1114 réponses à ce sujet

[Geneaux486]

I don't think there was a Mako on the citadel

I don't see how there's a Mako among the wreckage either. Vague shapes, nothing definite.

Wow..You dont understand the I.T. do you?

It's based on circumstantial "evidence" that is contradicted by what we see in the ending cinematics and the out of game message afterwards.

I'm just telling you what makes sense to me, you can go on believing he's there though

It makes less sense that he'd be in London than if he were still on the Citadel.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 11 mai 2012 - 06:16 .

[KevShep]

balance5050 wrote...

 I don't think there was a Mako on the citadel



 

Holy Crap..is that really a mako?

[Geneaux486]

KevShep wrote...
Holy Crap..is that really a mako?

Nope.

[balance5050]

 This should help show that not everything in the game LITERALLY happens, some things are metophorical, some things are symbolic.

Dreams


http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing



Geth consensus:






The ending sequence:


   

[Geneaux486]

balance5050 wrote...

 This should help show that not everything in the game LITERALLY happens, some things are metophorical, some things are symbolic.   

Symbolic, yes.  The ending being an illusion, no.

[KevShep]

Geneaux486 wrote...


It's based on circumstantial "evidence" that is contradicted by what we see in the ending cinematics and the out of game message afterwards.

It makes less sense that he'd be in London than if he were still on the Citadel.

The I.T. states that after he is hit by harbingers beam the screen goes white (like in the dreams you have) you are then in a dream that you think is real but that is when things to crap because its an illusion by the reapers.

[balance5050]

 Earth





Shepard Alive scene:

[Geneaux486]

KevShep wrote...
The I.T. states that after he is hit by harbingers beam the screen goes white (like in the dreams you have) you are then in a dream that you think is real but that is when things to crap because its an illusion by the reapers.

I'm aware.  This is contradicted by the fact that the game outright tells you that it really happened.  The stargazer confirms it, then the game itself literally spells it out for you.

Shepard Alive scene:

Yes, debris has cracks in it.  That doesn't = London.  In fact, the floor you walk on during the final choice on the Citadel has a pattern very similar to the debris Shepard wakes up in, including the lines therein.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 11 mai 2012 - 06:24 .

[balance5050]

Geneaux486 wrote...

KevShep wrote...
The I.T. states that after he is hit by harbingers beam the screen goes white (like in the dreams you have) you are then in a dream that you think is real but that is when things to crap because its an illusion by the reapers.

I'm aware.  This is contradicted by the fact that the game outright tells you that it really happened.  The stargazer confirms it, then the game itself literally spells it out for you.

That message says DLC, so it's not actually part of the story, it only serves as an advertisement for DLC.


It's not like Garrus goes, "if only we could get some DLC so we could retake Palaven.

The Mention of DLC indicated that this is not a "lore friendly" message.

[Geneaux486]

balance5050 wrote...
The Mention of DLC indicated that this is not a "lore friendly" message.

Incorrect.  The mention of DLC indicates that it is an out of game message, one that both mentions DLC and confirms that Shepard ended the Reaper threat.  You can reject it if you want, I don't mind.  Me, I'll stick with the facts.

[balance5050]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Shepard Alive scene:

Yes, debris has cracks in it.  That doesn't = London.  In fact, the floor you walk on during the final choice on the Citadel has a pattern very similar to the debris Shepard wakes up in, including the lines therein.

No it's completely different because it's shiny metal. You can even see strang tree reflections in it:


http://img72.imagesh...5148/treees.png 




http://i.imgur.com/RIIzj.jpg 

  

Modifié par balance5050, 11 mai 2012 - 06:28 .

[Geneaux486]

balance5050 wrote...
No it's completely different because it's shiny metal. You can even see strang tree reflections in it:

Some of the debris is shiny as well, as much of it as is caught in actual light.  Notice how the floor doesn't show Shepard's reflection either. 

[balance5050]

Geneaux486 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
The Mention of DLC indicated that this is not a "lore friendly" message.

Incorrect.  The mention of DLC indicates that it is an out of game message, one that both mentions DLC and confirms that Shepard ended the Reaper threat.  You can reject it if you want, I don't mind.  Me, I'll stick with the facts.

I'll stick with "in game" facts and DLC indicates that it's only a chessy message to reassure people that they can "expand the legend through DLC"

[Geneaux486]

balance5050 wrote...
I'll stick with "in game" facts and DLC indicates that it's only a chessy message to reassure people that they can "expand the legend through DLC"

By "out of game" I meant "outside of the story".  Shepard ending the Reaper threat is still an "in-game" fact.  Honestly, I'm not saying Indoctrination Theory is impossible, and I'd be downright impressed with the people who subscribe to it if it winds up being true, but I simply don't see enough evidence to support it in the face of all the evidence that contradicts it.  Even if it ain't true, I hope you guys still find something to like about the EC.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 11 mai 2012 - 06:33 .

[balance5050]

Geneaux486 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
No it's completely different because it's shiny metal. You can even see strang tree reflections in it:

Some of the debris is shiny as well, as much of it as is caught in actual light.  Notice how the floor doesn't show Shepard's reflection either. 

There are some shiny things in London, everything would be shiny if it were the citadel and he couldn't have with stood an explosion that break that stuff apart anyway.

[Geneaux486]

balance5050 wrote...
There are some shiny things in London, everything would be shiny if it were the citadel and he couldn't have with stood an explosion that break that stuff apart anyway.

All an assumption, no proof.  I'm gonna get some shuteye, check back with ya'll tommorow

Modifié par Geneaux486, 11 mai 2012 - 06:36 .

[balance5050]

Geneaux486 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
I'll stick with "in game" facts and DLC indicates that it's only a chessy message to reassure people that they can "expand the legend through DLC"

By "out of game" I meant "outside of the story".  Shepard ending the Reaper threat is still an "in-game" fact.  Honestly, I'm not saying Indoctrination Theory is impossible, and I'd be downright impressed with the people who subscribe to it if it winds up being true, but I simply don't see enough evidence to support it in the fact of all the evidence that contradicts it.  Even if it ain't true, I hope you guys still find something to like about the EC.

Right, I'm only talking about things that are "inside the story"

If you're interested, this cover's "most" of the I.T. evidence, since you haven't seen enough.



    
All I want is for the EC to be good as well, it would just be amazing if it tied in with "The Arrival" DLC and the themes that they have been hammering into our heads for 5 years.

Modifié par balance5050, 11 mai 2012 - 06:45 .

[balance5050]

Geneaux486 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
There are some shiny things in London, everything would be shiny if it were the citadel and he couldn't have with stood an explosion that break that stuff apart anyway.

All an assumption, no proof.  I'm gonna get some shuteye, check back with ya'll tommorow

Nighty night. Sweet "dreams".....

[KevShep]

Geneaux486 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

 This should help show that not everything in the game LITERALLY happens, some things are metophorical, some things are symbolic.   

Symbolic, yes.  The ending being an illusion, no.

Here is some of the evidence...

1 Shepards voice is in the catalysts own voice mimicking him meaning that shepard is reapeating what the catalsyt is saying throught the catalsyt himself! This is odd because it clearly states that it is in shepards head! Speculations

2 If you pick control or synthesis shepard eyes turn into the illusive mans eyes. Why? This is not how TIM got his eyes! If you pick synthesis then your eyes should turn green but they dont...They turn into the illusive mans eyes! The game is giving us a clue! Speculations!

3. The rachni queen says that indoctrination is like seeing "Oily Shadows". We see oily shadows of people in our dreams. Speculations

4. The kid...He is in our dreams and at the end of the third dream we are given a warning...dont listen to the kid! You...will...Burn! Guess what?...You do in fact burn up if you trust the kid(control/synthesis)! It is not explaned why the catalyst looks like that...Speculations!

5.The normandy running...nuf said! Speculations!

6. Squadmates teleporting also nuf said. Speculations!

7.You hear the same music at the end (catalsyt part and of the walk to the beam) as you do in the dream parts. Speculations!

8. After you get hit by the beam TIM/Anderson/Catalyst/Shepard ALL have an odd eco in there voice! This eco is the same eco as you hear in your dreams from your squadmates! Speculations!

9.When you see the relays blowing up at the end on the galaxy map thing, did you notice where the game is saying that earth is? The game is saying that its at the edge of our galaxy...this is where the Arrival DLC was at! Speculations!

10.Shepard in Londons rubble and not on the citadel because he cant breath in a vaccume as well as it being concrete. Speculations!

Modifié par KevShep, 11 mai 2012 - 06:44 .

[liggy002]

What did I miss? Another IT Argument? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[balance5050]

liggy002 wrote...

What did I miss? Another IT Argument? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Yeah, they always end the same.

[TSA_383]

Geneaux486 wrote...

KevShep wrote...
Holy Crap..is that really a mako?

Nope.

You say that with a great deal of confidence...
I'd like you to explain a couple of things to me.
If we go with the literal ending interpretation, then control is arguably a "good" ending, shepard sacrifices him/herself to save everyone.

So, why does it do this:
http://1.bp.blogspot...00/shepeyes.png

And why do bioware consider it a "bad" ending?
http://i638.photobuc...ice_BadA_01.jpg
http://i638.photobuc.../controlend.jpg

Why is Anderson portrayed as the "renegade" choice?

Why do you trust the catalyst at all? Given that it allegedly controls the reapers and therefore has been trying to wipe out the human race for three whole games.

How do you reason that the ending scene is real with the shep alive scene, given that:
-Shep would have been at the very epicentre of a high-powered explosion... in outer space.
-There is a large amount of wind noise, something not possible in space.

I don't think we're right on the money here out of some bloody-minded desire to feel better about the endings, with all I've seen I actually think the endings were quite clever... but I can't think of any way that ending sequence could have been real...

Modifié par TSA_383, 11 mai 2012 - 07:05 .

[Hadeedak]

balance5050 wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

What did I miss? Another IT Argument? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Yeah, they always end the same.

Not enough evidence one way or the other, can be argued either way, hard to make definitive statements if we accept a starting point where nothing is definitive?

Wheee!

Pretty much usual.

We went over the eyes earlier in the thread, by the by.

Modifié par Hadeedak, 11 mai 2012 - 07:05 .

[TSA_383]

Hadeedak wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

What did I miss? Another IT Argument? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Yeah, they always end the same.

Not enough evidence one way or the other, can be argued either way, hard to make definitive statements if we accept a starting point where nothing is definitive?

Wheee!

Pretty much usual.

We went over the eyes earlier in the thread, by the by.

How's this:
If you can come some way towards debunking all the points in my post above yours, I'll send you $6.66 over paypal as a token of you being a more awesome person

Modifié par TSA_383, 11 mai 2012 - 07:07 .

[Hadeedak]

Reused models, since there's one destroyed eye model that moves in game, and it's TIM's. Using renegade eyes would remove the punch for a renegade Shep. Alternatively, the REAPER TECH has REAPER SIDE EFFECTS. PANIC. Clearly it still works, since the reapers leave and you win.

Digging through game files can yield a lot of nonsense.


Anderson is shown as the 'renegade' choice because destroy is more pragmatic and ruthless, and sacrifices the geth, EDI, the relays and the Citadel instead of Shepard.

You trust the Catalyst because the game punishes you if you don't, and Shepard does, just as you do with the 'destroy' ending. And the game's ending shows that in all cases, it was well placed trust.

Since people in the wards lived through destroy, I'm not quite sure why Shepard couldn't.