1114 réponses à ce sujet

[Calibrations Expert]

How many people failed the game by choosing Destroy?
(With friendly Geth)

Modifié par Calibrations Expert, 09 mai 2012 - 09:09 .

[Draining Dragon]

Anybody who chose Control fails.

[Hadeedak]

Headcanon aside. all 3 endings give you a win and the nod that your Shepard ended the Reaper threat. All 3 viable. What we have to work with is the game as it stands, and I passed the test with control.

Clearly JUST to annoy people. >>

[Calibrations Expert]

Draining Dragon wrote...

Anybody who chose Control fails.

Control is the safe one. Destroy kills your friends and Synthesis...no one knows what Synthesis does.

[Demoiselle]

TSA_383 wrote...

Demoiselle wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...


So, let's see who in the series are fans of Destroy/Control/Synthesis:

Destroy:
-Anderson
-Hackett
-All of your squadmates
-Basically every "good" npc.

Control/Synthesis:
-The Illusive Man
-Saren
-Kai Leng
-Dr Kenson

I - what - no.

Why do people keep using Saren and these people as reasons why we shouldn't pick Control/Synthesis?!

TIM did not
want what Shepard did in the control ending - TIM wanted himself, an
indoctrinated supremist, to control the reapers so that humanity could
stomp every other species under its collective heel.

Saren did not
want what Shepard did in the synthesis ending - he wanted to HELP the
Reapers in wiping out most of the galactivc community, and the few
survivors to serve the Reapers. To do this he also thought it was a good
idea to let the Reapers jam obvious, obtrusive Reaper tech into him,
replacing entire limbs with the stuff, which obviously helped them
control and indoctrinate him.

Control/Synthesis are not these things!

And
we don't see Anderson and all the 'good' NPCs in favour of the
actual destroy ending. They are in favour of  the simple plan of
destroying the Reapers, which seems the only logical possiblity of
winning the War against them until we meet the Catalyst.

We
NEVER hear any of their opinions on the actual 'Destroy Choice' after
finding out what it will do (wipe out all synthetic life ect.) or
comparing it to the other choices.

We never hear ANY CHARACHTER IN THE GAMES SERIES'S OPINIONS ON WHETHER TO CHOOSE DESTROY, CONTROL OR SYNTHESIS. Some charachters voice views that seem similar to the choices, but NO
OTHER CHARACHTER OTHER THAN SHEPARD EVER BECOMES AWARE OF WHAT THE
ACTUAL CHOICES WE ARE PRESENTED WITH AT THE END OF THE GAME ARE, AND
GIVES AN OPINION ON WHAT ENDING THEY SUPPORT.

TIM and Saren both believed they had good intentions too.
In fact, to quote Saren on why people need to be allied with the reapers, turning the galaxy into reaper servants:

"I'm not doing this for myself. Don't you see, Sovreign will succeed. It
is inevitable. My way is the only way any of us will survive. I'm
forging an alliance between us and the Reapers, between organics and
machines, and in doing so, I will save more lives than have ever
existed. But you would undo my work. You would doom our entire
civilization to complete annihilation, and for that, you must die."

Sorry you were so taken in by all that.
The fact that the illusive man isn't doing it for the sake of the entire galaxy, well of course not. The reapers want him to help prevent you from destroying them. They will do that by appealing to what the Illusive man wants, which is power. In your case, they did it by making that seem like the "Paragon" choice, and you fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Er, I'm not sure how them thinking they had good intentions ruins my point. The point still stands that Control/Synthesis are NOT what they wanted to do.

And the starbrat supporting an option more than destroy does not mean it is the wrong one or that the Reapers will just override it  and come back - it just means he doesn't want you to pick destroy. Control/Synthesis doesn't mean you've fell for his trap and the Reapers can continue on -  despite his logic of creating the Reapers being freaking insane, his whole point is to stop Organic/Synthetic War, not to continue the Reaper cycle. If he thinks control/synthesis will really work, he won't try to bring back the Reapers.

Modifié par Demoiselle, 09 mai 2012 - 09:12 .

[PlumPaul93]

The IT is the worst thing since the endings.

[Mefistos989]

..This is getting somewhat ridiculous... IT theory was already proven false. It pains me to say so, but that's how it is. No amount of belief will change that.

If you have our own headcanon, good for you. Trying to persuade people on the internet that your headcanon is the only way to go will only result in a flamewar.

I keep my headcanon for myself. I contribute only when someone directly ask me.

[TSA_383]

Nimrodell wrote...

So, let's see who in the series are fans of Destroy/Control/Synthesis:

Destroy:
-Anderson
-Hackett
-All of your squadmates
-Basically every "good" npc.

Control/Synthesis:
-The Illusive Man
-Saren
-Kai Leng
-Dr Kenson
-Miranda's Father
What a fun, respectable group...

And who do we see in the final sequence?
Destroy: Anderson
Control: The Illusive Man

This is utterly wrong premise in that video you watched - none of those characters were actually in situation with Catalyst, beside Shepard and none of them actually had the knowledge what transpired in Crucible nor did they voiced their choice because they weren't offered any. That's another difference between ME1, ME2 and ME3 - in ME1 and ME2, they are there, with Shepard and we even hear their thoughts on choices and situation - in ME3, there's only Catalyst and Shepard at the end - no one else up there, hearing, seeing what's happening nor voicing their opinion.  So, this is wrong assumption to start with.

What, you mean you have to think for yourself? With the only slap on the bum in the right direction being Anderson choosing destroy and the illusive man choosing control?
I know, sometimes this whole "thinking" malarkey eludes me too. Not in this case, however

Mefistos989 wrote...

..This is getting somewhat
ridiculous... IT theory was already proven false. It pains me to say so,
but that's how it is. No amount of belief will change that.

If
you have our own headcanon, good for you. Trying to persuade people on
the internet that your headcanon is the only way to go will only result
in a flamewar.

I keep my headcanon for myself. I contribute only when someone directly ask me.

Nah, having fun with this.
Remind me, where was it proven that there's no indoctrination in the end sequence?

Demoiselle wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Demoiselle wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...


So, let's see who in the series are fans of Destroy/Control/Synthesis:

Destroy:
-Anderson
-Hackett
-All of your squadmates
-Basically every "good" npc.

Control/Synthesis:
-The Illusive Man
-Saren
-Kai Leng
-Dr Kenson

I - what - no.

Why do people keep using Saren and these people as reasons why we shouldn't pick Control/Synthesis?!

TIM did not
want what Shepard did in the control ending - TIM wanted himself, an
indoctrinated supremist, to control the reapers so that humanity could
stomp every other species under its collective heel.

Saren did not
want what Shepard did in the synthesis ending - he wanted to HELP the
Reapers in wiping out most of the galactivc community, and the few
survivors to serve the Reapers. To do this he also thought it was a good
idea to let the Reapers jam obvious, obtrusive Reaper tech into him,
replacing entire limbs with the stuff, which obviously helped them
control and indoctrinate him.

Control/Synthesis are not these things!

And
we don't see Anderson and all the 'good' NPCs in favour of the
actual destroy ending. They are in favour of  the simple plan of
destroying the Reapers, which seems the only logical possiblity of
winning the War against them until we meet the Catalyst.

We
NEVER hear any of their opinions on the actual 'Destroy Choice' after
finding out what it will do (wipe out all synthetic life ect.) or
comparing it to the other choices.

We never hear ANY CHARACHTER IN THE GAMES SERIES'S OPINIONS ON WHETHER TO CHOOSE DESTROY, CONTROL OR SYNTHESIS. Some charachters voice views that seem similar to the choices, but NO
OTHER CHARACHTER OTHER THAN SHEPARD EVER BECOMES AWARE OF WHAT THE
ACTUAL CHOICES WE ARE PRESENTED WITH AT THE END OF THE GAME ARE, AND
GIVES AN OPINION ON WHAT ENDING THEY SUPPORT.

TIM and Saren both believed they had good intentions too.
In fact, to quote Saren on why people need to be allied with the reapers, turning the galaxy into reaper servants:

"I'm not doing this for myself. Don't you see, Sovreign will succeed. It
is inevitable. My way is the only way any of us will survive. I'm
forging an alliance between us and the Reapers, between organics and
machines, and in doing so, I will save more lives than have ever
existed. But you would undo my work. You would doom our entire
civilization to complete annihilation, and for that, you must die."

Sorry you were so taken in by all that.
The
fact that the illusive man isn't doing it for the sake of the entire
galaxy, well of course not. The reapers want him to help prevent you
from destroying them. They will do that by appealing to what the
Illusive man wants, which is power. In your case, they did it by making
that seem like the "Paragon" choice, and you fell for it hook, line and
sinker.

Er, I'm not sure how them thinking they had good
intentions ruins my point. The point still stands that Control/Synthesis
are NOT what they wanted to do.

And the starbrat supporting an
option more than destroy does not mean it is the wrong one or that the
Reapers will just override it  and come back - it just means he doesn't
want you to pick destroy. Control/Synthesis doesn't mean you've fell for
his trap and the Reapers can continue on -  despite his logic of
creating the Reapers being freaking insane, his whole point is to stop
Organic/Synthetic War, not to continue the Reaper cycle. If he thinks
control/synthesis will really work, he won't try to bring back the
Reapers.

TIM - "We must control the reapers"
Saren - "We must ally with the reapers and serve them"

And the whole point of the thing is that it's a SYMBOLIC choice. Wouldn't be much of a game if the only options available to you were "get reaperised in green" and "get reaperised in blue"...

Modifié par TSA_383, 09 mai 2012 - 09:14 .

[Demoiselle]

TSA_383 wrote...

Nimrodell wrote...

So, let's see who in the series are fans of Destroy/Control/Synthesis:

Destroy:
-Anderson
-Hackett
-All of your squadmates
-Basically every "good" npc.

Control/Synthesis:
-The Illusive Man
-Saren
-Kai Leng
-Dr Kenson
-Miranda's Father
What a fun, respectable group...

And who do we see in the final sequence?
Destroy: Anderson
Control: The Illusive Man

This is utterly wrong premise in that video you watched - none of those characters were actually in situation with Catalyst, beside Shepard and none of them actually had the knowledge what transpired in Crucible nor did they voiced their choice because they weren't offered any. That's another difference between ME1, ME2 and ME3 - in ME1 and ME2, they are there, with Shepard and we even hear their thoughts on choices and situation - in ME3, there's only Catalyst and Shepard at the end - no one else up there, hearing, seeing what's happening nor voicing their opinion.  So, this is wrong assumption to start with.

What, you mean you have to think for yourself? With the only slap on the bum in the right direction being Anderson choosing destroy and the illusive man choosing control?
I know, sometimes this whole "thinking" malarkey eludes me too. Not in this case, however

The parts in bold. Seriously. Anderson, Saren and TIM did NOT support Shepard choosing destroy, control or synthesis when presented with the choices and their consequences. They just voiced views that could easilly be assigned to each choice.

[Calibrations Expert]

TSA_383 wrote...

So, let's see who in the series are fans of Destroy/Control/Synthesis:

Destroy:
-Anderson
-Hackett
-All of your squadmates
-Basically every "good" npc.

Control/Synthesis:
-The Illusive Man
-Saren
-Kai Leng
-Dr Kenson
-Miranda's Father
What a fun, respectable group...

And who do we see in the final sequence?
Destroy: Anderson
Control: The Illusive Man

Garrus wanted Synthesis or Control. "Now if you can just make peace with the Reapers, you'll be a saint."

EDI is a squad memeber. Legion was too. I'm sure they aren't fans of killing them and Legion's people for no reason.

Oh, and Garrus wants Synthesis or Control. Did I mention that's what Garrus wants?

[KingZayd]

Calibrations Expert wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

So, let's see who in the series are fans of Destroy/Control/Synthesis:

Destroy:
-Anderson
-Hackett
-All of your squadmates
-Basically every "good" npc.

Control/Synthesis:
-The Illusive Man
-Saren
-Kai Leng
-Dr Kenson
-Miranda's Father
What a fun, respectable group...

And who do we see in the final sequence?
Destroy: Anderson
Control: The Illusive Man

Garrus wanted Synthesis or Control. "Now if you can just make peace with the Reapers, you'll be a saint."

EDI is a squad memeber. Legion was too. I'm sure they aren't fans of killing them and Legion's people for no reason.

Oh, and Garrus wants Synthesis or Control. Did I mention that's what Garrus wants?

in EDI's words "That was a joke"

for no reason? to save the galaxy. EDI said she's be willing to die to protect Joker. The Geth were also willing to take part in the extermination of organics (by allying with the reapers) in order to protect themselves.

Even so, we have no evidence that the Geth actually do die in the end.

[Hadeedak]

Well, if the kid's lying about the geth dying, then...

Yeah, if we can't trust anything he says, then we've got NOTHING to go on. You just made the endings worse.

[dorktainian]

Destroy is the ONLY proper ending (shep lives) how can anyone choose Control (a lie) or Synthesis (the end of genetic diversity)?

[Demoiselle]

Hadeedak wrote...

Well, if the kid's lying about the geth dying, then...

Yeah, if we can't trust anything he says, then we've got NOTHING to go on. You just made the endings worse.

If the writers go back on the Geth ect. being killed in Destroy, I may lose faith in BW all together. Without it Destroy became the obvious choice the game had been pushing you towards.

And seriously - if they do decided that the Geth ect. live, it wont be an in-game thing, it'd be something a writer announces online. I don't want to have completed a game only to find out much later that the ending choices have been retconned just because a lot of people SPECULATED that starbrat might be lying.

[TSA_383]

Demoiselle wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Well, if the kid's lying about the geth dying, then...

Yeah, if we can't trust anything he says, then we've got NOTHING to go on. You just made the endings worse.

If the writers go back on the Geth ect. being killed in Destroy, I may lose faith in BW all together. Without it Destroy became the obvious choice the game had been pushing you towards.

And seriously - if they do decided that the Geth ect. live, it wont be an in-game thing, it'd be something a writer announces online. I don't want to have completed a game only to find out much later that the ending choices have been retconned just because a lot of people SPECULATED that starbrat might be lying.

This, people, is what indoctrination looks like.
Someone who will angrily protest the idea of destroying the reapers because of something a shiny, mysterious being who claims to control the reapers told them.

*applause*

[legion999]

I chose destroy because that's been the objective since ME1. All endings are equally ****ty though so it's not that big of a deal.

[Galifreya]

Calibrations Expert wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

Anybody who chose Control fails.

Control is the safe one. Destroy kills your friends and Synthesis...no one knows what Synthesis does.

Where were all the dead Geth? I didn't see a scrap of dead Geth. I DEMAND MORE DEAD GETH. To prove that destroy actually does what that brat says it does.

BODIES, or it didn't happen.

[legion999]

Demoiselle wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Well, if the kid's lying about the geth dying, then...

Yeah, if we can't trust anything he says, then we've got NOTHING to go on. You just made the endings worse.

If the writers go back on the Geth ect. being killed in Destroy, I may lose faith in BW all together. Without it Destroy became the obvious choice the game had been pushing you towards.

And seriously - if they do decided that the Geth ect. live, it wont be an in-game thing, it'd be something a writer announces online. I don't want to have completed a game only to find out much later that the ending choices have been retconned just because a lot of people SPECULATED that starbrat might be lying.

But they wanted speculation remember? And everything the Starbrat says is moronic so it's not hard to mistrust it.

[timj2011]

Well, if you only count the first playthrough as the choice...then I didn't choose anything because I was so confused that I was being presented a Deus Ex ending that I just stumbled forward and accidentally chose synthesis

[TSA_383]

timj2011 wrote...

Well, if you only count the first playthrough as the choice...then I didn't choose anything because I was so confused that I was being presented a Deus Ex ending that I just stumbled forward and accidentally chose synthesis

"I'm not indoctrinated! I'm just lost!" 
Love it

[Calibrations Expert]

 Arguing doesn't work when the rebuttal to everything can be "None of them may have done anything anyway." 

[Demoiselle]

DELETE POST.

Modifié par Demoiselle, 09 mai 2012 - 09:57 .

[ghost9191]

Calibrations Expert wrote...

Draining Dragon wrote...

Anybody who chose Control fails.

Control is the safe one. Destroy kills your friends and Synthesis...no one knows what Synthesis does.

destroy is suppose to kill you also  but with high enough ems it does not so maybe it doesn't kill the geth also, again we won't know till ec dlc , well hopefully

[Gammazero79]

Did not want to destroy the geth and edi. Did not want to force new dna on the whole galaxy. I choose control. I failed the test