142 réponses à ce sujet

[Ageless Face]

Made Nightwing wrote.

@HagarIshay.

You know, I always thought that maybe it was because SHEPARD WAS POINTING A GUN AT A COUNCILOR? (sorry about the caps lock, but I have strong feelings on that point.) No matter whether Shepard had ever worked with Cerberus or not, her reaction was the same thing I'd expect from somebody assigned to protect a VIP. Kind of like how only the US Secret Service is allowed to carry weapons around the POTUS, and not even decorated soldiers are permitted to carry weapons around him.

well, theres that too. But i think the writing team mostly wanted to show us the mistrust of Ashley in Shepard. you'd think Tali or Garrus would ever point their guns at Shepard?

phsycoman, and all of Ashley's and Kaidan's haters, i want to ask you something: if you realised your superior officer and your friend was working for terrorists, would you honestly be indiffrent about it and say "lets go my master!"? really thats how i see Garrus and Tali. Not very realistic. Or make me respect them much.

[ThatDancingTurian]

HagarIshay wrote...

phsycoman, and all of Ashley's and Kaidan's haters, i want to ask you something: if you realised your superior officer and your friend was working for terrorists, would you honestly be indiffrent about it and say "lets go my master!"? really thats how i see Garrus and Tali. Not very realistic. Or make me respect them much.

If your friend who was responsible for saving your life dozens of times and the lives of countless others said, "I know I'm with these horrible people, but let me explain. I need your help," could you turn your back on everything they've done for you without even giving them the chance to explain themselves? Could you live with just walking away and never knowing?

The relationship in ME1 was forged through trials that would test even the best friendships. It meant something to Tali and Garrus. They weren't just Shepard's soldiers, they were blood brothers and sisters. I think choosing to give Shepard the benefit of the doubt and value that friendship when things look bad is worthy of respect.

There are many ways to look at that situation. Why does it have to be one or the other; the VS is a distrustful traitor or Team Dextro are lap dogs? Why can't we just say that there were valid reasons to go with Shepard or not, and each is subject to the character's personality, background and the culture they were raised in?

Given that Garrus and Ashley were my favorites of the ME1 squad, I hate that it's always, "Garrus is the best because he stood by Shepard, unlike the VS who wouldn't know loyalty if it bit them in the face!" or "Ashley had the guts to ask the hard questions, she didn't follow Shepard around like a lost puppy with no self-respect!"

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 10 mai 2012 - 11:21 .

[DirtySHISN0]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

 "Ashley had the guts to ask the hard questions, she didn't follow Shepard around like a lost puppy with no self-respect!"

With most characters its not  simple like or dislike, ambivalent about most of them because they all do stupid things at some point. Even garrus and tali.

But Ashley....2.2 games of forced interaction

She doesnt question undina even though she knows from experience he is a backstabbing underhanded doucher.
Honestly i think she was just high on his spectre offer, which she also didnt question. Then again she doesnt complain that she has coasted on the back of shepards achievments for 3 years to get her rank.

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 10 mai 2012 - 11:23 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

 "Ashley had the guts to ask the hard questions, she didn't follow Shepard around like a lost puppy with no self-respect!"

She doesnt question undina even though she knows from experience he is a backstabbing underhanded doucher.
Honestly i think she was just high on his spectre offer, which she also didnt question. Then again she doesnt complain that she has coasted on the back of shepards achievments for 3 years to get her rank.

I can't really complain about Ashley not completely distrusting Udina when my own Shepard was railroaded into sympathizing with him.

[DirtySHISN0]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

 "Ashley had the guts to ask the hard questions, she didn't follow Shepard around like a lost puppy with no self-respect!"

She doesnt question undina even though she knows from experience he is a backstabbing underhanded doucher.
Honestly i think she was just high on his spectre offer, which she also didnt question. Then again she doesnt complain that she has coasted on the back of shepards achievments for 3 years to get her rank.

I can't really complain about Ashley not completely distrusting Udina when my own Shepard was railroaded into sympathizing with him.

That really annoyed me, there are some dialogue options that force you to be nice to someone after choosing renegade. It completely railroads the conversation. If i could, i wouldnt have agreed with udina in the council meeting but we dont have a choice.

[Hellfire257]

It's unreasonable to blame the characters for how <insert negative adjective here> they were written. I'm just happy Bioware has the best writers in the business. 

Modifié par Hellfire257, 10 mai 2012 - 11:31 .

[Stalker]

Hellfire257 wrote...

It's unreasonable to blame the characters for how <insert negative adjective here> they were written. I'm just happy Bioware had the best writers in the business.

fix'd

ME3 is not really an example of extraordinary great writing. You can feel that the writers changed and how they can't live up to the expectations.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 10 mai 2012 - 11:36 .

[Hellfire257]

Mr Massakka wrote...

Hellfire257 wrote...

It's unreasonable to blame the characters for how <insert negative adjective here> they were written. I'm just happy Bioware had the best writers in the business.

fix'd

ME3 is not really an example of extraordinary great writing. You can feel that the writers changed and can't live up to  the previous ones.

 Just in case anyone missed it, I was being sarcastic.

You're right on there. The series should have really been planned out from the start, even if it was just the groundwork and main arc. If it was then the edits they did along the way really messed things up.

Modifié par Hellfire257, 10 mai 2012 - 11:39 .

[Stalker]

Hellfire257 wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

Hellfire257 wrote...

It's unreasonable to blame the characters for how <insert negative adjective here> they were written. I'm just happy Bioware had the best writers in the business.

fix'd

ME3 is not really an example of extraordinary great writing. You can feel that the writers changed and can't live up to  the previous ones.

 Just in case anyone missed it, I was being sarcastic.

You're right on there. The series should have really been planned out from the start, even if it was just the groundwork and main arc. If it was then the edits they did along the way really messed things up.

You should mark your stuff as sarcastic somehow. You never know who here means his bull**** serious... 

[SJNKD]

CptData wrote...

Whom do you mean, SJNKD?

Garrus, Vega and Liara are basically always in some kind of group conversation, same for Javik. One of those guys is ALWAYS there ...

Tali gets lot of interaction in the last third of the game before the finale. It's just Ash & Kaidan who don't contribute anything ... right?

After Thessia is one im referring too. Ashley has one line, Garrus and tali aren't present for that conversation.

Modifié par SJNKD, 10 mai 2012 - 12:38 .

[Mr. Brainheart]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...


There are many ways to look at that situation. Why does it have to be one or the other; the VS is a distrustful traitor or Team Dextro are lap dogs? Why can't we just say that there were valid reasons to go with Shepard or not, and each is subject to the character's personality, background and the culture they were raised in?

Given that Garrus and Ashley were my favorites of the ME1 squad, I hate that it's always, "Garrus is the best because he stood by Shepard, unlike the VS who wouldn't know loyalty if it bit them in the face!" or "Ashley had the guts to ask the hard questions, she didn't follow Shepard around like a lost puppy with no self-respect!"

This is a very good point, they all had sound reasons to either go with Shepard or not.

Garrus had no real ties to Omega, why wouldn't he leave to join Shepard? Tali came along after doing her job for the Flotilla. They are more trustful of Shepard, that could've been naive of them, but why would taking that risk be wrong? Besides Shepard didn't show any signs of being different. Ashley and Kaidan probably had enough work to do with the Alliance and they didn't trust Cerberus, also with reason as even Shepard didn't know whether s/he was still him/herself.
I don't get why either the VS or team Dextro has to be right and they can't both have made a reasonable choice either.

[CptData]

SJNKD wrote...

CptData wrote...

Whom do you mean, SJNKD?

Garrus, Vega and Liara are basically always in some kind of group conversation, same for Javik. One of those guys is ALWAYS there ...

Tali gets lot of interaction in the last third of the game before the finale. It's just Ash & Kaidan who don't contribute anything ... right?

After Thessia is one im referring too. Ashley has one line, Garrus and tali are present for that conversation.

Yeah, Garrus gets a lot of attention in ME3. Not that I mind that - it's cool man. Just wish the VS would have seen a similar treatment. C'mon - if you check back ME1, Kaidan and Ashley were your brother and sister. They had some great fun on the Citadel, used to speak their mind quite freely. In MORE than one way they had the position Garrus and Vega occupy now.

Let's say I'm happy with the romance but entirely unhappy for the lack of interaction outside the romance. Ash is no introverted person that spends all her spare time alone. And even if Ash was designed to act like that since stuff happened that changed her character, WHY IN HEAVEN DOES SHEPARD NOT TALK TO HER ABOUT THAT ONE?!

Sorry.

[SJNKD]

@CptData agreed, I think that there should have been more interaction between Ashley and Shepard and there wasn't. It annoys the crap out of me because how much they could have had.

[spirosz]

Hellfire257 wrote...

It's just typical of ME3. You're either alarmed at how much missed potential there is or wondering what the hell happened.

Word. 

[JamesS.]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

phsycoman, and all of Ashley's and Kaidan's haters, i want to ask you something: if you realised your superior officer and your friend was working for terrorists, would you honestly be indiffrent about it and say "lets go my master!"? really thats how i see Garrus and Tali. Not very realistic. Or make me respect them much.

If your friend who was responsible for saving your life dozens of times and the lives of countless others said, "I know I'm with these horrible people, but let me explain. I need your help," could you turn your back on everything they've done for you without even giving them the chance to explain themselves? Could you live with just walking away and never knowing?

The relationship in ME1 was forged through trials that would test even the best friendships. It meant something to Tali and Garrus. They weren't just Shepard's soldiers, they were blood brothers and sisters. I think choosing to give Shepard the benefit of the doubt and value that friendship when things look bad is worthy of respect.

There are many ways to look at that situation. Why does it have to be one or the other; the VS is a distrustful traitor or Team Dextro are lap dogs? Why can't we just say that there were valid reasons to go with Shepard or not, and each is subject to the character's personality, background and the culture they were raised in?

Given that Garrus and Ashley were my favorites of the ME1 squad, I hate that it's always, "Garrus is the best because he stood by Shepard, unlike the VS who wouldn't know loyalty if it bit them in the face!" or "Ashley had the guts to ask the hard questions, she didn't follow Shepard around like a lost puppy with no self-respect!"

Just gotta comment here.... I don't think that it was only shep saving vs life a lot of times, the vs as the rest of the team helped fight all those bad guys, shep didn't fight them alone but shep just gets all the credit for doing so :-)

Another thing is that I just realized with Kaidan, that if you don't do the Benning mission you actually miss out on one of the two dialogues you have with him after the coup, so he will only have one cutscene after his recruitment besides the date, is there something similar with Ashley as well? Is her dialogue easy to miss as well? I got them all when I tried her romance but maybe I was just lucky.

[CptData]

Too bad, if you do Benning POST-coup, you can't help that ambassador with his son.
So in that case you need to sacrifice something for two exta lines by the VS.

[JamesS.]

Don't know what they were thinking when they sidelined the vs like that. Everyone gets punished by removing dialogue because of ONE hacker that decided to leak that manuscript, it's not fair!

[Ageless Face]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

The relationship in ME1 was forged through trials that would test even the best friendships. It meant something to Tali and Garrus. They weren't just Shepard's soldiers, they were blood brothers and sisters. I think choosing to give Shepard the benefit of the doubt and value that friendship when things look bad is worthy of respect.

Okay, i admit it's not very nice of me to have a grudge against Garrus and Tali for trusting Sheaprd. But i still find it odd Tali and garrus Didn't question Shepard's sanity. Tali maybe did a little at freedom's progress, but if not for the quarians standing next to her, i bet she would have calibrating in engineering long before Garrus. 

And you can see in ME1 the friendship between Ashley, Kaidan and Shepard was very big. That didn't stopped them from questioning Shepard when they should. And Garrus and Tali had even more reasons doubt Shepard. They were Aliens. On a xenophobic ship. Sure, you can say it's just them showing absulute loyalty for Sheaprd. I say it's exactly the problem. It's not making me hate Garrus and Tali. even like them at some level. But i can't entirely respect them. believe me, i tried.

Enigma1322 wrote... 
Just gotta comment here.... I don't think that it was only shep saving vs life a lot of times, the vs as the rest of the team helped fight all those bad guys, shep didn't fight them alone but shep just gets all the credit for doing so :-)

 

Well, it's true, but it was Shepard who led them. You don't remember soldiers who fought under Napoleon's leadership. You remember Napoleon. I agree that Ashley and Kaidan should get more credit for their deeds, but if you are going to need to remember every name of soldier who fought bravley and saved lives, people are going to have a hard time in history class... 

And i think Ashley and Kaidan were mentioned a few times on the news reports in ME3 if i remember right. Meaning they got some spotlight in that aspect and wasn't being totally forgotten by the galaxy. 

Modifié par HagarIshay, 10 mai 2012 - 02:02 .

[Doofe2012]

I've also fallen out of love with Ashley. Yeah, she's devastatingly sexy and beautiful, but she's almost not there in ME3. She hardly has a word to say on the Normandy, is still distrusting despite everyone else's acceptance of Shepard's working with Cerberus, and shares almost no intimate moments with him besides the obligatory pre-suicide mission sex scene.

I've moved onto Liara. She's the one I would actually marry. Completely loving, trusting, and always there for me.

[Verly]

I did find it odd that with Kaidan you can find him in different places on the Normandy, but Ashley is in that one room the whole time, and it seems the only person she spoke to on the ship was James when he got her drunk. It would have been interesting if, like, you found her talking to the dr. or something. heck, you even find Kaidan down in engineering talking to Adams.

It makes me sad, because I always loved both Kaidan and Ashley. It is one of the reasons I have 6 femsheps. I split it three and three.

[Vertigo_1]

Her writer, Chris L'Etoile left after ME2...I think that's why. She's just not the same Ash from ME1 (at least to me).

[CptData]

Well, I stay loyal to her unless the world ends or BW announces NO romance DLC ^^

(Someone has to say it. C'mon, guys, we're optimists. At least realists with hope ...)

[JamesS.]

I think Bioware was trying to attract teenagers with Me3. I am 31 and don't mind that Kaidan was pumped up in Me3 but it was a bit much and I thought that his "no chesthair at all" was catered towards some of the younger fans, I think the same goes for Ashley, they tried to attract new fans.

Modifié par Enigma1322, 10 mai 2012 - 06:54 .

[lil yonce]

Enigma1322 wrote...

I think Bioware was trying to attract teenagers with Me3. I am 31 and don't mind that Kaidan was pumped up in Me3 but it was a bit much and I thought that his "no chesthair at all" was catered towards some of the younger fans, I think the same goes for Ashley.

I always thought Kaidan was the stuff of teenage dreams. Nice. Non-threatening. Attractive. And if I may - a motor mouth with a limp billy club. Sorry. I'm smack dab in the middle of my bad boy phase.

[JamesS.]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Enigma1322 wrote...

I think Bioware was trying to attract teenagers with Me3. I am 31 and don't mind that Kaidan was pumped up in Me3 but it was a bit much and I thought that his "no chesthair at all" was catered towards some of the younger fans, I think the same goes for Ashley.

I always thought Kaidan was the stuff of teenage dreams. Nice. Non-threatening. Attractive. And if I may - a motor mouth with a limp billy club. Sorry. I'm smack dab in the middle of my bad boy phase.

Lol Kaidan is my favorite Li and I really like his character but they changed him a lot in me3 as they did with Ashley. I like his looks a LOT but come on who in his thirties shaves his chest completely? He did have chesthair in me1.