171 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Olchick wrote...

Meril doesn't need Creation

I'd argue that, given that per the lore of DAO she knew the same healing magic Marethari knew, and thus should have a Dalish variant tree where she can use healing-esque spells on allies.

Merlex wrote...

Sebastian is cornered by whatever, and he can't pull out a daggar?

He technically does in his CQC animations.

Not that I disagree with your intended point, in that being unable to equip Sebastian with daggers, swords, axes, etc is a bit frustrating.

Even if they only had skill trees for their intended weapon -- Sebastian and Varric for archery -- they should still be able to equip other weapons and use the base animations that the game provides those weapons. Meaning Sebastian should be able to equip an axe and a shield and fight like Aveline or Warrior Hawke does when they abstain from using Warrior skills.

I don't really see why that should be. Especially in the case of Varric and Sebastian, who both have in-game justification. Sebastian explicitly states that he has no talent for swordplay, and trained exclusively in archery since he was young, and Varric would not use any weapon but Bianca regardless.

[TEWR]

Plaintiff wrote..

I don't really see why that should be. Especially in the case of Varric and Sebastian, who both have in-game justification. Sebastian explicitly states that he has no talent for swordplay, and trained exclusively in archery since he was young, and Varric would not use any weapon but Bianca regardless.

My bad, poor examples. How about Fenris using an archery style animation even though his talents are more suited for 2-Handed weaponry -- though S&S have a lot as well.

[Plaintiff]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Plaintiff wrote..

I don't really see why that should be. Especially in the case of Varric and Sebastian, who both have in-game justification. Sebastian explicitly states that he has no talent for swordplay, and trained exclusively in archery since he was young, and Varric would not use any weapon but Bianca regardless.

My bad, poor examples. How about Fenris using an archery style animation even though his talents are more suited for 2-Handed weaponry -- though S&S have a lot as well.

Well, that would be a better example.

But for me personally, in a class-based series like Dragon Age, (especially when you only have the three to choose from) I like the classes to be distinct, as opposed having the ability to cross over.

My big problem with DA:O was that my preferred class, Rogue, had a) less unique aspects to it and less content overall, compared to the other two classes. I was very happy when DA2 made Dual-Wield and Archery trees rogue-only.

I'm all for having more options in terms of character build, but I'd rather it take the form of expanding the current classes separately, rather than blending them together. If there has to be cross-over, I'd prefer it require the player to pick up a specialisation of some kind, but I suppose I could live with your idea.

[Realmzmaster]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Olchick wrote...

Meril doesn't need Creation

I'd argue that, given that per the lore of DAO she knew the same healing magic Marethari knew, and thus should have a Dalish variant tree where she can use healing-esque spells on allies.

Merlex wrote...

Sebastian is cornered by whatever, and he can't pull out a daggar?

He technically does in his CQC animations.

Not that I disagree with your intended point, in that being unable to equip Sebastian with daggers, swords, axes, etc is a bit frustrating.

Even if they only had skill trees for their intended weapon -- Sebastian and Varric for archery -- they should still be able to equip other weapons and use the base animations that the game provides those weapons. Meaning Sebastian should be able to equip an axe and a shield and fight like Aveline or Warrior Hawke does when they abstain from using Warrior skills.

I can see Fenris grabbing a sword and shield, but I do not see him being able to use it as well as Aveline or Warrior Hawke in even the most basic way. Fenris has spent most of his life wielding a two handed weapon the weight of a shield in one hand and a longsword in the other would be different. So a penalty of some sort should be in effect.
A penalty should be in effect if Aveline grabs a two handed sword unless somewhere in her background she trained with such a sword. A lesser penalty would be in order. That could also apply to Fenris.

There is no reason for Varric to be equipped with any weapon outside of Bianca. Bianca has a retractable bayonet built in.

Sebastian stated that he is bad at swordplay which is why the focus on archery. 

[philippe willaume]

Hello
You can really have two takes on that.

Being a warrior is being to use generic principle and applies it to the weapon.
I.e. in German fencing you are taught to use a long sword to start with and then the sword and buckler is really the same thing with different execution in the bind. (But it stays true to the generic long sword fighting principles, the opening are just in different places at a different time.
Using a Messer one handed sword is two handed fencing.

A knight or men at arms would know how to use a bow or a crossbow, because that is what they used to hunt.
Or for example the Scottish Archers (and any archers on a retainer) was able to use a poleaxes and swords. (In fact they are as often depicted with another weapon than the bow than with it)

So one approach would be to say the ability to use different weapons is what makes a warrior as opposed to a rogue, who is using less efficient weapons and need a more precise placement to be efficient. Of course the same logic would apply to rogue as well so they would be able to use all the tools of their trade.
In that case inter class differentiation would come from talent/skills selection

The other is to make a clear difference between the classes itself.
So class members are limited to a much stricter subset of weapons so that you clear different flavour within the classes

Personally I prefer the fist solution because it offers more game play diversity.
Now there is pitfall with both, either diversity leads to inefficiency or limitation lead to boredom.

Phil

[Sylvius the Mad]

Realmzmaster wrote...

I can see Fenris grabbing a sword and shield, but I do not see him being able to use it as well as Aveline or Warrior Hawke in even the most basic way. Fenris has spent most of his life wielding a two handed weapon the weight of a shield in one hand and a longsword in the other would be different. So a penalty of some sort should be in effect.
A penalty should be in effect if Aveline grabs a two handed sword unless somewhere in her background she trained with such a sword. A lesser penalty would be in order. That could also apply to Fenris.

There is no reason for Varric to be equipped with any weapon outside of Bianca. Bianca has a retractable bayonet built in.

Sebastian stated that he is bad at swordplay which is why the focus on archery. 

Why should we blindly accept the writers' word with regard to the abilities of the companions?  There's no in-game reason for Varric to use any weapon but Bianca, but the player might still want to see it.

The mechanical restriction added by DA2 was entirely unnecessary.

[Plaintiff]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

I can see Fenris grabbing a sword and shield, but I do not see him being able to use it as well as Aveline or Warrior Hawke in even the most basic way. Fenris has spent most of his life wielding a two handed weapon the weight of a shield in one hand and a longsword in the other would be different. So a penalty of some sort should be in effect.
A penalty should be in effect if Aveline grabs a two handed sword unless somewhere in her background she trained with such a sword. A lesser penalty would be in order. That could also apply to Fenris.

There is no reason for Varric to be equipped with any weapon outside of Bianca. Bianca has a retractable bayonet built in.

Sebastian stated that he is bad at swordplay which is why the focus on archery. 

Why should we blindly accept the writers' word with regard to the abilities of the companions?  There's no in-game reason for Varric to use any weapon but Bianca, but the player might still want to see it.

The mechanical restriction added by DA2 was entirely unnecessary.

What's "necessary" in a videogame?

[philippe willaume]

Well it boils down to the ability to customise your party as you see fit or not
For me it is ok to have some companion that will use a type of equipment over any other and even auto level part of the xp at each level.
but in the grand scheme of things, if my varic is able to use a sword and buckler. That does not detract from the char uniqueness but gives each player the ability to customise him according to what they see his role as.

phil

[Sylvius the Mad]

Plaintiff wrote...

What's "necessary" in a videogame?

Very little.

My point is that adding the weapon restrictions as they did added nothing to DA2, but cost us quite a lot in terms of customisability.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 11 juillet 2012 - 12:11 .

[Pasquale1234]

Plaintiff wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

The mechanical restriction added by DA2 was entirely unnecessary.

What's "necessary" in a videogame?

Player agency.

Otherwise, it's an adventure flick.

[Plaintiff]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

The mechanical restriction added by DA2 was entirely unnecessary.

What's "necessary" in a videogame?

Player agency.

Otherwise, it's an adventure flick.

DA2 has plenty of player agency. What's the problem?

[wsandista]

Plaintiff wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

The mechanical restriction added by DA2 was entirely unnecessary.

What's "necessary" in a videogame?

Player agency.

Otherwise, it's an adventure flick.

DA2 has plenty of player agency. What's the problem?

Seriously?

[Merlex]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Olchick wrote...

Meril doesn't need Creation

I'd argue that, given that per the lore of DAO she knew the same healing magic Marethari knew, and thus should have a Dalish variant tree where she can use healing-esque spells on allies.

Merlex wrote...

Sebastian is cornered by whatever, and he can't pull out a daggar?

He technically does in his CQC animations.

Not that I disagree with your intended point, in that being unable to equip Sebastian with daggers, swords, axes, etc is a bit frustrating.

Even if they only had skill trees for their intended weapon -- Sebastian and Varric for archery -- they should still be able to equip other weapons and use the base animations that the game provides those weapons. Meaning Sebastian should be able to equip an axe and a shield and fight like Aveline or Warrior Hawke does when they abstain from using Warrior skills.

I can see Fenris grabbing a sword and shield, but I do not see him being able to use it as well as Aveline or Warrior Hawke in even the most basic way. Fenris has spent most of his life wielding a two handed weapon the weight of a shield in one hand and a longsword in the other would be different. So a penalty of some sort should be in effect.
A penalty should be in effect if Aveline grabs a two handed sword unless somewhere in her background she trained with such a sword. A lesser penalty would be in order. That could also apply to Fenris.

They are only trained in their starting weapons until Hawk meets them. For most companions, thats an early level. They gain much more experience after they meet Hawk.

There is no reason for Varric to be equipped with any weapon outside of Bianca. Bianca has a retractable bayonet built in.

Varric is a special case. Bianca is what old D&Ders may refer to as an Artifact or Relic (a very special item).  I can see him only using Bianca. But characters like Varric should be the exception, not the rule. No more than one per game.

Sebastian stated that he is bad at swordplay which is why the focus on archery. 

Well rogues can't use swords, but they can use daggars. Again Sebastian gains more experience after he meets Hawk. Which is when the player should have control of their developement.

Modifié par Merlex, 17 juillet 2012 - 10:20 .

[Neo DrKefka]

cJohnOne wrote...

When all you usually look at in the game is your companions. Having attractive ones is a big plus, but I still seem to like the style in DAO versus DA2.  Warriors had a common look. so did rogues.  I liked the uniformity in the looks you got.

What do you think about the issue of unique looks versus generic looks?

It's not even the looks at all. It's Dragon Age II's cast are so unlikable. You have a **** who literally has an STD and you want me to seriously consider her as a romance option? Seriously?  Then you have the forced Yaoi romance stories. After having my Korean Boss watch Jennifer Hepler's infamous interview he understood what she was talking about and it seems she to him was trying to write sort of a Yaoi novel. I don't mind gay relationships but when it's forced on you and your pressured basically it's end of line.

Except the Dwarf everyone else is really unlikable. When you think about it they made Hawke seem like the greatest hero in history and one who would change the world. Honestly, he ran from the fight and not to mention he was there for brief moments in time during a crisis in a city. 

[Plaintiff]

wsandista wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

The mechanical restriction added by DA2 was entirely unnecessary.

What's "necessary" in a videogame?

Player agency.

Otherwise, it's an adventure flick.

DA2 has plenty of player agency. What's the problem?

Seriously?

Apparently it's been six days, so replying to this seems pointless, but...

Yes, seriously. I don't see how you can argue otherwise. The player gets to make a lot of choices. Whether or not they lead to different outcomes is irrelevent. You control Hawke, not the world, and that is how it should be.

There is no videogame (or boardgame or any other type of game) that does not have player agency, and to argue otherwise is moronic. When you choose to have Mario slide down a pipe instead of climb up a vine, that is player agency. When you choose to move a Rook instead of a Knight, that is player agency.

DA2 has plenty of player agency.

[Pasquale1234]

Plaintiff wrote...

You control Hawke, not the world, and that is how it should be.

The writers, VA, and animators control Hawke.

When a character constantly says and does things that the player does not direct her/him to do, that player is not controlling the character.

[Chiramu]

I personally enjoyed the diversity of the companions in DA2, in Origins the companions looked hardly any different to NPCs (aside from Morrigan, who was the only companion that had different hair and different clothes).

I don't know how you can get JRPGs from DA2 O_o, there's not spikey Cloud hair or long hair on the DA2 companions.

But the work going into companions for DA3 looks great , I like the idea of more customisable companion armour but keeping the companions unique look .

[Plaintiff]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

You control Hawke, not the world, and that is how it should be.

The writers, VA, and animators control Hawke.

When a character constantly says and does things that the player does not direct her/him to do, that player is not controlling the character.

You sent him down the path. The fact that the result is not what you intended does not negate the fact that you made the choice.

[Pasquale1234]

Plaintiff wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

You control Hawke, not the world, and that is how it should be.

The writers, VA, and animators control Hawke.

When a character constantly says and does things that the player does not direct her/him to do, that player is not controlling the character.

You sent him down the path. The fact that the result is not what you intended does not negate the fact that you made the choice.

Sometimes I pushed a button and watched Hawke say or do something very different from what I thought I had selected.  Other times Hawke acted with no input whatsoever from me.

I'm okay with unintended results / consequences, as long as I can control (roleplay) the character.  Hawke felt like any other NPC to me, with a switch to choose whether that NPC would be diplomatic, snarky, or aggressive.

[Plaintiff]

Pasquale1234 wrote...
 a switch to choose whether that NPC would be diplomatic, snarky, or aggressive.

So you admit that DA2 has player agency. Great.

[Zubie]

Chiramu wrote...

in Origins the companions looked hardly any different to NPCs

I don't understand why this is a bad thing. Why shouldn't they look similar to everybody else in the world? Or at least in their region.

Why must our companions have a really unique attire?

Modifié par easygame88, 18 juillet 2012 - 05:23 .

[Pasquale1234]

Plaintiff wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...
 a switch to choose whether that NPC would be diplomatic, snarky, or aggressive.

So you admit that DA2 has player agency. Great.

I pushed some buttons.  I have to push some buttons to turn the thing on or off.

I had precious little control over my gaming experience, which is what player agency is.  The game and its steady stream of cutscenes mostly "played" itself.