616 réponses à ce sujet

[CavScout]

Makrys wrote...
2. Also, from Parabolee's blog, the destroy ending is the ONLY ending that creates 3 plot flags/IDs. So, it would seem, pick destroy, Shep lives and have a future.

I guess you missed it in the other two endings where Shep's body is absorbed/disintegrated...

[CavScout]

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

 You missed at least one huge clue, the tree reflections during the catalyst sequence.

http://i.imgur.com/RIIzj.jpg 

http://img72.imagesh...5148/treees.png   

If odd graphical reflections are proof of Indocrination Theory, do these screenshots prove this game has IT going too?

Or are graphical glitches just glitches.

Different game, different team, unrelated.

Same issues, reflections of things not in the enviroment. It shows that reflections are not elements of IT but of sloppy game design. It is very, very important.

[Degs29]

If this is what IT derives from, I really think people are grasping at straws.  All of those points could be explained in other ways...many simply by saying BW took shortcuts.

I like the idea that Anderson is Shepard's paragon "angel" and TIM is Shepard's renegade "devil", but I don't believe for a second Bioware introduced this dynamic in the way this documentary describes: namely, a good versus evil in Shepard's head.  I believe it was simply the Reapers, through their vessel TIM, attempting to control Shepard using indoctrination.

It seems incredibly unlikely that BW intended, at any time or in any way, to use indoctrination theory.  IT is a fan response to a disappointing ending...a way to explain how a company and series they love failed to deliver what we were expecting.  There is no way BW would have allowed this to blow up as much as it did if they had an Ace already hidden up their sleeves.

[Wabajakka]

Ooo how'd I miss this? Watching now!

[Makrys]

CavScout wrote...

Makrys wrote...
2. Also, from Parabolee's blog, the destroy ending is the ONLY ending that creates 3 plot flags/IDs. So, it would seem, pick destroy, Shep lives and have a future.

I guess you missed it in the other two endings where Shep's body is absorbed/disintegrated...

Yes, of course. Meaning Shep has no future. He's indoctrinated. The Destroy ending is the only ending where he survives, and thus further backs up the theory. Thank you for proving my point. 

[Simon_Says]

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

 You missed at least one huge clue, the tree reflections during the catalyst sequence.

http://i.imgur.com/RIIzj.jpg 

http://img72.imagesh...5148/treees.png   

If odd graphical reflections are proof of Indocrination Theory, do these screenshots prove this game has IT going too?

Or are graphical glitches just glitches.

Different game, different team, unrelated.

Same issues, reflections of things not in the enviroment. It shows that reflections are not elements of IT but of sloppy game design. It is very, very important.

On it's own, it's doubtful. But if we assume that the magically appearing trees from the conduit run weren't also a mistake of some sort, then we can reason that the trees there and in the dreams had some sort of meaning, and ergo the tree reflections in the crucible chamber also have some sort of meaning.

These aren't just little decals we're talking about, but large, obvious portions of the cubemap.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 09 mai 2012 - 04:47 .

[known_hero]

That was awesome!

[Ownaholic]

Makrys wrote...

I'll just copy and paste my YT comment:

"Ok. That was amazing. I was a believer before, and I think I'm an even stronger one now. GREAT JOB! And thank you for taking the time to do this. I know it was a pain in the ass to complete, so we really appreciate your hard work! Bravo, good sir! Give yourself a pat on the back! You deserve it!"

Also, if someone could make that same sig with the "Wake up, Shepard" but with MaleShep's eyes, I'd be all over that! Just not a femshep user myself...

But once again, GREAT JOB, OP! I honestly do not understand how someone could sit through the entirety of that video and come away still disbelieving the theory. There was some very, very compelling evidence. Especially, the 'dream foliage', I'm not joking when I say that as soon as you presented that, I began laughing and a slow clap followed. I was amazed at that find.

However, there were two other pieces of information I was surprised you left out.

1. During the scene with TIM and Anderson, someone found the file name for that scene (much like the dream foliage) and it apparently had 'indoctrination' in the title. This, I believe, is represented in Parabolee's blog. Pretty convincing stuff there.

2. Also, from Parabolee's blog, the destroy ending is the ONLY ending that creates 3 plot flags/IDs. So, it would seem, pick destroy, Shep lives and has a future. That is interesting stuff. And definitely backs up the IT further. Why else would Shep live only in the destroy ending? Would've liked to hear you bring that up and comment on it as I think it is a worthy argument, whether you deem it true or plausible. I think it is pretty telling, IMO.

Those are really the only two things that I felt like were missed, in an absolutely amazing and obviously critiqued documentary. Seriously, this was top notch stuff, and I personally would give you a high five followed by a bro hug if we were in the same room at the moment. You deserve high praise for the research, and hard work you put into this! It's absolutely evident throughout, so props to you!

Once again, thank you! I hope this flies around the intrawebs and gets much deserved attention. Personally, I think it will. Stuff this good doesn't just stay hidden. Especially when Acavyos' video is insanely popular yet is less indepth than your's (only at around 20 mins).

Go grab yourself a beer, or whatever beverage suits your pink taster and relax! Also, take a deep breath. Its done. Now... go get some damn sleep! 

Thanks so much for the awesome words Makrys! It really means a lot to receive all this positive feedback, especially of that magnitude.
You can have a virtual bro hug if that's good enough! I do signatures, too! (Just kidding, but I would totally sign something if I got something in the mail, haha)

I actually left out both of those pieces of evidence intentionally. I felt that the first one could be explained by the fact that Bioware initially intended to have the trees in the crucible room, to make it resemble more like the new planet at the end; but later removed them and forgot to remove the reflections.
For the second one, I just didn't find that convincing enough to add in. It's sure neat, definitely; but the variance in code was only assumed to mean save checkpoints; and furthermore that oddity could be a reference to start the "breathing" scene.

Anywho, again thank you so much for the kind words! They seriously seriously seriously mean a lot, because getting comments from people is the ONLY thing that keeps me making videos. So thank you!
The best thing anybody can do for me and this video is to promote it wherever possible, and to be a loyal fan on the YT Channel.

A beer and some madden sounds like a solid idea right now. Thanks for the suggestion!

[balance5050]

Ownaholic wrote...

osbornep wrote...

Some constructive criticisms:

1. The argument that synthetics don't have "souls" at 55:00 seems unpersuasive. It's true that they are made with metal and electricity, but it's true of human beings that they are made of cells; when enough of those cells die off, we no longer exist. So the question is, what is so special about being made of biological material? Do cells have the special capacity to emanate "soul stuff" that metals and electricity do not? Why think this? Also, the analogy to a computer is unsuccessful. The reason why it's foolish to think a computer has any moral worth (I think this is a better term than "soul") is because it isn't conscious, cannot form goals and plans, cannot engage in intelligent conversation with you, etc. None of these considerations apply to the Geth or EDI.

Also, the claim that synthetics lack souls seems to be falsified by the game itself, at least if we consistently apply what appears to be one of the key assumptions of the indoctrination theory: If TIM says p, then the developers don't want you to believe p. In one of the VLogs at the Cerberus base, we see that TIM regards EDI as nothing more than a piece of hardware: "a cyber warfare suite, nothing more" (http://www.youtube.c...?v=TcQklK6VXG8; skip to 3:45). Is the suggestion that TIM was wrong about controlling the reapers, but right about synthetics having no moral value? I seriously doubt the developers would go about presenting their ideas this way.

2. I'd be leery about citing the Strategy Informer article as far as the dark energy ending. The headline (that the Dark Energy storyline was the original ending) has been explicitly denied by Karpyshyn, who maintains that Dark Energy was merely one among many possibilities considered.

http://www.gameranx....ies-conclusion/

The quote was from a posting on the Something Awful forums, so I don't think it can be directly attributed to Karpyshyn himself as the Strategy Informer article does. I only mention this because I was (rightfully) called out for making the same mistake a while back, and I'd hate for you to repeat that mistake. Not a big deal as far as the overall argument of your video.

Otherwise, I'm impressed with both the content and the presentation of your video. I'm still not persuaded of IT, as I think there's a substantial amount of evidence against it (don't want to go into that in this post), but what you've created here is a valuable resource.

1) I state after I make that argument that you don't have to agree with me. It doesn't really lend much to the theory or the point I was making either way. The following point in the video after that was the point I was getting at. I never expected most people to believe that belief of mine.

2) I didn't realize it came from somewhere else. I was just citing the article I reference.

Regardless, thank you so much for watching! Keep nit-picking, I appreciate criticisms of all kinds.


*edit*
@Balance
I didn't miss it. I left it out deliberately. I do not believe in the tree reflections because it is not explicitly noticeable by the player without using the out-of-cam view.
Further, it was stated that the original Crucible was meant to be a place much like the final planet, and therefore they may have constructed it initially with trees, but forgot to remove the reflections.

If you notice, there are 3 sepearate cubemaps, 3.

Why would there be three? and why differentiate which one shows depending on your EMS?

It could have been easier to just have one without the trees. If you also notice the trees get bigger and brighter when you have more choices, which contrasts the dead trees in the dreams.

I beleive that the tree's were holographic and meant to be bigger and brighter when you have more EMS because the catalyst has more of a reason indoctrinate you when you have high EMS.

But I do understand that that most players will not be able to see it on their 360. So I understand you decision to exclude it.

Still wish you would have covered it, I mean, you did cover the dream asset file which DO appear in the dreams after all. 

Modifié par balance5050, 09 mai 2012 - 04:52 .

[Makrys]

Ownaholic wrote...

Makrys wrote...

I'll just copy and paste my YT comment:

"Ok. That was amazing. I was a believer before, and I think I'm an even stronger one now. GREAT JOB! And thank you for taking the time to do this. I know it was a pain in the ass to complete, so we really appreciate your hard work! Bravo, good sir! Give yourself a pat on the back! You deserve it!"

Also, if someone could make that same sig with the "Wake up, Shepard" but with MaleShep's eyes, I'd be all over that! Just not a femshep user myself...

But once again, GREAT JOB, OP! I honestly do not understand how someone could sit through the entirety of that video and come away still disbelieving the theory. There was some very, very compelling evidence. Especially, the 'dream foliage', I'm not joking when I say that as soon as you presented that, I began laughing and a slow clap followed. I was amazed at that find.

However, there were two other pieces of information I was surprised you left out.

1. During the scene with TIM and Anderson, someone found the file name for that scene (much like the dream foliage) and it apparently had 'indoctrination' in the title. This, I believe, is represented in Parabolee's blog. Pretty convincing stuff there.

2. Also, from Parabolee's blog, the destroy ending is the ONLY ending that creates 3 plot flags/IDs. So, it would seem, pick destroy, Shep lives and has a future. That is interesting stuff. And definitely backs up the IT further. Why else would Shep live only in the destroy ending? Would've liked to hear you bring that up and comment on it as I think it is a worthy argument, whether you deem it true or plausible. I think it is pretty telling, IMO.

Those are really the only two things that I felt like were missed, in an absolutely amazing and obviously critiqued documentary. Seriously, this was top notch stuff, and I personally would give you a high five followed by a bro hug if we were in the same room at the moment. You deserve high praise for the research, and hard work you put into this! It's absolutely evident throughout, so props to you!

Once again, thank you! I hope this flies around the intrawebs and gets much deserved attention. Personally, I think it will. Stuff this good doesn't just stay hidden. Especially when Acavyos' video is insanely popular yet is less indepth than your's (only at around 20 mins).

Go grab yourself a beer, or whatever beverage suits your pink taster and relax! Also, take a deep breath. Its done. Now... go get some damn sleep! 

Thanks so much for the awesome words Makrys! It really means a lot to receive all this positive feedback, especially of that magnitude.
You can have a virtual bro hug if that's good enough! I do signatures, too! (Just kidding, but I would totally sign something if I got something in the mail, haha)

I actually left out both of those pieces of evidence intentionally. I felt that the first one could be explained by the fact that Bioware initially intended to have the trees in the crucible room, to make it resemble more like the new planet at the end; but later removed them and forgot to remove the reflections.
For the second one, I just didn't find that convincing enough to add in. It's sure neat, definitely; but the variance in code was only assumed to mean save checkpoints; and furthermore that oddity could be a reference to start the "breathing" scene.

Anywho, again thank you so much for the kind words! They seriously seriously seriously mean a lot, because getting comments from people is the ONLY thing that keeps me making videos. So thank you!
The best thing anybody can do for me and this video is to promote it wherever possible, and to be a loyal fan on the YT Channel.

A beer and some madden sounds like a solid idea right now. Thanks for the suggestion!

Haha! I never mentioned the trees, I was referring to the 'indoctrination' title in the file for the TIM and Anderson scene. 

Also, the plot IDs. 

Did you confuse my post? Or am I not reading correctly? 

And you're most welcome! 

[Ultra Prism]

well made! i enjoyed ... some stuff were missed such as low EMS and how it may affect indoc theory

[Ownaholic]

Makrys wrote...

Haha! I never mentioned the trees, I was referring to the 'indoctrination' title in the file for the TIM and Anderson scene. 

Also, the plot IDs. 

Did you confuse my post? Or am I not reading correctly? 

And you're most welcome! 

Oh, wow, I had gotten used to hearing about the "TREE REFLECTIONS, TREE REFLECTIONS, TREE REFLECTIONS" over the last few hours that anything with any word even remotely close to tree (in this case, foliage) in it automatically meant that. My bad!

But to talk about your ORIGINAL point, haha: I actually didn't know that at all. That's VERY interesting.  I wish I had known about that prior to making the video.


*edit*
@Balance

That's a good point. Perhaps there is more to it than I realized. I didn't know it changed based on EMS.

Modifié par Ownaholic, 09 mai 2012 - 04:57 .

[balance5050]

 But seriously though man, great job! I thoroughly enjoyed and will start spreading it around my corner of the internet.

[Makrys]

Ownaholic wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Haha! I never mentioned the trees, I was referring to the 'indoctrination' title in the file for the TIM and Anderson scene. 

Also, the plot IDs. 

Did you confuse my post? Or am I not reading correctly? 

And you're most welcome! 

Oh, wow, I had gotten used to hearing about the "TREE REFLECTIONS, TREE REFLECTIONS, TREE REFLECTIONS" over the last few hours that anything with any word even remotely close to tree (in this case, foliage) in it automatically meant that. My bad!

But to talk about your ORIGINAL point, haha: I actually didn't know that at all. That's VERY interesting.  I wish I had known about that prior to making the video.


*edit*
@Balance

That's a good point. Perhaps there is more to it than I realized. I didn't know it changed based on EMS.

Either points? The file title, and plot IDs? Damn. I wish you did, because that is some good evidence IMO.

Oh well, video succeeded without them!

[Makrys]

balance5050 wrote...

 But seriously though man, great job! I thoroughly enjoyed and will start spreading it around my corner of the internet.

WHO THE HELL GAVE YOU YOUR OWN CORNER?! Not fair.

[ref]

I'm not sure if the Mike Gamble twitter post is still there, but I distinctly remember him posting something like a week or even less after the game was out saying something along the lines of "If you guys knew what we had in store for you, you would hold on to your ME3 discs forever" or something very similar to that.

This tweet was in response to the ending complaints that early on, before BioWare "announced" that they were going to refocus and start making the EC.

Now, why would Gamble tweet this... it must have been in regards to the ending follow up, otherwise I don't see what else he would refer to. If it were just random DLC, he should of realized that wouldn't change the perception of pissed off gamers over the ending.

So maybe there is some hope it was all planned

Interesting none the less


EDIT: https://twitter.com/...942797880541185

Found it, and it was 2 days after release.

Modifié par Refara, 09 mai 2012 - 05:05 .

[Ownaholic]

@Balance
Thanks mayng. =D

@Makrys
I meant for the file title; I'm still iffy about the plot ID's thing. I think there is plausibility in it, but it's closer to a no in my book. But like I said with some points in the video, "If the evidence works for you, then good!". xD

@Refara
Yes, I saw him post that as well. Very interesting to say the least. Check out Parabolee's blog (the link is in the end of the video, in the credits), he has a lot of information about dev posts.

Modifié par Ownaholic, 09 mai 2012 - 05:04 .

[Makrys]

Ownaholic wrote...

@Balance
Thanks mayng. =D

@Makrys
I meant for the file title; I'm still iffy about the plot ID's thing. I think there is plausibility in it, but it's closer to a no in my book. But like I said with some points in the video, "If the evidence works for you, then good!". xD

@Refara
Yes, I saw him post that as well. Very interesting to say the least. Check out Parabolee's blog (the link is in the end of the video, in the credits), he has a lot of information about dev posts.

Why do you think its a no? It seems pretty convincing... 

Modifié par Makrys, 09 mai 2012 - 05:07 .

[balance5050]

Makrys wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

 But seriously though man, great job! I thoroughly enjoyed and will start spreading it around my corner of the internet.

WHO THE HELL GAVE YOU YOUR OWN CORNER?! Not fair.

My corner: 
http://www.reddit.com/r/Indoctrinated/ 

I share it with others though;)

[Makrys]

balance5050 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

 But seriously though man, great job! I thoroughly enjoyed and will start spreading it around my corner of the internet.

WHO THE HELL GAVE YOU YOUR OWN CORNER?! Not fair.

My corner: 
http://www.reddit.com/r/Indoctrinated/ 

I share it with others though;)

Your corner of the interweb contains lots of theories. You must think for a living.

[Ownaholic]

Makrys wrote...

Ownaholic wrote...

@Makrys
I meant for the file title; I'm still iffy about the plot ID's thing. I think there is plausibility in it, but it's closer to a no in my book. But like I said with some points in the video, "If the evidence works for you, then good!". xD

Why do you think its a no? It seems pretty convincing... 

When I first saw it, I felt the same way. But then my inner-critic came in and was like "NO!". And I can't deny my inner-critic.
But seriously, I just feel like that extra flag could have meant for Shepard's "Breathing" scene to start.
However, it certainly does make sense that it could mean we need a save file in order to contrinue in the ME universe.

*edit*
@Balance
I like that corner. Thanks for the post!

Modifié par Ownaholic, 09 mai 2012 - 05:09 .

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Ownaholic wrote...

I've updated the first post with the code to use the signature; with a link back to this topic.
It would be awesome if everybody here using it could update their signatures with the link included! Thanks so much!

@CavScout, I see what you mean, but I believe that in this particular theory, the fact is valid. Half of the theory is based around the fact that this is going on in Shepard's mind, and therefore his mind is perfectly capable of re-creating a lot of this imagery, however inaccurate it may be.
We already know the dream sequences were a dream, and those had warning to Shepard. Why is it now all of a sudden that we can't see the same thing?

While I respect everyones' opinion, PLEASE please, ignore "cavscout", he simply hasn't the capacity to understand this theory.
If we IGNORE his quips/inserts, he'll hopefully eventually, just give up and vacate.(one could only hope lol)

[Makrys]

Ownaholic wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Ownaholic wrote...

@Makrys
I meant for the file title; I'm still iffy about the plot ID's thing. I think there is plausibility in it, but it's closer to a no in my book. But like I said with some points in the video, "If the evidence works for you, then good!". xD

Why do you think its a no? It seems pretty convincing... 

When I first saw it, I felt the same way. But then my inner-critic came in and was like "NO!". And I can't deny my inner-critic.
But seriously, I just feel like that extra flag could have meant for Shepard's "Breathing" scene to start.
However, it certainly does make sense that it could mean we need a save file in order to contrinue in the ME universe.

*edit*
@Balance
I like that corner. Thanks for the post!

Well... Gamble did say to hold onto our saves!

Annnnd there are 3 plot IDs, not just an 'extra' one. I personally think there is something more to it. The Shep 'breathing' scene should only contain one flag. I see no reason why it would hold 3. Idk.

[balance5050]

Makrys wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

 But seriously though man, great job! I thoroughly enjoyed and will start spreading it around my corner of the internet.

WHO THE HELL GAVE YOU YOUR OWN CORNER?! Not fair.

My corner: 
http://www.reddit.com/r/Indoctrinated/ 

I share it with others though;)

Your corner of the interweb contains lots of theories. You must think for a living.

"You must think for a living."

I like to think so...

[Makrys]

ohupthis wrote...

Ownaholic wrote...

I've updated the first post with the code to use the signature; with a link back to this topic.
It would be awesome if everybody here using it could update their signatures with the link included! Thanks so much!

@CavScout, I see what you mean, but I believe that in this particular theory, the fact is valid. Half of the theory is based around the fact that this is going on in Shepard's mind, and therefore his mind is perfectly capable of re-creating a lot of this imagery, however inaccurate it may be.
We already know the dream sequences were a dream, and those had warning to Shepard. Why is it now all of a sudden that we can't see the same thing?

While I respect everyones' opinion, PLEASE please, ignore "cavscout", he simply hasn't the capacity to understand this theory.
If we IGNORE his quips/inserts, he'll hopefully eventually, just give up and vacate.(one could only hope lol)

Well for awhile, we were... until you just brought him up again.