I just dont get it, I think its great. Could someone tell me or give a link where it clearly explains why Synthesis is the worst thing ever?
The short versions like "Its genetical rape" "Its forced" are not welcomed, I heard most of those and i'm not fully convinced by them. It is forced, but its a good thing, noone is hurt, only made better. Its just killing me, I really want a good explanation why is it bad.
Its the next step in evolution, it has many benefits, its basically making every single organic better in some way. I'm not saying Synthesis makes everyone perfect and it may have its own flaws, but its presented as something that has no downsides - a race without flaws of organics and synthetics.
Why everyone hate Synthesis so much?
Débuté par
EvilMind
, mai 09 2012 09:22
Retour en haut
#2
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 09:27
Eain
-
- Members
- 1 501 messages
Beyond the moral problems, how does it work? We have a universe with an established way of doing things. Most forms of magic have some sort of pseudoscience to explain them. You've got your eezo, your mass effect (they named the series after it) your thanix cannons and so forth. We understand how all these things work.
How does synthesis work, and why? It feels like something taken from another setting. Why does Joker have green glowing circuitry? What exactly happened? How do you merge synthetic and organic life into a new DNA? Synthetic life is just steel and rubber and fibre optics and coolant. Just because Shepard has some cybernatics grafted into her body doesn't mean that some magical beam can spontaneously spawn even better cybernetics in the bodies of other people. Also did the Geth get organic parts? Are their flashlight heads now fleshlight heads? (ololololo that's horrible).
Seriously, how does it work? Nobody knows. Does it only affect people who've been hit by the green wave? If yes, then are there still regular organics and synthetics out there or did the wave hit everything? If there are, then doesn't the Reaper cycle still have a purpose? Also did we become allies to the Reapers, like their people? They just fly off in the synthesis ending going "oh would you look at that they've suddenly become the same as us, well that's mighty convenient."
Nobody understands anything about synthesis, because it makes no sense.
How does synthesis work, and why? It feels like something taken from another setting. Why does Joker have green glowing circuitry? What exactly happened? How do you merge synthetic and organic life into a new DNA? Synthetic life is just steel and rubber and fibre optics and coolant. Just because Shepard has some cybernatics grafted into her body doesn't mean that some magical beam can spontaneously spawn even better cybernetics in the bodies of other people. Also did the Geth get organic parts? Are their flashlight heads now fleshlight heads? (ololololo that's horrible).
Seriously, how does it work? Nobody knows. Does it only affect people who've been hit by the green wave? If yes, then are there still regular organics and synthetics out there or did the wave hit everything? If there are, then doesn't the Reaper cycle still have a purpose? Also did we become allies to the Reapers, like their people? They just fly off in the synthesis ending going "oh would you look at that they've suddenly become the same as us, well that's mighty convenient."
Nobody understands anything about synthesis, because it makes no sense.
Modifié par Eain, 09 mai 2012 - 09:28 .
#3
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 09:28
Ownaholic
-
- Members
- 269 messages
Unfortunately I only briefly touch upon this in my documentary (link in sig), so it would constitute as a "short answer", but the biggest problem I have with it is that it is basically just the Reapers (and other Synthetics) piggybacking on Organics.
There has been no evidence of the transaction benefiting Organics in any way, as shown by Joker still having physical problems in the final planet scene thing.
There's more to it than that, that I also briefly touch upon, but hopefully it will be good enough of an answer for you.
Honestly, I think the BIGGEST problem people have with it, but never talk about, is because of the simple fact that it makes no sense, has no basis in the ME lore, was never hinted at, and doesn't offer any type of substantial or effective ending (like the rest).
Just my 2 cents.
There has been no evidence of the transaction benefiting Organics in any way, as shown by Joker still having physical problems in the final planet scene thing.
There's more to it than that, that I also briefly touch upon, but hopefully it will be good enough of an answer for you.
Honestly, I think the BIGGEST problem people have with it, but never talk about, is because of the simple fact that it makes no sense, has no basis in the ME lore, was never hinted at, and doesn't offer any type of substantial or effective ending (like the rest).
Just my 2 cents.
#4
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 09:28
ZombieChad
-
- Members
- 142 messages
Firstly it's not evolution. It's not a natural process. It is enforced modification. Here's a copy/paste of a previous copy/paste. I can dig out another one from somewhere if you want.
The only source for decision making is Reaper-One who claims responsibility for the whole mess in the first place and all of it's decisions are based on the idea that Synthetics will destroy organics at the first opportunity. Its already stated that the Geth have outpaced organic species in several areas but by and large (except for the Heretics) chose isolation to avoid unnecessary conflict. It's case goes against existing evidence that points towards the fact that AI's can work (and work well) with Organics. It's not the merging of man and machines, if stable cyberware and bioware were available tomorrow I'd augment myself. I found it disgusting that I (well Shepard) would force my (their) choice upon all the species of the Galaxy regardless of any cultural, intellectual or personal beliefs. Then also there is nothing really to stop new synthetics being made anyway unless somehow non-organic materials become semi-alive structures with this new DNA and become sapient life when assembled in a particular way. I find that more than a little creepy.
Destroy breaks the cycle as the Reapers are dead. Whilst this also takes the Geth, EDI and Shep it imposes nothing upon the survivors of the Reaper War instead opening the way for life to truly continue it's evolution and isn't based on the flawed idea that synthetics WILL turn on Organics. Whilst the Organic/Synthetic relationship is hardly friendly at first it’s only like when the Humans and Turians first butted heads during the First Contact War where the Turian's though asteroid drops were fair play to kill a single fire team of Alliance Soldiers.
The only source for decision making is Reaper-One who claims responsibility for the whole mess in the first place and all of it's decisions are based on the idea that Synthetics will destroy organics at the first opportunity. Its already stated that the Geth have outpaced organic species in several areas but by and large (except for the Heretics) chose isolation to avoid unnecessary conflict. It's case goes against existing evidence that points towards the fact that AI's can work (and work well) with Organics. It's not the merging of man and machines, if stable cyberware and bioware were available tomorrow I'd augment myself. I found it disgusting that I (well Shepard) would force my (their) choice upon all the species of the Galaxy regardless of any cultural, intellectual or personal beliefs. Then also there is nothing really to stop new synthetics being made anyway unless somehow non-organic materials become semi-alive structures with this new DNA and become sapient life when assembled in a particular way. I find that more than a little creepy.
Destroy breaks the cycle as the Reapers are dead. Whilst this also takes the Geth, EDI and Shep it imposes nothing upon the survivors of the Reaper War instead opening the way for life to truly continue it's evolution and isn't based on the flawed idea that synthetics WILL turn on Organics. Whilst the Organic/Synthetic relationship is hardly friendly at first it’s only like when the Humans and Turians first butted heads during the First Contact War where the Turian's though asteroid drops were fair play to kill a single fire team of Alliance Soldiers.
#5
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 09:30
JBPBRC
-
- Members
- 3 444 messages
Eain wrote...
Beyond the moral problems, how does it work? We have a universe with an established way of doing things. Most forms of magic have some sort of pseudoscience to explain them. You've got your eezo, your mass effect (they named the series after it) your thanix cannons and so forth. We understand how all these things work.
How does synthesis work, and why? It feels like something taken from another setting.
That's because it is.
#6
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 09:31
moater boat
-
- Members
- 1 213 messages
Are you suggesting that it is ok to force people to do something as long as you, personally, don't see a downside? Do you realize how much of an **** that makes you?
#7
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 09:32
EnvyTB075
-
- Members
- 3 108 messages
"Why everyone hate Synthesis so much?"
Because its complete and utter bollocks every way you look at it.
Because its complete and utter bollocks every way you look at it.
#8
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 09:33
MordicaiBlack
-
- Members
- 72 messages
EvilMind wrote...
It is forced, but its a good thing, noone is hurt, only made better.
that line alone tells me you don't get it, no one not even shepard has the right to just decide the very nature of life for all, the sheer arrogance of the choice is what offends me the most
#9
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 09:34
d-boy15
-
- Members
- 1 642 messages
1. do what the reaper want, compromise with them.
2. gamble on enemy solution (he's not garuntee it will success too)
3. the reaper are still around.
although, you think just because it's good people will accept and like it?
2. gamble on enemy solution (he's not garuntee it will success too)
3. the reaper are still around.
although, you think just because it's good people will accept and like it?
#10
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 09:35
richard_rider
-
- Members
- 450 messages
Because there's no such thing as final evolution, and if there was, it's counterproductive to organic life. Because it's morally repugnant, because it's space magic, because that's the reapers goal, because not one person has the right to modify life on a galactic scale...pick one
#11
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 09:36
tilusN7
-
- Members
- 325 messages
Physically impossible. Morally questionable, and thematically horrible.
#12
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 09:38
Barquiel
-
- Members
- 5 848 messages
It's stupid space magic, it contradicts one of the core themes of the series, it's Shepard "playing god" and it will not solve anything.
#13
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 09:45
Pacellio2
-
- Members
- 64 messages
Plus its just stupid...if you make everyone into both theirs no reason to think why these new organic/synthetic beings wont make something purely organic or purely synthetic. Plus Joker's hat now has green glowing circutry? As well as the leaves? Plus they refer to it as the pinnacle of evolution which that in itself is unattainable. We are constantly adapting in an ever changing universe. For that to be even remotely possible everything would have to become static which would never happen...plus it is genetic rape.
Modifié par Pacellio2, 09 mai 2012 - 09:46 .
#14
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 09:49
Peranor
-
- Members
- 4 003 messages
In the leaked ending I believe that the synthesis ending was labeled "one with the reapers" (or similar) in the code.
I think that shows BioWares intentions with synthesis and why I stay away from it
And the morality of it aside I think that synthesis is the most ridiculous ending as well. It's just so silly and involves the most space magic of the endings. That reason alone is enough for me to stay away from it.
I don't know what they where smoking when they wrote the synthesis ending, but I want in on it!
I think that shows BioWares intentions with synthesis and why I stay away from it
And the morality of it aside I think that synthesis is the most ridiculous ending as well. It's just so silly and involves the most space magic of the endings. That reason alone is enough for me to stay away from it.
I don't know what they where smoking when they wrote the synthesis ending, but I want in on it!
#15
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 09:52
EvilMind
-
- Members
- 120 messages
d-boy15 wrote...
although, you think just because it's good people will accept and like it?
I actually do. Call me the moral freak, but if some "Casper the friendly ghost" came over to me and offered magically heal all diseases or solve problem of hunger, i'd say force that mother f***er on everyone and spare noone.
It is true that its completely unexplained how Synthesis works and I see why everyone would hate it for that. But i'm not bothered by moral side of the question, dunno maybe i'm f***ed up:O
#17
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 09:54
Wildecker
-
- Members
- 428 messages
For three games I've been fighting so that humans (and aliens) can make their own choices, no matter how dumb they may turn out to be. I would in no way object to the Reapers if they just showed up and offered: "Hey? We offer members of your race the chance to become one of us, essentially immortal, a living monument to the glory of your race. Volunteers only."
However, they don't, so I'm fighting against them. And now the Catalyst suggests I force my solution down the throat of every living being in the galaxy, Human, Salarian, Asari, Turian, Geth, Quarian, Krogan, Vorcha, Yahg ... and anybody else who may still be millions of years away from sentience. Do tigers, sharks and turtles become part synthetic, too? What about oak trees and daisies?
Destroy: I kill every Reaper, the Geth and EDI. A pity if the destruction cannot be directed any better, and I will feel sorry for Legion's people and EDI. Provided I survive to feel sorry.
Control: I shoulder the burden of reining in the Reapers, maybe later making amends for what they did before I took over. But unlike the Illusive Man I'm not prone to send out the Squids of War if anyone cracks a bad joke at a human, anywhere ...
Synthesis? "Hey! I brought you the best of both worlds! Aren't you deliriously happy and oh so grateful? And what do you mean, 'I'd much prefer if you had asked for my opinion on the subject and respected it before you made me part machine ...' ?"
There are people who resent blood transfers on grounds of religious belief, let alone organ transplants. Do you think Synthesis will make them happy?
However, they don't, so I'm fighting against them. And now the Catalyst suggests I force my solution down the throat of every living being in the galaxy, Human, Salarian, Asari, Turian, Geth, Quarian, Krogan, Vorcha, Yahg ... and anybody else who may still be millions of years away from sentience. Do tigers, sharks and turtles become part synthetic, too? What about oak trees and daisies?
Destroy: I kill every Reaper, the Geth and EDI. A pity if the destruction cannot be directed any better, and I will feel sorry for Legion's people and EDI. Provided I survive to feel sorry.
Control: I shoulder the burden of reining in the Reapers, maybe later making amends for what they did before I took over. But unlike the Illusive Man I'm not prone to send out the Squids of War if anyone cracks a bad joke at a human, anywhere ...
Synthesis? "Hey! I brought you the best of both worlds! Aren't you deliriously happy and oh so grateful? And what do you mean, 'I'd much prefer if you had asked for my opinion on the subject and respected it before you made me part machine ...' ?"
There are people who resent blood transfers on grounds of religious belief, let alone organ transplants. Do you think Synthesis will make them happy?
#18
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 09:55
ZIPO396
-
- Members
- 423 messages
EvilMind wrote...
I just dont get it, I think its great. Could someone tell me or give a link where it clearly explains why Synthesis is the worst thing ever?
The short versions like "Its genetical rape" "Its forced" are not welcomed, I heard most of those and i'm not fully convinced by them. It is forced, but its a good thing, noone is hurt, only made better. Its just killing me, I really want a good explanation why is it bad.
Its the next step in evolution, it has many benefits, its basically making every single organic better in some way. I'm not saying Synthesis makes everyone perfect and it may have its own flaws, but its presented as something that has no downsides - a race without flaws of organics and synthetics.
It also comes with it's own logical plot hole no one seems to notice. The Child thinks this will stop us organics creating synthetics that will wipe us out. Whats to stop the new hybrids from creating synthetics that then go on a killer rampage and wipe out all life as he fears and why he devised the cycle to begin with. But yes it's also just morally messed up. It's also just a different looking form of basically what the Reapers do. And what will vegitarians and vegans eat? They can't eat plants as they're now alive to mixed with that synthetic mess that it is.
Modifié par ZIPO396, 09 mai 2012 - 09:58 .
#19
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 09:56
Elyiia
-
- Members
- 1 568 messages
EvilMind wrote...
d-boy15 wrote...
although, you think just because it's good people will accept and like it?
I actually do. Call me the moral freak, but if some "Casper the friendly ghost" came over to me and offered magically heal all diseases or solve problem of hunger, i'd say force that mother f***er on everyone and spare noone.
It is true that its completely unexplained how Synthesis works and I see why everyone would hate it for that. But i'm not bothered by moral side of the question, dunno maybe i'm f***ed up:O
Imagine your situation, but Hitler (Woo Godwin's Law) was the one who offered. It changes things, doesn't it?
#20
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 09:56
Ultra Prism
-
- Members
- 1 456 messages
I don't want to play God and evolve everyone with new hybrid DNA .... who I am to make that call. Yes it resolves the problem, thats perfect utopia situation that just doesn't exist or unless you reach technology singularity
#21
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 09:58
CrazyRah
-
- Members
- 13 282 messages
tilusN7 wrote...
Physically impossible. Morally questionable, and thematically horrible.
In short this is a good summary of what i think
#22
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 09:59
Eain
-
- Members
- 1 501 messages
Cribbian wrote...
"No soul, replaced by tech" - Mordin
Well admittedly I always thought that was a silly line anyway. Souls don't exist, so tech can't make them disappear.
#23
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 10:01
Gen Petitt
-
- Members
- 1 086 messages
Because synthesis is an idea acting like Hitler by creating a "master race" and I am an Aspie he tried to kill my kind! What it is doing is supporting the "anti-Christ" ideals he had by trying to make everyone "perfect".
Modifié par Gen Petitt, 09 mai 2012 - 10:04 .
#24
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 10:03
Catastrophy
-
- Members
- 8 479 messages
Why would you require new DNA for "Synthesis" if all you need is tolerance and understanding? DNA rather points to hybrid creatures (like reaper ground troops?) enhanced for interfacing to each other. Yea, and make that brain a better processor - and better storage - why not get rid of the glands and stuff altogether, it's unhygienic anyway. And sexual intercourse? Scrap this inefficient way of procreation as well.
#25
Posté 09 mai 2012 - 10:03
ZombieChad
-
- Members
- 142 messages
EvilMind wrote...
d-boy15 wrote...
although, you think just because it's good people will accept and like it?
I actually do. Call me the moral freak, but if some "Casper the friendly ghost" came over to me and offered magically heal all diseases or solve problem of hunger, i'd say force that mother f***er on everyone and spare noone.
I showed my partner the ending and she hated Synthesis without understanding the Mass Effect galaxy "What right do you have to make that choice?" was her question. Then "What the hell are those glowing bits" and it turns out she finds the idea repugnant of cybernetic enhancement. So there's one persons reaction with no prompting.
As for solving all diseases it never states that. If anything it leaves us more susceptible diseases as we now have something in common that makes a convenient bridge for a virus to jump the species gap quickly and effectively.
As for solving hunger, it never states that. If anything we'll still need fuel to run, whether in addition to ingesting things normally (which may count as a cannibalism as we're all the same) we need batteries or occasionally plugging in is left up in the air.
If someone forced Synthesis on me and was still around the first test my new augmented form would get would be breaking their nose for stripping me of my choice.
I mean this is the friendlist possible way but wake up and smell what you're shovelling.
