1114 réponses à ce sujet

[Bill Casey]

I'm a paragon...

There is only one choice...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 11 mai 2012 - 03:03 .

[Hadeedak]

Bill Casey wrote...

You aren't willing to make the hard sacrifice...

That's where the renegade joke came from.

Anyway, no, there's not. The game gives you 3 choices. All of them defeat the reapers and save the galaxy. The game presents this as a fact. There is not only one choice. None of the three are the ONLY right choice.

[JA Shepard]

Assuming that any of the choices are a way out of indoctrination could be flawed thinking. I think all three choices are legit, but if it's a test there should be no right answers.

After taking the shot that Shep takes from Harbinger's blast, is there any reason to believe that Shepard could have any capacity to resist Reaper Indoctrination at that point? It's a miracle that she survived. Even if the injuries aren't life threatening, they have to be serious. If she really is lying on the ground unconscious, then there is more than a little knock on her head as well. How can her mind adequately repel any external threat when it would be working overtime to cope with the sudden trauma her body has suffered?

She should be in shock both physically and mentally. The idea that Shepard would somehow have the wherewithal to not only recognize an attempt at indoctrination, but to also resist it at all, in that condition is really stretching things. I have my opinions about IT but if I consider it to be real for a moment, I'm more inclined to believe that all three options should lead to indoctrination. There shouldn't have been any means of escaping it in Shepard's condition. Even if she wakes up, she'd be done with actual combat for days, if not weeks when they don't have that much time. Even if she can somehow shake off the hit, once she says "The Reapers tried to indoctrinate me, but I'm good now; hand me my gun", Shepard should rightfully be relieved of her command. Worst case, they summarily execute her. Even I might shoot Shepard in that situation. The Reapers should easily win no matter what at this point.

If they have Shepard get right up and go back to fighting in the EC, I don't think I could ever buy it as legit. IT may surprise me and turn out to be the real deal, but there are pitfalls that I worry about. Nothing I'm saying tries to undermine IT's legitimacy because I try to avoid that argument, but there are questions about what this all seems to inevitably lead to that really worry me. I see Indoctrination as one way the endings could actually get worse.

[Unschuld]

JA Shepard wrote...

If they have Shepard get right up and go back to fighting in the EC, I don't think I could ever buy it as legit. IT may surprise me and turn out to be the real deal, but there are pitfalls that I worry about. Nothing I'm saying tries to undermine IT's legitimacy because I try to avoid that argument, but there are questions about what this all seems to inevitably lead to that really worry me. I see Indoctrination as one way the endings could actually get worse.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around how it would work too, with Shepard being pretty messed up in that cutcene and all, but I find it harder to imagine the endings getting worse...

Modifié par Unschuld, 11 mai 2012 - 05:45 .

[TSA_383]

JA Shepard wrote...

Assuming that any of the choices are a way out of indoctrination could be flawed thinking. I think all three choices are legit, but if it's a test there should be no right answers.

After taking the shot that Shep takes from Harbinger's blast, is there any reason to believe that Shepard could have any capacity to resist Reaper Indoctrination at that point? It's a miracle that she survived. Even if the injuries aren't life threatening, they have to be serious. If she really is lying on the ground unconscious, then there is more than a little knock on her head as well. How can her mind adequately repel any external threat when it would be working overtime to cope with the sudden trauma her body has suffered?

She should be in shock both physically and mentally. The idea that Shepard would somehow have the wherewithal to not only recognize an attempt at indoctrination, but to also resist it at all, in that condition is really stretching things. I have my opinions about IT but if I consider it to be real for a moment, I'm more inclined to believe that all three options should lead to indoctrination. There shouldn't have been any means of escaping it in Shepard's condition. Even if she wakes up, she'd be done with actual combat for days, if not weeks when they don't have that much time. Even if she can somehow shake off the hit, once she says "The Reapers tried to indoctrinate me, but I'm good now; hand me my gun", Shepard should rightfully be relieved of her command. Worst case, they summarily execute her. Even I might shoot Shepard in that situation. The Reapers should easily win no matter what at this point.

If they have Shepard get right up and go back to fighting in the EC, I don't think I could ever buy it as legit. IT may surprise me and turn out to be the real deal, but there are pitfalls that I worry about. Nothing I'm saying tries to undermine IT's legitimacy because I try to avoid that argument, but there are questions about what this all seems to inevitably lead to that really worry me. I see Indoctrination as one way the endings could actually get worse.

One thing:
-There is a lot of wind noise in the "Shepard lives" ending, suggesting that it's taking place on earth, rather than on a space station (that's just been vaporised <_<)
HOWEVER
I do think the point you make above is a very good one.

[Geneaux486]

Shepard, EDI and the Geth cannot and should not factor into your decision...

I disagree.

I'm a paragon...

There is only one choice...

There are three.  They all end the Reaper threat.  Message at the end of the game bro.  The information's there, even if the way it's conveyed is bull****.

[balance5050]

Geneaux486 wrote...

There are three.  They all end the Reaper threat.  Message at the end of the game bro.  The information's there, even if the way it's conveyed is bull****.

It's funny because you get that DLC message no matter how crappy of a commander you are. You can literally kill every organic in the galaxy and still get this message.

[Geneaux486]

balance5050 wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

There are three.  They all end the Reaper threat.  Message at the end of the game bro.  The information's there, even if the way it's conveyed is bull****.

It's funny because you get that DLC message no matter how crappy of a commander you are. You can literally kill every organic in the galaxy and still get this message.

If he still becomes a legend then obviously someone survived to remember him.  Within the narrative, even if the Crucible does have such dire effects, it isn't really Shepard's fault.  He was told to plug the thing in and use it, regardless of the risks.

[balance5050]

 Mmm, I'm not so sure you actually activated anything

Modifié par balance5050, 11 mai 2012 - 05:28 .

[soulprovider]

i'm still trying to figure out two things
1) why do people think that only the geth and EDI die in the destroy ending, when the energy wave hits any functional technology(pieces of the victory fleet for example) they burn up and explode, on the ground the same thing happens to all tech
2) what makes people think the reapers are destroyed, if anything I think they are stunned, because the shed the same eerie red light that sovereign shed during ME1 and if you watch the video closely(like still by still) you'll see that the reaper sovereign class ships are sheding this red energy before the red wave hits them which suggests they are preparing for the wave of energy. Also all tech seems destroyed while non tech structures are intact, and perhaps the most damming peice of evidence is that if the ems is high enough shepard lives, isn't shepard a synthetic organic hybrid, doesn't this mean that if shepard can survive that energy way so to can the reapers since they are synthetic organic hybrids. I said this before but people missed it, if anything I think the reapers took a nap during the destroy ending to so the victory fleet would get wiped out and they could finish their harvest at their leisure, and traveling for them is simple plus they could take all the time in the world to rebuild the relays and the citadel since once the cycles complete no one will know they are there.

[Geneaux486]

balance5050 wrote...

 Mmm, I'm not so sure you actually activated anything

Concrete doesn't only grow in London.

[KevShep]

Geneaux486 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

 Mmm, I'm not so sure you actually activated anything

Concrete doesn't only grow in London.

Maybe you forgot that the game makes it clear that the entire battle in london is nothing BUT concrete blocks EVERYWHERE!

Watch youtube videos again and you will see that the ENTIRE london is like that.

Modifié par KevShep, 11 mai 2012 - 05:46 .

[balance5050]

Geneaux486 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

 Mmm, I'm not so sure you actually activated anything

Concrete doesn't only grow in London.

I didn't know concrete grew anywhere....

There wasn't any concrete in the part of the citadel you were on. The Citadel is made from "an unknown resistant material, the same material the relays are made from. The relays have withstood the wake of super novas"

http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/Citadel 

Modifié par balance5050, 11 mai 2012 - 05:44 .

[TSA_383]

Geneaux486 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

 Mmm, I'm not so sure you actually activated anything

Concrete doesn't only grow in London.

Hate to break it to you, but concrete doesn't grow anywhere.
I'd say the bigger deal is the fact that outer space is relatively famous for its lack of ambient wind noise.

Hadeedak wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

You aren't willing to make the hard sacrifice...

That's where the renegade joke came from. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

Anyway,
no, there's not. The game gives you 3 choices. All of them defeat the
reapers and save the galaxy. The game presents this as a fact. There is
not only one choice. None of the three are the ONLY right choice.

We've been told the ending is supposed to encourage speculation, and be a bit open to interpretation. Do you REALLY think the DLC prompt is the be-all message you expect?

You may want all the endings to be equal, but they're not. Sorry.
Bioware don't agree:

http://i638.photobuc...ice_BadA_01.jpg
http://i638.photobuc.../controlend.jpg

[Geneaux486]

KevShep wrote...
Maybe you forgot that the game makes it clear that the entire battle in london is nothing BUT concrete blocks EVERYWHERE!

Watch youtube videos again and you will see that the ENTIRE london is like that.

And Shepard is clearly on the Citadel when the Crucible fires, ergo he's on the Citadel when he takes that breath.

Hate to break it to you, but concrete doesn't grow anywhere.

I was being facetious.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 11 mai 2012 - 05:54 .

[balance5050]

Geneaux486 wrote...

KevShep wrote...
Maybe you forgot that the game makes it clear that the entire battle in london is nothing BUT concrete blocks EVERYWHERE!

Watch youtube videos again and you will see that the ENTIRE london is like that.

And Shepard is clearly on the Citadel when the Crucible fires, ergo he's on the Citadel when he takes that breath.

Hate to break it to you, but concrete doesn't grow anywhere.

I was being facetious.

No, if he was on the Citadel he would have been vaporized by the multi-kiloton explosion.

 

[Geneaux486]

balance5050 wrote...
No, if he was on the Citadel he would have been vaporized by the multi-kiloton explosion.

He was on the Citadel, and he wasn't vaporized in the best destroy ending.  How he survived the Citadel breaking apart, anyone's guess, but he did.  Soldiers on the ground got hit by the same blast and were also unharmed.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 11 mai 2012 - 06:04 .

[KevShep]

Geneaux486 wrote...

KevShep wrote...
Maybe you forgot that the game makes it clear that the entire battle in london is nothing BUT concrete blocks EVERYWHERE!

Watch youtube videos again and you will see that the ENTIRE london is like that.

And Shepard is clearly on the Citadel when the Crucible fires, ergo he's on the Citadel when he takes that breath.

Hate to break it to you, but concrete doesn't grow anywhere.

I was being facetious.

He is not on the citadel because the destroy ending destroys reaper tech (including the citadel and its power) and when shepard pick it, he is in a vaccume. No human being can breath in a vaccume!

[Geneaux486]

KevShep wrote...
He is not on the citadel because the destroy ending destroys reaper tech (including the citadel and its power) and when shepard pick it, he is in a vaccume. No human being can breath in a vaccume!

He was outside when he fired the Crucible.  Whatever emergency functions on the Citadel, kinetic barriers or similar, that kept him alive until he made his choice are probably still active.

[balance5050]

Geneaux486 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
No, if he was on the Citadel he would have been vaporized by the multi-kiloton explosion.

He was on the Citadel, and he wasn't vaporized in the best destroy ending.  Soldiers on the ground got hit by the same blast and were also unharmed.

No, you're mistaken. The soldiers on Earth were hit by the red wave, this explosion happens after and is centered right where Shepard is standing. Red wave, red beam, THEN the multi kiloton explosion. You can review it here:

[KevShep]

Geneaux486 wrote...

KevShep wrote...
He is not on the citadel because the destroy ending destroys reaper tech (including the citadel and its power) and when shepard pick it, he is in a vaccume. No human being can breath in a vaccume!

He was outside when he fired the Crucible.  Whatever emergency functions on the Citadel, kinetic barriers or similar, that kept him alive until he made his choice are probably still active.

Not when there is concrete all around him and a book shelf in the background this was NOT anywhere near Shepards location. 

[Geneaux486]

balance5050 wrote...
No, you're mistaken. The soldiers on Earth were hit by the red wave, this explosion happens after and is centered right where Shepard is standing. Red wave, red beam, THEN the multi kiloton explosion. You can review it here:

You are speculating as to the lethality of the explosion.  Since Shepard survives it, clearly it isn't as powerful as you think, or Shepard was somehow protected by Citadel emergency functions.  Bioware has stated that this was at least the case for those in the ward arms.

Not when there is concrete all around him and a book shelf in the background this was NOT anywhere near Shepards location. 

 
Well first of all, you assume it's concrete, but we do not know for sure.  Secondly, he would have had to have teleported during the exposion to be back in London, which is far less likely than him simply still being on board the Citadel.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 11 mai 2012 - 06:11 .

[balance5050]

 I don't think there was a Mako on the citadel



 

[KevShep]

Geneaux486 wrote...

 
Well first of all, you assume it's concrete, but we do not know for sure.  Secondly, he would have had to have teleported during the exposion to be back in London, which is far less likely than him simply still being on board the Citadel.

Wow..You dont understand the I.T. do you?

[balance5050]

Geneaux486 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
No, you're mistaken. The soldiers on Earth were hit by the red wave, this explosion happens after and is centered right where Shepard is standing. Red wave, red beam, THEN the multi kiloton explosion. You can review it here:

You are speculating as to the lethality of the explosion.  Since Shepard survives it, clearly it isn't as powerful as you think, or Shepard was somehow protected by Citadel emergency functions.  Bioware has stated that this was at least the case for those in the ward arms.

If it's powerful enough to break apart "unknown resistant material" that can with stand supernova wakes, there is no way shep would live WITH NO ARMOR OR HELMET.

I'm just telling you what makes sense to me, you can go on believing he's there though;)