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Squadmate / Crewmate interaction - a neutral analysis


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#1
CptData

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Before you start to read keep in mind this analysis is as neutra" as possible for a fan of one certain character. I'll refuse to hit the hate-button and stay neutral for any characters.
Also this analysis may be a basis for a further project I'm currently planning.

Let's get this one done ...



How to read the analysis
========================================


The analysis consists of three parts:
- Pre-Coup Content
- Post-Coup Content
- Farewell Content


I think that makes sense the most since it removes some biased statements and allows a clearer view on the actual situation.

Also I'll give you a very short description for each character why I think so.


Part I - Pre-Coup Content
========================================


Contains:
- Escaping Earth
- Mars
- Palaven / Tuchanka plot
- Udina's coup


Liara
Hands down: Liara got some really powerful scenes here and is part of your squad for the rest of you game after you picked her up on Mars.
Most notable scenes are: "Time Capsule" and "Mars". Also you can rekindle / start a new romance with Liara in the first half of the game.
Only downside (for Liaramancers): some of Liara's most powerful scenes are not romance exclusive.
Also you can't really use Liara's influence as the Shadow Broker, which is another con.

Garrus
Do you lack a brother? Well, Garrus gives you a good idea how a brother or best friend should act. Garrus is Bioware's fave male character and it shows in numerous scenes throughout the entire game, not just in the first half.
Plenty of interaction between Garrus and Shepard and Garrus and rest of crew.

Tali
Not available in first half of the game.
Tali gets a similar treatment like in ME2: she's sidelined for half of the game but once she returns, her scenes are emotional and very powerful.

Ashley / Kaidan
Remember the VS fandom that claims Ash&Kaidan got a bad treatment? Well, that's not correct for the first half of the game. Although the VS gets removed after the Mars mission (their finest hour mission-wise), the romance buildup happens in the Huerta Hospital. There you can try to regain the VS' trust and if you imported a VS romance, you may get some extra stuff here.
Ashley and Kaidan have some of the most emotional scenes in the first part of the game.
Since the VS is not on board, you can't take him or her on missions.

Vega
Another "bro" for Shepard, if you like him. Vega and Garrus are similar in that field. He gets some good scenes and interacts the most with the rest of the crew. Also the relationship "Mentor - Pupil" between Shepard and Vega starts to blossom here.
You have some good interactions with him and he has decent lines on missions.

EDI
She's the fourth squadmate you can get permanently (given the fact Garrus survived ME2). I think her interaction is decent and she has some good lines too. I like the philosophical discussions with her and also enjoy her low social experience. In a way, she reminds me of Data of Star Trek.
The opportunities for interactions with her are good.

Javik
Since you can pick him up quite lately (I did it post-Coup), I won't go into details for now.

Traynor
For someone who never leaves the ship, Traynor has some great influence on the story - at least secondary plots like Grissom Academy and such. Also she has a lot of lines and her character slowly develops from "new girl" to "professional bridge officer".
Also flirty if you have a fem!Shep.

Cortez
Another non-squadmate. A good amount of interaction, but less than Traynor. You can start a romance with him quite early, if you have a male Shepard and want a gay romance.
Con: he moves on too easily from his dead husband - that topic is part of Cortez' character and appears -really- early.

Legion
Not available.

Grunt
If you miss his mission, you won't talk to him at all.

Samara / Morinth
Not available.

Wrex / Wreav
Well, regardless which one lives, as soon as you go to Sur'kesh, you have him on board until you used the cure (or sabotaged it). Wrex/Wreav is no squadmate but is part of your crew for a third of the game, which is far more than for most other sidelined characters.
Too bad neither one is a squadmate for that time. That's simply a huge con. Also Wrex/Wreav never leaves the War Room.

Mordin / Paddok
Mordin is one of very few characters from ME2, that still has some major influence on the main plot. He gets replaced by Paddok, in case he didn't survive ME2. Well ... Mordin is back. He's no squadmate but has all of his good lines again. And he dies like a hero - in most cases at least. Interaction is limited. At least he's part of the Normandy's crew as long as Wrex is.

Miranda, Jack
Miranda has some light influence on the main story. Besides that, her content is limited and reduces her to some emails and cameos throughout the entire game. At least her story kinda parallels Shepard's job and is tied to Cerberus and Sanctuary.
Romantic content is disappointing.
Also you can't really break up with her without killing her in the end. Evil.

Well. Jack can be missed if your refuse to do the Grissom Academy mission. She has no influence on the main story arc and the romantic content is -very- limited. For Jack fans, her appearance was disappointing.

Thane, Jacob
Thane dies like a boss - in battle. His romantic content is limited / barely noticable. Also disappointing.
However, Thane has some heavy influence on the outcome of the Coup (and therefore the main plot), so at least some justice was done to him.

Jacob ... well. I can't even remember if his mission was before or after the coup ...

Zaeed, Kasumi
They less lines TOGETHER than Ashley or Kaidan in ME2.
Disappointing.

Other
You can recruit Ken & Gabby for the crew. Adams has some lines. Allers can be recruited, contributes little to the game.
Anderson & Hackett play major parts here.
Kelly appears only if "romanced".


Part II - Post-Coup Content

========================================



Contains:
- Quarian plot
- Thessia
- Sanctuary
- Cerberus HQ


Liara
Liara gets some nice scenes in second half of ME3. Most prominent should be the scenes on Thessia and the comfort scene. Overall, her character feels pretty much complete here.
Same issue as in first part: scenes with a romantic undertone are also available to players who didn't romance Liara. Some Liaramancer are not found of that problem.
If you have Javik, she and him also have an amazing conversation.

Garrus
Not much to say here - Garrus is your bro.

Tali
Finally she returns. And Tali returns in force with some really good moments, even if not romanced. I simply like her. My personal favorite moment is the talk between Ashley and Tali on board of the dreadnaught, in my case it stays civilized since I didn't move on from Ash.
Also she has her drunken moment. Overall, I'm glad Tali is back and you have plenty of interactions with her. Of course, only if you saved the Quarians (and the Geth).

Ashley / Kaidan
After some great moments in the first half, the second half is a clear let down for both characters. Sure, the romance scenes are well done, but the lack of other content compared to other characters (Liara, Garrus, Vega) feels ... disturbing. Kaidan has two small scenes more than Ashley but receives the same treatment.
In a way it's disappointing since a lot of questions never got an answer like "what did happen the past two years" and such.
Also the VS does not pay a visit in Shepard's cabin like some others do.

Vega
Again, Vega is your bro, like Garrus. Visits Shepard once in the cabin and has a great talk about N7.

EDI
I think her interactions are little less than in the first half, mostly 'cause her romance with Joker kicked in (or got totally avoided). Her best scenes happen on board of the Cerberus HQ station.

Javik
Once you have him recruited, Javik turns out to be a really awesome character. Named the "Spacetroll" because of his unique view on the situation, he's simply well written with plenty of interaction and such. For a DLC character (which, technically, isn't right since he was originally planned for the vanilla game) he gets a lot of interactions. He also interacts with ALL major squadmates - with one exception: the VS is only mentioned.

Traynor
Like in part 1 + romance. A very well done non-squadmate character with plenty of interactions.

Cortez
Less interactions than Traynor. He's a bit reduced to his romance only and doesn't pay a single visit in Shepard's cabin.

Legion
He's back. For a short while, and you get a mission dedicated to him and the Geth. You can't avoid his death: either he sacrifices himself or gets killed. Too little interaction, but at least some impact on the main plot.

Grunt
Not available.

Samara / Morinth
One mission, few lines, that's it. But only if you have Samara. Morinth ends as Banshee.
Disappointing. Any romance isn't even mentioned.

Wrex / Wreav
No longer available.

Mordin / Padok
Well, I don't know if you can keep Mordin in case he survived Tuchanka, but if not, consider him as "no longer available".

Miranda, Jack
Jack's no longer mentioned except you didn' do the Grissom Academy mission. In that case she returns as Phantom.
Miranda's story gets its conclusion in the Sanctuary mission. She either dies or survives that mission. You get a touching dialogue if she dies and was your LI.

Thane, Jacob
Gone. Both of them.

Zaeed, Kasumi
Gone. Both of them.

Other
Gabby & Ken may hook up.
Hackett plays a bigger role.


Part III - Farewell Content

========================================



Contains:
- Return to Earth
- Farewell
- Post-Finale


Liara
"The Gift". Powerful scene. Again it's a scene with a romantic undertone, even if you did not romance Liara. However, Shepard feels like a jerk if refusing the gift, so unless you really hate Liara, there's no way to not accept.

Garrus
"Meet me at the bar". Do you really need to know more? 

Tali
Tbh, I can't remember much interaction ...

Ashley / Kaidan
This. After an awful long time without much interaction, you get slapped by maybe the second most powerful moment in the game. At least that's the case for Ashley - I don't know about Kaidan yet.

Vega
Again, he has a good moment.

EDI
Philosophical debatte ends here, in a really good way. EDI is as human as any real human ...

Javik
Mr. Spacetroll has a heart. I like his final conversation, about his future. He finally believes in an era following the Reapers and wants to see the galaxy before he dies.

Wrex / Wreav
Has not much to say to Shepard. Disappointing, after all the stuff both went through.

Other
Hackett & Anderson only. Anderson plays a big role in the last moments of the game.
Everyone not mentioned can be contacted via com.


Conclusion

========================================



Well, when I started writing that stuff I had something better in my mind. It's difficult to make a full analysis for ALL characters (it may result in a 10k-word posting no one wants to read. So I had to reduce it to very few statements.

Liara, Garrus and Vega got most content, followed by Traynor, Tali, Kaidan and Ashley.
Out of the ME2 squad, only Mordin has some real impact on the story and enough screen time too. Thane has impact too, besides that, the influence of the ME2 squad on the story is limited, if at all.

Jacob, Morinth, Samara, Kasumi, Zaeed and Kelly got an awful treatment, even compared against the rest of the ME2 squad. Grunt and Jack got a bit more stuff but their missions can be missed too easily. In case of Jack she returns as Phantom - which is basically the same treatment like Morinth got.

Now since I wrote all that stuff down, I may use it for a future project.


Thoughts?

Modifié par CptData, 09 mai 2012 - 11:30 .


#2
CptData

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Update:


Content added ^^

#3
DirtySHISN0

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Few bits i got after skimming. There is dialogue if you romanced Samara in ME2, but its only 1 line said differently when you meet her on the citadel (assuming you saved her).

And if you refuse Ashley/Kaidan the chance to return to the normandy after the coup (which i think is infinitely more insulting than killing them) you don't get any dialogue with them after that point, not even on the comm thing at the end (and you don't get Ashley's memorial thing).

As for my thoughts, I'm totally ambivalent about Javik.



+ how do you get ken and gabby to interact?  i get them as early as possible and the only thing they talk about is when adams wants to install that safety measure.

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 09 mai 2012 - 11:51 .


#4
JamesS.

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I agree completely except that Kaidan didn't get more scenes... I done both romances, I made a male shep just to see Ashley romance and they got same amount. Did you miss any of the her scenes by any chance?

#5
CptData

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Enigma1322 wrote...

I agree completely except that Kaidan didn't get more scenes... I done both romances, I made a male shep just to see Ashley romance and they got same amount. Did you miss any of the her scenes by any chance?


Well, I know Kaidan interacts with Vega at some point (poker table).

Ashley gets a "hidden scene" if you do the bomb mission AFTER Udina's coup, but besides that ... hmmm:

- Memorial
- Drunken scene
- Date
- long void of nothing
- Romantic climax
- Farewell

I think that's all of it.
Compared against the content of first half of the game, Ash / Kaidan have little in the second half.

#6
Dannycni

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Very good analysis, I'd say you've got it spot on for basically all the characters. Pity that in the 3rd game the character content isn't nearly as good as in the previous ones cause it was a characteristic of the game I loved

#7
Priisus

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Still on the fence whether you should separate Kaidan and Ashley. As for Ash' secret scene, is it in the Normandy and do you actually have a real dialogue with her (not Zaeed style I mean)? All I get from Kaidan if you do the bomb mission after the coup is just the dialogue about Ash in the shuttle on the way back. Is this similar to Ash?

Kasumi gets slightly more content than Zaeed imo. She is really involved in the Hanar Diplomat mission... while Zaeed did not even get the chance to punch the Volus Ambassador... He basically only just talks... and then nothing.

@ Dirty: Ken and Gabby only interacts if you are tied in "good friends" status with Ash... so if you don't have Ash in the Normandy for any reason then you're out of luck.

#8
JamesS.

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CptData wrote...

Enigma1322 wrote...

I agree completely except that Kaidan didn't get more scenes... I done both romances, I made a male shep just to see Ashley romance and they got same amount. Did you miss any of the her scenes by any chance?


Well, I know Kaidan interacts with Vega at some point (poker table).

Ashley gets a "hidden scene" if you do the bomb mission AFTER Udina's coup, but besides that ... hmmm:

- Memorial
- Drunken scene
- Date
- long void of nothing
- Romantic climax
- Farewell

I think that's all of it.
Compared against the content of first half of the game, Ash / Kaidan have little in the second half.




Ahh I see, sorry I thought you meant cutscenes. Yeah Kaidan does move around more than Ashley, that's true.

The vs did get okay content in the first half and you wrote above its mostly the second half they are forgotten about. Too bad, just one or two more cutscenes in the second half would make so much improvement.

#9
DirtySHISN0

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Priisus wrote...
@ Dirty: Ken and Gabby only interacts if you are tied in "good friends" status with Ash... so if you don't have Ash in the Normandy for any reason then you're out of luck.


Balls. I always get rid of the virmire survivor in some way. Ah well fair trade.

#10
CptData

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Enigma1322 wrote...

Ahh I see, sorry I thought you meant cutscenes. Yeah Kaidan does move around more than Ashley, that's true.

The vs did get okay content in the first half and you wrote above its mostly the second half they are forgotten about. Too bad, just one or two more cutscenes in the second half would make so much improvement.


Well, that already scratches the "project" I have in my mind.

I think Ash & Kaidan just need one (!) more big scene - and that's a comfort scene after Thessia. Liara should keep hers, however, Shepard also needs some comfort too. In case Liara is not the LI but the VS, the VS should do the comfort part. They did already in ME1, so it fits to them in ME3 as well.
That comfort scene should happen in Shepard's cabin, so the VS pays a visit there too (except romantic climax scene).

Besides that, I think Ash & Kaidan just need more lines when Zaeed-style talking to them and more interaction with the crew. Actually, I can see both as Shepard's XOs - they should hang out in the CIC more frequently ^^

#11
JamesS.

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Yes why does the vs not visit sheps cabin? It's not fair. It feels as though that bioware had lots of great ideas but that their money ran out so they chose to focus on their favorites like Liara and Garrus. A comfort scene with the Li would have been more realistic.

#12
BP93

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Enigma1322 wrote...

Yes why does the vs not visit sheps cabin? It's not fair. It feels as though that bioware had lots of great ideas but that their money ran out so they chose to focus on their favorites like Liara and Garrus. A comfort scene with the Li would have been more realistic.


Oh I know that's one of the things that annoyed me a lot. You can invite that hag Allers up two or three different times but not your VS? <_<