24 réponses à ce sujet

[BaconBitz.KB]

- masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Ammo_Upgrades
In Mass Effect 1, the weapon customization was much more in depth. Each weapon had its own mods (On N7s up to 3), and their own individual ammunition powers. Sadly, in Mass Effect 2, that all went away. All that was left were the Soldiers ammo powers & what ever stats were preset. The RPG feeling of personalization & gamer individuality was gone.

RPG/Shooter %:
ME1 = 70/30
ME2 = 30/70
ME3 = 45/55

Gladly, in ME3, parts of this missing element were brought back. This is a good thing. But they forgot some of it. The feeling off ME1 is present, but not there. I think we can all agree that adding more customization can only be a good thing. And that some of these things need to be, and realistically can be, brought back. There are many
things that could be revived from previous games. But right now we'll just focus on the prementioned.

That's what this thread will be: A place to spark the enthusiasm and fandom of those who have, and haven't, played the previous games and recall the awesome presence of ammo powers. My hope is to spark new idea's for future DLC in you, the community, and to show Bioware the support we have for the return of them. So that maybe, just maybe, they will bring them back.

I have provided links to the wiki pages above. But in case something else, here is a quick

List of Ammo Types:
- Anti-Personnel/Shredder Rounds - Designed to shred flesh and other organic matter, these rounds are particularly effective against living targets due to their nature of shearing apart on impact. They are similar to hollow point rounds. (A general increase to damage vs organics)

- Armor Piercing/Tungsen Rounds - Specifically designed to puncture metal, these rounds are made of a more dense metal than regular lead and are particularly effective against synthetic targets. (The difference in ME1 being that they did extra damage to geth and mechs)

- Incendiary/Inferno Rounds - Rounds made up of a thermite paste which melts or burns through virtually all known substances. (The difference in ME1 being that they also reduced the accuracy of those effected)

- Cryo/Snowblind Rounds - Cooling lasers collapse ammunition into small Bose-Einstein condensate, a mass of super-cooled subatomic particles, capable of snap-freezing impacted objects while destabalizing them and reducing their accuracy. (The difference in ME1 being that rather then just freezing or chilling the target, it reduced accuracy of the target, and bypassed shields in Cryo Rounds, while Snowblind Rounds reduced the enemies RoF)

- High Explosive Rounds - Designed to detonate on impact, high explosive rounds are devestating to enemies, but also cause a massive increase in the users weapon overheat time. (Gave the bullets an explosive blast radius, more force, a slight damage bonus, and made the users weapon overheat faster. Due to their being no weapon overheating in ME3, this could be substituted by drastically increasing kick or reducing accuracy. Another solution they could have is to simply make it less explosive. Or another balance. Bioware will find a way)

- Hammerhead/Sledgehammer Rounds - These rounds, also called squash projectiles, are designed to flatten on impact, increasing the amount of physical force transferred to the target. (While Hammerhead Rounds just increased force, Sledgehammer Rounds reduced heat absorption, added force, and also added toxic damage. I'm assuming that if Bioware were to bring these back, they would take away the toxic damage to stay true to the base principle. They would most likely also make the extra force very significant to put them on par with the other ammos)

- Phasic/Proton Rounds - Instead of projectiles, modified weapons release charged particle bolts that can bypass kinetic barriers and shields. However the actual damage done to the target is typically less than what's done by a standard round. (These rounds are unique in that they provide a large bypass rate towards shields, but reduce actual damage)

- Chemical/Polonium Rounds - These rounds layer the enemy in a toxin that prevents healing and forces the target to regenerate through the toxin before they can actual heal. (These rounds primarily prevented the enemy from healing. They would apply a percentage of toxin onto the enemy in relevance to the amount of weapon damage. The Polonium Rounds applied a slight corrosive effect to the enemy. These were a little underpowered  compared to other rounds. This could be buffed by adding a stronger form of the corrosion, comparable to a burning effect)

- Radioactive Rounds - These rounds are stamped with a miniscule amount of radioactive material, inducing low levels of radiation sickness in targets. The sickness makes it more difficult for biotic or tech abilities to be deployed. (These rounds provided a increase in cooldown time for the enemy. This could be changed to also give a possibility for their weapons to overheat or some other buff)

- Harpoon Rounds - These rounds are built of material that condenses on impact to penetrate armor, then shreds into shrapnel in the softer medium of flesh. They are widely considered unethical. (These rounds were actual cut out of the game and were only acquirable through mods. They provided a healthy damage per second to the target and reduced the targets damage protection, or if they had none, made them more susceptable to damage)


As you can see, there are very divergent ammo types from previous games that could be brought back and be a great addition to ME3. Variety is the spice of life and Mass Effect needs more of it. Hopefully the community misses or likes these as much as I do. So make sure to show your thoughts, ideas, and support!!

Modifié par BaconBitz.KB, 09 mai 2012 - 05:14 .

[Shotokanguy]

Yeah, I don't mind the idea of ammo properties being NOT a power.

But ME1 didn't necessarily do it well.

[ThePowerOfHAT]

Still surprised something like Proton Rounds never made it into ME2 or ME3. But rather than making it into yet another ammo type, I'd rather see it added as a new mod for shotguns or sniper rifles or something like that. Surprised we don't have Shredder Rounds in MP yet, though in that case, I feel like that'd also work well as a unique weapon mod for SMG's to give them a unique potential advantage against unarmored/unshielded targets.

I don't really feel like High Explosive rounds have a place in the game anymore since that's actually an effect that can instead be unique to certain weapons (like the Striker, for example).  And as for ammo powers that reduce an enemy's accuracy, in many cases in ME3, I feel like that wouldn't really make any sense after all considering many enemies' abilities "track" the player anyway.

Modifié par ThePowerOfHAT, 09 mai 2012 - 05:10 .

[AZawesomeman]

ya and ME1 was an RPG while ME2 and 3 are more of a TPS...

[KiraTsukasa]

Just because you CAN use some formatting options, doesn't mean that you SHOULD.

[Master Xanthan]

Yeah I hate how they dumbed down weapon customization, plus the addition of thermal clips was stupid too.

[Elecbender]

Okay another thought.

Anyone else wish while leveling up the weapon the weapon gained additional properties or increased other stats besides weight, damage, and spare ammo capacity?

Examples: Revenant's accuracy increased with each level, Saber's recoil reduced and fire rate increased, Striker's fire rate and magazine size increased, Scorpion's blast radius increased and if you got to level X and you had an ammo power equipped the explosion would become that ammo power, Widow gained explosive rounds at level X, Javelin's penetration through walls increased, etc.

[BaconBitz.KB]

ThePowerOfHAT wrote...


I don't really feel like High Explosive rounds have a place in the game anymore since that's actually an effect that can instead be unique to certain weapons (like the Striker, for example).  And as for ammo powers that reduce an enemy's accuracy, in many cases in ME3, I feel like that wouldn't really make any sense after all considering many enemies' abilities "track" the player anyway.

Ya I touched base on that in another thread I made. Many weapons already have explosive effects so adding explosive rounds might be a little redundant. I still think it would be cool though.
Link: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/11922513

[tdwn]

I think substituting swappable weapon mods for weapons with different characters (the Falcon as a high explosive gun, for instance) made the game more distinct and vivid than merely having a bunch of near-equivalent weapons whose properties could be traded between each other. Now we have a choice and our preferences for weapons mean something more than they used to.

Still, there's some cool ideas in here.

[OblivionDawn]

Yes Bioware, PLEASE bring back High Explosive Rounds.

NukeSniper must be rebuilt. It is foretold in the prophecy.

[jaDanger]

I get a bit tired of all the people that say that me3 is less rpg than me1, at least in terms of combat flexibilty. It is a more evolved rpg system that, while action oriented, gives you far more customizability to the way you play. While me1 gave you tons of skill points to potentially use, and had weapons that you would analyze with numerical statistics, ultimately the guns only went up in numbers, class differences were less substantial than what would follow, and the majority of individual points specced into powers made little difference in how you actually played, rather just changing the percentages a bit. ME2 was pared down, but did enhance the differences between classes by making the powers less about identifying what defenses are your strength and more about playing a way based on your class making each class much more unique, thereby allowing you to truly pick your role and play it. This was enhanced in ME3 most notably with the addition of the weight system, and an improved skill tree that gives you multiple options in how a skill will function, as opposed to merely picking which skills to take ala me1. The weight system allows you to outfit an adept to use powers far faster than you could in the earlier games, but gives you the flexibilty to play it, or any of the other extremely varied classes, any way you want. The gun selection, especially now in me3, is also far more varied than when the game started. Even if me1 offered many different guns, every gun within a type played almost identically. Even among the gun classes there was little real variation in the feel of weapons. Statistical bumps make little difference in giving you meaningful choice and allowing you to play your chosen style or role, but merely suggest progression. Me3 offers guns that our not necesarilly better, but that instead allow you to choose a weapon that compliments your role and abilities. Ultimately, its a big role playing upgrade. Even if me1 offered more of the pen and paper derived role playing experience, me3 makes a far more meaningful distinction between how any two players choose to experience the game letting them individually fill the role, the true test of roleplaying quality.
The fact that its far more competent as a shooter shouldn't detract. Also, as much as i miss exploration from me1, going back and playing again its difficult to see how often assets were just copied and pasted.

[scottster117]

Sure, their return would be neat. I disagree that me1 has the best customization though. I'd rather have 10 different ARs with less mods than 1 AR with 50 palette swaps and more mods any day of the week.

Modifié par scottster117, 09 mai 2012 - 06:07 .

[BaconBitz.KB]

jaDanger wrote...

I get a bit tired of all the people that say that me3 is less rpg than me1, at least in terms of combat flexibilty. It is a more evolved rpg system that, while action oriented, gives you far more customizability to the way you play. While me1 gave you tons of skill points to potentially use, and had weapons that you would analyze with numerical statistics, ultimately the guns only went up in numbers, class differences were less substantial than what would follow, and the majority of individual points specced into powers made little difference in how you actually played, rather just changing the percentages a bit. ME2 was pared down, but did enhance the differences between classes by making the powers less about identifying what defenses are your strength and more about playing a way based on your class making each class much more unique, thereby allowing you to truly pick your role and play it. This was enhanced in ME3 most notably with the addition of the weight system, and an improved skill tree that gives you multiple options in how a skill will function, as opposed to merely picking which skills to take ala me1. The weight system allows you to outfit an adept to use powers far faster than you could in the earlier games, but gives you the flexibilty to play it, or any of the other extremely varied classes, any way you want. The gun selection, especially now in me3, is also far more varied than when the game started. Even if me1 offered many different guns, every gun within a type played almost identically. Even among the gun classes there was little real variation in the feel of weapons. Statistical bumps make little difference in giving you meaningful choice and allowing you to play your chosen style or role, but merely suggest progression. Me3 offers guns that our not necesarilly better, but that instead allow you to choose a weapon that compliments your role and abilities. Ultimately, its a big role playing upgrade. Even if me1 offered more of the pen and paper derived role playing experience, me3 makes a far more meaningful distinction between how any two players choose to experience the game letting them individually fill the role, the true test of roleplaying quality.
The fact that its far more competent as a shooter shouldn't detract. Also, as much as i miss exploration from me1, going back and playing again its difficult to see how often assets were just copied and pasted.

You have some valid points, but god are you wrong. You are completely insulting ME1. Yes it was sloppy; Yes the classes were less defined. But it was made in f*cking 2007. You don't realize how how far gaming has come in that time. For its time ME1 was great. In fact, for its time, ME1 was the greatest of the trilogy. It was a vast and advanced RPG with a strong shooter core. That's still what Mass Effect is today. But it is much more reliant on the shooter aspect; Putting it just that much closer to most other generic games on the market. And get me straight, ME3 is an awesome game. All I'm trying to do is improve it. Things like this can easily bring it back to its core without drastically changing the game. That is all arguable. But I don't care what you say to this statement: ME3 is NOT as RPG as ME1.

[Rokayt]

I wouldn't mind ammo attachments, if they were generally less about altering the composition of the rounds, and more about altering the shape of the rounds.
Replace HE rounds with a round that causes shrapnel (More chance involved, but the potential to inflict damage over a larger area, and less stunning), instead of adding a redundant Incendiary ammo power, and trivializing the falcon/striker.

[BaconBitz.KB]

scottster117 wrote...

Sure, their return would be neat. I disagree that me1 has the best customization though. I'd rather have 10 different ARs with less mods than 1 AR with 50 palette swaps and more mods any day of the week.

Dont misunderstand. I'm not trying yo completely bring back ME1s system. Just certain aspects of it. I do like the fact that there is a larger variety of guns.

[capn233]

Well the ammo types were more interesting in ME1, I will give you that. The Phasic style rounds weren't really worthwhile in that game though, just because time to kill a shielded target wasn't actually improved over Tungsten or Shredder. But in this game with the Shield Gate mechanic it would actually have the potential to be the best ammo for a single shot rifle depending on the stats.

edit: I thought Polonium Rounds had the combination of preventing regen and increasing cooldowns.  Maybe I am mis-remembering.

Modifié par capn233, 09 mai 2012 - 06:30 .

[Siran]

wrong forum is wrong. and btw - what jaDanger said. In ME1 the weapons didn't feel different. At all. Same sound, same crosshair, same color. ME3 has evolved them into really distinct weapons, where it isn't about statistics alone, but how they suit your playstyle, with mods and ammo types that enhance that.

[jaDanger]

BaconBitz.KB wrote...

jaDanger wrote...

I get a bit tired of all the people that say that me3 is less rpg than me1, at least in terms of combat flexibilty. It is a more evolved rpg system that, while action oriented, gives you far more customizability to the way you play. While me1 gave you tons of skill points to potentially use, and had weapons that you would analyze with numerical statistics, ultimately the guns only went up in numbers, class differences were less substantial than what would follow, and the majority of individual points specced into powers made little difference in how you actually played, rather just changing the percentages a bit. ME2 was pared down, but did enhance the differences between classes by making the powers less about identifying what defenses are your strength and more about playing a way based on your class making each class much more unique, thereby allowing you to truly pick your role and play it. This was enhanced in ME3 most notably with the addition of the weight system, and an improved skill tree that gives you multiple options in how a skill will function, as opposed to merely picking which skills to take ala me1. The weight system allows you to outfit an adept to use powers far faster than you could in the earlier games, but gives you the flexibilty to play it, or any of the other extremely varied classes, any way you want. The gun selection, especially now in me3, is also far more varied than when the game started. Even if me1 offered many different guns, every gun within a type played almost identically. Even among the gun classes there was little real variation in the feel of weapons. Statistical bumps make little difference in giving you meaningful choice and allowing you to play your chosen style or role, but merely suggest progression. Me3 offers guns that our not necesarilly better, but that instead allow you to choose a weapon that compliments your role and abilities. Ultimately, its a big role playing upgrade. Even if me1 offered more of the pen and paper derived role playing experience, me3 makes a far more meaningful distinction between how any two players choose to experience the game letting them individually fill the role, the true test of roleplaying quality.
The fact that its far more competent as a shooter shouldn't detract. Also, as much as i miss exploration from me1, going back and playing again its difficult to see how often assets were just copied and pasted.

You have some valid points, but god are you wrong. You are completely insulting ME1. Yes it was sloppy; Yes the classes were less defined. But it was made in f*cking 2007. You don't realize how how far gaming has come in that time. For its time ME1 was great. In fact, for its time, ME1 was the greatest of the trilogy. It was a vast and advanced RPG with a strong shooter core. That's still what Mass Effect is today. But it is much more reliant on the shooter aspect; Putting it just that much closer to most other generic games on the market. And get me straight, ME3 is an awesome game. All I'm trying to do is improve it. Things like this can easily bring it back to its core without drastically changing the game. That is all arguable. But I don't care what you say to this statement: ME3 is NOT as RPG as ME1.

The last thing I want to do is insult ME1. Its definitely one of my best games of all time. I also don't want to hijack the thread, as i suggested something similar on rokayt's design your own gun thread (specifically introducing a retro me1 weapon with no thermal packs, but with a single inherent me1 weapon power like polonium rounds to make up for slightly lower damage). I don't want to argue because our views are only a hair's breadth apart. But i will anyway. Just a little.
Really, i just want to qualify. ME1 made the universe feel bigger than the following games, with random planets that could have anything from ancient artifacts to pirate traps hidden behind beacons. True it used a few tricks to make it feel that way, such as the aforementioned asset replication ( the truth is everyone just shops at the same space warehouses are us), and many didn't enjoy those parts, but they did create a sense of scope that enhanced immersion, amd did so while deftly introducing us to, and integrating us into, a fantastic new universe that many of us have stayed with for years. It was a thrilling game, and in that sense the roleplaying is unrivalled, even with the higher tech, bigger budget sights and sounds of its descendants.

But, I regularly go back and play me1 to the extent my scratched disk will allow, and, understandably given its age, the combat mechanics feel dated but more importantly rigid. The game primarily forces its role differentiation by creating limitations, most notably in the form of weapon proficiency. My vanguard and infiltrator feel largely the same except one os better against health and one is better against shields. For all that me1 achieved, its combat had room for improvement. Me2 made some missteps that removed player choice, but the hybrid system adopted for the final chapter creates even more meaningful choices than the original. Whereas the original relied on palette swaps and statistics to create the illusion of choice, the new game has powers, weapons, and the weight system to balance the two that makes gameplay choices dynamic and player driven. Rosenkov materials vs. Kassa fabrication pistols, was a choice made solely on stats, not because of the role I wanted to play. Scorpion vs. Phalanx on the other hand is a visceral emotional choice that dramatically affects how i play. And that ignores my other weapon choices that would have been restricted in me1. So, in the limited sphere of combat mechanics, me3 is a legitmate evolution of the mechanics of roleplaying.

And give me hammerhead rounds or give me death!

[Yajuu Omoi]

BaconBitz.KB wrote...

ThePowerOfHAT wrote...


I don't really feel like High Explosive rounds have a place in the game anymore since that's actually an effect that can instead be unique to certain weapons (like the Striker, for example).  And as for ammo powers that reduce an enemy's accuracy, in many cases in ME3, I feel like that wouldn't really make any sense after all considering many enemies' abilities "track" the player anyway.

Ya I touched base on that in another thread I made. Many weapons already have explosive effects so adding explosive rounds might be a little redundant. I still think it would be cool though.
Link: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/11922513

Or those already explosive weapons would simply gain smaller secondary explosions, like how the inferno grenade explodes but then has smaller bits that explode on their own? that kind of thing...

yes? no?

[Epsilon330]

OblivionDawn wrote...

Yes Bioware, PLEASE bring back High Explosive Rounds.

NukeSniper must be rebuilt. It is foretold in the prophecy.

Imagine a Black Widow, Revenant, GPR/SMG, or Indra paired with them...
Sweet Lincoln's MonkeyBalls that would be ridiculous!

[BaconBitz.KB]

tdwn wrote...


Still, there's some cool ideas in here.

Idk if you just worded it wierd or whatever. But just to make it clear, these aren't "ideas", they're actual ammos from previous games. There were a lot more of them and they made the game better.
But if you want to post your own ideas for new ammo types, that's cool brah. Just make sure that you could realistically see them in the game.
Here's One:
Effusion Rounds - Do 5% less damage, but absorbs 15% of the damage you deal and transfers it to you. The enemies type of protection must be the same as the one you are recharging, ie; Shoot shields to regenerate shields, shoot health to regenerate health.

[Yigorse]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Just because you CAN use some formatting options, doesn't mean that you SHOULD.

This is known as "The Church Newsletter Phenomenon" 

http://www.cracked.c...nny-5647-fonts/ 

[BaconBitz.KB]

Yigorse wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Just because you CAN use some formatting options, doesn't mean that you SHOULD.

This is known as "The Church Newsletter Phenomenon" 

http://www.cracked.c...nny-5647-fonts/ 

Ya. Idk why peoplel are so against different text. By the way I didn't use any different fonts, just italics, bold lettering, and coloring. I looked at that link and its not really relevant. But the formatting is all screwed up if you use all of the things I mentioned and then try to edit the post. I had to like 5 times to fix it and it still didnt (phasic/proton).
What you guys dont like the colored text though? I tried matching it to what the ammo type is.

[A Wild Snorlax]

I'd love for some of these to make a return.

I'd also love for bioware to introduce an ammo-power equipment pack

[InsomniaticMeat]

I personally think they could easily add in a 4th and 5th power to characters - For ammo types. Without adding more skill points to the game, you'd still have the same sense of balance as before. Plus you could make your character a little more unique.

Though I support these ammo things for equipment as well. It's a really neat idea and diversity is never a bad thing =)