142 réponses à ce sujet

[kumquats]

Enigma1322 wrote...

I agree completely! That's How I feel about it with Kaidan. If I can help you fight to get Biowares attention let me know!

They are already two books in the hand of the DEV with letters from the fans about this issue, as far as I know there are fan threads who want to do something like that, only for their character. But you should ask in the threads for something like that.
I wrote already my letter. I don't feel like spaming the forums with that issue will change anything.
But it felt good to write the letter to BW directly. If the Kaidan thread does something like that, you should do it.

Truth is, everyone has great moments, Ashley is always alone. And I'm left wondering why.

Modifié par kumquats, 11 mai 2012 - 01:42 .

[JamesS.]

kumquats wrote...

Enigma1322 wrote...

I agree completely! That's How I feel about it with Kaidan. If I can help you fight to get Biowares attention let me know!

They are already two books in the hand of the DEV with letters from the fans about this issue, as far as I know there are fan threads who want to do something like that, only for their character. But you should ask in the threads for something like that.
I wrote already my letter. I don't feel like spaming the forums with that issue will change anything.
But it felt good to write the letter to BW directly. If the Kaidan thread does something like that, you should do it.

Truth is, everyone has great moments, Ashley is always alone. And I'm left wondering why.

Yes I saw the book Lia Project and I wrote a letter and gave some pictures as well, I hope it works. I don't know about the Kaidan thread though, I haven't seen anyone mentioning something like that but I do want to fight and help as much as I can when I se someone start a project or something. The more people keeps making threads and projects the more Bioware will notice :-)

[CptData]

@ kumquats: I contributed two letters - one for each book - of course, for Ashley. Think it was for a good case. Even if BW does not change anything I know they read it and may get an idea why people care about those characters that much. It's just that.

And that's why I love both projects. They gave me the idea I could change something. If BW decides to do a romance!DLC one day and add more content to the romances ... ^^

survivor_686 wrote...

Confirmed. Go on youtube and search
ashley and "individual" conversations. There is a lot of completed audio
files where Ashley interacts with the Normandy crew. Can't understand
why they cut it.

Either way, the VA for Ashley recorded new dialogue so maybe we'll see something in the EC>

I have the hope BW will reintroduce cut content or fix dialogue-related bugs with the EC-DLC.

There is at least one confirmed bug with the dialogue system in ME3: Gabby and Kenneth can't get together if you don't have Ashley on board and pick a certain choice. What if other dialogues are bugged too? What if Ashley has several interactions with the crew that simply don't show since they don't get triggered? Dummied out by bugs?

The EC-DLC could fix those bugs. Like a patch.

Modifié par CptData, 11 mai 2012 - 05:09 .

[BatmanPWNS]

The obvious message was to say "You didn't pick Kaidan, so f' you and Ash will hardly talk to you now".

[Ageless Face]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

The obvious message was to say "You didn't pick Kaidan, so f' you and Ash will hardly talk to you now".

Odd really. As much as i love Kaidan, It's pretty much obvious the majority picked Ashley. Was the writing team sweet on Kaidan? or they just really didn't like Ashley? 

Why do i get the feeling it's the latter?

[CptData]

HagarIshay wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

The obvious message was to say "You didn't pick Kaidan, so f' you and Ash will hardly talk to you now".

Odd really. As much as i love Kaidan, It's pretty much obvious the majority picked Ashley. Was the writing team sweet on Kaidan? or they just really didn't like Ashley? 

Why do i get the feeling it's the latter?

Nah. Kaidan just got some extra lines since he was now romanceable by both genders. Besides that, I don't mind his extra content. Neither do I mind Liara's content too - just the lack of content for Ashley.

I think it was less about "don't like Ash" but more "no idea what to do with her". Which is really odd - Ashley has some points  you could use for dialogues like:

- two years without Shepard (also Kaidan)
- why the distrust
- promotion
- talk about future
- comfort
- ...

[ThatDancingTurian]

HagarIshay wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

The obvious message was to say "You didn't pick Kaidan, so f' you and Ash will hardly talk to you now".

Odd really. As much as i love Kaidan, It's pretty much obvious the majority picked Ashley. Was the writing team sweet on Kaidan? or they just really didn't like Ashley? 

Why do i get the feeling it's the latter?

They probably gave Kaidan more attention because he's basically the only romance option anymore for straight female gamers. You can't romance Garrus unless you've played ME2 and did his romance, which I think is ridiculous. So any new gamers or gamers without the appropriate Garrus saves have just the one option; Kaidan. :|

[Karimloo]

They needed to give her a different naked mesh. She's a soldier.

She should be toned/muscular. Her trope is the warrior. I don't want Otaku warriors, I want western warriors.

[ThatDancingTurian]

CptData wrote...

I think it was less about "don't like Ash" but more "no idea what to do with her". Which is really odd - Ashley has some points  you could use for dialogues like:

- two years without Shepard (also Kaidan)
- why the distrust
- promotion
- talk about future
- comfort
- ...

I was also hoping for:

- what death was like for Shepard (I know this was recorded but got cut, I'm not sure why)
- if her opinion on aliens has changed at all
- the Collectors and the events of ME2 (I feel like she needs to know EXACTLY what Shepard thought was worth working with Cerberus)

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 11 mai 2012 - 08:47 .

[Ageless Face]

CptData wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

The obvious message was to say "You didn't pick Kaidan, so f' you and Ash will hardly talk to you now".

Odd really. As much as i love Kaidan, It's pretty much obvious the majority picked Ashley. Was the writing team sweet on Kaidan? or they just really didn't like Ashley? 

Why do i get the feeling it's the latter?

Nah. Kaidan just got some extra lines since he was now romanceable by both genders. Besides that, I don't mind his extra content. Neither do I mind Liara's content too - just the lack of content for Ashley.

I think it was less about "don't like Ash" but more "no idea what to do with her". Which is really odd - Ashley has some points  you could use for dialogues like:

- two years without Shepard (also Kaidan)
- why the distrust
- promotion
- talk about future
- comfort
- ...

Right, forgot about Kaidan being for both genders. Forget my theory then.  

And i don't think they had no idea what to do with Ashley, honetly. Bioware is famous for their great writing. I'm sure they could have analyzed her well enough. Or even look at her fan base to get a picture of what her fans expected. I don't believe things were that dire. 

[Lyrebon]

HagarIshay wrote...

Hair? I wouldn't have so much of a problem of it wasn't out of character. I mean, it seems no one will give a damm about hair regulations in the future (Defualt femshep is a great example) But still... why did she need to loosen her hair? maybe fix the bun, but getting rid of it entirely? don't really see the reason.

She looked like a horse.

ME3 was a vast improvement for her.

Also, I hated her character. She was whiny, racist, overly-opinionated when she just needed to shut her trap, and just overall annoying.

Especially on Horizon in the second game where she tries to take a moral stance against Shepard for siding with Cerberus when there's a bigger threat looming over her goddamn head (y'know, that ship that's abducting people? And hey, the Reapers are just out to destroy everyone but no, it's OK, let's get down to the real issue here...).

If you took the option to say you're not working with Cerberus, Ash acts as though you've been brainwashed or become a pawn when, from the Saren mission, she should know full-gorram-well that's not Shepard. It's like she hasn't even met Shepard before and just sees another Cerberus operative in place of the person who had a consciense for getting the job done, no matter what, to protect humanity. But it's OK, we'll just forget about the real threat Ash and focus on your prejudices and indulge your selfish ignorance.

"You're with Cerberus now? Awwww now I'm not even going to listen to your reasons and stick my fingers in my ears and sing "lalalalala!""

*punch to the face*

Damn! I hate her.

/rant

I can punch Al-Jilanni, why can't I floor Ash?

EDIT: "You've been gone two years and you let me believe you were dead? ...I know where my loyalties lie."

Shepard was dead / in a coma for two years you flaming butt-rave! People don't make moral decisions and switch allegiances when they're incapable of doing so!! Fffffffffffffffff!

Modifié par Lyrebon, 11 mai 2012 - 09:57 .

[Ageless Face]

Lyrebon wrote...

Especially on Horizon in the second game where she tries to take a moral stance against Shepard for siding with Cerberus when there's a bigger threat looming over her goddamn head (y'know, that ship that's abducting people? And hey, the Reapers are just out to destroy everyone but no, it's OK, let's get down to the real issue here...).

If you took the option to say you're not working with Cerberus, Ash acts as though you've been brainwashed or become a pawn when, from the Saren mission, she should know full-gorram-well that's not Shepard. It's like she hasn't even met Shepard before and just sees another Cerberus operative in place of the person who had a consciense for getting the job done, no matter what, to protect humanity. But it's OK, we'll just forget about the real threat Ash and focus on your prejudices and indulge your selfish ignorance.

"You're with Cerberus now? Awwww now I'm not even going to listen to your reasons and stick my fingers in my ears and sing "lalalalala!""

*punch to the face*

Damn! I hate her.

/rant

I can punch Al-Jilanni, why can't I floor Ash?

EDIT: "You've been gone two years and you let me believe you were dead? ...I know where my loyalties lie."

Shepard was dead / in a coma for two years you flaming butt-rave! People don't make moral decisions and switch allegiances when they're incapable of doing so!! Fffffffffffffffff!

Well, most of your missions in ME3 were againts cerberus while the reapers terrorised the galaxy. It was beacuse Cerberus was also a big threat. Like it or not, Ashley had a point. 

 you can't punch Ashley because she will hit you back, much more painfully.

And do tell me why she looked like a horse. 

[CptData]

Hagar, Lyrebon ... better go not into a fight, huh?
It's a matter of taste.

For you Lyrebon, I do have something:


Give her a chance. I did it for Liara and Jack as well - and like those characters

[Lyrebon]

HagarIshay wrote...

Lyrebon wrote...

Especially on Horizon in the second game where she tries to take a moral stance against Shepard for siding with Cerberus when there's a bigger threat looming over her goddamn head (y'know, that ship that's abducting people? And hey, the Reapers are just out to destroy everyone but no, it's OK, let's get down to the real issue here...).

If you took the option to say you're not working with Cerberus, Ash acts as though you've been brainwashed or become a pawn when, from the Saren mission, she should know full-gorram-well that's not Shepard. It's like she hasn't even met Shepard before and just sees another Cerberus operative in place of the person who had a consciense for getting the job done, no matter what, to protect humanity. But it's OK, we'll just forget about the real threat Ash and focus on your prejudices and indulge your selfish ignorance.

"You're with Cerberus now? Awwww now I'm not even going to listen to your reasons and stick my fingers in my ears and sing "lalalalala!""

*punch to the face*

Damn! I hate her.

/rant

I can punch Al-Jilanni, why can't I floor Ash?

EDIT: "You've been gone two years and you let me believe you were dead? ...I know where my loyalties lie."

Shepard was dead / in a coma for two years you flaming butt-rave! People don't make moral decisions and switch allegiances when they're incapable of doing so!! Fffffffffffffffff!

Well, most of your missions in ME3 were againts cerberus while the reapers terrorised the galaxy. It was beacuse Cerberus was also a big threat. Like it or not, Ashley had a point. 

 you can't punch Ashley because she will hit you back, much more painfully.

And do tell me why she looked like a horse. 

In the first two games I felt like giving her hay.

And I doubt Ashley could punch harder than Shepard, come one, Shepard's had practice with that news reporter.

@CptData: I did give her a chance. While I found her views enlightening in ME1 I still felt like she was trying to push her religious views on Shepard with several comments.

It was ME2 that turned me on her. She's just so. damn. annoying! Her comments on Horizon sound like her feelings are the only thing that matter. What about Shepard who had the unpleasant experience of being spaced, asphyxiating, and burning up on re-entry; who's been clinically dead for more than a year, only to wake up in strange surroundings, to find out that s/he changed nothing and the Council disregarded her warning?

Boohoo you thought someone was dead and then found out they were working for Cerberus for reasons you don't want to understand, Ash. At least she could have made a bloody effort. You're angry at Shepard? Good for you. Shepard is Atlas weighing the fate of the galaxy on her back.

While Ash might have a lot of personality I still find most of that disagreeable. Maybe I'm just easily irritable? I just know that Ash's self-importance and one-track thought process aggravate me.

[Hellfire257]

Sometimes you need to switch perspectives in order to understand. Probably worth pointing out that you, the player, know a helluva lot more than Ashley does as well - it's easy to forget that.

[DirtySHISN0]

Lyrebon wrote...
 Ash's self-importance and one-track thought process aggravate me.

This, although had i not asked and been refused (by anderson) the chance to deny her occupancy on the normandy in ME1 maybe i would have been more tollerant of her. It annoys me when any character can be unfoundedly scrutinous towards you and then come away feeling like they've won - which is the case in 75% of the coup mission outcomes.

[ADLegend21]

HagarIshay wrote...

ehmm... okay. 

I didn't really meant that i cared that much about Ashley wearing Pheonix armor. Just something that seemed out of place. Not just for her but in general. But putting it on Wrex was funny so i let it go.

And i don't remember stating i had no problem with Tali's drinking. I don't even let my Shepards drink (except from with chakwas. you barley get interactions with her as it is). But my OP was mainly about Ashley and what i expected of her. Which was not to drink herself until she would fall down to the floor and beg from Shepard to stop talking. Quite pitiful. Tali was maybe talking like a fool but she didn't disgraced herself as Ashley did to herself. At least to me it seems.

And sure she is more mature. She saw much in the time apart from Shepard. But i saw barley a glimpse of her in ME3 that stayed from ME1. Maybe it's because i didn't look hard enough, i don't know. I wasn't even sure about her until others said they felt the same. 

 If you feel she is the same person than i am truly jealous of you. Because i don't. Not by one bit.

 

She's not the same, if she was the same She'd be a terrible static character. Her writer got her essence, but she's not 100% there. MY main issue was you harping on her outfit and drinking. She got armor and a helmet, she also has a lighter outfit with a breather mask. She's got several outfits after only have one through three games. Also seeing that she's dealing with her sisters husband dying, worrying about her family, and then having a coup on the citadel and almost having to kill or be killed by her dear friend or lover Shepard that's a ton of stress on her. People drink.  There's also less of her if you play Femshep. it's like she's not your friend any more, just a soldier under your command. She's got tons more dialogue with male shep and of the five ME1 squaddies you cna ahve back on the ship she's got the least ammount of dialogue. that needs to be fixed, period.

Modifié par ADLegend21, 12 mai 2012 - 12:09 .

[CptData]

@ Lyrebon:

Well, she's sometimes a tough one.
I (successfully) tried to see the good side in the whole mess of Horizon & such: Ash keeps Shepard grounded. She's straight forward, blunt, brutally honest - and that's something an idealist Shepard (paragon) needs.
However, things look different if you play a more neutral or even renegadish Shepard - in that case, Ash doesn't work like that anymore.

Yeah.

And her religious beliefs - dunno. I'm an atheist and never felt it was "forced on me". Maybe it's experience - my fiancee is Christian.

[Apathy1989]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Lyrebon wrote...
 Ash's self-importance and one-track thought process aggravate me.

This, although had i not asked and been refused (by anderson) the chance to deny her occupancy on the normandy in ME1 maybe i would have been more tollerant of her. It annoys me when any character can be unfoundedly scrutinous towards you and then come away feeling like they've won - which is the case in 75% of the coup mission outcomes.

If you deny her joining your squad after the coup, does Shepard basically say he doesn't trust her anymore? 

Also just did an ME1 playthrough where I was mean to Ash on Eden Prime. Hilarious to see how angry she gets.

[DirtySHISN0]

Apathy1989 wrote...

If you deny her joining your squad after the coup, does Shepard basically say he doesn't trust her anymore? 

Also just did an ME1 playthrough where I was mean to Ash on Eden Prime. Hilarious to see how angry she gets.

No to my disappointment, he/she says PERMISSION DENIED in the most brooding tone possible, then goes on to give a crappy auto-correct-must beyour friend speech about how shep think she needs to be a leader.
Furious when i discovered this, cant even kick her off in a manor that is fitting.

After multiple plays of the same scenario i can say, except for 1 sentence in joker conversation, the most satisfying way to get rid of her if you dont like her is to paragon kill her (the one where she doesnt curse for shooting her yourself) and then choose all the renegade options when talking to squadmates about her death.

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 12 mai 2012 - 12:12 .

[Hellfire257]

The amount of hatred for certain characters really alarms me. What did they do to make you hate them that much? Eat your cat? 

I don't actually dislike any character apart from Udina, but even he had his reasons for being a first class tool. I guess I'm just a tolerant person. 

[DirtySHISN0]

Hellfire257 wrote...

The amount of hatred for certain characters really alarms me. What did they do to make you hate them that much? Eat your cat? 

I don't actually dislike any character apart from Udina, but even he had his reasons for being a first class tool. I guess I'm just a tolerant person. 

Survived virmire, all about the alien characters myself - already live on a planet full of humans. Honestly virmire was quite a hard choice in hindsight.

Which burdon do i want to suffer for an entire trilogy?

[Ageless Face]

ADLegend21 wrote...

She's not the same, if she was the same She'd be a terrible static character. Her writer got her essence, but she's not 100% there. MY main issue was you harping on her outfit and drinking. She got armor and a helmet, she also has a lighter outfit with a breather mask. She's got several outfits after only have one through three games. Also seeing that she's dealing with her sisters husband dying, worrying about her family, and then having a coup on the citadel and almost having to kill or be killed by her dear friend or lover Shepard that's a ton of stress on her. People drink.  There's also less of her if you play Femshep. it's like she's not your friend any more, just a soldier under your command. She's got tons more dialogue with male shep and of the five ME1 squaddies you cna ahve back on the ship she's got the least ammount of dialogue. that needs to be fixed, period.

Her outfits and drinking is pretty much all there is to her if you didn't romance her. If you did romanced then it can be argued, but even then i didn't feel Ashley was exactly there. 

Everyone are dealing with their family problems. But no one seemed to be in so much depression. Liara had a hole scene of comforting her because of Thessia, and after that she gets over it. Tali also have a drinking scene, but after that she is fine. Garrus for quite some time in the game have no idea whats going on with his family, but can still talk to you normally enough. Same for Joker. Kaidan's dad is MIA, but you don't see him laying on the floor.  

Ashley was the last person i expected this from. All of the fighting spirit she had- which so much of it made her character great- is simply not there. It can't be just because her sister's husband. Having worry for her family, yes. Having more determanation to kill the reapers, yes. But depression?!  i'm sorry, but I don't see why. She saw people dying right before her eyes. Good friends. it only drove her to fight againts her enemy. She was sad about their death, but she was not going to let herself to be kept down because of it. 

The problem of not being a friend anymore is also what makes her not herself. Don't really know about a renegade Shepard, but a paragon was always a good friend. Not having it back is just... sad. It simply killing her character. 

I hope they will make a DLC, i really hope so. Otherwise... I don't see a reason to replay my manShep anymore. 

[Apathy1989]

Hellfire257 wrote...

The amount of hatred for certain characters really alarms me. What did they do to make you hate them that much? Eat your cat? 

I don't actually dislike any character apart from Udina, but even he had his reasons for being a first class tool. I guess I'm just a tolerant person. 

Actually Udina is a far more likable person if you talk to him outside of manditory scenes.

ME1 he is very supporting of decisions, tries to get council off your back.  ME3 he talks about family, friends and working to get support for earth.

[Quething]

Karimloo wrote...

They needed to give her a different naked mesh. She's a soldier.

She should be toned/muscular. Her trope is the warrior. I don't want Otaku warriors, I want western warriors.

Interesting fact: between Reave and Barrier, offensively-specced ME3 Kadian is about twice as survivable as a defense-specced ME3 Ashley.

Also, since he can set up or detonate AoE biotic explosions, his potential DPS is also much higher, even if you spec him for full defense. (Ash can theoretically detonate tech bursts with Conc or set them up with Disruptor Ammo, but only single target and neither is reliable, and single-player tech bursts do less damage than biotic explosions even before you count the ability to spec biotics for increased synergy.)

Between Reave and Cryo, he also has better, faster, and more AoE crowd control than Ash.

(In ME1, he was fragile AoE crowd control, she was completely unkillable single target DPS. Apparently somebody between then and now finally noticed that he a May-un and should be strong and tough and wear bulky armor and she a girl and ought to be showing off her assets in a skintight suit. And oh yeah I guess we can throw in some combat ability or something too, squadmates need that, right?)

(Also don't kid yourself about the catsuit. It's got magnetic weapon mounting strips on the back. That was going to be her armor until the forums exploded. Notice also how she's wearing it in the "new armor" concept art where everyone is in their new armor. Notice also that the flavor text next to it is about how they wanted her new look to be "sexy." Whereas Garrus, Vega and Kaidan have flavor text about how their looks are supposed to show actual character traits like maturity. Things that were clearly not a priority for BioWare in this game, #3: Ashley Williams' personality.)