1114 réponses à ce sujet

[KingZayd]

balance5050 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

"The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither"

actually, i was thinking that could be a way the cycle ends under a face value interpretation, it ends because of the difficulty with reproductivity meaning life ends anyway.

That makes more sense to me actually.

although it does make the stargazer scene a bit problematic.

[balance5050]

KingZayd wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

"The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither"

actually, i was thinking that could be a way the cycle ends under a face value interpretation, it ends because of the difficulty with reproductivity meaning life ends anyway.

That makes more sense to me actually.

although it does make the stargazer scene a bit problematic.

THAT scene is the worst part of the ending for me. The last words of the trilogy: D. L. C.

[QuantumSheep13]

Failed the test? You certainly can't call the ending of ME3 a "test". A "joke", maybe, but not a "test".

[balance5050]

QuantumSheep13 wrote...

Failed the test? You certainly can't call the ending of ME3 a "test". A "joke", maybe, but not a "test".

Ha?

[Aurica]

Sorry OP.  There is no test to begin with.  I don't believe in Indoctrination theory and neither am I convinced of the 3 choices BW gave to us since they are so contrived and nonsensical.  I would personally prefer to keep EDI and the geth alive but I would still pick DESTROY because the Starkid just pisses me off to no end.  

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

balance5050 wrote...

True, but how would this work? All the Krogans change their programming? But then it actually DOES eliminate our individuality and unique traits.

Probably they're just made less impulsive. Animalistic influence reduced.

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 10 mai 2012 - 08:35 .

[Joccaren]

How many people fail at logic by assuming IT is most definitely 100% true, and there can be no other option?

It seems more like you are delusional than we are. Regardless of what you believe the extended cut will bring, the current endings can be taken quite easily at face value, and there if you picked destroy the Turian councillor has a question for you:

"Did you enjoy committing Genocide Shepard?"

How many people were bas***ds and committed Genocide against the Geth in the end?

See, there is more than just the indoctrination side to this debate, no matter how much you try to convince yourselves otherwise.
I'm not going into my choices with the ending. To be honest, I've picked all three at some point or other, and I have no need to discuss whether I failed some imaginary test or not. Simply put, I'm here to tell you to stop being so arrogant with the IT stuff. Sure, say you believe in IT. Don't make titles that imply everyone who doesn't is wrong.

[snfonseka]

Destroy is my option.

[Computron2000]

TSA_383 wrote...

I find the central premise of the indoctrination theory fascinating, because it is interesting to see how many people chose either Control or Synthesis, and in fact, I would have myself, had I not been a bit too suspicious of the reality of the end sequence...

Except that from the EMS required and the fact that 4k EMS for the shepard breathe scene is not availble if your do not use some iphone/ipad app or mp, Synthesis is Bioware's "best" ending not destroy

[Elite Midget]

I expected more to cave in and betray their Shepard but I was pleasently surprised that many here saw reason and picked the only right choice - Destroy.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 10 mai 2012 - 12:29 .

[inert14]

I play Paragon on most playthroughs of ME1, ME2. I like being able to resolve disputes rather than taking sides provided I've done everything correctly.

Destroy is equivalent to taking no sides and killing everything. So naturally, I'd take Control or Synthesis, which gives me the compromise.

...

But I didn't. I picked Destroy and if I could bring myself to play through the last mission again, I would pick it again. Of the options given, it is the only one that doesn't concede to the hilarity of the final minutes.

IT, EC - You can't fix the end of ME3 with this stuff. If everything you did throughout the series is ruined by the ending, your best bet is to burn it, burn it all.

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

Elite Midget wrote...

I expected more to cave in and betray their Shepard but I was pleasently surprised that many here saw reason and picked the only right choice - Destroy.

I think it's quite obvious why.

Most people pick destroy because its:
a) requires the highest EMS, therefore provides most sense of achievement
allows to see Shep alive, therefore most special from three in more then just color of explosion

Everything else are just excuses for above. If Synthesis or Control would require highest EMS and will show breath instead of Destroy, majority of people would not think Destroy is the best. The endings are so ambiguous, you can find excuse for almost anything.

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 10 mai 2012 - 12:59 .

[Geneaux486]

"Shepard has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat."

Not indoctrination, not a test. All three choices result in a victory for the galaxy's races, the only difference is that each choice comes with a different downside.

Also, concerning the Illusive Man's eyes in Mass Effect Evolution:

http://i292.photobuc...ivemanyoung.jpg

They're the same pattern as Renegade Shepard's eyes, and different from what they are in the games, so either the Illusive Man actually got those eyes without being indoctrinated (and we know he wasn't, since he was able to orchestrate the downfall of the Collectors), or Shepard has been indoctrinated since the beginning of Mass Effect 2.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 10 mai 2012 - 02:15 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Geneaux486 wrote...

"Shepard has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat."

Not indoctrination, not a test. All three choices result in a victory for the galaxy's races, the only difference is that each choice comes with a different downside.

BioWare think this is victory, and are imposing that on everyone. 

My Shepard objectives, her criteria for victory, are slightly different to what she actually achieved. 

Sure, the Reapers are defeated......... maybe, and life is saved...... kind of, but I wouldn't call destroying the Relays and stranding her crew and the Normandy on a random planet, with a dozen other possilbe implications for the decision she is forced to make, which may or may not include the eradication of galactic diversity and the forced hypridization of all life, or the destruction of civilization by a Shepard controlled army of Reapers, or the annihiliation of an entire species, a 'victory'.

I'd call that 'What?'.

Yes, I achieved confusion, not victory. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 10 mai 2012 - 02:21 .

[Geneaux486]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

"Shepard has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat."

Not indoctrination, not a test. All three choices result in a victory for the galaxy's races, the only difference is that each choice comes with a different downside.

BioWare think this is victory, and are imposing that on everyone. 

They imposed the entire story on everyone.  It's fictional and they're the ones writing it.

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

Geneaux486 wrote...
They imposed the entire story on everyone.  It's fictional and they're the ones writing it.

True, and it wasn't a cool story.

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 10 mai 2012 - 02:27 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Geneaux486 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

"Shepard has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat."

Not indoctrination, not a test. All three choices result in a victory for the galaxy's races, the only difference is that each choice comes with a different downside.

BioWare think this is victory, and are imposing that on everyone. 

They imposed the entire story on everyone.  It's fictional and they're the ones writing it.

Uhuh, but I don't see them imposing single outcomes on me for anything else. 

Whether victory is achieved is for me to decide, not them, and I've decided that victory has not been achieved. 

[Geneaux486]

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...
They imposed the entire story on everyone.  It's fictional and they're the ones writing it.

True, and it wasn't a cool story.

I respectfully disagree, bro.

Uhuh, but I don't see them imposing single outcomes on me for anything else. 

The Reapers come to the galaxy no matter what.  Saren attacks the Citadel no matter what.  The Collectors are killed no matter what, etc.  The games have always had major plot elements that are simply out of Shepard's control.

Whether victory is achieved is for me to decide, not them, and I've decided that victory has not been achieved. 

And that's your right, but in doing so you're rejecting what is stated in-game, and therefore it has no place in a discussion of the facts.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 10 mai 2012 - 02:35 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Uhuh, but I don't see them imposing single outcomes on me for anything else. 

The Reapers come to the galaxy no matter what.  Saren attacks the Citadel no matter what.  The Collectors are killed no matter what, etc.  The games have always had major plot elements that are simply out of Shepard's control.

I'll rephrase then. 

There's no single specific outcome. There are always variables, ways to interperate, different conclusions. 

Saren always attacks, but then you have the opportunity to convince him he's indoctinated, the opportunity to save the council or let them die, a choice of who should become the councillor. The Collector base is probably the most obvious example of an outcome with variables. 

BioWare are bottlenecking everyone into telling you that victory has been achieved. I don't like that. 

Whether victory is achieved is for me to decide, not them, and I've decided that victory has not been achieved. 

And that's your right, but in doing so you're rejecting what is stated in-game, and therefore it has no place in a discussion of the facts.

It's stated in game, and that's my problem. 

Aside, I didn't actually know we were arguing facts. Talking about the interpretation of victory is clearly the realm of opinion. 

[Geneaux486]

I'll rephrase then.

There's no single specific outcome. There are always variables, ways to interperate, different conclusions.

Right, and the endings to Mass Effect 3 follow that exact format. The effectiveness of each choice, variables, determined by your EMS, each choice having a wildly different outcome (more of which needs to be shown via EC, but that's another debate entirely), and different implications for the future of the galaxy.

Aside, I didn't actually know we were arguing facts. Talking about the interpretation of victory is clearly the realm of opinion.

I apologize, I really have no business telling anyone what does and does not have a place in this here thread since it ain't mine. My point is that your difficulty in deciding whether or not you achieved victory is not the result of the game not telling you one way or the other, because it does.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 10 mai 2012 - 02:57 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Geneaux486 wrote...

I'll rephrase then.

There's no single specific outcome. There are always variables, ways to interperate, different conclusions.

Right, and the endings to Mass Effect 3 follow that exact format. The effectiveness of each choice, variables, determined by your EMS, each choice having a wildly different outcome (more of which needs to be shown via EC, but that's another debate entirely), and different implications for the future of the galaxy.

Yeah I guess I kind of painted myself into a corner on this one. I don't like it because you don't get to see the outcome, and there's stupid little information to speculate on. You choose which door you want to open, and then everything is pretty much identical except for a few different cutscenes. 

Aside, I didn't actually know we were arguing facts. Talking about the interpretation of victory is clearly the realm of opinion.

I apologize, I really have no business telling anyone what does and does not have a place in this here thread since it ain't mine. My point is that your difficulty in deciding whether or not you achieved victory is not the result of the game not telling you one way or the other, because it does.

I know that, my issue is that it tells you one way, and doesn't seem to allow the possibility for anything else. 

[Geneaux486]

I don't like it because you don't get to see the outcome, and there's stupid little information to speculate on. You choose which door you want to open, and then everything is pretty much identical except for a few different cutscenes.

I don't like that either, actually. I hope it's fixed in the EC.

[Gorkan86]

Geneaux486 wrote...

I don't like that either, actually. I hope it's fixed in the EC.

It will.

[The Night Mammoth]

Gorkan86 wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

I don't like that either, actually. I hope it's fixed in the EC.

It will.

Will it?