126 réponses à ce sujet

[Sutekh]

Filament wrote...

What ever happened to games with actual tutorials? It's always tutorial levels wedged in at the beginning now.

Actual tutorial like the gym in the old Tomb Raider games? (OK, maybe not the best reference, but the only one I can think of at the moment). Something separate and optional?

[AkiKishi]

Filament wrote...

What ever happened to games with actual tutorials? It's always tutorial levels wedged in at the beginning now.

The arena in Witcher2.

[Nomen Mendax]

Yes please, I got so so sick of replaying the start of ME2 and DA2 just to tinker with my character (and yes that's before I discovered the mirror on the Black Emporium).

And I like the idea of keeping something like the mirror - or at least a store where you can get a new hair style, since I've heard it is actually possible to have more than one hair style in your life ...

[Sutekh]

Filament wrote...

Yeah, like that. I mean, if we want to introduce people to the game before the character creator in a game with a character creator, wouldn't a separate tutorial section be an option worth considering too? Then they wouldn't have to make narrative excuses or cover up the character with a helmet or what-have-you.

I would love that back. If only because it sucks to be taken by the hand step by step when you're on your tenth playthrough or so (Yes, game, I do know how to use a sword. I did understand you the first time. And the second. And the ninth.)

[berelinde]

Nomen Mendax wrote...
And I like the idea of keeping something like the mirror - or at least a store where you can get a new hair style, since I've heard it is actually possible to have more than one hair style in your life ...

Is it? I've been wearing my hair the same way since the '80s. Long hair never goes out of style. But wait. We can't have long hair, can we? In that case, better throw in a Mirror of Transformation.

I do like the idea of a separate tutorial, though. It could serve as a demo for the game. Because I don't care whether it's the Origin story, the Flight from Lothering, or Candlekeep, that tutorial section gets old after a while. BG2 had a separate tutorial, IIRC. It involved Belt, I think.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I would also like to start the game with character creation.

As for the Mirror of Transformation, there's no reason why that needs to be an in-game item. Just give us a menu option to change our appearance without trying to make the feature fit in the game world. It's a metagame feature. Just accept that and put it in a menu.

[Deviija]

Yes, please. Put chargen BEFORE the game begins, or at least go the route of making the character very vague and obscured. For example, the game beings for a brief tutorial, and it has the PC in a very gender-neutral and masking cloak and baggy outfit attire on. Hiding the face and body proportions*. No voice soundbytes or dialogues to give away whether the character is male or female, etc. At least then, when you go into chargen, you haven't trampled on the audience's vision and immersion.

But preferably, I want the character creation to come before the game, like DA:O. Regardless of the explanations and 'unreliable Narrator' excuses and 'the legend of Hawke is interpreted by the masses and details get fuzzy' reasoning, it really is a kick in the teeth for me to start a game (DA2) where you are forced into being a default white protagonist (and family). If that doesn't emphasize a very terrible image of privilege and white-as-default vs. 'otherness,' then I don't know what else does. And it leaves a very disruptive feeling to me not only as a player but a racial minority as well, because the point of these games is to be who you want to be, to make your own PC as you will. Having that defined, even in a fantasy moment of 'storytelling,' is just really poor taste, imo.

Anyway, creation at the beginning, please.

*If there are race choices, then something like a Dwarf PC would ruin this kind of situation due to the shape and height.

Modifié par Deviija, 10 mai 2012 - 08:44 .

[wsandista]

I'm still puzzled that we actually have to talk about this. I mean, shouldn't a character-generator at the beginning be common sense?

[Servo to the bitter end]

You would think so. Hopefully, ME2 and DA2 are the first and last instances of burying it 15 unskippable minutes in.

[PsychoBlonde]

C9316 wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

What I don't understand, is why do all of BioWare's CCs have such poor lighting? I have a high-def tv I play on, and it can still be hard to even tell what some eye colors are clearly until you are actually playing in decent light. Turn up the lights, please!

Yes, listen to Bekkie! She speaks the truth, all the times I had to practically place my head on the TV screen just to see things like eye color, eye shadow. I shouldn't have to do that.

I play on a regular monitor and it drives me NUTS that I can't see how intense my character's lipstick/blush/eyeshadow are before I accept it and check it out in better light.  I'm very picky because even a tiny bit too much "makeup" has me sitting there going OMG CLOWNFACE and trying to hide the shame.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

I enjoyed the idea of starting the game up and diving in... but I would rather make my character first. Unless you do some kind of "face covered by armor" kind of thing. I might be ok with that.

Whoever said the CC needs better lighting wins the forums for today.

[Absafraginlootly]

I agree, I'd rather make my character first, not just for correcting unseen cc horrors but also for rp reasons. If I haven't made my character (not just talking visual but class, personality, outlook etc.) then playing the game feels weird, like I can't quite play it.

For example with oblivion when I started I had already chosen who my character was, why she was imprisoned, what she thought about that etc. So when I played I was thinking what she was thinking about whatever was happening. Whereas in Skyrim it played out the whole traveling in a cart sequence before you got to make your character, so unless you were dam sure what you were going to do you couldn't really roleplay that properly, it felt out of place.

It's similar, though not as bad, with DA2 it still feels out of place but atleast it's not actually meant to be part of what actually happen like with skyrim and ME2. On the other hand atleast skyrim and ME2 don't have a visible default character.

Hoping The Next Thing has the CC before the game starts.

[Yggdrasil]

Cantina wrote...

Oh Maker yes please!

LOL!  I love how you threw in an in-game interjection!

Cantina wrote...

I do not like the default Hawke versions for a long list of reasons. Beyond that, the whole “Flee Lothering” was OK, (I suppose) the first time, but the times after I skipped the never ending cut scenes just to get in the city and PLAY my character. I also felt the “Flee from Lothering” was torture, I hope Dragon Age 3 does not do this again.

Because of a quirk in my personality, I *had* to play the default Hawke.  I would have felt to disconnected from the game otherwise.  So I'd like to go back to the greater amount of choice you had in Origins.  Unfortunately, Bioware's reaffirmation that the protagonist will be fully voiced will continue to limit the character choices in DA3.  It's simply too expensive to hire a team of voice actors to provide more choice and options which is why Hawke had to be human.

As far as the sequence of character creation is concerned, I understand why the developers try to integrate it into the prologue in an attempt to make it more organic to the game.  But no matter what, at some point you're going to break immersion as you're flipping through creation screens, so I agree with the OP.  Just let us make our character and then start the game.

[BioFan (Official)]

JasonPogo wrote...

Just a tip for Bioaware.  I HATE when games make you play through a portion of the game before you get to use the Character Creator.  As anyone that has used one will know your character never looks the same when in actual game then they did in the Creator.  Due to this you normally have to re-make your character a few times before you get them to where you really want them.  Nothing was worse than having to fight through that group of Darkspawn and the Troll over and over again in DA2 just to get the the character creator again.  Don't do it again Bioware.  I beg you.

omg yes please. it was soooo annoying. i get why they did it though, it was to show the "hyped up" and "untrue" version of hawke's story

[Ponendus]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
 Just give us a menu option to change our appearance without trying to make the feature fit in the game world. It's a metagame feature. Just accept that and put it in a menu.

Amen! Why there is this slew of games at the moment that have magical mirrors in your home that you can change your appearance with is beyond me. It's not necessary and often is out of place. If it had to be done I would say the Mirror of Transformation was more interesting than some other attempts, at least the Mirror of Transformation had some lore. However, ultimately it's unecessary as you say.

[areuexperienced]

Didn't they actually release a character creator before DA2 or was it DA:O?

[berelinde]

areuexperienced wrote...

Didn't they actually release a character creator before DA2 or was it DA:O?

DA:O. DA2 was the one that had the demo first.

[mopotter]

I have to agree with this, I did like being able to change things afterwards, but I'd like to have my character set up at the beginning not after the DA2 type intro. Yes, and better lighting.

[Momiji.mii]

I agree with the rest about the need for a CC where you don't have to replay the beginning of the game several times to get it right. If it's possible to put a character creator outside of the actual gameplay, as in accessible from the main menu, then please do it! I think Dragon's Dogma does this (at least in the demo).

Also, releasing it early on, like in a demo or something, where we can create and preferably later import our design of choice, would be cool. I created two neat looks for my femSheps using the ME3 demo, that I later used in the game, saving me a lot of time and trouble once the game arrived and I was itching to begin my first playthrough. Also, it was kind of fun to tinker with the CC while I was waiting for the actual release!

Modifié par Momiji.mii, 13 mai 2012 - 09:43 .

[Eudaemonium]

The mistake they made with both ME2 and DA2 was trying to integrate a metagame feature (chargen) into the game world. In ME2 this was done via the Lazarus Project reconstruction, and in DA2 it was done via Varric's storytelling. I mean, I applaud the attempt at these things, but in general it just gets in the way.

ME3 just went back to the whole chargen before game pattern. If they wanted to continue with the metagame-in-game feature, though, they should have an option menu that is just teh character creator, thus allowing you to create various characters and 'import' them into the main character generator when you start the game.

[KotorEffect3]

I agree it was always weird playing as the default Hawke in the intro before being able to create my own

[SilentK]

Momiji.mii wrote...

I agree with the rest about the need for a CC where you don't have to replay the beginning of the game several times to get it right. If it's possible to put a character creator outside of the actual gameplay, as in accessible from the main menu, then please do it! I think Dragon's Dogma does this (at least in the demo).

Also, releasing it early on, like in a demo or something, where we can create and preferably later import our design of choice, would be cool. I created two neat looks for my femSheps using the ME3 demo, that I later used in the game, saving me a lot of time and trouble once the game arrived and I was itching to begin my first playthrough. Also, it was kind of fun to tinker with the CC while I was waiting for the actual release!

Having the CC available from the menu.... Genious   

Every single time I start a new game in DAII, ME2 or ME3 I spend countless hrs getting the char right. Or rather, I play through the start of the game maany maaany times in order to get to the CC. In ME2 you have to wait until the convo with Jacob to know what FemShep looks like. In ME3 I wait until I get onboard the Normandy. In DAII until you get up on that hill and decide to go to Kirkwall *sigh*

If you had access to the CC from the main meny straight away at least that would shave some time off. Maybe just the shortest possible convo in which you could test how it animates. I would love something like that.

[Uccio]

Seconded what OP said.

Modifié par Ukki, 16 mai 2012 - 06:37 .

[brushyourteeth]

So, do we actually all agree on this? Because that would be.... just.... I have no words.