126 réponses à ce sujet

[mousestalker]

Googleplexed. (Not the web search, the number).

Character creation is critical for me to establish what sort of character I'm playing. I can't roleplay, which is what I play the game to do, until I know the PC.

[Rabid Rooster]

+1 for this, as well as better lighting and a contrasting back ground so we can see what we are creating better. I hated Skyrim's CC because of this, couldnt zoom and the back ground was too light.

[The Sarendoctrinator]

Yeah, this would be helpful. I like to play around with the character creator for fun sometimes, just checking out the possibilities before actually starting a new game - in DA2, this means playing through the opening sequence twice if I want to test out both MaleHawke and FemHawke. I don't mind it much because I enjoy the combat, but it can get time-consuming.

[TEWR]

wsandista wrote...

You know what is really sad? That this is even an issue.

It's a valid concern, especially for people of other races. If they want to play a dark-skinned Hawke in the exaggeration but Hawke is reputed to be white, that's pretty much a big issue.

Intentional or not, it does say something.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 10 mai 2012 - 09:16 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Saints Row The Third handled this conundrum best by having the player start the game wearing a Johnny Gat costume for the opening. Was meta and very funny. Creation happened after you get unmasked.

But what they did that was even better was release the Character Creator as a separate program a few weeks before release. Your creations could then be uploaded and shared with other players if you wanted. In many ways it was so much better than they typical demo. And more importantly, an idea they borrowed and improved upon from DAO.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

/signed

Again.

[fchopin]

Yes, agree with op.

Also all cinematics should be able to be skipped after you play the game ones, people should not be forced to get up and go and make a cup of tea while waiting for the cinematics to finish.

[AkiKishi]

You should check out the CC in Dragons Dogma. If DA3 follows the same character route as DA2 though, I'd just junk CC completely and go with the canon appearence.

[Kidd]

Oh yeah, and face codes like in ME, please! =D Remember that you need to be able to see your face code somewhere in-game, too ^^ Please jot face codes down on some paper somewhere. Shouldn't take too much work, I think? =)

Rojahar wrote...

Their goal was to give people a chance to try out their class and combat ASAP. 

More like show off the new game play to casual gamers, so they would feel connected first and then go into the slow pace that is the CC full of feeling they're in for a great ride.

It's not at all a place to try out your class since you can't ever say "no thanks, I'll try another one."

[AkiKishi]

Begemotka wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Yes, agree with op.

Also all cinematics should be able to be skipped after you play the game ones, people should not be forced to get up and go and make a cup of tea while waiting for the cinematics to finish.

Yep...if not having the CC at the start of the game is essential for the narrative,like it was in ME2,for example,if you played through the opening sequence once and were not happy with your character,you should be able to skip the cinematics next time around.

Bioware are inconsistant when it comes to skipping cinematics. Could have something to do with whether they are part of a conversation or a sequence.

[mousestalker]

Assuming that Bioware has a really solid reason for having a cinematic or adventure at the beginning, why not have a separate character creator as DAO did? That way, those for whom action is paramount can play first and design later whereas we fashionistas can pre-design our PC and only see the statistic allocation pages in game.

[Sejborg]

Ria wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Ria wrote...

I'd like the CC to pop up at the beginning of the game but I do get that Bioware wants to create a beginning with more oomph. However, "more oomph" does not justify the lack of skip option. (Not to mention that pseudo-Hawke and puffed up Bethany at the start of DA2 gave a terrible first impression of the game.)

I do not get that. Going through a long character creation removes all the "oomph". Better to have the "oomph" after the CC, so the beginning will have a better pacing.  I want my character to look just right, so I can easily spend a hour just making my character. By the time I'm done, there is absolutely no "oomph" left.

Personally I agree. I was simply trying to see the beginning from Bioware's point of view.

I think Bioware is afraid that a menu is not what hooks new players and it shouldn't be the first thing that a player sees, especially if she or he isn't familiar with RPGs. Bioware wants to create a hook that happens during the first few minutes of the game. The prologue of the game was used as a demo for both DA2 and ME3 so first few minutes are also promotional material for the game.

As I said, a skippable opening would be a good compromise. 

I know that you are trying to see it from Biowares point of view, but I still can't make any sense out of it. Do Bioware really believe that a CC at the beginning will make people say: "screw this! I'm not hooked yet, so there is no way I am going to make my character first!".

I don't believe that. People have purchased the game. I'll bet all the money in my pockets against all the money in your pockets that people who have bought a role playing game, will be willing to make their character before they get thrown into combat or some other kind of hook. 

The hook is not necessary at all prior to the CC. It just isn't.

If anything it's actually worse to have the hook prior to the cc. In the sense of pacing the story, for replaying reasons, and if your character turns out weird it is really a bad choice. 

If it's skippable it will only be a pacing issue. 

[Green Monster]

In addition to not having the character creator after a lengthy cut scene, I have another request.
I think the CC should let you define some preferences for your character beyond typical stuff like class, and appearance. Through a series of questions or interactions where you provide the game with some information about your character that will make the game more enjoyable for you before the game begins in earnest. Things like the characters world view, preferred combat style, romance preferences, conversational tone, etc could be identified. This would let the game adapt to me rather than me adapting to the game from the start. Of course there would still be important choices and adaptation in the game but I think there is real value in getting a lot of this information out up front to help tailor the game experience to the player.

[nightscrawl]

brushyourteeth wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

I want to sign this, but I had to fight through two bioware openings just to get to the signature creator.

I just LOL'd.

I agree with pretty much everything that's been said, but I'd like to add PLEASE KEEP THE BLACK EMPORIUM MIRROR OR SOMETHING SIMILAR! (and I never shout, so you know it's important).

Customizing your character after seeing about 10 shots of *canon* Hawke was also really weird. And no one in your playthrough noticed that you suddenly had red hair instead of black. If we're not to do the character customization right off the bat, I'd like to at least see it Skyrim-style where you're in first person until you customize so that there isn't a weird sudden change in your appearance.

And this is only kind of related, but I also found it strange that your family's hairstyles would change through each playthrough. Based on your dialogue choices, or random? - I don't actually know, but aside from reloading to fix my Hawke I would consistently go "dangit - I HATE Leandra with those bangs!" and reload just because I didn't want to keep looking at them for 30 more hours. What a bizarre thing for the company to spend zots on - especially with all their talk about emphasizing each npc's "signature" look.

I agree with everything here.

However, I will add a bit about the family's appearance. Family appearance in DA2 is based around the preset you've chosen in the CC. Say you were like me and played the same gender (girl) several times, based off the same preset, before deciding to play a guy. Well, by that time I had gotten very used to my family's appearance so the preset I used for my guy resulted in a strange experience where the family is concerned.

What I did to correct this is start out with the preset I want for the family, tweak it a bit to get the basic look of my Hawke, play until I can use the mirror, and then once that is available I can go to whatever preset I want in the mirror, do minor alterations, and not affect the look of the family.

Also, I really disliked not being able to adjust in minor increments with left/right arrows in DA2 as you could in DAO. It hinders my ability to create characters that look exactly the same each time I play.

[Cantina]

Sejborg wrote...

Ria wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Ria wrote...

I'd like the CC to pop up at the beginning of the game but I do get that Bioware wants to create a beginning with more oomph. However, "more oomph" does not justify the lack of skip option. (Not to mention that pseudo-Hawke and puffed up Bethany at the start of DA2 gave a terrible first impression of the game.)

I do not get that. Going through a long character creation removes all the "oomph". Better to have the "oomph" after the CC, so the beginning will have a better pacing.  I want my character to look just right, so I can easily spend a hour just making my character. By the time I'm done, there is absolutely no "oomph" left.

Personally I agree. I was simply trying to see the beginning from Bioware's point of view.

I think Bioware is afraid that a menu is not what hooks new players and it shouldn't be the first thing that a player sees, especially if she or he isn't familiar with RPGs. Bioware wants to create a hook that happens during the first few minutes of the game. The prologue of the game was used as a demo for both DA2 and ME3 so first few minutes are also promotional material for the game.

As I said, a skippable opening would be a good compromise. 

I know that you are trying to see it from Biowares point of view, but I still can't make any sense out of it. Do Bioware really believe that a CC at the beginning will make people say: "screw this! I'm not hooked yet, so there is no way I am going to make my character first!".

I don't believe that. People have purchased the game. I'll bet all the money in my pockets against all the money in your pockets that people who have bought a role playing game, will be willing to make their character before they get thrown into combat or some other kind of hook. 

The hook is not necessary at all prior to the CC. It just isn't.

If anything it's actually worse to have the hook prior to the cc. In the sense of pacing the story, for replaying reasons, and if your character turns out weird it is really a bad choice. 

If it's skippable it will only be a pacing issue. 

I rather create my character first then have to sit through some demonstration of how to play the character. I thought the purpose of a game was to learn as you go. Granted Skyrim does not allow you to create your character right away, but how they handle it is creative.

Next time my husband runs his Dungeons and Dragons game, he should run them through an hour or two worth of content then let them create their character. <shakes head>

[berelinde]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

But what they did that was even better was release the Character Creator as a separate program a few weeks before release. Your creations could then be uploaded and shared with other players if you wanted. In many ways it was so much better than they typical demo. And more importantly, an idea they borrowed and improved upon from DAO.

Please do this.

The mere presence of a few pre-generated characters waiting for upload does wonders for player enthusiasm.

But yeah, it would definitely be better to generate the character in more natural lighting, preferably outdoor daytime. The Black Emporium was great, but I didn't want to live there.

[AkiKishi]

Cantina wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Ria wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Ria wrote...

I'd like the CC to pop up at the beginning of the game but I do get that Bioware wants to create a beginning with more oomph. However, "more oomph" does not justify the lack of skip option. (Not to mention that pseudo-Hawke and puffed up Bethany at the start of DA2 gave a terrible first impression of the game.)

I do not get that. Going through a long character creation removes all the "oomph". Better to have the "oomph" after the CC, so the beginning will have a better pacing.  I want my character to look just right, so I can easily spend a hour just making my character. By the time I'm done, there is absolutely no "oomph" left.

Personally I agree. I was simply trying to see the beginning from Bioware's point of view.

I think Bioware is afraid that a menu is not what hooks new players and it shouldn't be the first thing that a player sees, especially if she or he isn't familiar with RPGs. Bioware wants to create a hook that happens during the first few minutes of the game. The prologue of the game was used as a demo for both DA2 and ME3 so first few minutes are also promotional material for the game.

As I said, a skippable opening would be a good compromise. 

I know that you are trying to see it from Biowares point of view, but I still can't make any sense out of it. Do Bioware really believe that a CC at the beginning will make people say: "screw this! I'm not hooked yet, so there is no way I am going to make my character first!".

I don't believe that. People have purchased the game. I'll bet all the money in my pockets against all the money in your pockets that people who have bought a role playing game, will be willing to make their character before they get thrown into combat or some other kind of hook. 

The hook is not necessary at all prior to the CC. It just isn't.

If anything it's actually worse to have the hook prior to the cc. In the sense of pacing the story, for replaying reasons, and if your character turns out weird it is really a bad choice. 

If it's skippable it will only be a pacing issue. 

I rather create my character first then have to sit through some demonstration of how to play the character. I thought the purpose of a game was to learn as you go. Granted Skyrim does not allow you to create your character right away, but how they handle it is creative.

Next time my husband runs his Dungeons and Dragons game, he should run them through an hour or two worth of content then let them create their character. <shakes head>

People with roleplaying experience tend to take it for granted. Being confronted with a character creator and making a character is quite an intimidating thing for a non roleplayer. Bioware want to expand the audience, they need to remove that shock to the system.
Not that Bioware went about it in a way that really solved anything anyway. But a more gentle introduction into character creation would not be a bad thing.
TES always did it rather nicely (no idea about Skyrim) where your character would be created as you progressed through the introduction rather than all in one go.

[Sejborg]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Cantina wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Ria wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

Ria wrote...

I'd like the CC to pop up at the beginning of the game but I do get that Bioware wants to create a beginning with more oomph. However, "more oomph" does not justify the lack of skip option. (Not to mention that pseudo-Hawke and puffed up Bethany at the start of DA2 gave a terrible first impression of the game.)

I do not get that. Going through a long character creation removes all the "oomph". Better to have the "oomph" after the CC, so the beginning will have a better pacing.  I want my character to look just right, so I can easily spend a hour just making my character. By the time I'm done, there is absolutely no "oomph" left.

Personally I agree. I was simply trying to see the beginning from Bioware's point of view.

I think Bioware is afraid that a menu is not what hooks new players and it shouldn't be the first thing that a player sees, especially if she or he isn't familiar with RPGs. Bioware wants to create a hook that happens during the first few minutes of the game. The prologue of the game was used as a demo for both DA2 and ME3 so first few minutes are also promotional material for the game.

As I said, a skippable opening would be a good compromise. 

I know that you are trying to see it from Biowares point of view, but I still can't make any sense out of it. Do Bioware really believe that a CC at the beginning will make people say: "screw this! I'm not hooked yet, so there is no way I am going to make my character first!".

I don't believe that. People have purchased the game. I'll bet all the money in my pockets against all the money in your pockets that people who have bought a role playing game, will be willing to make their character before they get thrown into combat or some other kind of hook. 

The hook is not necessary at all prior to the CC. It just isn't.

If anything it's actually worse to have the hook prior to the cc. In the sense of pacing the story, for replaying reasons, and if your character turns out weird it is really a bad choice. 

If it's skippable it will only be a pacing issue. 

I rather create my character first then have to sit through some demonstration of how to play the character. I thought the purpose of a game was to learn as you go. Granted Skyrim does not allow you to create your character right away, but how they handle it is creative.

Next time my husband runs his Dungeons and Dragons game, he should run them through an hour or two worth of content then let them create their character. <shakes head>

People with roleplaying experience tend to take it for granted. Being confronted with a character creator and making a character is quite an intimidating thing for a non roleplayer. Bioware want to expand the audience, they need to remove that shock to the system.
Not that Bioware went about it in a way that really solved anything anyway. But a more gentle introduction into character creation would not be a bad thing.
TES always did it rather nicely (no idea about Skyrim) where your character would be created as you progressed through the introduction rather than all in one go.

Yeah. A character creator is very Intimidating.

I was only around 12 years old when I saw my first CC in Baldurs Gate. It was such a shock! I just cried and cried for hours. I remember waking up screaming at night. What was my name, and should I choose neutral good or chaotic good? I was scarred for life by the experience.