1114 réponses à ce sujet

[Hadeedak]

Also. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. PLEASE. YOU'RE. THEIR.

Ahem. That was irrelevant.

The eyes may be simply the most practical. Assuming they do mean "Hey, you're doing what TIM did", so what? Clearly, it works. And Shepard pulls it off where he couldn't. And control, as stands, preserves the status quo and best fits a classic heroic sacrifice, which, to be honest, is the big reason I like it. The only person who suffers for Shepard's control choice is Shepard. Not synthetics. Not the galaxy (though whether they suffer is subject to debate).

[KevShep]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

KevShep wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Sorry but as it stands the IT still makes no sense because it means ME3 is not over... so until I see the "REAL" ending, IT does not exist, so blue remains the least homicidal and hypocrite choice.

Thats sad..because it really is neat.

Second you sound like your mad at the Idea!

I originally thought Control was the better ending after seeing the other two for the same reasons. But it didn't feel like the right choice, it didn't even feel like a paragon choice especially with the Illusive Man being showcased about it. It felt almost like a renegade option choosing something The Illusive Man was hellbent on obtaining, regardless of your choices.

And interesting thing to think about, the destroy ending, you're told "You can wipe out all syntehtic life, indlucing the Geth, even you are partly synthetic," he implies you will die, but it's the only way to unlock Shepard's breath so Shepard obviously survives that choice, so I think it's possible (if Indoctrination Theory is false) the Geth survive too simply by NOT being Reapers. The Crucible energy could have specifically targetting Reaper signals, even if the Geth have Reaper upgrades they are not the same as  Reapers otherwise they'd have joined them in fighting organics.

The crucible is not for us to use, its for the reapers to use...

If you notice the parts where you make your choices you will see that they are on the citadel said of the crucible/citadel. this means that it was not thought up by organic originally since ONLY the crucible design was thought to be organic made. Also its the citadel that is firing, not the crucible.

If it was organic made then they would have to redesign the citadel to get the crucible to power the citadel to fire! this did not happen! How also did the plans magiclly survive EVERY SINGLE cycle without the reapers destroying it?

[Mobius-Silent]

I chose all three, I think green was first, The moment the starchild destroyed the plot of ME1 I had no investiture in what was being presented, I was just watching moving pictures. That said, given how bad all three endings are I don't see any reason to argue that one ending was better or worse than the other.

[KevShep]

Hadeedak wrote...

Also. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. PLEASE. YOU'RE. THEIR.

Ahem. That was irrelevant.

The eyes may be simply the most practical. Assuming they do mean "Hey, you're doing what TIM did", so what? Clearly, it works. And Shepard pulls it off where he couldn't. And control, as stands, preserves the status quo and best fits a classic heroic sacrifice, which, to be honest, is the big reason I like it. The only person who suffers for Shepard's control choice is Shepard. Not synthetics. Not the galaxy (though whether they suffer is subject to debate).

Did you ever stop to think that I would have never thought of joining TIM? Yet in ME3 there you are joining him! Only a reaper could get you to doubt your own beliefs and accept it..even after convincing Saren to rejcet it. You also got TIM to reject it, and here you are taking a boy you dont understand and actually believing him even thought he is the HEAD reaper and giving in to what the reaper is "suggesting"!   

Shocking!

[DarkSeraphym]

KevShep wrote...

If it was organic made then they would have to redesign the citadel to get the crucible to power the citadel to fire! this did not happen! How also did the plans magiclly survive EVERY SINGLE cycle without the reapers destroying it?

I think the answer to your last question is pretty simple. The Crucible is an idea. Once upon a time, the Catholic Church used to burn documents containing heretical and dangerous ideas to their faith. You can still find the majority of the works that they sought to eradicate in the classic sections of just about any book store. My point is that ideas seem to be impossible to destroy.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 11 mai 2012 - 09:10 .

[MadRabbit999]

KevShep wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Also. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. PLEASE. YOU'RE. THEIR.

Ahem. That was irrelevant.

The eyes may be simply the most practical. Assuming they do mean "Hey, you're doing what TIM did", so what? Clearly, it works. And Shepard pulls it off where he couldn't. And control, as stands, preserves the status quo and best fits a classic heroic sacrifice, which, to be honest, is the big reason I like it. The only person who suffers for Shepard's control choice is Shepard. Not synthetics. Not the galaxy (though whether they suffer is subject to debate).

Did you ever stop to think that I would have never thought of joining TIM? Yet in ME3 there you are joining him! Only a reaper could get you to doubt your own beliefs and accept it..even after convincing Saren to rejcet it. You also got TIM to reject it, and here you are taking a boy you dont understand and actually believing him even thought he is the HEAD reaper and giving in to what the reaper is "suggesting"!   

Shocking!

Difference being you are not joining TIM... even the catalyst tells you, he was wrong.. because he was already being controlled, even thoguh it appears you are doing what TIM wanted to do, I believe you are doing it with different intend and mind than TIM, enough to make a difference.

[KevShep]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

KevShep wrote...

If it was organic made then they would have to redesign the citadel to get the crucible to power the citadel to fire! this did not happen! How also did the plans magiclly survive EVERY SINGLE cycle without the reapers destroying it?

I think the answer to your last question is pretty simple. The Crucible is an idea. The Catholic Church used to burn documents containing heretical and dangerous ideas to their faith. You can still find the majority of the works that they sought to eradicate in the classic sections of just about any book store.

no the whole thing is there... Every race has put there design into it meaning that the reapers NEVER got a hold of it in any cycle.

[KevShep]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Also. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. PLEASE. YOU'RE. THEIR.

Ahem. That was irrelevant.

The eyes may be simply the most practical. Assuming they do mean "Hey, you're doing what TIM did", so what? Clearly, it works. And Shepard pulls it off where he couldn't. And control, as stands, preserves the status quo and best fits a classic heroic sacrifice, which, to be honest, is the big reason I like it. The only person who suffers for Shepard's control choice is Shepard. Not synthetics. Not the galaxy (though whether they suffer is subject to debate).

Did you ever stop to think that I would have never thought of joining TIM? Yet in ME3 there you are joining him! Only a reaper could get you to doubt your own beliefs and accept it..even after convincing Saren to rejcet it. You also got TIM to reject it, and here you are taking a boy you dont understand and actually believing him even thought he is the HEAD reaper and giving in to what the reaper is "suggesting"!   

Shocking!

Difference being you are not joining TIM... even the catalyst tells you, he was wrong.. because he was already being controlled, even thoguh it appears you are doing what TIM wanted to do, I believe you are doing it with different intend and mind than TIM, enough to make a difference.

No he does not, the catalsyt says that hes is right!  You forget that your talking to a reaper! Your enemy! Not your friend! You believe that it will make a difference just like TIM did! Now we see Bioware's artistic intergity!

Did you stop to think that this is a reaper? The main one at that!

[MadRabbit999]

KevShep wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Also. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. PLEASE. YOU'RE. THEIR.

Ahem. That was irrelevant.

The eyes may be simply the most practical. Assuming they do mean "Hey, you're doing what TIM did", so what? Clearly, it works. And Shepard pulls it off where he couldn't. And control, as stands, preserves the status quo and best fits a classic heroic sacrifice, which, to be honest, is the big reason I like it. The only person who suffers for Shepard's control choice is Shepard. Not synthetics. Not the galaxy (though whether they suffer is subject to debate).

Did you ever stop to think that I would have never thought of joining TIM? Yet in ME3 there you are joining him! Only a reaper could get you to doubt your own beliefs and accept it..even after convincing Saren to rejcet it. You also got TIM to reject it, and here you are taking a boy you dont understand and actually believing him even thought he is the HEAD reaper and giving in to what the reaper is "suggesting"!   

Shocking!

Difference being you are not joining TIM... even the catalyst tells you, he was wrong.. because he was already being controlled, even thoguh it appears you are doing what TIM wanted to do, I believe you are doing it with different intend and mind than TIM, enough to make a difference.

No he does not, the catalsyt says that hes is right!  You forget that your talking to a reaper! Your enemy! Not your friend! You believe that it will make a difference just like TIM did! Now we see Bioware's artistic intergity!

Did you stop to think that this is a reaper? The main one at that!

Except he says "The Cruvible changed us"... so he coudl be telling the truth.

Yes TIM WAS right.. but TIM wanted to do it for his own selfish needs that is why he failed, Shepard does it for the good of the galaxy.. so again, I personally beleive there is a big difference there.. TIM would ahve most likely used the reaper to become space Hitler.

[KevShep]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Also. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. PLEASE. YOU'RE. THEIR.

Ahem. That was irrelevant.

The eyes may be simply the most practical. Assuming they do mean "Hey, you're doing what TIM did", so what? Clearly, it works. And Shepard pulls it off where he couldn't. And control, as stands, preserves the status quo and best fits a classic heroic sacrifice, which, to be honest, is the big reason I like it. The only person who suffers for Shepard's control choice is Shepard. Not synthetics. Not the galaxy (though whether they suffer is subject to debate).

Did you ever stop to think that I would have never thought of joining TIM? Yet in ME3 there you are joining him! Only a reaper could get you to doubt your own beliefs and accept it..even after convincing Saren to rejcet it. You also got TIM to reject it, and here you are taking a boy you dont understand and actually believing him even thought he is the HEAD reaper and giving in to what the reaper is "suggesting"!   

Shocking!

Difference being you are not joining TIM... even the catalyst tells you, he was wrong.. because he was already being controlled, even thoguh it appears you are doing what TIM wanted to do, I believe you are doing it with different intend and mind than TIM, enough to make a difference.

No he does not, the catalsyt says that hes is right!  You forget that your talking to a reaper! Your enemy! Not your friend! You believe that it will make a difference just like TIM did! Now we see Bioware's artistic intergity!

Did you stop to think that this is a reaper? The main one at that!

Except he says "The Cruvible changed us"... so he coudl be telling the truth.

Yes TIM WAS right.. but TIM wanted to do it for his own selfish needs that is why he failed, Shepard does it for the good of the galaxy.. so again, I personally beleive there is a big difference there.. TIM would ahve most likely used the reaper to become space Hitler.

No TIM did it for humanity. Weather you did it for this reason or that reason its still the same thing and your eyes tell you that when you pick control! You picked the same thing no matter what your intentions are. Again your taking the advice of a reaper! Everyone is quick to forget this because he is as the little boy and you dont have much intel on anyting. This makes you more able to give in to his suggestions!

[DarkSeraphym]

KevShep wrote...

no the whole thing is there... Every race has put there design into it meaning that the reapers NEVER got a hold of it in any cycle.

"Never" is a pretty certain term and I do not see how that conclusion can be drawn based upon the premise. For all we know, the Reapers did discover the plans for the Crucible and thought that it was not a threat. Keep in mind that prior to the current cycle, the Crucible would have never worked anyway because it lacked the ability to stop the Reapers without the Catalyst. Once the Reapers discovered that the current cycle knew what the Catalyst was, they opted to take it to Earth in order to defend it. Similarly, I doubt the Reapers counted on the possibility of failure anyway.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 11 mai 2012 - 09:30 .

[KevShep]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

KevShep wrote...

no the whole thing is there... Every race has put there design into it meaning that the reapers NEVER got a hold of it in any cycle.

I do not see how that conclusion can be drawn based upon the premise. For all we know, the Reapers did discover the plans for the Crucible and thought that it was not a threat. Keep in mind that prior to the current cycle, the Crucible would have never worked anyway because it lacked the ability to stop the Reapers without the Catalyst. Once the Reapers discovered that the current cycle knew what the Catalyst was, they opted to take it to Earth in order to defend it. Similarly, I doubt the Reapers counted on the possibility of failure anyway.

Your missing the part of this whole thing that makes it odd...the most crucial parts of the crucible are not even on the crucible, there on the citadel side! this means that the citadel was designed to use the crucible which means that it was reaper that designed it!

[Titus Thongger]

I picked control the first time. but when I saw Shepard turning into a husk I was like 'OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE!?!?!!??!'

[MadRabbit999]

KevShep wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Also. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. PLEASE. YOU'RE. THEIR.

Ahem. That was irrelevant.

The eyes may be simply the most practical. Assuming they do mean "Hey, you're doing what TIM did", so what? Clearly, it works. And Shepard pulls it off where he couldn't. And control, as stands, preserves the status quo and best fits a classic heroic sacrifice, which, to be honest, is the big reason I like it. The only person who suffers for Shepard's control choice is Shepard. Not synthetics. Not the galaxy (though whether they suffer is subject to debate).

Did you ever stop to think that I would have never thought of joining TIM? Yet in ME3 there you are joining him! Only a reaper could get you to doubt your own beliefs and accept it..even after convincing Saren to rejcet it. You also got TIM to reject it, and here you are taking a boy you dont understand and actually believing him even thought he is the HEAD reaper and giving in to what the reaper is "suggesting"!   

Shocking!

Difference being you are not joining TIM... even the catalyst tells you, he was wrong.. because he was already being controlled, even thoguh it appears you are doing what TIM wanted to do, I believe you are doing it with different intend and mind than TIM, enough to make a difference.

No he does not, the catalsyt says that hes is right!  You forget that your talking to a reaper! Your enemy! Not your friend! You believe that it will make a difference just like TIM did! Now we see Bioware's artistic intergity!

Did you stop to think that this is a reaper? The main one at that!

Except he says "The Cruvible changed us"... so he coudl be telling the truth.

Yes TIM WAS right.. but TIM wanted to do it for his own selfish needs that is why he failed, Shepard does it for the good of the galaxy.. so again, I personally beleive there is a big difference there.. TIM would ahve most likely used the reaper to become space Hitler.

No TIM did it for humanity. Weather you did it for this reason or that reason its still the same thing and your eyes tell you that when you pick control! You picked the same thing no matter what your intentions are. Again your taking the advice of a reaper! Everyone is quick to forget this because he is as the little boy and you dont have much intel on anyting. This makes you more able to give in to his suggestions!

Right. .so you believe everything TIM says now?

How can you not believe the Catalyst but believe TIM intentions, of "helping" humanity?

You are not taking advice of a reaper anyhow, the Catalyst created the reapers... and msot likely the whole thing got out of hand making everybody a bit more homicidal than their original purpose.. but the Crucible changed this, at least for the head of the reapers, which again, is not a "reaper".

[KevShep]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Also. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. PLEASE. YOU'RE. THEIR.

Ahem. That was irrelevant.

The eyes may be simply the most practical. Assuming they do mean "Hey, you're doing what TIM did", so what? Clearly, it works. And Shepard pulls it off where he couldn't. And control, as stands, preserves the status quo and best fits a classic heroic sacrifice, which, to be honest, is the big reason I like it. The only person who suffers for Shepard's control choice is Shepard. Not synthetics. Not the galaxy (though whether they suffer is subject to debate).

Did you ever stop to think that I would have never thought of joining TIM? Yet in ME3 there you are joining him! Only a reaper could get you to doubt your own beliefs and accept it..even after convincing Saren to rejcet it. You also got TIM to reject it, and here you are taking a boy you dont understand and actually believing him even thought he is the HEAD reaper and giving in to what the reaper is "suggesting"!   

Shocking!

Difference being you are not joining TIM... even the catalyst tells you, he was wrong.. because he was already being controlled, even thoguh it appears you are doing what TIM wanted to do, I believe you are doing it with different intend and mind than TIM, enough to make a difference.

No he does not, the catalsyt says that hes is right!  You forget that your talking to a reaper! Your enemy! Not your friend! You believe that it will make a difference just like TIM did! Now we see Bioware's artistic intergity!

Did you stop to think that this is a reaper? The main one at that!

Except he says "The Cruvible changed us"... so he coudl be telling the truth.

Yes TIM WAS right.. but TIM wanted to do it for his own selfish needs that is why he failed, Shepard does it for the good of the galaxy.. so again, I personally beleive there is a big difference there.. TIM would ahve most likely used the reaper to become space Hitler.

No TIM did it for humanity. Weather you did it for this reason or that reason its still the same thing and your eyes tell you that when you pick control! You picked the same thing no matter what your intentions are. Again your taking the advice of a reaper! Everyone is quick to forget this because he is as the little boy and you dont have much intel on anyting. This makes you more able to give in to his suggestions!

Right. .so you believe everything TIM says now?

How can you not believe the Catalyst but believe TIM intentions, of "helping" humanity?

You are not taking advice of a reaper anyhow, the Catalyst created the reapers... and msot likely the whole thing got out of hand making everybody a bit more homicidal than their original purpose.. but the Crucible changed this, at least for the head of the reapers, which again, is not a "reaper".

Would you have listen to the catalsyt if he appeared as Harbinger or another reaper? Most likely no. TIM was always a tragic hero that tried to do the right thing. Do I believe in everything that TIM says? Hell No! Hes a mad man, but his intentions are clear enough to make the assumption. The catalyst views are the same as any reaper!

[DarkSeraphym]

KevShep wrote...

Your missing the part of this whole thing that makes it odd...the most crucial parts of the crucible are not even on the crucible, there on the citadel side! this means that the citadel was designed to use the crucible which means that it was reaper that designed it!

While that is certainly a possibility worth considering, there are other possibilities as well. Vendetta explains that the reason the Citadel is the Catalyst is because the purpose of the Crucible was to use the energy of the Mass Relays against the Reapers. The Citadel itself is the control center of the Relay network and was the only way to extend the range so that every Reaper could potentially be effected by the weapon. When Vendetta stated that the Crucible wouldn't work without the Catalyst, I don't think it meant that the Crucible would literally do nothing. Instead, based upon what is said about the reason for using the Citadel in the first place, I think what would have happened is the Crucible would only effect Reapers within the immediate system.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 11 mai 2012 - 09:46 .

[MadRabbit999]

KevShep wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Also. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. PLEASE. YOU'RE. THEIR.

Ahem. That was irrelevant.

The eyes may be simply the most practical. Assuming they do mean "Hey, you're doing what TIM did", so what? Clearly, it works. And Shepard pulls it off where he couldn't. And control, as stands, preserves the status quo and best fits a classic heroic sacrifice, which, to be honest, is the big reason I like it. The only person who suffers for Shepard's control choice is Shepard. Not synthetics. Not the galaxy (though whether they suffer is subject to debate).

Did you ever stop to think that I would have never thought of joining TIM? Yet in ME3 there you are joining him! Only a reaper could get you to doubt your own beliefs and accept it..even after convincing Saren to rejcet it. You also got TIM to reject it, and here you are taking a boy you dont understand and actually believing him even thought he is the HEAD reaper and giving in to what the reaper is "suggesting"!   

Shocking!

Difference being you are not joining TIM... even the catalyst tells you, he was wrong.. because he was already being controlled, even thoguh it appears you are doing what TIM wanted to do, I believe you are doing it with different intend and mind than TIM, enough to make a difference.

No he does not, the catalsyt says that hes is right!  You forget that your talking to a reaper! Your enemy! Not your friend! You believe that it will make a difference just like TIM did! Now we see Bioware's artistic intergity!

Did you stop to think that this is a reaper? The main one at that!

Except he says "The Cruvible changed us"... so he coudl be telling the truth.

Yes TIM WAS right.. but TIM wanted to do it for his own selfish needs that is why he failed, Shepard does it for the good of the galaxy.. so again, I personally beleive there is a big difference there.. TIM would ahve most likely used the reaper to become space Hitler.

No TIM did it for humanity. Weather you did it for this reason or that reason its still the same thing and your eyes tell you that when you pick control! You picked the same thing no matter what your intentions are. Again your taking the advice of a reaper! Everyone is quick to forget this because he is as the little boy and you dont have much intel on anyting. This makes you more able to give in to his suggestions!

Right. .so you believe everything TIM says now?

How can you not believe the Catalyst but believe TIM intentions, of "helping" humanity?

You are not taking advice of a reaper anyhow, the Catalyst created the reapers... and msot likely the whole thing got out of hand making everybody a bit more homicidal than their original purpose.. but the Crucible changed this, at least for the head of the reapers, which again, is not a "reaper".

Would you have listen to the catalsyt if he appeared as Harbinger or another reaper? Most likely no. TIM was always a tragic hero that tried to do the right thing. Do I believe in everything that TIM says? Hell No! Hes a mad man, but his intentions are clear enough to make the assumption. The catalyst views are the same as any reaper!

Again, can't help but think of Hitler and Darth Vader when I think of TIM... all 3 of them firmly beleived they were working for the greater good of their own people... instead, TIM created monsters and abominations out of humans which he was meant to "put first".

[KevShep]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Your missing the part of this whole thing that makes it odd...the most crucial parts of the crucible are not even on the crucible, there on the citadel side! this means that the citadel was designed to use the crucible which means that it was reaper that designed it!

While that is certainly a possibility worth considering, there are other possibilities as well. Vendetta explains that the reason the Citadel is the Catalyst is because the purpose of the Crucible was to use the energy of the Mass Relays against the Reapers. The Citadel itself is the control center of the Relay network and was the only way to extend the range so that every Reaper could potentially be effected by the weapon. When Vendetta stated that the Crucible wouldn't work without the Catalyst, I don't think it meant that the Crucible would literally do nothing. Instead, based upon what is said about the reason for using the Citadel in the first place, I think what would have happened is the Crucible would only effect Reapers within the immediate system.

If its a weapon then that means that the citadel was always ment as a weapon. If you want to use the crucible then you have to redesign the citadel so it can fire from the crucible. Its the citadel that is harnessing the power of the crucible not the other way around.

[KevShep]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Also. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. PLEASE. YOU'RE. THEIR.

Ahem. That was irrelevant.

The eyes may be simply the most practical. Assuming they do mean "Hey, you're doing what TIM did", so what? Clearly, it works. And Shepard pulls it off where he couldn't. And control, as stands, preserves the status quo and best fits a classic heroic sacrifice, which, to be honest, is the big reason I like it. The only person who suffers for Shepard's control choice is Shepard. Not synthetics. Not the galaxy (though whether they suffer is subject to debate).

Did you ever stop to think that I would have never thought of joining TIM? Yet in ME3 there you are joining him! Only a reaper could get you to doubt your own beliefs and accept it..even after convincing Saren to rejcet it. You also got TIM to reject it, and here you are taking a boy you dont understand and actually believing him even thought he is the HEAD reaper and giving in to what the reaper is "suggesting"!   

Shocking!

Difference being you are not joining TIM... even the catalyst tells you, he was wrong.. because he was already being controlled, even thoguh it appears you are doing what TIM wanted to do, I believe you are doing it with different intend and mind than TIM, enough to make a difference.

No he does not, the catalsyt says that hes is right!  You forget that your talking to a reaper! Your enemy! Not your friend! You believe that it will make a difference just like TIM did! Now we see Bioware's artistic intergity!

Did you stop to think that this is a reaper? The main one at that!

Except he says "The Cruvible changed us"... so he coudl be telling the truth.

Yes TIM WAS right.. but TIM wanted to do it for his own selfish needs that is why he failed, Shepard does it for the good of the galaxy.. so again, I personally beleive there is a big difference there.. TIM would ahve most likely used the reaper to become space Hitler.

No TIM did it for humanity. Weather you did it for this reason or that reason its still the same thing and your eyes tell you that when you pick control! You picked the same thing no matter what your intentions are. Again your taking the advice of a reaper! Everyone is quick to forget this because he is as the little boy and you dont have much intel on anyting. This makes you more able to give in to his suggestions!

Right. .so you believe everything TIM says now?

How can you not believe the Catalyst but believe TIM intentions, of "helping" humanity?

You are not taking advice of a reaper anyhow, the Catalyst created the reapers... and msot likely the whole thing got out of hand making everybody a bit more homicidal than their original purpose.. but the Crucible changed this, at least for the head of the reapers, which again, is not a "reaper".

Would you have listen to the catalsyt if he appeared as Harbinger or another reaper? Most likely no. TIM was always a tragic hero that tried to do the right thing. Do I believe in everything that TIM says? Hell No! Hes a mad man, but his intentions are clear enough to make the assumption. The catalyst views are the same as any reaper!

Again, can't help but think of Hitler and Darth Vader when I think of TIM... all 3 of them firmly beleived they were working for the greater good of their own people... instead, TIM created monsters and abominations out of humans which he was meant to "put first".

In ME1 I believe that Cerberus had fronts like Binary Helix and Exo Geni.

Exo Geni had the Thorian...Cerberus has thorian creepers.

Binary Helix has the Queen Rachni...Cerberus has rachni.

Cerberus was also trying to make a super solider in ME1, I dont know if this has anything to do with Shepard being rebuilt or not but is intresting to me.

[DarkSeraphym]

KevShep wrote...

If its a weapon then that means that the citadel was always ment as a weapon. If you want to use the crucible then you have to redesign the citadel so it can fire from the crucible. Its the citadel that is harnessing the power of the crucible not the other way around.

You are correct that the Citadel is the one harnessing the power of the Crucible in some capacity, though I do think that the Citadel offers some kind of energy input into the Crucible. Regardles, that doesn't mean that the Citadel had to be designed as a weapon all along. As Vendetta states at the Cerberus Base, the Citadel controls energy emissions within the entire Mass Relay network. Think of it as a colossal launcher. The inherent issue with the Crucible is that it has no way of connecting to the entire Mass Relay network. It is my understanding, at least from how Vendetta describes it, that the Crucible is the equivalent of a percussion fuse bomb and the Citadel is the equivalent of a slingshot. The Citadel is nothing more than the way in which the Crucible can achieve the necessary range through energy input and the connection to the entire network.

EDIT: I'm looking at the Codex entry on the Crucible now and it notes that the function of the weapon was to exploit the ability of the Mass Relays to send energy and matter over long distances of space. Knowing that, perhaps it is possible that the Crucible was designed to be attached to any Mass Relay. However, the problem with just attaching it to any Relay is that if you attach it to a primary relay, you could only attack Reapers within the system of its sister. Similarly if you attach it to a secondary relay, you could only hit Reapers within the surrounding systems. The Citadel, being the control station of the network and a Mass Relay on its own, would be the only way to make sure you hit every system possible.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 11 mai 2012 - 10:18 .

[KevShep]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

KevShep wrote...

If its a weapon then that means that the citadel was always ment as a weapon. If you want to use the crucible then you have to redesign the citadel so it can fire from the crucible. Its the citadel that is harnessing the power of the crucible not the other way around.

You are correct that the Citadel is the ony harnessing the power of the Crucible. However, that doesn't mean that the Citadel had to be designed as a weapon all along. As Vendetta states at the Cerberus Base, the Citadel controls energy emissions within the entire Mass Relay network. Think of it as a colossal launcher. The inherent issue with the Crucible is that it has no way of connecting to the entire Mass Relay network. It is my understanding, at least from how Vendetta describes it, that the Crucible is the equivalent of a percussion fuse bomb and the Citadel is the equivalent of a slingshot. The Citadel is nothing more than the way in which the Crucible can achieve the necessary range through energy input and the connection to the entire network.

It would have to redesign it because the citadel came first meaning that its the other way around. The citadel clearly is the one firing! You cant get a steel pipe to fire a bullet unless you redesign the pipe. The crucible and the citadel are made for each other!

BTW the citadel is firing a beam from the council chamber area. If it was not supposed to fire a deadly beam then it would not because it could not do it!

[KevShep]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

KevShep wrote...

If its a weapon then that means that the citadel was always ment as a weapon. If you want to use the crucible then you have to redesign the citadel so it can fire from the crucible. Its the citadel that is harnessing the power of the crucible not the other way around.

You are correct that the Citadel is the one harnessing the power of the Crucible in some capacity, though I do think that the Citadel offers some kind of energy input into the Crucible. Regardles, that doesn't mean that the Citadel had to be designed as a weapon all along. As Vendetta states at the Cerberus Base, the Citadel controls energy emissions within the entire Mass Relay network. Think of it as a colossal launcher. The inherent issue with the Crucible is that it has no way of connecting to the entire Mass Relay network. It is my understanding, at least from how Vendetta describes it, that the Crucible is the equivalent of a percussion fuse bomb and the Citadel is the equivalent of a slingshot. The Citadel is nothing more than the way in which the Crucible can achieve the necessary range through energy input and the connection to the entire network.

EDIT: I'm looking at the Codex entry on the Crucible now and it notes that the function of the weapon was to exploit the ability of the Mass Relays to send energy and matter over long distances of space. Knowing that, perhaps it is possible that the Crucible was designed to be attached to any Mass Relay. However, the problem with just attaching it to any Relay is that if you attach it to a primary relay, you could only attack Reapers within the system of its sister. Similarly if you attach it to a secondary relay, you could only hit Reapers within the surrounding systems. The Citadel, being the control station of the network and a Mass Relay on its own, would be the only way to make sure you hit every system possible.

how can the crucible be attached to any relay when it needs the catalsyt and the catalyst choices?

[DarkSeraphym]

KevShep wrote...

It would have to redesign it because the citadel came first meaning that its the other way around. The citadel clearly is the one firing! You cant get a steel pipe to fire a bullet unless you redesign the pipe.

Assuming I had the steel pipe before I even thought of building bullets to fire through it, I wouldn't need to redesign the pipe. I would just need to design the bullets so that they could be fired from the pipe I have had all along. I'm not sure I understand why I would need to redesign the Citadel in order to fire the Crucible if the Citadel came first. If the intention of the Crucible to use the power of the relays, which is what the Codex suggests, it would make sense that I would want to use the very platform that controls the entire relay network. Advanced technology is always built based upon what you have in front of you. Going back to your bullet analogy, steel pipes were never designed to fire bullets. Instead, musketballs were designed to be fired through them, or anything else that you could jam down into the pipe in the case of a blunderbuss. The rifled barrel was invented before the bullet, so I don't see why it is so hard to postulate that the reason why the Crucible is designed to fit on the Citadel is because the races had always believed they would need to connect it to an object that was always around and in control of the very source that they intended to turn into a weapon.

I'd be more willing to accept the possibility that the Crucible may have been a Reaper invention had all of this been coming from the Catalyst. However, that is not the case. All of the information that I am bringing up either comes right out of the codex in the game or from Vendetta, the Prothean VI, during the Cerberus Base raid.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 11 mai 2012 - 10:46 .

[DarkSeraphym]

KevShep wrote...

how can the crucible be attached to any relay when it needs the catalsyt and the catalyst choices?

I don't know that it can. Vendetta suggests that the reason why the Catalyst is necessary is because the Catalyst (aka Citadell) controls the Mass Relay network. Likewise, the Codex entry on the Crucible suggests that the scientists that were building it during the events of Mass Effect 3 had always known it was supposed to use the energy of the Mass Relays but knew nothing beyond that. That leads me to wonder whether or not Vendetta meant that the Crucible will literally do nothing if the Catalyst is not attached or if the purpose of the Citadel was merely to make certain that you took care of the entire Reaper threat. Only thing I can do is speculate on the matter because Vendetta only says that Catalyst is necessary for the Crucible to function, but one could argue that if you could use any Relay and only take down a handful of Reapers that the weapon didn't "function" because you didn't eliminate all of the Reapers.

Alas, that is enough of my inqueries on that idea since I only have to go on what is in front of me.

[TSA_383]

[quote]DarkSeraphym wrote...

[quote]KevShep wrote...

If its a weapon then that means that the citadel was always ment as a weapon. If you want to use the crucible then you have to redesign the citadel so it can fire from the crucible. Its the citadel that is harnessing the power of the crucible not the other way around.

[/quote]

You are correct that the Citadel is the one harnessing the power of the Crucible in some capacity, though I do think that the Citadel offers some kind of energy input into the Crucible. Regardles, that doesn't mean that the Citadel had to be designed as a weapon all along. As Vendetta states at the Cerberus Base, the Citadel controls energy emissions within the entire Mass Relay network. Think of it as a colossal launcher. The inherent issue with the Crucible is that it has no way of connecting to the entire Mass Relay network. It is my understanding, at least from how Vendetta describes it, that the Crucible is the equivalent of a percussion fuse bomb and the Citadel is the equivalent of a slingshot. The Citadel is nothing more than the way in which the Crucible can achieve the necessary range through energy input and the connection to the entire network.

EDIT: I'm looking at the Codex entry on the Crucible now and it notes that the function of the weapon was to exploit the ability of the Mass Relays to send energy and matter over long distances of space. Knowing that, perhaps it is possible that the Crucible was designed to be attached to any Mass Relay. However, the problem with just attaching it to any Relay is that if you attach it to a primary relay, you could only attack Reapers within the system of its sister. Similarly if you attach it to a secondary relay, you could only hit Reapers within the surrounding systems. The Citadel, being the control station of the network and a Mass Relay on its own, would be the only way to make sure you hit every system possible.

[/quote]

It was suggested in the indoc thread that the "mass effect accelerator weapon" of "almost unimaginable power" in the second game might be related to the crucible... thoughts?

[quote]MadRabbit999 wrote...

[quote]KevShep wrote...

[quote]MadRabbit999 wrote...

[quote]KevShep wrote...

[quote]MadRabbit999 wrote...

[quote]KevShep wrote...

[quote]Hadeedak wrote...

Also. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. YOU'RE. PLEASE. YOU'RE. THEIR.

Ahem. That was irrelevant.

The
eyes may be simply the most practical. Assuming they do mean "Hey,
you're doing what TIM did", so what? Clearly, it works. And Shepard
pulls it off where he couldn't. And control, as stands, preserves the
status quo and best fits a classic heroic sacrifice, which, to be
honest, is the big reason I like it. The only person who suffers for
Shepard's control choice is Shepard. Not synthetics. Not the galaxy
(though whether they suffer is subject to debate).[/quote]

Did
you ever stop to think that I would have never thought of joining TIM?
Yet in ME3 there you are joining him! Only a reaper could get you to
doubt your own beliefs and accept it..even after convincing Saren to
rejcet it. You also got TIM to reject it, and here you are taking a boy
you dont understand and actually believing him even thought he is the
HEAD reaper and giving in to what the reaper is "suggesting"!   

Shocking![/quote]

Difference
being you are not joining TIM... even the catalyst tells you, he was
wrong.. because he was already being controlled, even thoguh it appears
you are doing what TIM wanted to do, I believe you are doing it with
different intend and mind than TIM, enough to make a difference.

[/quote]

No
he does not, the catalsyt says that hes is right!  You forget that your
talking to a reaper! Your enemy! Not your friend! You believe that it
will make a difference just like TIM did! Now we see Bioware's artistic
intergity!

Did you stop to think that this is a reaper? The main one at that![/quote]

Except he says "The Cruvible changed us"... so he coudl be telling the truth.

Yes
TIM WAS right.. but TIM wanted to do it for his own selfish needs that
is why he failed, Shepard does it for the good of the galaxy.. so
again, I personally beleive there is a big difference there.. TIM would
ahve most likely used the reaper to become space Hitler.
[/quote]

No
TIM did it for humanity. Weather you did it for this reason or that
reason its still the same thing and your eyes tell you that when you
pick control! You picked the same thing no matter what your intentions
are. Again your taking the advice of a reaper! Everyone is quick to
forget this because he is as the little boy and you dont have much intel
on anyting. This makes you more able to give in to his
suggestions![/quote]

Right. .so you believe everything TIM says now?

How can you not believe the Catalyst but believe TIM intentions, of "helping" humanity?

You
are not taking advice of a reaper anyhow, the Catalyst created the
reapers... and msot likely the whole thing got out of hand making
everybody a bit more homicidal than their original purpose.. but the
Crucible changed this, at least for the head of the reapers, which
again, is not a "reaper".
[/quote]
Two things:

-If we assume the scene is real, then you are believing at face value the word of the being that controlled the reapers, and has been attempting to kill you and everyone important to you for years.
-However, the scene really can't be real, as otherwise it wouldn't be possible to survive the destroy ending (multi-kiloton explosion in outer space ---> Waking up on earth??? *and it is earth, there is a marked lack of wind noise in space*).

So assuming it's NOT real, then there's even less reason to believe anything it says

[quote]Hadeedak wrote...

[quote]KevShep wrote...

[quote]MadRabbit999 wrote...

As
at the moment I do not really believe in IT, I did pick control... it
doesn't involve genocide of an entire species... or force YOUR idea of
what is right, on every single living thing of an entire
galaxy...[/quote]

No, you just doomed the whole galaxy...your indoctrinated!

[/quote]

Bet you the end of her game told her she ended the reaper threat and became a legend. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

[/quote]
So, what you're saying essentially, is that the endings, designed to be open to interpretation, are actually completely closed to interpretation and the only way to understand it is to take everything at face value even though it's impossible?

[quote]We didn't know that asari personally. She may have been acting
very oddly -- hell, she kind of was in 2. But if Shepard started acting
out of character, that's the sort of thing that the squad would pick up
on. Not "You look tired" but genuinely indoctrination starting crazy.
Which we've seen a few times.
[/quote]
That's an entirely different level of indoctrination... like, you know, the level that the illusive man has reached by about halfway through ME3 (having given himself reaper implants between 2 & 3 and used a reaper heart to power his base...

[quote]Hadeedak wrote...

What evidence do we have that slow
indoctrination works as subtlety as it would be working on Shepard? Slow
indoctrination is usually heavy on waking dreams and mysterious noises.
It's the sort of thing your squad would notice.

If it's rapid indoctrination... the game's over at that point.[/quote]
You mean, like someone seeing the vision of a child nobody else ever seems to look at?
How exactly are your squad supposed to get inside shep's head? The whole point of reaper sleeper agents is that they do what they're told and think they decided to do it for their own reasons...