azerSheppard wrote...
Hahaha, it's funny how there are still people that believe in IT hahahaha lol
HagarIshay wrote...
So? Anderson Didn't even hear the catalyst's arguments. If he did then maybe he would have chosen control or synthesis. Even if he wouldn't and will still choose destroy, his knowlage about synthetics is not so wide as Sheaprd's. He might not see Synthetics as being relevant. Again, if he did then i doubt he will choose to destroy them. Droping Anderson's name as a proof for Destroy being the "good" option is not making the choice better.
The ending choices are not a question of tactic, but moral. Why can't you accept that? choose what you think is right, don't bring evidence that has no real meaning to make your choice sound better than others. It will give BioWare the wrong ideas in the EC...
Geneaux486 wrote...
First of all, the ending isn't full of plotholes, it's full of questions that need answering. Nothing we see in the ending contradicts what's been established previously, in some cases because things are explainable, and in other cases because we simply don't know enough about a specific thing to know that it contradicts anything. Secondly, "Lots of speculation from everyone" doesn't translate to "You all need to speculate because the ending is fake."
jijeebo wrote...
WinterCrow wrote...
I discovered IT several days after finishing the game, and sure, I like it, but still...
When I first played the ending I didn't even give it a second thought. Just as someone said before, I went straight to the destroy option. The other options felt so goddamn wrong...
I agree with OP in one thing, mainly: Starkid cannot be trusted. He was way too calm, he accepted the breaking of his cycle way too easily, everything was just too perfect after more than 3 years of conflict, slaughter and war. And then he comes and say either control or synthesis are OK, they are awesome, but destroy sucks, it's the worse option ever.
Come on, that was really fishy. I had a terribly bad feeling about the whole situation. Indoctrinated or not, as some of you guys say, Starkid is a freaking liar.
Look it at it from Star-Jars pov though, based on his idiot logic.
Control - Shepard will use his new abilities to prevent this innevitable synthetic apocalypse, even if it doesn't involve repeating the current cycle = Life continues
Synthesis - "Synthetic" is no longer a term somehow, so the innevitable synthetic apocalypse can no longer happen because all life is equal = Life continues
Destroy - Without the cycle to maintain order, organics will create synthetics that will ultimately destroy ALL life = Galaxy dies
It's understandable why he isn't bigging up Destroy, for him it's equivalent to deciding to nuke everything
Modifié par WinterCrow, 15 mai 2012 - 07:00 .
WinterCrow wrote...
jijeebo wrote...
Look it at it from Star-Jars pov though, based on his idiot logic.
Control - Shepard will use his new abilities to prevent this innevitable synthetic apocalypse, even if it doesn't involve repeating the current cycle = Life continues
Synthesis - "Synthetic" is no longer a term somehow, so the innevitable synthetic apocalypse can no longer happen because all life is equal = Life continues
Destroy - Without the cycle to maintain order, organics will create synthetics that will ultimately destroy ALL life = Galaxy dies
It's understandable why he isn't bigging up Destroy, for him it's equivalent to deciding to nuke everything
a) That's exactly what I mean, according to him it's not ok, yet he lies about the consequences of destroy, and still offers you the choice as if he didn't really care.Nah, he could've never told you about that option, yet he disguises himself as a child instead and gives you the destroy option full of bad consequences, half of them at least made up. That can't be right. The moment the catalyst became a child I knew something was wrong, and as soon as he finished his speech I felt it was a trap.
c) Besides, the reapers attacked Sanctuary to prevent TIM from "controlling" them. They've been tryin to kill you for 3 years and succeeded once already, yet it's alright if you take control of them right in the end.
d) Destroy has to be the right choice, the others are too suspiciously good and sudden.
The survival of the reapers seems like an awful big risk to take just to lie to someone and present them with false alternatives, though."T'sall good bro, no problem, control us, we've been trolling you for 3
years, killing you? nah, we were kidding, you're the chosen one, able to
control us, go on, dude, we're good."
Hadeedak wrote...
Re: "The Catalyst lies! He says Shepard will die!" The most he says is "You yourself are partially synthetic."
WinterCrow wrote...
Hadeedak wrote...
Re: "The Catalyst lies! He says Shepard will die!" The most he says is "You yourself are partially synthetic."
Answering to jijeebo as well...
By "the catalyst is lies" I did not mean just "Shepard survives", I'm also referring to that cutsene where EDI walks out of the Normandy in the destroy option that Jessica Merizan labeled as "not a bug".
"You can wipe out all synthetic life if you want" is what he says, yet EDI survives. Sounds pretty much like lying to me.
Besides, if your EMS isn't high enough, destroy wave just kills everything in its path, something the child didn't warn you about... or maybe he just doesn't know as much as he pretends to.
About them thinking Shepard really deserves control... I don't think that really fits. 10 minutes before giving you the option Harbinger was blasting you ass. Sure, you survived, but to the last minute they fight you and claim you cannot "comprehend" them... and suddenly you're worthy of leading them all. Yeah, sure, I totally believe that.
And I insist he has the shape of that goddamn kid. Smells wrong all the time.
Mobius-Silent wrote...
I agree that it's not _full_ but as I've said there is one large contradiction (as I addressed in my previous post, without further information the end of ME3 directly contradicts ME1) the rest is just narrative dissonance, which is still poor writing.
Geneaux486 wrote...
The ending is so full of plot holes and inconsistent cut-scenes and stoy that it DOES put it in question as being complete truth.....Speculations. If it was not then they would not be telling us to speculate!
First of all, the ending isn't full of plotholes, it's full of questions that need answering. Nothing we see in the ending contradicts what's been established previously, in some cases because things are explainable, and in other cases because we simply don't know enough about a specific thing to know that it contradicts anything. Secondly, "Lots of speculation from everyone" doesn't translate to "You all need to speculate because the ending is fake."Since the reapers CANT force indoctrination on somene against there wishes they have to give them choices.
Of course the Reapers force indoctrination, that's why nobody is able to resist it. Don't rewrite canon to try to prove your point.I chose Destory my first time because that was what I intended throughout the whole series! I could not wait to kill them all when I first played ME1 and it carried over all games. ME3 makes you stop and hesitate on it and then I thought...This is the head reaper! He can go to hell! If you notice as well the destroy ending is in red/Anderson and the control ending is in Blue/TIM. Blue=paragon, red=renagade, When has TIM ever been paragon? WHen has Anderson ever been renagade? When did you ever start listening to a reaper? Bioware is clever has hell I almost fell for it with synthesis my first time!
Again, notice how no matter which choice you make, the effects of it are exactly what the Catalyst tells you they'll be. It takes a leap of faith to choose any of the three choices, but it's not about trusting the Catalyst, it's about trusting your weapon.
Geneaux486 wrote...
Whatever faults the ending has are easily salvageable via expansion DLC, .
jijeebo wrote...
He is definitely the same shape as that bloody vent-child... Probably Biowares idea of being deep, making the big bad take the form of some dead kid that's been haunting Sheps thoughts for months.
Modifié par KevShep, 16 mai 2012 - 01:56 .
Subject M wrote...
I was personally unwilling to destroy my Geth Allies, EDI and most technology.
-If the catalyst is the citadel(and the one controling the reapers) then why didnt he just open the relay in ME1 instead of Sovereign trying to do that for centuries? It was because of the keepers (the ones that have the hidden singal in them) that we were able to stumble on to the reapers plan and alowed the prothean scientist to change it So whats up with that?
- Since the protheans changed the signal then why didnt the catalyst just change it back?
- Why didnt the catalsyt destroy the conduit knowning that some surviving protheans used it? I mean, he would have known what it did.
Before you say that he was not active in those times I will say that that is not true if he is as he says..."I control them"!
No ones able to resist it...IF...they are under full control. It is possible to resist...IF...you know that the process is started. They CAN force the process but not the indoctrination because they have to make the subject willingly accept a point of view that is not there own but the reapers views through tricking them....
Of course the ending plays out as the catalyst says because that is Shepard interpretaion of what he...THINKS...is happening. Also remember that in the game files on PC there is a file that is tilted "Dream Foliage", At the end as the normandy crashes we see the foliage. It must be a dream. Its supported more by the fact that Shepard is ACTUALLY waking up! One last thing, The..."weapon"...is only what the catalyst says it is, so yes your still trusting him.
It will be a massive undertaking. This is not an easily salvageable, Not by a long shot. Nothing makes any sense in the ending at all. they would have to redo to ending if they are going to salvage it.
Modifié par Geneaux486, 16 mai 2012 - 02:21 .
Geneaux486 wrote...
-If the catalyst is the citadel(and the one controling the reapers) then why didnt he just open the relay in ME1 instead of Sovereign trying to do that for centuries? It was because of the keepers (the ones that have the hidden singal in them) that we were able to stumble on to the reapers plan and alowed the prothean scientist to change it So whats up with that?
- Since the protheans changed the signal then why didnt the catalyst just change it back?
- Why didnt the catalsyt destroy the conduit knowning that some surviving protheans used it? I mean, he would have known what it did.
Before you say that he was not active in those times I will say that that is not true if he is as he says..."I control them"!
This isn't a plothole. We don't know enough about the Catalyst to know its activity, however great or small, during the events of the first game. We're not given that information, therefore we can either assume that it was active, or it wasn't, and seeing as how the Catalyst did not destroy the conduit, nor did it change the altered signal back, then logic dictates that it was not active during those times. It is a lack of information, not a plothole.No ones able to resist it...IF...they are under full control. It is possible to resist...IF...you know that the process is started. They CAN force the process but not the indoctrination because they have to make the subject willingly accept a point of view that is not there own but the reapers views through tricking them....
The Codex does not back up this claim. Plenty of characters, the scientists in Arrival included, knew about indoctrination and actually took steps to prevent it from happening to them, and it happened anyway. Hell, the Illusive Man actually figured out Indoctrination enough to put it to close range, limited use, and he still got his sorry *ss indoctrinated.Of course the ending plays out as the catalyst says because that is Shepard interpretaion of what he...THINKS...is happening. Also remember that in the game files on PC there is a file that is tilted "Dream Foliage", At the end as the normandy crashes we see the foliage. It must be a dream. Its supported more by the fact that Shepard is ACTUALLY waking up! One last thing, The..."weapon"...is only what the catalyst says it is, so yes your still trusting him.
The ending plays out as the Catalyst says it would because it's all really happening. If it were Shepard's interpretation it wouldn't extend past his stream of conciousness, which is extinguished early in the process. The game goes to an audience neutral perspective, which happens several times in the series, to show us what Shepard can't see. In this case, the effects of Shepard's choices, which are happening as the player is led to believe they would. Secondly, Shepard wakes up because he survived the blast in the best possible Destroy ending, because the Crucible was built so closely to specifications that it was able to activate without harming the person pulling the trigger. Furthermore, the stargazer talking to his grandson saying it all really happened and the message at the end of the game that tells you that it happened are still there after Shepard wakes up, proving that there is no difference in realism between that ending and the others. Third, the weapon is what it is regardless of the Catalyst. It did not design the Crucible, it did not build the Crucible, it did not plug the Crucible in, and it can not fire it.It will be a massive undertaking. This is not an easily salvageable, Not by a long shot. Nothing makes any sense in the ending at all. they would have to redo to ending if they are going to salvage it.
It is not a massive undertaking, and the endings are, in fact, easily salvageable (though I'm of the opinion that they aren't inherently "bad" to begin with, just... too brief for that series). They just have to clarify certain things, expand on others, and answer some unanswered questions. The endings, for the most part, actually make perfect sense. Short term goal for the entirety of Mass Effect 3 is to finish and use the Crucible to stop the Reapers, and at the end of the game they finish the Crucible and use it to stop the Reapers. Only variable is that you actually get a choice in how you go about doing it, but why choose any way other than destroy? Because destroying them would also destroy your synthetic friends and allies (which is kind of a "no ****" moment considering the thing was designed by countless cycles that went to war with synthetics and would have no reason to want to spare them), and at that point it's up to each player to decide how much they value those characters. The question of whether or not synthetics are on equal ground as organics has been a major part of the series since Mass Effect 2, and the three choices are basically the final stage of that, not an indoctrination test. They wouldn't have to redo squat.
TSA_383 wrote...
And then, if you choose to defy the wishes of being which apparently controls the reapers, you wake up! Proving that at least part of what you'd been told (you will die) is false!
KevShep wrote...
jijeebo wrote...
He is definitely the same shape as that bloody vent-child... Probably Biowares idea of being deep, making the big bad take the form of some dead kid that's been haunting Sheps thoughts for months.
Ive seen people just accept the kid with no question to why he looks like that. Why does the catalyst take the form of the kid... a very VERY powerfull emotional thought of Shepard's? Its his weakness that is why! The feeling of lose and hoplessness. This is EXACTLY what the reapers do to the Limbic System as mentioned in the codex!
The limbic system is a set of evolutionarily primitive brain structures located on top of the brainstem and buried under the cortex. Limbic system structures are involved in many of our emotions and motivations, particularly those that are related to survival. Such emotions include fear, anger,
Codex...Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.
kglaser wrote...
TSA_383 wrote...
And then, if you choose to defy the wishes of being which apparently controls the reapers, you wake up! Proving that at least part of what you'd been told (you will die) is false!
I chose "Destroy" and didn't wake up. Does this mean I die simply because I'm an anti-social bastard IRL?
That's ****ed up...
:whistle:
Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 16 mai 2012 - 03:33 .
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