . Maybe they just wanted to enhance the "getting up" scene a bit.
As many people know, the ending was rushed. It would be cause for a lot of mistakes just like that.

As for the tree reflections in the decision chamber: I don't personally buy it. The map-viewer is required to see them, which means it shouldn't be considered a valid piece of evidence IMO. It wasn't meant to be seen by the players, which means that it was a previous idea that got scrapped.

I definitely appreciate your thoughts on this and your effort to contribute to this! Keep nit-picking for me! =D

*edit*

DangerSandler wrote...

I'm 34 minutes in. really well done. But there's one thing that I'm not
sure is mentioned or not. That the place where the choice is made
(talking with the catalyst) looks exactly the same as the charge to the
citadel beam.

I deliberately left that piece of info out. I did not find it to be compelling enough to include. There was only one element that "sorta" looks similar. It would make perfect sense to have those orbs there to conduct the electricity, IMO. Further, there are only so many ways to make a beam, so the fact that they look almost exactly the same is reasonable.
I seriously considered the idea, toyed with it awhile, even started writing a script for it; but ultimately scrapped it.

Modifié par Ownaholic, 09 mai 2012 - 02:50 .

[CavScout]

HellishFiend wrote...

Mark my words: Videos like these are ultimately going to be a part of video gaming history. We're experiencing and taking part in an unprecedented level and depth of storytelling.

Truthers and Birthers say the same about their videos....

[Sepharih]

Watched the whole thing. Let me first state that while I do not believe bioware intended indoctrination, it IS my preferred interpretation of the events of the game.

So having said that...while I did think there were some fascinating observations in there (the bodies being a reference to ashley and Kaiden is briliant, as well as the skybox I never noticed).....I'm sorry to say that most of the points raised in this video really aren't very convincing.

The problem with Indoctrination theory is that while "interpretation" gives you a lot of wiggle room...a "theory" like this hinges on the idea that bioware meant it all along...and all signs point to the lead writers intending for the ending to be taken at face value.

Sorry...but despite what the video might say...virtually every single claim made in the video that "there is no other explanation" can be explained fairly easily as either lazy level design or poor storytelling.

Like my signature shows, I don't care what bioware tries to tell me: Shepard was indoctrinated and that was that. Having said that, it's no more their intentions then this was:

http://ignatz.brinks...cfightclub.html

[Ji99saw]

Simon_Says wrote...

Ji99saw wrote...

SirCroft wrote...

Great work! It was entertaining to watch. I personally believe IT would be the best case scenario. That would make have faith in BioWare again, even if they planned this all along or they screwed up massivelly and just used to to give us what we want, it would show a great amount of commitment from them. And that's what I want the most.

So you would enjoy bioware saying we gave you an incomplete game and completly scammed you out of your money?

And yet we're getting the EC for free... What are you complaining about?

You do realise that the reapers are not taken care of in the IT right? And the EC is not changing ending or adding anything new. Which means the reapers were never stopped and the game was never concluded. So that means that they took your money for an incomplete game, and they are trying to make a sequel or DLC

[Ownaholic]

Sepharih wrote...

Watched the whole thing. Let me first state that while I do not believe bioware intended indoctrination, it IS my preferred interpretation of the events of the game.

So having said that...while I did think there were some fascinating observations in there (the bodies being a reference to ashley and Kaiden is briliant, as well as the skybox I never noticed).....I'm sorry to say that most of the points raised in this video really aren't very convincing.

The problem with Indoctrination theory is that while "interpretation" gives you a lot of wiggle room...a "theory" like this hinges on the idea that bioware meant it all along...and all signs point to the lead writers intending for the ending to be taken at face value.

Sorry...but despite what the video might say...virtually every single claim made in the video that "there is no other explanation" can be explained fairly easily as either lazy level design or poor storytelling.

Like my signature shows, I don't care what bioware tries to tell me: Shepard was indoctrinated and that was that. Having said that, it's no more their intentions then this was:

http://ignatz.brinks...cfightclub.html

I actually agree with you. The fact that there is no 100%, solid, absolute piece of evidence means that this could all be mere coincidence. However, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but an official iPhone app from Bioware states that the Indoctrination Theory was originally on the table. It never openly stated that it was completely given up on, either.

[SirCroft]

Well, I made this, inspired by the video.



Feel free to use it if you want!

[Ownaholic]

SirCroft wrote...

Well, I made this, inspired by the video.



Feel free to use it if you want!

Wow, that's awesome! Thank you! =D