428 réponses à ce sujet

[The Night Mammoth]

vixvicco wrote...

I don't get how people get all emotional about the geth. Like really? Just because they can imitate being human, doesn't make them equal to a person. So people are actually conflicted about this choice because they are afraid to kill a machine? That like saying you don't want to shut down a computer because you're scared you'll hurt its feelings. 
Plus, the Reapers clearly weren't created by organics, whereas the geth where. If I had to consider it genocide, I would only consider it so in regards to the Reapers, who you want to kill anyway. They are partly organic as well, which is another point. I like Legion, but to save him over a living, breathing thing? Stupid.

Did you save the Geth? 

[Shallyah]

Obvakhi wrote...

vixvicco wrote...
I don't get how people get all emotional about the geth. Like really? Just because they can imitate being human, doesn't make them equal to a person. So people are actually conflicted about this choice because they are afraid to kill a machine? That like saying you don't want to shut down a computer because you're scared you'll hurt its feelings. 
Plus, the Reapers clearly weren't created by organics, whereas the geth where. If I had to consider it genocide, I would only consider it so in regards to the Reapers, who you want to kill anyway. They are partly organic as well, which is another point. I like Legion, but to save him over a living, breathing thing? Stupid.

That's exactly what a Renegade Shepard would say. "Who gives a damn about a robot, humans come first!"
Paragon Shepard clearly believes synthetics have every right to live as organics do.

No, what Renegade Shepard would do is playing god. "I'll control all these super-machines of massive destruction and have ultimate power, let's see who dares to do anything I don't like from now on".

The Geth get killed in the only acceptable ending of the game? But were they ever alive?

Like a koi in a frozen pond.
Like a goldfish in a bowl.
I don't want to hear you cry.

[Arcadian Legend]

WE_Belisarius wrote...

My Shepard did not enjoyed commiting genocide, since he already killed the Geth on Rannoch.
Btw OP, did your Shepard enjoyed the massmurdering of 300.000 Batarians in Arrival?

Arrival's pretty moot, since you had no other choice. Unless you count trying to warn the batarians.

[vixvicco]

Obvakhi wrote...

vixvicco wrote...
I don't get how people get all emotional about the geth. Like really? Just because they can imitate being human, doesn't make them equal to a person. So people are actually conflicted about this choice because they are afraid to kill a machine? That like saying you don't want to shut down a computer because you're scared you'll hurt its feelings. 
Plus, the Reapers clearly weren't created by organics, whereas the geth where. If I had to consider it genocide, I would only consider it so in regards to the Reapers, who you want to kill anyway. They are partly organic as well, which is another point. I like Legion, but to save him over a living, breathing thing? Stupid.

That's exactly what a Renegade Shepard would say. "Who gives a damn about a robot, humans come first!"
Paragon Shepard clearly believes synthetics have every right to live as organics do.

Fair enough. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I can see why some people can get heated about this, but its not a big deal. I'm not even angry about it. I just don't consider it genocide. I actually like the geth, it just never occured to me, "I dont want to choose red because the geth will die". I like Legion, but I don't see how the other choices are made more appealing all of a sudden because of that. Why would I join the Reapers (Control), mutilate someone's DNA (synthesis) or anything else just because I felt a little sad for a little bit of programming? :

Modifié par vixvicco, 09 mai 2012 - 11:33 .

[CroGamer002]

Arcadian Legend wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

^But will those new robots be geth?

If the quarians remake them in the exact same way as before. There may be some slight differences, but it may not be all that different from reviving Shep. Remember how Miranda said she would try anything to make sure Shep was the exact same man/women she was before death? (disregarding player choice) Plus if there were some Geth outside relay range (possible, they'd have remote stations EVERYWHERE in and around the Veil and other places) there won't be any worries regarding that because they know how to build themselves probably better than even the quarians if you know what I'm trying to say.

Plus as a side note Destroy is the only ending that ensure total death for reapers. I keep getting the feeling regarding the other two that due to the fact they are still active there is little in the end stopping them from coming back again if they deemed it necessary.

But can we trust quarians for that?

I mean, those who know geth best wanted them either dead or controlled, with exception of Tali.

Does Daro'Xen ring any bells?


Yeah, huge risk for that too, to be screwed up even if the most of quarians would get along with geth.

[Joccaren]

vixvicco wrote...

I don't get how people get all emotional about the geth. Like really? Just because they can imitate being human, doesn't make them equal to a person. So people are actually conflicted about this choice because they are afraid to kill a machine? That like saying you don't want to shut down a computer because you're scared you'll hurt its feelings. 
Plus, the Reapers clearly weren't created by organics, whereas the geth where. If I had to consider it genocide, I would only consider it so in regards to the Reapers, who you want to kill anyway. They are partly organic as well, which is another point. I like Legion, but to save him over a living, breathing thing? Stupid.

What you and so many others do not get is that we are equal to SENTIENT machines, like the Geth.

We are both made of circuitry. We both 'exist' because of electrical impulses running along that circuitry. The difference is our circuitry is made of Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Phosphorous, Oxygen and Sulfur.

You can build more machines, but can you make them sentient?

Its like saying wiping out humanity isn't a bad thing, because cockroaches would still exist, and someone else could breed cockroaches. Well, yeah, cockroaches will exist... but are they us? No. They're not sentient, they're not us, and I'm pretty sure you'd argue against anyone who tried to use that sort of logic - so why does that logic apply to the Geth.

"If the Quarians build them the same way they'll be the same" - no they won't. The Geth aren't simply hardware. The hardware is irrelevant. The software is what the Geth are. That Software was given Reaper code by Legion - converting it into a true sentients. Pre that, the Geth were sentient as a whole group, but not when individual. Now, each individual Geth is a sentient being akin to a human.

Shutting down a computer and killing the Geth are not the same - or even similar. Saying they are is like saying giving an ant some sleeping drugs is the same as wiping out humanity. Its not. Don't even try that.

As for the "Just because they can imitate being human" argument: They aren't imitating being human. What you call being human is actually known as sentients - something which the Geth have achieved by the end of ME3. Its like saying "Just 'cause Turians can imitate being human" or "Just because Salarians can imitate being human".



Now, I'm not unreasonable. Give me one logical, thought out reason why the Geth are so fundamentally different to us that they cannot be considered alive, and if it is inarguable, I'll accept it. You won't be able to come up with one though. You can only come up with the equivilent of Racism towards the Geth. "They're different so they're not equal to us". I don't think I need to bring up where that logic has been used before, nor the affects of that.

[vixvicco]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

vixvicco wrote...

I don't get how people get all emotional about the geth. Like really? Just because they can imitate being human, doesn't make them equal to a person. So people are actually conflicted about this choice because they are afraid to kill a machine? That like saying you don't want to shut down a computer because you're scared you'll hurt its feelings. 
Plus, the Reapers clearly weren't created by organics, whereas the geth where. If I had to consider it genocide, I would only consider it so in regards to the Reapers, who you want to kill anyway. They are partly organic as well, which is another point. I like Legion, but to save him over a living, breathing thing? Stupid.

Did you save the Geth? 

You mean with Tali vs Legion? Believe it or not, I tried to. I didn't have enough reputation points. I would have though.

[Movitz]

It's not genocide if they all lack souls.

Besides, I already doomed the geth before the red ending. Damn machine bastards.

[dorktainian]

destroy the Reapers. Thats been the aim since ME1. Why change now?

[Victia]

I would rather risk destroy (after all the starchild is proved to be wrong and/or lieing to you as both Shep and EDI can survive it so why not the geth as well?) that irradicate all diversity in the universe or become a reaper/the new catalist/what ever it is that goes down with control!

[Shallyah]

No, I mean, I feel sorry for the Geth. But not as sorry as to allow the Reapers to keep existing to, sooner or later, extinguish another million races. What tells you the godchild isn't another Shepard from a previous cycle that is just weary after thousands or millions of years and wants to find someone to continue his work?

To me it was the easiest choice of Mass Effect trilogy.

Modifié par Shallyah, 09 mai 2012 - 11:39 .

[Dantexr3]

I wanted to destroy the Reapers since ME1, so I didn't understand the sense of controlling them or provoking synthesis, which has nothing to do about defeating the Reapers. And as stated before, I didn't killed the Geth, Bioware did.

[arathor_87]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Do you enjoy commiting genocide, Shepard?

I ask your Shepard the same question? Arrival DLC? And it doesn't matter if you didn't play it, ME3 assume you did it anyway.

[Fingertrip]

I enjoy waking up and not being a husk or controlled by the reapers tyvm.

Finishing the fight. No compromise.

[KotorEffect3]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Do you enjoy commiting genocide, Shepard?

Hmm let's see, with the destroy ending the reapers will never be able to endanger the galaxy again.  The geth are just one of countless civilizations that have existed in the galaxy.  It sucks for them but the entire galaxy>one civilization.

[Arcadian Legend]

Mesina2 wrote...

Arcadian Legend wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

^But will those new robots be geth?

If the quarians remake them in the exact same way as before. There may be some slight differences, but it may not be all that different from reviving Shep. Remember how Miranda said she would try anything to make sure Shep was the exact same man/women she was before death? (disregarding player choice) Plus if there were some Geth outside relay range (possible, they'd have remote stations EVERYWHERE in and around the Veil and other places) there won't be any worries regarding that because they know how to build themselves probably better than even the quarians if you know what I'm trying to say.

Plus as a side note Destroy is the only ending that ensure total death for reapers. I keep getting the feeling regarding the other two that due to the fact they are still active there is little in the end stopping them from coming back again if they deemed it necessary.

But can we trust quarians for that?

I mean, those who know geth best wanted them either dead or controlled, with exception of Tali.

Does Daro'Xen ring any bells?


Yeah, huge risk for that too, to be screwed up even if the most of quarians would get along with geth.

Then they should be watched over, to make sure they don't do anything they aren't supposed to

[Shallyah]

If it was a batarian slaver, and I had to let him go to rescue a hostage, I'd let him go. What can a batarian do anyway? Next time I see him I just beat him again.

It's the Reapers we're talking about, millions of races have been extinguished by them. Eliminating them is the only way forward, since they can't be defeated if for some reason they go back to their ill doings. You can take no risks with Reapers as if they were a minor nuisance you'll just beat again if they are naughty.

The fact that Reapers still exist in Control ending means losing the game alone, even if they can be kept quiet in dark space for a few years. Some people forget the Reapers are BILLIONS of years old. They can wait a few thousands.

Also, if Destroying the Reapers means you're renegade, then I'm proudly so, so is all the Alliance, Hackett, Anderson, and all your squadmates. So I'll gladly carry the renegade flag as the universe cheers for living and evolving freely for first time in billions of years.

Modifié par Shallyah, 09 mai 2012 - 11:53 .

[Utopianus]

I chose red because that'll destroy the Star Kid...is that so bad? 

[WE_Belisarius]

Arcadian Legend wrote...

WE_Belisarius wrote...

My Shepard did not enjoyed commiting genocide, since he already killed the Geth on Rannoch.
Btw OP, did your Shepard enjoyed the massmurdering of 300.000 Batarians in Arrival?

Arrival's pretty moot, since you had no other choice. Unless you count trying to warn the batarians.

Well, it depends on your view of the control and synthesis option. For me, there was no way to choose one of the other options and I just went directly to the desstroy ending. You can say, that I felt, I had not a choice just like in Arrival.

Arathor_87 wrote...

Arrival DLC? And it doesn't matter if you didn't play it, ME3 assume you did it anyway.

Funny thing is, if you do not play Arrival a squad of Alliance Marines did your job and lost many good guys. You can check it in your War Assets.
But you are still in custody for killing the Battarians even though you did not harm one of them, which absolutely make no sense

Modifié par WE_Belisarius, 09 mai 2012 - 11:56 .

[ReXspec]

Yes, I did choose destroy and I hated every second of it.

Kinda hard to make the "right" decision when you are forced to choose between the lesser of three evils.

[NRieh]

1. In my "personal lore" playthrough Tali was the one I've lost on a SM in ME2 (well, just because my meaning of "leader" did not go same as BW, and I don't read guides on my first plays, and I don't replay choices as well). So no peace with geth was avalible for me. And when it came to choice - I chose quarrians, probably, as a small tribute to Tali. Anyway, there were no geths to make "genocide" with. And EDI would be first one to pull the trigger if she was there, by my side. Probably, saying "farewll, love" to Joker first...

2. No one REALLY knows what red one did to galaxy (same as rest 2, yes). Kid says "you're partly synthetics - can you live without it?"...and it's the ONLY choice of seeing extra 6 secs.

What really happens may vary widely from "all the toasters and calculators blown up" to "reapers gone, relays blown, rest of tech is unharmed\\harmed not that much (especially, with high EMS). Did techs had to be active while wave to be destroyed? Did it affect offline units and machines? HDDs? Discs? Any other memory-storage units? Did it affect all\\any the implant-users (especially, human biotics, yes I'm thinking about you, my poor good L2-user)?

If that blue bastard was lying about Shep's "almost certain" death - we have no reason to trust anything at all. Unfortunately, INCLUDING "all the reapers were destroyed by red".

So...yess, just moooaaaarrrr speculations untill we see EC...and, probably, it will just make some more of them to follow as we see one...

[CroGamer002]

Arcadian Legend wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Arcadian Legend wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

^But will those new robots be geth?

If the quarians remake them in the exact same way as before. There may be some slight differences, but it may not be all that different from reviving Shep. Remember how Miranda said she would try anything to make sure Shep was the exact same man/women she was before death? (disregarding player choice) Plus if there were some Geth outside relay range (possible, they'd have remote stations EVERYWHERE in and around the Veil and other places) there won't be any worries regarding that because they know how to build themselves probably better than even the quarians if you know what I'm trying to say.

Plus as a side note Destroy is the only ending that ensure total death for reapers. I keep getting the feeling regarding the other two that due to the fact they are still active there is little in the end stopping them from coming back again if they deemed it necessary.

But can we trust quarians for that?

I mean, those who know geth best wanted them either dead or controlled, with exception of Tali.

Does Daro'Xen ring any bells?


Yeah, huge risk for that too, to be screwed up even if the most of quarians would get along with geth.

Then they should be watched over, to make sure they don't do anything they aren't supposed to

That's easier said then done.