142 réponses à ce sujet

[Lyrebon]

CptData wrote...

@ Lyrebon:

Well, she's sometimes a tough one.
I (successfully) tried to see the good side in the whole mess of Horizon & such: Ash keeps Shepard grounded. She's straight forward, blunt, brutally honest - and that's something an idealist Shepard (paragon) needs.
However, things look different if you play a more neutral or even renegadish Shepard - in that case, Ash doesn't work like that anymore.

Yeah.

And her religious beliefs - dunno. I'm an atheist and never felt it was "forced on me". Maybe it's experience - my fiancee is Christian.

While being blunt and honest is a good thing, Ash fails to empathise or even try to understand Shepard's reasoning. That's not giving fair warning or keeping someone's feet on the ground, that's just forcing your prejudices on someone and clobbering rationality in the head. It's like a prosecutor talking over the defendant when he's trying to explain their side of the story; nobody hears why the defendant is actually innocent.

If we are speaking about a Shepard who explicitly tells Ashley s/he's not working for Cerberus, Ash is still the mono-cognitive elitist who can't understand that being an Alliance soldier isn't the only thing saving lives. I could tolerate it if it wasn't in the context of Ash being so self-involved, narrow minded and completely unwilling to empathise with someone who's been through death, a coma, and strange awakenings.

During those two years spent comatose the Alliance has turned its back on her and refused to give credit to the real threat. Cerberus acknowledged that threat and gave her the resources to fight what is irrevocably the greatest threat to the galaxy, and s/he's using them to risk her life for the lives of trillions. Not like s/he had a choice really.

Shepard has had to make a lot of sacrifices - saved Ash's life at the loss of many others for one - and Ash just comes across as an ungrateful **** with the temperment of a spoiled child throwing a paddy. Because just like that bratty child screaming its head off in public, Ash refuses to hear any amount of reasoning and logic.

It's like that one guy in the room who has to make it clear his opinion is the only one that matters by raising his voice above others when they begin to argue. It's obnoxious, arrogant and annoying. Ash needs to get her self-righteous butt out of the high-horses' saddle and join reality with the people who make do with what little they're given.

And I'm agnostic so I don't know why I brought the religion issue up. I think it was just the line, "I don't know how you can't not believe." I've heard it plenty of times and it's a common indicater for ignorance, which seems to be a predominant trait for Ashley.

I only wish there was an option in that conversation to tell Ashley to sod off and walk away.

Modifié par Lyrebon, 12 mai 2012 - 08:35 .

[Ageless Face]

Lyrebon wrote...

While being blunt and honest is a good thing, Ash fails to empathise or even try to understand Shepard's reasoning. That's not giving fair warning or keeping someone's feet on the ground, that's just forcing your prejudices on someone and clobbering rationality in the head. It's like a prosecutor talking over the defendant when he's trying to explain their side of the story; nobody hears why the defendant is actually innocent.

If we are speaking about a Shepard who explicitly tells Ashley s/he's not working for Cerberus, Ash is still the mono-cognitive elitist who can't understand that being an Alliance soldier isn't the only thing saving lives. I could tolerate it if it wasn't in the context of Ash being so self-involved, narrow minded and completely unwilling to empathise with someone who's been through death, a coma, and strange awakenings.

During those two years spent comatose the Alliance has turned its back on her and refused to give credit to the real threat. Cerberus acknowledged that threat and gave her the resources to fight what is irrevocably the greatest threat to the galaxy, and s/he's using them to risk her life for the lives of trillions. Not like s/he had a choice really.

Shepard has had to make a lot of sacrifices - saved Ash's life at the loss of many others for one - and Ash just comes across as an ungrateful **** with the temperment of a spoiled child throwing a paddy. Because just like that bratty child screaming its head off in public, Ash refuses to hear any amount of reasoning and logic.

It's like that one guy in the room who has to make it clear his opinion is the only one that matters by raising his voice above others when they begin to argue. It's obnoxious, arrogant and annoying. Ash needs to get her self-righteous butt out of the high-horses' saddle and join reality with the people who make do with what little they're given.

And I'm agnostic so I don't know why I brought the religion issue up. I think it was just the line, "I don't know how you can't not believe." I've heard it plenty of times and it's a common indicater for ignorance, which seems to be a predominant trait for Ashley.

I only wish there was an option in that conversation to tell Ashley to sod off and walk away.

Don't forget that Shepard didn't really try to explain him/herself. Shepard doesn't even explain Ashley s/he was being rebuild. The best you can do is to tell her Sheaprd was in a coma. Which is not very believable after she saw Sheaprd die before her eyes. In the hole scene Shepard wasn't very tactfull. Combine that with Ashley being in shock from seeing her dead friend/lover before her eyes and working with terrorist, and the outcome of Horizon is not surprising.

Frankly i thought she was a little wary of telling Shepard she believed in god. If you tell her you don't mind, i guess she got exited of someone who don't think it's weird she's religious. 

[4stringwizard]

Agreed. I loved Ash in ME1, but it felt as if the writers went out of their way to ruin her in ME3. Even her Miranda-ized appearance aside, she just wasn't the same. Her kick-ass personality was gone, and her constant trust issues really got annoying after a while. It felt like in every major scene with her, she was having a trust crisis with Shepard. I wanted to scream at her "GET OVER IT!"

Modifié par 4stringwizard, 13 mai 2012 - 04:13 .

[grey_wind]

I wish this problem only extended to Ashley, but practically every character who wasn't Garrus, Tali or Liara had a sh*t taken on them. I suppose that's what happens when you lose all but a handful of the writers from ME1 and 2.

[Dr. Doctor]

What bugged me was that Ash gets all of this character development (promotion to Lieutenant-Commander, the two and a half year stretch of time between ME1 and ME3, etc) that doesn't really get expanded on. We don't find out anything about her that we didn't already know.

I also missed being called "Skipper". It's this little tiny part of Ash's character that just isn't there anymore and I notice it, "Sir" just isn't the same. It seems to me that the only reason why I'd consider bringing her back onto the Normandy as a squadmate is if I romanced her other than that there's not enough interaction or story to to keep me from turning her into a War Asset. The same thing applies to Kaidan, I think that making the VS a completely interchangeable character really destroyed whatever distinctiveness that they had in ME1.

[RyrineaNara]

Made Nightwing wrote...

The problem is, that i didn't see at all Ashley trying to figure out why Shepard worked with Cerberus aside from the obvious collector's problem. Kaidan got a scene where he tries to ask about TIM, and get some sort of an idea about him and the hole organization. I get it that Kaidan and Ashley are not the same characters, but i would be interested what she thoguht about Cerberus, not just quoting the Alliance.
In short, they didn't gave us much to make Ashley's trust- And shepard's for some-  to be rebuild.
 

Its just Shepard saying that she never his saw his change coming thought my old Shepard  was someone with a Soul Survivor background. I wanted to smack her mouth after that so the guy that let Thresher Maws kill you was good yeah were the **** did my Shepard go? And why didn't Kaidan just shake her a little bit and talk some sense in to her after that line. That whole scene was not what my Shepard would say in the least.

Modifié par RyrineaNara, 13 mai 2012 - 07:51 .

[Lyrebon]

HagarIshay wrote...

Lyrebon wrote...

While being blunt and honest is a good thing, Ash fails to empathise or even try to understand Shepard's reasoning. That's not giving fair warning or keeping someone's feet on the ground, that's just forcing your prejudices on someone and clobbering rationality in the head. It's like a prosecutor talking over the defendant when he's trying to explain their side of the story; nobody hears why the defendant is actually innocent.

If we are speaking about a Shepard who explicitly tells Ashley s/he's not working for Cerberus, Ash is still the mono-cognitive elitist who can't understand that being an Alliance soldier isn't the only thing saving lives. I could tolerate it if it wasn't in the context of Ash being so self-involved, narrow minded and completely unwilling to empathise with someone who's been through death, a coma, and strange awakenings.

During those two years spent comatose the Alliance has turned its back on her and refused to give credit to the real threat. Cerberus acknowledged that threat and gave her the resources to fight what is irrevocably the greatest threat to the galaxy, and s/he's using them to risk her life for the lives of trillions. Not like s/he had a choice really.

Shepard has had to make a lot of sacrifices - saved Ash's life at the loss of many others for one - and Ash just comes across as an ungrateful **** with the temperment of a spoiled child throwing a paddy. Because just like that bratty child screaming its head off in public, Ash refuses to hear any amount of reasoning and logic.

It's like that one guy in the room who has to make it clear his opinion is the only one that matters by raising his voice above others when they begin to argue. It's obnoxious, arrogant and annoying. Ash needs to get her self-righteous butt out of the high-horses' saddle and join reality with the people who make do with what little they're given.

And I'm agnostic so I don't know why I brought the religion issue up. I think it was just the line, "I don't know how you can't not believe." I've heard it plenty of times and it's a common indicater for ignorance, which seems to be a predominant trait for Ashley.

I only wish there was an option in that conversation to tell Ashley to sod off and walk away.

Don't forget that Shepard didn't really try to explain him/herself. Shepard doesn't even explain Ashley s/he was being rebuild. The best you can do is to tell her Sheaprd was in a coma. Which is not very believable after she saw Sheaprd die before her eyes. In the hole scene Shepard wasn't very tactfull. Combine that with Ashley being in shock from seeing her dead friend/lover before her eyes and working with terrorist, and the outcome of Horizon is not surprising.

Frankly i thought she was a little wary of telling Shepard she believed in god. If you tell her you don't mind, i guess she got exited of someone who don't think it's weird she's religious. 

"I spent two years in a coma while Cerberus rebuilt me."

I think it was explained, if tersely, right there. And Ash's reply to that, the one thing she extrapolates: "You're with Cerberus now?" 

/Cue rant about Cerberus.

Not that Shepard mentioned "coma" or being "rebuilt," which the latter is an odd thing to say I'd've thought Ash would be more curious about.

Ash believed the Alliance saying Cerberus was behind the attacks on the colonies - when the Alliance has clearly been covering up the real threat of the Reapers for so long she must be stupid to not see it's propoganda.

Another thing:

Shepard: "Cerberus and I want the same thing - to save the colonies. That doesn't mean I answer to them."
Ash: "Do you really believe that, or is that what Cerberus wants you to think? How could you turn your back on us, the Alliance, Anderson?"

Again, Ash is just proving she blindly believes every bull**** lie the Alliance tells her, as though they're saints incapable of lying. It's not Shepard's fault she's a bull-headed fool.

Garrus says it succinctly: "Dammit Ash, you're so focused on Cerberus you're ignoring the real threat."

At which point Shepard can either say, "you won't listen," or, "you're letting how you feel get in front of the facts."

Ash? "I know where my loyalties lie."

THIS again. Her loyalties are with a force content on covering up the truth she so blindly believes it's laughable. She's trying to blame Shepard for her ignorance when she only has to look at the facts and her experiences with Sovereign/Saren and realise she's acting like a child. Garrus understands the threat, Wrex, Tali and Liara understand; they were all there, so why does Ash choose to be a complete jackass about it?

I'm not saying hate Ashley now! But she just annoys the crap outta me. She's selfish, ignorant and petty.

Modifié par Lyrebon, 13 mai 2012 - 06:54 .

[Ageless Face]

Lyrebon wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

Lyrebon wrote...

While being blunt and honest is a good thing, Ash fails to empathise or even try to understand Shepard's reasoning. That's not giving fair warning or keeping someone's feet on the ground, that's just forcing your prejudices on someone and clobbering rationality in the head. It's like a prosecutor talking over the defendant when he's trying to explain their side of the story; nobody hears why the defendant is actually innocent.

If we are speaking about a Shepard who explicitly tells Ashley s/he's not working for Cerberus, Ash is still the mono-cognitive elitist who can't understand that being an Alliance soldier isn't the only thing saving lives. I could tolerate it if it wasn't in the context of Ash being so self-involved, narrow minded and completely unwilling to empathise with someone who's been through death, a coma, and strange awakenings.

During those two years spent comatose the Alliance has turned its back on her and refused to give credit to the real threat. Cerberus acknowledged that threat and gave her the resources to fight what is irrevocably the greatest threat to the galaxy, and s/he's using them to risk her life for the lives of trillions. Not like s/he had a choice really.

Shepard has had to make a lot of sacrifices - saved Ash's life at the loss of many others for one - and Ash just comes across as an ungrateful **** with the temperment of a spoiled child throwing a paddy. Because just like that bratty child screaming its head off in public, Ash refuses to hear any amount of reasoning and logic.

It's like that one guy in the room who has to make it clear his opinion is the only one that matters by raising his voice above others when they begin to argue. It's obnoxious, arrogant and annoying. Ash needs to get her self-righteous butt out of the high-horses' saddle and join reality with the people who make do with what little they're given.

And I'm agnostic so I don't know why I brought the religion issue up. I think it was just the line, "I don't know how you can't not believe." I've heard it plenty of times and it's a common indicater for ignorance, which seems to be a predominant trait for Ashley.

I only wish there was an option in that conversation to tell Ashley to sod off and walk away.

Don't forget that Shepard didn't really try to explain him/herself. Shepard doesn't even explain Ashley s/he was being rebuild. The best you can do is to tell her Sheaprd was in a coma. Which is not very believable after she saw Sheaprd die before her eyes. In the hole scene Shepard wasn't very tactfull. Combine that with Ashley being in shock from seeing her dead friend/lover before her eyes and working with terrorist, and the outcome of Horizon is not surprising.

Frankly i thought she was a little wary of telling Shepard she believed in god. If you tell her you don't mind, i guess she got exited of someone who don't think it's weird she's religious. 

"I spent two years in a coma while Cerberus rebuilt me."

I think it was explained, if tersely, right there. And Ash's reply to that, the one thing she extrapolates: "You're with Cerberus now?" 

/Cue rant about Cerberus.

Not that Shepard mentioned "coma" or being "rebuilt," which the latter is an odd thing to say I'd've thought Ash would be more curious about.

Ash believed the Alliance saying Cerberus was behind the attacks on the colonies - when the Alliance has clearly been covering up the real threat of the Reapers for so long she must be stupid to not see it's propoganda.

Another thing:

Shepard: "Cerberus and I want the same thing - to save the colonies. That doesn't mean I answer to them."
Ash: "Do you really believe that, or is that what Cerberus wants you to think? How could you turn your back on us, the Alliance, Anderson?"

Again, Ash is just proving she blindly believes every bull**** lie the Alliance tells her, as though they're saints incapable of lying. It's not Shepard's fault she's a bull-headed fool.

Garrus says it succinctly: "Dammit Ash, you're so focused on Cerberus you're ignoring the real threat."

At which point Shepard can either say, "you won't listen," or, "you're letting how you feel get in front of the facts."

Ash? "I know where my loyalties lie."

THIS again. Her loyalties are with a force content on covering up the truth she so blindly believes it's laughable. She's trying to blame Shepard for her ignorance when she only has to look at the facts and her experiences with Sovereign/Saren and realise she's acting like a child. Garrus understands the threat, Wrex, Tali and Liara understand; they were all there, so why does Ash choose to be a complete jackass about it?

I'm not saying hate Ashley now! But she just annoys the crap outta me. She's selfish, ignorant and petty.

A sentance like that is even more confusing than simply say Shepard was in a coma. Coma? Rebuilt you? How can they rubuild you? Why is Shepard not dead?... Shepard's tact was still very low. 
I guess i can agree with you with Ashley not being curious about Shepard dying. But the same can be said for everyone. No one seems to give a damm about Shepard being dead. Ashley and Kaidan are two of few to even give it a thought. 

Shepard giving ashley the "Its obvious your not going to listen" After talking to her for barely a minute. Or saying "Your letting how you feel get in the way of the fact" After giving her quite the stupid explanation about the hole situation. 

I don't think it's really not understanding the threat, more like keeping in company that tried to dismiss the threat. She knows the threat is real, but i guess she can wonder sometimes if the reapers stopped to exist. 
 

[Made Nightwing]

It actually makes sense when you consider that to the Alliance, Cerberus are still the bad guys. Indeed, investigating and fighting Cerberus has taken up a great deal of the Alliance's resources. I don't think anyone understand just how 'evil' Cerberus is. Conducting unethical experiments, betraying and killing Alliance personnel.

Ashley's loyalty is to the Alliance. The Alliance is the organisation that has stuck by humanity to the best of its ability. The colonies that have been abducted are those that chose to go 'F*ck you' to the Alliance. Anderson has already stated that he's investigating the Reapers, (trying to find proof), and since Ash seems to be acting as his personal agent. Therefore, it doesn't look to Ash as though Shepard's working to stop the Reapers, it looks as though he's gone freaking insane.

SHEPARD is the ignorant and selfish one in this situation. He shows up out of nowhere, WORKING FOR TERRORISTS (sorry, but these points need emphasis). Cerberus aren't anti-heroes, or misunderstood good guys, they are bastards who have caused more harm than good to humanity. Turning colonists into husks, abducting Alliance soldiers to experiment on them, etc.

If an SAS trooper disappeared for a few years, someone who I knew, and he said to me when he came back. "I was in a coma in the Middle East and now I'm working for the Pakistani ISS to save the world." I'd call bull**** because it sounds like bull****.

[What a Succulent Ass]

All of my ME3 Ashley butthurt feels are coming back.

[Rip504]

OP+1 although I am still a fan of Ash,as I remember her both ways now. I am also a male and enjoy her new look. Sorry!
I do miss the hardcore soldier Ash.

[garrusfan1]

I was mad because she got very little dialouge to actually talk with you

[CptData]

Random Jerkface wrote...

All of my ME3 Ashley butthurt feels are coming back.

Because of wasted potential of this character & story telling related to her?
Yeah.

Or 'cause you dislike her?
Meh ^^

[feliciano2040]

People disliking Ashley in ME 3 ?

[Applepie_Svk]

LoL You are not alone, I hate Ash too, but with little difference - I hate her since ME1. For me she was pointless and forced into game. Someone said she is great soldier and she´ll be under your command - hmm lol so I even don´t have a chance to say NO get out of my crewdeck in ME1. I don´t think so - her person on deck of Normandy was more something like a grudge and xenophobic greenhead than reasonable person - and LOL I don´t want represent humanity with someone like her, I know not everyone from squad is here to please Sheppard but her character remind me the worst things on humanity - her charater from ME1 fit more for adept of Cerberus´s ranks. I don´t like her in any of ME but atleast in first ME she has a personality.

In ME3 was her personality totaly changed and everything looks like YEAH WE ARE ALL FRIENDZ and I LOVE TURIAN,SALARIAN - Tali is to me like a sister,,, LOL character which was able to shoot Wrex into back in ME1 and always said DON´ TRUST ALLIENS .... etc etc ... otherwise she has very similiar dialogs with Kaidan which was very dissapointing - and most dumb thing was after Citadel´s mision how she came to Dock 24 with her I am reporting to duty - looool like nothing happened, most times I send her to effort list because she is waste of place on crew deck.

Made Nightwing wrote...

.... but i would be interested what she thoguht about Cerberus, not just quoting the Alliance.
....
 

She has no own opinion that´s the fact, since ME1 she was always under someone´s influence - in ME1 it was her family tradition and behavior - xenophobic and religios opinions - in ME2 she change her subject of hatred to Cerberus always quoting Aliance words, even after what she could see in Horizon - lol and aliance more like to investigate Sheppard´s presence than Collectors (even after what she survived ME2-Horizon, Council and Alliance still denying something is wrong ...) - and in ME3 she was under influence of Udina. After if she survived Citadel mision than even after that she came back to you and want come back under your command.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 16 mai 2012 - 04:53 .

[goodventure]

I haven't had the opportunity to have a full play through where Ash survived Virmire, but I agree with the general sentiment of this thread. I've seen vids of Ash, and she definitely changed in ME3.

The only thing I can contribute is my experience with Kaidan. To be honest, I don't notice too many Kaidan fans complaining about his lack of content, but it just seems Ashley just has SO MUCH more cut from the game than they cut from Kaidan.

[CptData]

feliciano2040 wrote...

People disliking Ashley in ME 3 ?

*snip*

Tbh, I can understand those people.

goodventure wrote...

I haven't had the opportunity to have
a full play through where Ash survived Virmire, but I agree with the
general sentiment of this thread. I've seen vids of Ash, and she
definitely changed in ME3.

The only thing I can contribute is my
experience with Kaidan. To be honest, I don't notice too many Kaidan
fans complaining about his lack of content, but it just seems Ashley
just has SO MUCH more cut from the game than they cut from
Kaidan.

Let's put it this way: Kaidan has some interaction with the crew. I'm sure some of his stuff got cut too. But for Ashley? Hell, there was this sweet radio-com between her and Tali. It's gone. Some interaction with the crew can be missed easily, if you do the missions in a wrong order (bomb mission needs to be done AFTER Tuchanka AND Coup - but before it blows up for example!)

A lot of stuff got killed. I just hope it's related to bugs and no cuts and gets reintroduced with a patch or the EC. However, given the fact BW never patched Garrus' face or fixed Ashley's bugged animal-alien-line in ME1, I doubt it's going to happen.

Modifié par CptData, 16 mai 2012 - 08:41 .

[Landon7001]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHH THIS IS JUST BULL ****.....come on, I love Ashley, shes my # 1 favorite character of the whole franchise, but what is this bs about her in me 3? Look, she got promoted, she became a SPECTRE, i liked how she looked before but she looks as good if not BETTER now....her "skipper" still there, er poetry and family issues still there....Be HAPPY we got her back...finally and fully. the only thing i would say is that i wanted more convos w/ her, esp. on the normandy and banter w other squad mbrs.....but ashley was one of THE very best things about me 3....maybe my shep will somehow get to grow old w her if they fix the damn ending