428 réponses à ce sujet

[ZIPO396]

Hadeedak wrote...
Well, whether or not Shepard's implants blow up, if you assume Our Friend The Catalyst is telling the truth, the geth die. Period. End of story. If he's not, what little we understand about the ending goes out the window and we're back at "Stuff Happened and We Kind of Won Yay SHEPARD!"

I'm more inclined to say he isn't telling us the truth just because he's still technically out enemy. Still don't know why blowing up a pipe would even make the red wave anyway.

[Hadeedak]

It's what we've got so it's what we get to work with. Sort of like "Well, why can't we just turn around and take the Normandy through a NORMAL relay?" in 1. Or "Wait, it's shaped like a human? REALLY? HAHAH, babyterminator reaper!" in 2.

If you throw the base assumptions out the window, you're left standing on thin air.

[JediHealerCosmin]

Two things:

1. I believe in the Indoctrination Theory
2. The starchild is full of BS.

[UrgentArchengel]

So you believe that lying sac of virtual crap? I blew those Reapers up. I lived. Nuff Said!

[Hadeedak]

Yeah, see, I'm working off what's presented. Like it or not, that's what I've got so that's what I'll go with.

I like the idea of indoctrination theory, but it's hard to discuss in that it could mean ANYTHING and be adopted to pretty much any scenario.

[Hadeedak]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

So you believe that lying sac of virtual crap? I blew those Reapers up. I lived. Nuff Said!

Hey. Hey. Guess what.

I kept my relays. Damaged, but not exploded. How's that FTL?

[UrgentArchengel]

Hadeedak wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

So you believe that lying sac of virtual crap? I blew those Reapers up. I lived. Nuff Said!

Hey. Hey. Guess what.

I kept my relays. Damaged, but not exploded. How's that FTL?

Like Chicken.  Real good 

[ElementL09]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Do you enjoy commiting genocide, Shepard?

Genocide?  How?

If the ending is legitmate (meaning reality, instead of indocturnation or my shepard in a coma) then I didn't commit genocide.  The Humans and aliens lived, Mass relays emploded but didn't do as much damage, Reapers destroyed means reaper tech, geth heretics without reaper infleucence survied, Reaper IFF is dead - but EDI is still alive, Earth didn't get destroyed by the citadel.....I can go on.

Now if you chose the blue or green endings....do you enjoy being a puppet to a space child?

[Hadeedak]

Mine's better!

Though my Shepard is extra-crispy. But go trade-offs, I guess.

[ZIPO396]

Hadeedak wrote...

It's what we've got so it's what we get to work with. Sort of like "Well, why can't we just turn around and take the Normandy through a NORMAL relay?" in 1. Or "Wait, it's shaped like a human? REALLY? HAHAH, babyterminator reaper!" in 2.

If you throw the base assumptions out the window, you're left standing on thin air.

Wait which relay? Do you mean finding the Mu relay? That's because not all relays connect to others and they don't all go everywhere. Or do you mean the conduit? Because you need to get inside the Citadel and you're trying to catch Saren. Or do you mean the Reapers coming in through the Citadel relay? Because that's the same as above. It would be more why didn't the Starbrat turn it back on. I can go with that thou it's to connect us more with how a Reaper is made then put inside a cuttlefish armour to protect it. We can come to reasonable soloutions simply with what we were given in the last two this one is just all up in the air at the end.

[Hadeedak]

ElementL09 wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Do you enjoy commiting genocide, Shepard?

Genocide?  How?

If the ending is legitmate (meaning reality, instead of indocturnation or my shepard in a coma) then I didn't commit genocide.  The Humans and aliens lived, Mass relays emploded but didn't do as much damage, Reapers destroyed means reaper tech, geth heretics without reaper infleucence survied, Reaper IFF is dead - but EDI is still alive, Earth didn't get destroyed by the citadel.....I can go on.

Now if you chose the blue or green endings....do you enjoy being a puppet to a space child?

Red's the puppet ending. You admit you need to destroy synthetics to function, instead of 'arguing' it around by dint of Shepard's superior code. :happy:

[LKx]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Do you enjoy commiting genocide, Shepard?

Of course not, it was the thougher decision ever, after "the arrival" (pure pargorn, made peace between quarian and geths, supported EDI).
But defeating the reapers was bound to require sacrifice.
The genocidal entity couldn't be trusted with the other two options, since it just picked into Shepard mind to assume the form that make him feel most guilty, it can't be quesitoned, and it didn't anything to prove himself in good faith.

The Destroy ending is the only one which had a chance to be "controlled" if the catalyst was lying out its holographic teeth... (unfortunately shepard decided to even walk into the explosion but... whatever...)

In addition Synthesis made no sense and it wouldn't guarantee that the Catalyst's pure syntethic war scenario wasn't going to happend.
(and on the other hand i've just talked the poor TIM into suicide)

Modifié par LKx, 09 mai 2012 - 09:31 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Legion took one in the flashlight in ME2 trying to close the door because it was "distracted" and had "issues" because I wouldn't let it upload data about the migrant fleet. So I had Geth VI to deal with in ME3, not Legion. Geth VI wouldn't be reasonable like Legion about brokering peace, so the Quarians got to finish the fight and take back Rannoch. Just before the final assault, EDI told me she would choose non-functionality if it meant destroying the reapers. So that morally let Shepard off the hook.

[Hadeedak]

ZIPO396 wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

It's what we've got so it's what we get to work with. Sort of like "Well, why can't we just turn around and take the Normandy through a NORMAL relay?" in 1. Or "Wait, it's shaped like a human? REALLY? HAHAH, babyterminator reaper!" in 2.

If you throw the base assumptions out the window, you're left standing on thin air.

Wait which relay? Do you mean finding the Mu relay? That's because not all relays connect to others and they don't all go everywhere. Or do you mean the conduit? Because you need to get inside the Citadel and you're trying to catch Saren. Or do you mean the Reapers coming in through the Citadel relay? Because that's the same as above. It would be more why didn't the Starbrat turn it back on. I can go with that thou it's to connect us more with how a Reaper is made then put inside a cuttlefish armour to protect it. We can come to reasonable soloutions simply with what we were given in the last two this one is just all up in the air at the end.

Wellll... Yes and no. I think the big place the endings fall flat is where the explanation of what each choice means and results in is pretty much left floating around like an untethered balloon. Headcanon and interpretation is all well and good, but what we're given could pretty much mean ANYTHING. My point was pretty much a throwaway with "Yeah, the others had plot holes and wierdness, too."

[ZombieChad]

Hadeedak wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

So you believe that lying sac of virtual crap? I blew those Reapers up. I lived. Nuff Said!

Hey. Hey. Guess what.

I kept my relays. Damaged, but not exploded. How's that FTL?

Its awesome, take us a while to get around but we've a ton of exploring to do meeting newly formed societies and cultures, made by the varied conditions on the planets. We're looking at maybe establishing a new centralised galactic power base or perhaps something new more like a trading alliance of systems, we've got some pretty interesting times. 

How's the rebuilding of the old (and somewhat ****e, no offence) system going in yours?

[Hadeedak]

Heh.

Headcanons away!

And that's pretty much the biggest strength of the endings and why they fell so tragically flat.

Nothing was explained, nothing was illuminated.

[ZIPO396]

Hadeedak wrote...

Wellll... Yes and no. I think the big place the endings fall flat is where the explanation of what each choice means and results in is pretty much left floating around like an untethered balloon. Headcanon and interpretation is all well and good, but what we're given could pretty much mean ANYTHING. My point was pretty much a throwaway with "Yeah, the others had plot holes and wierdness, too."

That's pretty much what I was saying to but that the other ones had plot holes that could be filled in. Not so much with the end of ME3.

[Darksaberexile]

 Waiting for the EC ending to determine if destroy actually does what the catalyst says.

Sorry, but the leader of the enemy of all advanced life in the galaxy is not my first choice for information I'll trust without questioning it.

Even if he was right, I'd still pick destroy because I feel control and synthesis have more logical problems with them and would have worse consequences.

[Zolt51]

Hadeedak wrote...

Red's the puppet ending. You admit you need to destroy synthetics to function, instead of 'arguing' it around by dint of Shepard's superior code. :happy:

More like the "oh screw it" ending. Can't save them all. Better to save most of them than nothing. Reapers are poised to genocide everyone anyway.

[Drudez]

I hate the ending.
That being said: My Sheperds mission to destroy the reapers became her goal when I spoke to sovereign on Virmir. Even as a paragon(because for some reason destroy was colored red) I picked the destroy option. Regardless of weather or not the Indoctrination Theory is true(I'm a believer) that was pretty much my goal since then.

[Jassu1979]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Do you enjoy commiting genocide, Shepard?

All three options are equally repugnant, ethically speaking, yet wiping out the Reapers still comes closest to your original mission parameters.

Controlling the reapers is not an option, because
a) you have no way of knowing whether you'll actually succeed, other than the word of the entity that controls the reapers;
you've just talked the Illusive Man into a heroic last-minute suicide by pointing out (quite correctly) that no one should wield that power, and we're not ready for it;
c) Reaper tech has consistently been portrayed as corrupting and mind-bending, making it all the more likely that choosing this option means Indoctrination, and becoming the very thing that you set out to fight to begin with;
d) holding a whole race of sentient beings in bondage is quite troublesome in itself, and potentially worse than a quick death.

Synthesis is not an option because
a) it rapes every living being in the galaxy, transforming them without their consent
you have no way of knowing whether you're not just doing the Reapers' job for them, basically injecting every organism with Reaper tech (which, incidentally, was Saren's vision, his solution for the Reaper problem)
c) there is no "final step" in evolution, and being a cybernetic organism does in no way prevent the scenario that the Catalyst painted as the cause for all the mayhem
d) again, you have to take the Catalyst's word for it: a being that's responsible for countless galaxy-wide genocides throughout the ages, a being in control of malignant, giant space squids whose very presence can warp the minds of all who come near them.

Destroying the Reapers, on the other hand, does not seem to have the effect that the Catalyst predicted: given that Shepard is brimming with implants, she'd be the first to die a gruesome death - especially given her previous injuries, and the fact that she walks straight into an explosion: couple that with a tech-destroying pulse, and what you should get is a puddle of sludge, not a final scene that shows her drawing breath.
Even if that wasn't the case, however, it'd still be prudent to risk the sacrifice of allies and friends: it's a decision similar to letting the quarian Admiral's crew die on Rannoch, because his life is simply more important to the overall survival of the race as a whole. It'd be preferable to ask for their consent (and in the case of EDI, I'm pretty sure that she'd be willing to die if it meant stopping the Reapers once and for all), but as that is not an option, a tough call must be made.


That said, ALL of these options are repugnant - not bittersweet or ambivalent, but just disgusting.

[Zolt51]

Drudez wrote...

I hate the ending.
That being said: My Sheperds mission to destroy the reapers became her goal when I spoke to sovereign on Virmir. Even as a paragon(because for some reason destroy was colored red) I picked the destroy option. Regardless of weather or not the Indoctrination Theory is true(I'm a believer) that was pretty much my goal since then.

Hmmm, I'm pretty sure that "destroy the reapers" has been the main goal of the ME series for pretty much every one. It's only towards the end that we figured out there might be other options.

[SteJo6sic6]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Do you enjoy commiting genocide, Shepard?

I had no reason to believe the king reaper (star child) was telling the truth. The logic was so flawed from the "solution" to the reasons between the 3 choices.

I told TIM that we were not ready to have the power to control them not 5 minutes before so I couldn't pick that. 

Synthesis seemed to vague to me and what I did get out of it seemed wrong to force this decision on the entire galaxy. So I couldn't pick that.

That left destroy. While not a perfect choice it is what I set out to do and Legion already said to me there will be no compromise with the old machines (don't know if that's a direct quote but it was something along those lines) and EDI said the reapers repulsed her and rewrote her code accordingly. So I think they would understand the choice.

[Icinix]

All three endings are genocide in some form.

Red is the least amount of genocide against the least amount of races.

[Sweawm]

The red ending is the only way out. The rest is obviously Indoctrination and if not: turning Shepard into a hypocrite.