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Why everyone hate Synthesis so much?


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#151
Aiyie

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kookie28 wrote...

Reading through the reasoning for why Synthesis is "evil" is like watching Fox News about Obama.

I feel sorry for you Ieldra. It's gotta be like arguing with a wall.


not to derail this thread... but just a head's up... but watch some recordings from MSNBC from 6 or 8 years ago, then watch a recent clip from FOX...

only difference is who the talking head's are and who they're talking about.

Biased media is biased, on both sides.

if you only watch one, and form your opinion of the other based off of that... then you are being conditioned, pure and simple.

anyone who forms an opinion based off the first thing they see, without giving the opposition equal consideration prior to forming their opinion, is just ignorant and biased.

and before it starts, nowhere in there did i happen to say, or even allude to, which side i happen to support, so please keep any ill-informed comments telling me which side i support to yourselves.  thank you.

#152
Peranor

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frylock23 wrote...


We're all individuals and even genetically identical individuals are different as evidenced from their different experiences -> their nuture.

Difference is the root of conflict.


So the only way that Star Brat's synthesis works is if it also removes freewill by forcing everyone to be the same in more than just the fundamental but also in the behavioral.


^This
Synthesis will never work. It could never work in the long run.

#153
MASSEFFECTfanforlife101

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It disrupts the fabric of existences.:( Everyone everywhere slowly becomes a cyborg. This so called "Evolution" shouldn't happen so damn fast. ANNND....I don't like the idea of being dead, leaving my Love Interest to unwillingly become a cyborg.:(

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 09 mai 2012 - 04:18 .


#154
knightnblu

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I have answered this query many times in the forums, but I will do so once again because you have asked. First, the synthesis option is an abomination. The essence of any organic being is that person's DNA. Your genetic code is what makes you uniquely you. If your genetic code is known, then each and every cell in your body can be identified as belonging to you. In this way, it is your very essence because everything that comprises you can be traced back to it. Everything that is related to you can be traced back to it.
 
If the violation of the physical self (rape) is wrong, then what do you call the violation of the essence of the self? Would that not be a far greater violation? Does not that violation go far deeper than the violation of the physical because it touches everything that you are, that you can produce (your children), and it impacts all of your relationships (family). Therefore, it is a far more pervasive and abhorrent violation of the individual.
 
I say violation because Shepard never asks "should I do this," much less consults with the races before he pulls the trigger. He never questions the integrity of the person who until 10 minutes ago was trying desperately to kill him and the galaxy and for the record, I don't buy that "harvesting" crap either. Saying that you are preserving organics by telling me that you have preserved their genetic encoding is parallel to saying you saved water because you have broken it down into its base elemental components. But I digress.
 
Imagine if you will, that you have just been so violated. Your genetic code has been re-written and now everything has changed. You can see circuit tracings in you skin, your eyes glow with a soft light, and everybody around you is in the same predicament courtesy of a sharp, green light wave washing over everything. The shock is momentarily broken when you hear a scream from a woman who believes she is living a nightmare and that is just the beginning. Are you beginning to see the problems with this solution?
 
You are witness to the beginning of the end of the races. The first step was the transition from organic to cyborg. The next step comes when you interbreed with every other cyborg in the galaxy. Synthetic beings are also adversely effected. The Geth who were once synthetic have now been re-written with DNA that makes them cyborgs as well with the introduction of organic components. Ever wanted to make it with the office copier? Well, now you can. Congratulations.
 
This is because everything is now encoded with DNA. Did you see the tree leaves with the circuit tracings at the end of the synthesis option when the Normandy crash landed? If all matter were not re-created with DNA, then one could presumably create pure synthetics again and if that is so, then what was the point of synthesis again?
 
With a re-written reality where everything has DNA, that would by definition mean that DNA encoding has grown orders of magnitude more complex to account for each and every element and their combinations. Of course, your flesh would have been changed to reflect your brand new DNA and that presents a whole host of other possibilities. Don't like what your ex did to you in that messy divorce? Hack her! She's part synthetic isn't she? Jack in and cause her all manner of consternation. Boss didn't give you a good performance review? Hack him! People have hacked cell phones, computers, uploaded viruses and worms, you have to know that is coming as a result of this change. Maybe Kelly did bring the Varren STD aboard Normandy, maybe she didn't, but with compatible DNA she might have had puppies if she had been re-written with the synthesis option.
 
Because your flesh has been altered to match you new genetics, nobody knows what changes the newly introduced synthetics have introduced. Remember the assault on the derelict Reaper back in ME2? Recall Mordin's words regarding the Collectors? They had no art, no philosophy, no digestive system, overworked neural pathways were replaced by tech, and no soul because it was replaced by tech. Because of synthesis, we may now know how the original Collectors felt. I'll bet that they weren't smiling about it.
 
Do you still like what you did before you were forcibly changed into a cyborg? Do you still enjoy previous hobbies? Do you still love mom and dad? Your brothers and sisters? The problem is, how do you know if you would or wouldn't? How do we know that synthesis didn't alter thought patterns as well as our flesh? Perhaps peace comes from our identities being re-written to accept the truth of the Reapers. All reality is virtual to a synthetic mind and the catalyst was certainly that. What's one reality compared to another for him? Isn't his stated objective to eliminate the chaos? Does he really care how that comes about? He freely admits that his solution is no longer viable, but did you notice that he also never calls off his dogs?
 
It is that implied threat that is intended to compel Shepard to make a choice. I don't know about you, but I tend not to trust folks who level a gun to my head. Further, he takes the form of the child that Shepard watched die and has been haunting him since that day. Why? Because he wants Shepard to trust him. He takes that form out of crass manipulation. So if home slice is being coercive and manipulative with Shepard, why do we trust that he has our best interests at heart? Are those not the actions of those who have their own best interests at heart?
 
Then there are the ethical problems with the synthesis option. What gives Shepard the right to make such a huge decision for the races of the galaxy? He never asked them what they wanted. He never bothers to consult with them and he has a working radio as evidenced by the previous conversation with Hackett. But he never uses it. He can't say that it was the only choice, because there were two other choices right next to him. So what gives Shepard the moral authority to alter the DNA of the entire galaxy? Is he God? Was he appointed the Emperor of the galaxy or something? He also cannot say that if you don't like it you can always go back, because you cannot. The change is irreversible.
 
For the Arrival DLC Shepard could argue that he saved a lot more than was lost. But wouldn't the destruction choice have done that? The control choice would have saved even more. The only answer to what moral authority Shepard had to change the essence of every living thing in the galaxy is none whatsoever. He just spit balled it for S&G (Sh@#s and giggles).
 
While one could argue the "but I thought..." defense, they would be wrong and they are wrong because they never thought it through. They just thought that everybody would be happy and sing Kumbaya by the campfire for eternity holding hands and swaying to the beat. There is no ethical basis for the synthesis option and there is great harm that results from it and that harm is the deepest that one could inflict upon another because it disregards the individual and what makes that person who they are and defines their relationships to their fellows. It is horrific and there are many, including myself, that would prefer death to that scenario as it is a fate worse than death in my estimation.
 
That is what I find vile about the synthesis option.

#155
Ieldra

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aj2070 wrote...

EvilMind wrote...

When we cure genophage, isn't that too 'genetic rape' and 'forced'? What if Synthesis also cured some diseases, would then it be okay? Draw a line for me please.


If anything, curing the genophage is correcting "genetic rape" commited by the salarians.  Mordin says so much in Mass Effect 2 and 3; more in 3.  This is Mordin's whole motivation.  In fact, I would argue the genophage is a microcosim of why synthesis is wrong.  It is a "solution" forced on a species from an outside source with no thought of what the consequences would be.  If Shepard in fact cures the genophage, it makes the synthesis option more repugnant in my opinion.

Bah, there is no natural right to have as many children as you want. The genophage prevents population explosion but doesn't reduce reproduction below what's necessary to sustain the population. It is a good thing.

#156
Naerivar

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ZombieChad wrote...


Sorry it took so long to reply, lost connection then accidentally my original reply without posting like a muppet.

What source says the Geth and EDI are all dead? The Catalyst or a source I've missed? If it's The Catalyst, why do you trust it? It started the entire mess in the first place. As two of its apparent victims are still around. (Shep and EDI) Why should the Geth be any different?

The point on Ruthless Calculus should be intrinsically tied to your decision, as it isn't made in a little bubble devoid from the rest of the plot. The galaxy is burning as a race of AI dreadnoughts slaughter and corrupt everything they can get their grubby little mits on. This war is unprecedented (at least in our cycle) in scale and level of deaths. Instead of armies mobilising species are mobilising, it's the Total War concept taken to the next level. The Geth like everyone else joined Shepard as they are prepared to die rather than submit to the Old Machines. Turian's and Krogan are allies (WTF!), even the Asari are getting off their asses. The Salarian Dalatresses are begrudgingly helping whilst STG are flooding in droves... and so on and so on....

So what right does Shepard have? The right of the chief opponent of the Reapers and a military officer. The scale is horrifically different but ultimately it's ordering a unit's (read: species) death so that more unit's (read: species) survive. War doesn't allow for normal moral choices as it is far from a normal situation and even further from morals.

I would say then that she is is more empowered to destroy the Reapers regardless of cost than she is to choose Control or Synthesis. Each and every ally signed up to kill the Reapers. None signed up to give Control to Shepard or suddenly sprout metal bits or organic bits.  They all wanted their own future. The Geth are the price tag on that goal and it's bloody high, but they have already stated they want nothing to do with the Reapers. I reckon teleporting bits into them and surgically/mechanically grafting them onto them is liable to ****** them off. Personally, though the Geth are AI they are still logic driven and I think that any Geth would've happily flipped the Destroy switch/shot tube despite their own death as they would recognise that their sacrifice gives the galaxy back to it's surviving inhabitants as well as disproving the Catalyst's logic.  The deaths of the Geth are tragic casualties of war just like every other species the Reaper's have claimed through countless cycles and every other individual in this cycle. I think a fundamental difference in our thoughts behind the endings is that I feel the responsibility for every death and extinction, including the geth, belongs not with Shepard nor anyone else but the Catalyst and Reapers for it's flawed assumptions about all AI and it's even more broken plan to fix it.

So that leaves us at Synthesis where you're relying on their good will not to change their mind (and ties into the point that new synthetics can be made anyway)   Destroy on the other hand ends the threat very permanently unless the long hinted at stuff from Bioware is "Mass Effect: Reaper Zombie Multiplayer Mode".

You are right that the choice is the lesser of 3 evils but I'll choose the death of the Geth to get the better future for those who come afterwards without any chance of Reaper influence thanks.


Well, of course, for any endings to make sense we have to take the brat's word for granted. If we doubted his every word we'd be totally ****ed because we wouldn't even know which option would be destroy/control or synthesis.

If Shepard has the right (or has been given the right) to choose for the extinction of an entire specie, then she also has the right to choose synthesis. Yes, there might be a ****load of problems with it. But unless it takes away your free will (which I don't elieve it does, husks and synthesized organics are two totally different things in my book) life is preferable to death.

We don't know what conclusion the Geth would reach. They may choose extinction above synthesis. But I personally wouldn't.This is the same problem I had with Garrus wanting to shoot Dr Saleon's shuttje way back in ME1. He states that he'd rather be dead than be a monster with extra organs growing in them. And I'd agree. But we can't actually make that decision for them, we don't have that right.

Now, all the other races trust shepard to make the right decisions, true. But preparing for a last ditch attempt, willing to die if it could help, that is one thing. But knowing, from the start, that you will not survive the fight, just because someone is going to take the destroy option... I don't think that would sit well with everybody, even geth.

Of course they don't know what would happen. It shows that while you could trust someone enough to take a chance to die for them, it's totally different if you know you will die, no matter what. And only because Shepard chose destroy rather than synthesis.

You can't really prepare for such a choice. And therefore you can't actually give your trust rightfully. And as such Shepard can't have the right to do it (destroy). Or you just waltz over everything I said, but then you have to accept that Synthesis is also an option which shepard has the right to choose.

in some sense the ultimate responsibility lays with the Catalys, true. If a murder tells me to choose whether person A or B has to die, or if I don't choose he chooses he'll kill an entire village. I am not responsible for any death. Except maybe the entire village because I could have prevented that.

And shepard can prevent the entire village, By picking synthesis.

#157
nitefyre410

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frylock23 wrote...


We're all individuals and even genetically identical individuals are different as evidenced from their different experiences -> their nuture.

Difference is the root of conflict.


So the only way that Star Brat's synthesis works is if it also removes freewill by forcing everyone to be the same in more than just the fundamental but also in the behavioral.


^ This 

#158
Bob3terd

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Genetic rape.

Im me, im flawed, im human and i damn well dont want others dictating who or what i should be.

#159
jeff359

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Its against the major theme of the series that its differences is what makes us strong. Now the space kid says the only way is if we remove difference, and Sheppard is good with it he debates with Ash in the first games about aliens on his ship, but is fine when his enemy suggests Saren's plan .

And why did it have to be Sheppard's DNA, why couldn't they take one of the dead people from the hallway,TIM or Anderson and chuck him in the the big laser beam.

Why would Sheppard be like "hey we need DNA I'm all good with killing myself via lazor beam, I mean its not like he's got easy access to human blood he could just sprinkle in from those gun shot wounds."

And why would you suddenly work with the reapers? suddenly you trust anything the little glowing one tells you?

Modifié par jeff359, 09 mai 2012 - 04:29 .


#160
Ieldra

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nitefyre410 wrote...

frylock23 wrote...


We're all individuals and even genetically identical individuals are different as evidenced from their different experiences -> their nuture.

Difference is the root of conflict.


So the only way that Star Brat's synthesis works is if it also removes freewill by forcing everyone to be the same in more than just the fundamental but also in the behavioral.


^ This 

Only Synthesis doesn't remove all conflict. It prevents any conflict that arises from ending in the extinction of organics by creating a level playing field. Power dynamics are affected, not anyone's behaviour.

#161
balance5050

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Ieldra2 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

frylock23 wrote...


We're all individuals and even genetically identical individuals are different as evidenced from their different experiences -> their nuture.

Difference is the root of conflict.


So the only way that Star Brat's synthesis works is if it also removes freewill by forcing everyone to be the same in more than just the fundamental but also in the behavioral.


^ This 

Only Synthesis doesn't remove all conflict. It prevents any conflict that arises from ending in the extinction of organics by creating a level playing field. Power dynamics are affected, not anyone's behaviour.


If I woke up and found out I was half robot it would change my behaviour.

#162
aj2070

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antares_sublight wrote...

EvilMind wrote...

Why Reapers didn't build crusible themselves and used Synthesis on galaxy? What, they can build hundreds mass relays, but not a structure that took organics few months(?)?

Well, I got my answer. Synthesis is not explained, at all. Its not a part of ME where everything has its explanation (ME fields, biotics, relays), thats space magic. For me thats a good reason to hate synthesis. Thanks everyone

That's a good reason, but there are even better reasons.


Hey, this is as good a reason as the others that have been outlined.  Don't discourage new reasons to hate synthesis.

:devil:

#163
Bob3terd

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Ieldra2 wrote...

aj2070 wrote...

EvilMind wrote...

When we cure genophage, isn't that too 'genetic rape' and 'forced'? What if Synthesis also cured some diseases, would then it be okay? Draw a line for me please.


If anything, curing the genophage is correcting "genetic rape" commited by the salarians.  Mordin says so much in Mass Effect 2 and 3; more in 3.  This is Mordin's whole motivation.  In fact, I would argue the genophage is a microcosim of why synthesis is wrong.  It is a "solution" forced on a species from an outside source with no thought of what the consequences would be.  If Shepard in fact cures the genophage, it makes the synthesis option more repugnant in my opinion.

Bah, there is no natural right to have as many children as you want. The genophage prevents population explosion but doesn't reduce reproduction below what's necessary to sustain the population. It is a good thing.


Just because it serves a purpose doesn't mean it isnt rape. It was forced apon them agaisnt their wishes that is  genetic rape, wether or not it is a necissary evil is for people to make their mind up about.

Modifié par Bob3terd, 09 mai 2012 - 04:32 .


#164
Wulfram

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edit:  My main problem with Synthesis is that it makes no sense.  It seems like it's morally pretty bad on first reading, but further thought makes it clear that it's too incoherent to really make such a judgement.

Karrie788 wrote...

:lol:

But seriously, there's no such thing as the "final evolution of life".


If Synthesis is fatal, or prevents reproduction, then it would be the final evolution of life.  At least, until life reemerges. Well, apart from not really being an evolution.

Modifié par Wulfram, 09 mai 2012 - 04:42 .


#165
adam32867

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Eain wrote...

ZIPO396 wrote...

Gen Petitt wrote...

ZIPO396 wrote...

Gen Petitt wrote...

Eain wrote...

Cribbian wrote...
"No soul, replaced by tech" - Mordin

Well admittedly I always thought that was a silly line anyway. Souls don't exist, so tech can't make them disappear.

Right sure they don't you are what they call "atheist" are you not?

A soul doesn't neccerily need to relate to religion. A soul can be a number of things. I'd say the Geth have a soul but not in the same way a soul in religion implies.

It was a mere question that I wanted an answer to and no I will try and sway him from his thought becuase it is not my problem.

Oh no I'm trying to support you. Just from a different direction. He says they don't period I'm arguing they do as are you. Just in different ways.:lol:


There's no explanatory power to the concept of soul. It's an empty term. Everything the soul is supposed to be responsible for can be explained through neurology and analyzing brain processes. I'm not an atheist, I'm a materialist, meaning I believe all answers to our questions can be found in physical matter and physical processes. The soul as a concept is just magic. I don't believe in magic.

i take it that you dont believe in the ending thenImage IPBImage IPB hahaha. I think the term soul as used here is what makes you yourself. if you take tech and replace your soul with it or in your eyes the neurology and analyzing brain processes  it  stops all diversity and changes what makes you you.

#166
Hadeedak

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Synthesis is the least explained and most confusing ending. Of course it makes people nervous, even if it's presented as being a good thing.

#167
Raiil

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1. There is no final pinnacle of evolution. The Reapers may believe themselves to the most ascended form out there. There is no empirical proof, just they're bwaaaaaaaaaarps of assumed superiority.

2. It's messing with the building blocks of billions, if not trillions, of species. Not just the sentient ones, but down to the nitty-gritty, one-celled organisms.

I stated in another thread about the transhumanist/h+ movement, which I casually follow for information (not as a personal philosophy). One of the most basic, set in stone tenants of h+ is that those who wish to remain unmodified by tech has an absolute right to do so, and that right must be protected at all costs. If someone has an ethical or moral (or even ewwww... what?) stance against tinkering with their body, they have a right to remain umodified. I, personally, look forward to the day where science can start doing what they do in the MEverse, but not everyone does, and I respect that.


3. Many paths to one end- Legion's comment. Evolution can and must proceed to avoid stagnation, but it must proceed on its own terms. Implants and gene therapy is playing with the line, but not breaking it as it doesn't create anything new. Synthesis, imho, completely obliterates it. We adapt to new surroundings. We learn to co-exist with our environments, and the environs learn to co-exist with us- the Quarians are a good example, originally on Rannoch their compromised immune systems were a benefit, since even viri tended to have an at least beneficial side-effect. Synthesis obliterates thousands of years of natural self-modification due to societal or environmental adaptation with its new building blocks. There's nothing to say this wouldn't happen naturally, but it needs to happen naturally.

#168
kookie28

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Aiyie wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

Reading through the reasoning for why Synthesis is "evil" is like watching Fox News about Obama.

I feel sorry for you Ieldra. It's gotta be like arguing with a wall.


not to derail this thread... but just a head's up... but watch some recordings from MSNBC from 6 or 8 years ago, then watch a recent clip from FOX...

only difference is who the talking head's are and who they're talking about.

Biased media is biased, on both sides.

if you only watch one, and form your opinion of the other based off of that... then you are being conditioned, pure and simple.

anyone who forms an opinion based off the first thing they see, without giving the opposition equal consideration prior to forming their opinion, is just ignorant and biased.

and before it starts, nowhere in there did i happen to say, or even allude to, which side i happen to support, so please keep any ill-informed comments telling me which side i support to yourselves.  thank you.

The point I was making is that generally everyone's reasoning for villifying synthesis is because of some apparent contrived moral thought that synthesis is some form of genetic rape that no sane creature would ever approve of.  Of course, nobody takes into account that Shepard doesn't exactly have the time or the resources to publicly poll every species and debate which option should be used. 

IE: Fox News will say gay marriage should be banned because homosexuality is wrong.  Obama lived in Kenya so he must have not been born in the U.S. and is also a Muslim.  etc.

But yes, thank you for spinning what I said into "Fox is the only evil media outlet ever."  Really appreciate it.

#169
Ieldra

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@Valentia_X
There are no absolute rights. Everything is context-dependent.

#170
jvara

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Because it makes no sense whatsoever, it's such a high level of "technology" it resembles more of magic that anything else, suddenly in 5 ****ing minutes you're introduced to a technology that affects every organic life in the galaxy at a molecular level, merging them with a whole fleet of previosly destroyed reapers, and we have to assume it does that without altering the "essence" so to speak if each individual, or it would seem so as Joker still couples EDI in the ending, and to do that you have to jump into a beam of light? Are you ****ing serious?. That's no science, that's magic. And also it's just stupid, it's supposed to take the best of each kind (synthetic and organic) and then you see Joker with some kind of ****ing chritsmas lights, wtf? Why on ****ing earth would be our body, our skin, one of our best assets compared to a synthetic lifeform? The only thing that this "hybrid" could use from synthetics is creativity, in the rest we are flawed.

Resuming:

Look at you. I say this in no spirit of contempt, but look at you! The material you
are made of is soft and flabby, lacking endurance and strength, depending for energy
of the inefficient oxidation of organic material. Periodically you pass into a coma
and the least variation in temperature, air pressure, humidity, or radiation intensity
impairs your efficiency, You are makeshift.



#171
justafan

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The problem with the catalyst is that he does not see the difference between species. All he recognizes are organics and synthetics. This is why he can justify the genocide of the cycles. To him it is not genocide, because it preserves organic life as a whole, Protheans, humans, Asari are all just "organics" to him.

Through synthesis, he achieves his goal of ending the genocide of organics by synthetics because neither of the two exist anymore, only hybrids. The synthesized geth might one day kill everyone else, but this would still be preferable to the catalyst, as it would not be "genocide" because hybrids were killed by hybrids, and some hybrids remain.

#172
aj2070

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The only times I have seen the concept of synthesis "work" in Sci-Fi have been one-off instances. The whole Ve'ger-Decker-Ilea thing in "Star Trek: The motion picture" and the human looking cylons in the new Battlestar Galactica. The only hybrid in Battlestar Galactica was the result of literally a biological process. She was a one-off as of the end of the series but proof it could be done. There has not been a galaxy, let alone universe wide re-write of every living being's very essence. That is what I see wrong here.

Yet another reason Synthesis is hated so much.

Legion on the nature of the reapers.  

Modifié par aj2070, 09 mai 2012 - 05:13 .


#173
Ieldra

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lordofdogtown19 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

NoSpin wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

lordofdogtown19 wrote...
Because that's exactly what Saren wanted in ME1. Listen to him yourself: 
 (skip to 1:54)

"Organic machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, the weakness of niether. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of organic life." 

This is irrelevant as an argument. An idea is not bad just because it has been promoted by a villain. The idea sounds rather attractive to me once you disconnect it from the Reapers.


What? It is an idea being endorsed by someone who has been indoctrinated by the freaking Reapers. Thus the Reapers want it. Thus Shepard should NOT want it. The Reapers are the bad guys of the series, and a couple lines by a ghost child should not be able to convince otherwise. 

Bullsh*t. The Reapers subvert ideas you already have. That's how indoctrination works. That's why TIM still thinks he's protecting and advancing humanity even while handing the galaxy to the Reapers. Does that make protecting and advancing humanity a bad idea?

The merit of an idea is independent from the morality of those who support it. Melding organics and synthetics may be good or bad, but that Saren wants it - even should the Reapers want it - is completely irrelevant to the merit of the idea. If the results are beneficial - and it is highly implied that they are - it doesn't matter one whit who else supports it or not.


So what your telling me is that you would just side with Saren in ME1 if you could? Cause that's what it sounds like

Saren wanted to submit to the Reapers, and we all know what would've happened then. Why would I want to side with him?

I support the idea that melding organics and synthetics might result in something beneficial. I don't know how to get into your thick heads that supporting one idea someone has does not automatically mean supporting his other ideas.

Plus synthesis is obviously what the Catalyst wants and the Catalyst is a Reaper. He says it himself. And the whole reason for the Catalyst making the cycle is a logical fallacy. It's a text book slippery slope argument that is already been disproven in this cycle by the Geth and EDI.

(1) It has not been disproven. We have one (!) event of counterevidence against countless cycles the Catalyst has seen.
(2) It does not matter if this is what the Catalyst wants. See above. Things are good or bad independently from who supports them. All that matters is what exactly it does. I grant that there is a great deal of  uncertainty there, thanks to the abysmally retarded phrasing, but it's meant to be a step forward on some scale of artificial evolution, likely in order to create a level playing field where synthetics can't surpass all other life any more. Since that's the only thing I can see that makes sense, I feel justified in basing my arguments on this.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 mai 2012 - 05:07 .


#174
Humanoid_Typhoon

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MordicaiBlack wrote...

EvilMind wrote...
 It is forced, but its a good thing, noone is hurt, only made better.


that line alone tells me you don't get it, no one not even shepard has the right to just decide the very nature of life for all, the sheer arrogance of the choice is what offends me the most

This and the whole it being physically impossible thing.

#175
ed87

ed87
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It was poorly executed, it goes against Javik's final message, also goes against a lot of themes in the mass effect franchise, and the message itself doesnt enrich my life in any way as someone who lives in a multicultural country like Australia.