528 réponses à ce sujet

[KingZayd]

Because it's pointless. Organo-synthetic species are just as capable of genocide as Organic species and Synthetic species.

[TygerHeart]

Synthesis was always an option.

Surrender and you will be melted down into a Reaper (part organic, part synthetic) or turned into a Husk,

Synthesis turns the galaxy into the Reapers form of idealized life.

[EvilMind]

SetecAstronomy wrote...

I don't see anyone noticing that the galaxy collectively agreed to aid in the construction of this Crucible, a machine with Purpose:Unknown written all over it. Knowing that, they agreed to actively build it anyway. As far as the Galaxy is concerned, Synthesis (or Control or Destroy, for that matter) was the Crucible's sole function.

They shared the responsibility.

They shared the consequences.

They will enter year 50,001 of their cycle believing that they, through their own free will, evolved themselves, and they would be correct to think so.

Thats a great point

[NoUserNameHere]

KingZayd wrote...

Because it's pointless. Organo-synthetic species are just as capable of genocide as Organic species and Synthetic species.

You just don't get it, ma~an! 

There's not organic or synthetic or even hybrid anymore. There is only... life! 

(Because members of the same species or even civilization have never fought and killed each other before.)
(Because Shepard is being used as the template for this, and s/he was far from the 'ultimate evolution of life,' let alone  a perfect pacificst)

What were they thinking?

[Oldbones2]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Konfined wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Konfined wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Because people are narrow-minded fools.

While those in favor are naive idiots.  See how that works?

Can't say I do, because last time we did this you just bowed-out of the argument completely while I made a case. But that just seems to re-affirm what I have to say here.

If my decision not to argue with circular logic, strawman, and ass-pull is a personal victory, then I'm happy for you.  However, in this case allow me to open your narrow mind.  The statement you made, was asinine ad hominem; contributed nothing to the discussion.  So I simply turned your statement around and threw it right back at you.  And I'm not at all surprised that you missed it.  

Not really an ad-hominem if I can prove it correct. I have thought-out reasoning - drawn from the narrative - and all you can do is call it ass-pull/strawman, no proper refute. Which basically makes you narrow-minded.

Thanks for playing.

Actually I think you're narrow minded if you think

A Synthesis as described by the Catalyst can work and
B People would want it implemented.


Please read my thread and expand your knowledge then come back.

http://social.biowar.../index/11152094

[Favourite store on the CitadeI]

It's wrong imo. Why should Shepard have the choice to do things which some might not want done

[SassyJazRzmataz]

I don't know if I necessarily hate Synthesis but it does cause me to over think the consequences a lot more that the other two options. It's the one I would never choose that's for sure.

[LaZy i IS]

akenn312 wrote...

LaZy i IS wrote...

akenn312 wrote...
For me it's that simple. Control is the Illusive man, Synthesis is Saren. Destroy is just genocide of the Geth and continues the cycle. Which to me all three choices suck. So I just chose whatever color I feel at the time or day.

Um... Destroy is about as ended as the cycle can get. The Reapers are totally gone, so no chance of it ever happening again. Given, the Geth do get wiped out, but it completely stops the biggest threat to all life in the galaxy, organic or (future) synthetic.

Nope the kid says "Your children will create sythetics agian and the cycle will begin again." Shepard says in response..."Maybe" That maybe is not a admission that the cycle ends that is just Bioware not commiting to anything but implying that the sythetic problem will start all over.
So I assume that potentially the cycle has a greater chance of begining again with the Control or Destroy choices as they are set up now.

But again Synthesis sucks too because it was what we were first fighting against Saren about at the first part of the series. To keep our own form but find another way to defeat the Reapers.

Now I feel like Red.

The kid says that there will be another synthetic problem, but remember: the cycle was his idea, executed by his Reapers. With them gone, the "cycle" is gone. Shepard says "Maybe" because yes, future generations may create more synthetics, but the Geth & EDI showed there doesn't have to be conflict between synthetics and organics, so there may not be another synthetic problem.

[Dybia]

EvilMind wrote...

 I just dont get it, I think its great. Could someone tell me or give a link where it clearly explains why Synthesis is the worst thing ever?

The short versions like "Its genetical rape" "Its forced" are not welcomed, I heard most of those and i'm not fully convinced by them. It is forced, but its a good thing, noone is hurt, only made better. Its just killing me, I really want a good explanation why is it bad.

Its the next step in evolution, it has many benefits, its basically making every single organic better in some way. I'm not saying Synthesis makes everyone perfect and it may have its own flaws, but its presented as something that has no downsides - a race without flaws of organics and synthetics.

Because it's a poorly explained concept that hadn't even been aluded to til the last minute. That alone wasn't the terrible part though. After not really explaining it they don't explore it. They don't show us what the consequences of it are. EDI's display turns green and Joker's eyes glow green. That's the effect we see. Even worse is that as little as WE understand about the concept we at least have the genre saviness of having gone through stories like this before. Shepard doesn't have that. Shepard should be understanding it even less than us, so why the hell would he take it?

It's a bit annoying how when there's a mass change in a species in a single instant writers and fans like calling it "the next step in evolution". I'm no science buff. I'm not even that smart, but even I recognize that is not right. That's about as close to evolution as pokemon.

[SimonTheFrog]

Synthesis can work for you if you don't think.

When you don't listen to what the starchild says and if you don't contemplate at all, what the green beam actually does, then you can start dreaming about cool stuff.

You can dream about eternal life, computer like brain capacity, peace... all the good stuff.

But as soon as you wake up, you realize that none of this is actually possible in the game.
It's just wishful thinking that has no roots in the universe as being depicted in the game.

[a.m.p]

EvilMind wrote...

SetecAstronomy wrote...

I don't see anyone noticing that the galaxy collectively agreed to aid in the construction of this Crucible, a machine with Purpose:Unknown written all over it. Knowing that, they agreed to actively build it anyway. As far as the Galaxy is concerned, Synthesis (or Control or Destroy, for that matter) was the Crucible's sole function.

They shared the responsibility.

They shared the consequences.

They will enter year 50,001 of their cycle believing that they, through their own free will, evolved themselves, and they would be correct to think so.

Thats a great point

No it's not.
Nobody was asked their opinion about the crucible. Hardly anyone knew about it. It was a top secret project created because, well, actually, because somebody at Bioware decided that a conventional victory would not be original enough.

And even if it was built after a referendum, that still would not make fundamentally changing all life in an unknown way without their consent okay or awesome.

I so wish people would try to apply the idea of synthesis not just to themselves and their personal understanding of how awesome it would be to be a cyborg but to the whole ME society.

[LaZy i IS]

antares_sublight wrote...

5. The reapers are still alive.

My biggest issue.

[Konfined]

HYR 2.0 wrote...


Not really an ad-hominem if I can prove it correct. I have thought-out reasoning - drawn from the narrative - and all you can do is call it ass-pull/strawman, no proper refute. Which basically makes you narrow-minded.

Thanks for playing.

What, using that sad excuse you call a thread as your example?  I hope not.  I hope you're really not going to call all that crap you made thought-out reasoning- drawn from the narrative?  Using examples out of context, cherry picking points of discussion, straw-manning others, and making up the narrative as you go along is an example of how you're planning to prove us anti-synthesis folk to be narrow-minded fools huh?

Modifié par Konfined, 09 mai 2012 - 06:57 .

[Azorgamer]

Honestly my problem with synthesis is that it's not evolution. Organics never become more sythetic, unless you get something implanted in you. The Starkid is wrong, that is not the next step of evolution, not in today's world and also not in the Mass Effect Universe. There is no example of anyone in the Mass Effect universe - past or present, that shows Organics evolving into Synthetics.

Also, the Starkid says that it will bring peace - how is that possible? Suddenly all species in the Universe are going to feel connected and want peace even though they've been fighting each other in one way or another for centuries. The only way that if their minds are changed somehow in Synthesis - and that is completely WRONG. Messing with someones mind so that they act a certain way is always wrong. Honestly, Synthesis just seems like some strange form of indoctrination. Thus, I always choose Destroy - and Sythesis will never be one of my choice. I even prefer Control over Synthesis.

[FlyingSquirrel]

akenn312 wrote...

Because of Mass Effect 1 and this statement about Saren Arterius. This is why Synthesis makes no sense to people that don't like the ending.

"But Shepard's words bred doubt in Saren's mind. Sovereign saw his conviction beginning to falter, and implanted Saren, making him cybernetic and completely devoted to the Reapers' cause. Saren thought of himself as "the future", a true cyborg, a fusion of both organics and technology, comprising "the strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither."

So if Sovereign implanting Saren with cybernetic parts is basically the same as synthesis and if Saren is right that is the true future of organics and synthetics. Why did we go through all the trouble to stop Saren at all again? Oh it's a different type of unnatural merge of man and machine..Oh I see now Casey...I see what your doing there....

Well, yes, I think it is different (and again, I don't even like synthesis, nor am I defending Saren in the least).

First of all, to me there was a strong implication in ME1 that Saren was being duped, and that if the Reapers did allow organics to continue existing, it would have been in a far more subservient state than Saren thought, and possibly full indoctrination. Second, I don't see anything in the synthesis ending that implies that the new organic-synthetic hybrids are under Reaper control or that the Reapers are even interacting with other species.

Saren's plan would have had everyone as, at best, clear "subjects" of the Reapers and possibly even full-blown slaves (and that's if the entire thing wasn't a lie - if it was, they probably intended to wipe out all the advanced organics anyway and would discard Saren once he ceased to be useful). The synthesis ending alters the nature of life, but it does not take away free will or appoint any one species as ruler of all the others.

[Karimloo]

I worked my ass off to blow the reapers to hell. Not have their DNA ridden on my body.

[Reorte]

As for "It makes things better", well, does it? How? If you want a longer lifespan there's some evidence that being castrated will help that and hey, we can clone people to stop the human race dying out. Do I want that forced on me? Hell no.

[Bladefist32]

EvilMind wrote...

SetecAstronomy wrote...

I don't see anyone noticing that the galaxy collectively agreed to aid in the construction of this Crucible, a machine with Purpose:Unknown written all over it. Knowing that, they agreed to actively build it anyway. As far as the Galaxy is concerned, Synthesis (or Control or Destroy, for that matter) was the Crucible's sole function.

They shared the responsibility.

They shared the consequences.

They will enter year 50,001 of their cycle believing that they, through their own free will, evolved themselves, and they would be correct to think so.

Thats a great point

So you get hundreds of responses going into great detail of why Synthesis is bad and you cherry pick one of the very few responses that agree with you. I know I'm probably being trolled, but whatever.

[SetecAstronomy]

Karimloo wrote...

I worked my ass off to blow the reapers to hell. Not have their DNA ridden on my body.

And I worked my ass off to find a middle ground. Good thing we got a choice in the end, huh?

[Mims]

I hate synthesis for a thousand reasons, but mostly it comes down to a single point:

You are forcing the entire galaxy to become something they are not. If you instantly turn everyone partially synthetic, after they have spent the entire traumatic war fighting synthetics, there will be MASS panic. I'm sure some will be happy, sure. In fact, some may be so happy that they use their new abilities to just start another war with each other.

"But wait, Mims! If everyone is a synthetic, people will all understand each other!"

Yeah, but that means you basically lobotomized everyone. You took who they were, killed it, and replaced it with a copy. End of story.

That is why I cannot like it.

Modifié par Mims, 09 mai 2012 - 07:13 .

[Lisa_H]

Well, I don't know what you think but I have no wish to have machine DNA(whatever that would be) inside me, I prefer being human. Synthesis feels like destroying the human race.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Konfined wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...


Not really an ad-hominem if I can prove it correct. I have thought-out reasoning - drawn from the narrative - and all you can do is call it ass-pull/strawman, no proper refute. Which basically makes you narrow-minded.

Thanks for playing.

What, using that sad excuse you call a thread as your example?  I hope not.  I hope you're really not going to call all that crap you made thought-out reasoning- drawn from the narrative?  Using examples out of context, cherry picking points of discussion, straw-manning others, and making up the narrative as you go along is an example of how you're planning to prove us anti-synthesis folk to be narrow-minded fools huh?

Actually I'm not, my thread was only pointing out hypocrisy behind synthesis-criticisms. My reasoning has been expressed long before that. In any case, it's clear that you only believe what you want to so I'm not going to bother going over it all again.

[savionen]

Reorte wrote...

As for "It makes things better", well, does it? How? If you want a longer lifespan there's some evidence that being castrated will help that and hey, we can clone people to stop the human race dying out. Do I want that forced on me? Hell no.

Yep. There's no evidence that being synthetic-organic is really an advantange either, Joker still limps, and there's a downside to every possible upside.

You can now read minds? They can now read your mind, too.

Wild animals no longer need to eat eachother to survive? Then the populations will spiral out of control until they destroy everything.

[KingZayd]

NoUserNameHere wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Because it's pointless. Organo-synthetic species are just as capable of genocide as Organic species and Synthetic species.

You just don't get it, ma~an! 

There's not organic or synthetic or even hybrid anymore. There is only... life! 

(Because members of the same species or even civilization have never fought and killed each other before.)
(Because Shepard is being used as the template for this, and s/he was far from the 'ultimate evolution of life,' let alone  a perfect pacificst)

What were they thinking?

lol even though you're not being serious, liara, joker, EDI and the trees all look pretty different to each other. The idea that everything is now the same species (which some people seriously do believe) is a little absurd.

[akenn312]

LaZy i IS wrote...

akenn312 wrote...

LaZy i IS wrote...

akenn312 wrote...
For me it's that simple. Control is the Illusive man, Synthesis is Saren. Destroy is just genocide of the Geth and continues the cycle. Which to me all three choices suck. So I just chose whatever color I feel at the time or day.

Um... Destroy is about as ended as the cycle can get. The Reapers are totally gone, so no chance of it ever happening again. Given, the Geth do get wiped out, but it completely stops the biggest threat to all life in the galaxy, organic or (future) synthetic.

Nope the kid says "Your children will create sythetics agian and the cycle will begin again." Shepard says in response..."Maybe" That maybe is not a admission that the cycle ends that is just Bioware not commiting to anything but implying that the sythetic problem will start all over.
So I assume that potentially the cycle has a greater chance of begining again with the Control or Destroy choices as they are set up now.

But again Synthesis sucks too because it was what we were first fighting against Saren about at the first part of the series. To keep our own form but find another way to defeat the Reapers.

Now I feel like Red.

The kid says that there will be another synthetic problem, but remember: the cycle was his idea, executed by his Reapers. With them gone, the "cycle" is gone. Shepard says "Maybe" because yes, future generations may create more synthetics, but the Geth & EDI showed there doesn't have to be conflict between synthetics and organics, so there may not be another synthetic problem.

But now they are all destroyed and all that work that Shepard did to get EDI to reporgram & to have human feelings is gone. The Geth's history and all the work Legion did to get them to ally with humans is gone. Also Shepard was the only one with the persuasive ability to talk them down from destorying each other again anyway even after they knew the problem, who knows how many cycles it would take to get to someone like Shepard with the charisma and bravery to be able to accomplish this feat again if another sythetic problem occurs.

Also who else even heard the discussion with you and the Star brat to know why any of this stuff is happening to them? How does anyone even know organics and sythetics are the issue?

Yeah that is correct...nobody could possibly know. So why are we to assume they all suddenly said, "Oh the Reapers were created because of the organic sythertic problem."

So I find it odd that after each ending, everone is so calm and serene about thier new current situation. No one is confused at all or asks "What the hell just happened?" Why is Joker not crying his eyes out? He just lost a perfect robot model of Tricia Helfer. That would make me cry. With synthesis all of a sudden they get these green glowing wires in thier skin and the first reaction is to look at a sunset on a strange unknown planet.

Modifié par akenn312, 09 mai 2012 - 07:33 .