1114 réponses à ce sujet

[Hadeedak]

I've seen it. That's why I was making fun of it -- because it lets you know how badly Shepard can screw up. Course, you still get Stargazer, so clearly EVERYTHING wasn't wiped out. It's possible it only sets things on fire around the epicenter, or some lucky individuals survived the wave of flame, possibly by being underground or in stable space stations, as in standard post-apocalyptic fictions. My point is you can speculate about the worst synthesis can throw at you.

But a bad destroy Shepard literally sets earth on fire to stop the reapers. And possibly a few other planets, maybe the rest of the galaxy... But that's so impressively horrible that I wish it got more credit.

[Geneaux486]

balance5050 wrote...

 

No better way to say "lol I didn't play teh game" than to make an image like that

I like how they didn't even use the "Kelly melting" screenshot, just grabbed a pic of poor Lilith and went "same thing."

I've seen it. That's why I was making fun of it -- because it lets you know how badly Shepard can screw up. Course, you still get Stargazer, so clearly EVERYTHING wasn't wiped out. It's possible it only sets things on fire around the epicenter, or some lucky individuals survived the wave of flame, possibly by being underground or in stable space stations, as in standard post-apocalyptic fictions. My point is you can speculate about the worst synthesis can throw at you.

But a bad destroy Shepard literally sets earth on fire to stop the reapers. And possibly a few other planets, maybe the rest of the galaxy... But that's so impressively horrible that I wish it got more credit.

 
Destroy is pretty much a screw up no matter how high your EMS is.  No matter what, you're throwing the Geth and EDI under the bus to satisfy your own personal grudge, and basically condemning organics to one day make a race of synthetics that will wipe out all organics.  "Hey Reapers, I'm gonna stop you from killing things by killing things!"

Modifié par Geneaux486, 20 mai 2012 - 01:30 .

[Bill Casey]

and basically condemning organics to one day make a race of synthetics that will wipe out all organics.

That's racist...

[Geneaux486]

Bill Casey wrote...

and basically condemning organics to one day make a race of synthetics that will wipe out all organics.

That's racist...

Technically we're talking about a hypothetical race of synthetics that would only exist if Shepard commited genocide on the Geth.

[WinterCrow]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Destroy is pretty much a screw up no matter how high your EMS is.  No matter what, you're throwing the Geth and EDI under the bus to satisfy your own personal grudge, and basically condemning organics to one day make a race of synthetics that will wipe out all organics.  "Hey Reapers, I'm gonna stop you from killing things by killing things!"

Where did your "it's crearly stated in the game" go. Making assumptions again, are you? and this time, what's stated clearly in the game (it is possible to achieve piece between synthetics and organics) is not true anymore because it validates your point?

"Basically condemning all organics..." I don't remember anything like that stated as absolute truth. Unless the catalyst can't be wrong under any circumstances. But oh, wait, when you pick control there's still organics and synthetics, so you're condemning organics to one day start a war that will wipe themsleves out, aren't you?

"Hey reapers, I'm gonna stop you from controlling things by controlling things!"

Such a hypocrat...

Modifié par WinterCrow, 20 mai 2012 - 02:37 .

[Geneaux486]

WinterCrow wrote...
Where did your "it's crearly stated in the game" go. Making assumptions again, are you? and this time, what's stated clearly in the game (it is possible to achieve piece between synthetics and organics) is not true anymore because it validates your point?

"Basically condemning all organics..." I don't remember anything like that stated as absolute truth. Unless the catalyst can't be wrong under any circumstances. But oh, wait, when you pick control there's still organics and synthetics, so you're condemning organics to one day start a war that will wipe themsleves out, aren't you?

"Hey reapers, I'm gonna stop you from controlling things by controlling things!"

Such a hypocrat...

I was being facetious and playing up an earlier bit:

Others ruthlessely sacrificed the Geth for their own vengeance, and that's just as acceptable (See?  The whole " obnoxiously second-guessing why people make their video game choices" thing goes both ways!).

Modifié par Geneaux486, 20 mai 2012 - 02:51 .

[WinterCrow]

@ Geneaux 486 I know you were being facetious with the last sentence, yet with the rest of that paragraph you did exactly the same mistakes you say the others are doing. "Condemning all organics to be destroyed by synthetics" is a risk you take in both control and destroy options (and I'm not even sure synthesis solves that).

Control solves nothing more that the immediate reaper threat, just like destroy does (but *maybe* permanently). That ending message you take as religion is nothing more than a generic message that does not invalidate the possibility of the reapers returning after several thousand years. It has the same value as the "Critical mission failure" and makes just as much sense when you continue playing from an earlier save. Is just a game message, nothing more. You ended the immediate reaper threat. Nothing else. In the future, they may return or not, and that might create a new Mass Effect game, novel, comic or whatever, and as I said before, that message will not change that.

Speculation is what Bioware wanted, speculation is what we have. Forget about that message.

P.D. If the endings are to be taken at face value, not even destroy is a safe bet.... reapers can even indoctrinate while dead. We're screwed.

Modifié par WinterCrow, 20 mai 2012 - 09:22 .

[Mobius-Silent]

balance5050 wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Now, now. We don't KNOW it kills all sentient life. And it doesn't vaporize anything. What it does do... is set everything on fire.

Shepard_Alive also requires multiplayer to get, and is kind of an Easter egg. Now, you could easily guess Shepard can survive destroy, simply because you don't see Shepard die, just stagger back as the (very big) explosion hits.

Maybe there was a handy refrigerator.

No one walke out of the Normandy, and you clearly see the wave mainly affect only reapers and soldiers, that same red wave spreads through the galaxy and hit the Normandy, It appears that EVERYONE dies.

Check it out:

 

But the planet that the normandy landed on was not a smoking ruin, hence the effect of the red wave _must_ be different on some planets or must have not reached some planets

[Mobius-Silent]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Not true. Play the scene again - it is never stated what the Crucible does, the only thing the Reaper-King tells you is that "it opens up new possibilities".
New possibilities -> more than one. Not a difficult concept to grasp.

Maybe the three final choices were not even the original possibilities? We don't know.

Well first of all, we know for a fact that the Citadel is nothing more than a power source. Vendetta tells us that the original designs were modified to draw power from the Citadel, so we know that the three choices are originating from the Crucible, not the Citadel. Whatever roll the Citadel has in making them happen was the resut of the Crucible being designed to manipulate it. Secondly, the Catalyst even says the Crucible "changed" him, created new possibilities, that he couldn't "make happen" on his own.   The Crucible is what's doing the work.

So in short, yes, what I said before is true.

Again, I agree with much of what you say, but the above is inaccurate

Vendetta said...
The Catalyst enhances dark energy transmissions and coordinates the entire mass relay network In your cycle it is known as the Citadel.The Catalyst is the Citadel.

The plans for the Crucible were passed down to us from the previous cycle, and countless cycles before that

At some point, It is difficult to pinpoint when, The Crucible's plans were adapted to incorporate the use of the Catalyst

Presumably the Crucible was not sufficiently powerful to defeat the reapers

"Powerful" not "required more energy" at no point is it _stated_ that the Citadel is simply a power source. My personal interpretation is that the Citadel was used to disperse the effect of the Crucible across the galaxy using the mass relay network. They had a weapon that could destroy/synthesize the reapers locally but needed to distribute that effect. That is just one interpretation but I think it's much more likely than the Citadel being a just a power source and it certainly illustrates that "we know for a fact that the Citadel is nothing more than a power source" is not true.

Personally I believe that "Destroy" was built into the Crucible, but the Citadel has safeties that prevent the relay network being used that way (hence shooting out a conduit to get it to fire)
"Synthesis" was built into the Crucible by a previous race who were less warlike than the protheans, It is a program that is using mass effect fields to perform molecular-level  surgery and using the relay network to distribute the effect
"Control" is part of the Citadel itself, and was used in the creation of the Catalyst (Who is the mind of an organic who installed itself into the Citadel using the "control" console a long time ago, hence the Crucible isn't actually fired at full whack hence the Citadel survived and the relays aren't as wrecked as the full Crucible beam would have made them.

Modifié par Mobius-Silent, 20 mai 2012 - 03:14 .

[Volc19]

Yeah, I personally think the IT is as far into denial you can possibly get regarding the endings, so I have no reason to think committing genocide against the Geth, EDI, and any other synthetics in the galaxy is in any way positive.

I pick control, every time. It offers the best-case scenario for everyone. The Citadel stands, it seems like the relays weren't shown being obliterated (though it can be argued they still blew up), The Reapers are now a force for good in the galaxy, and the healing can begin.

I don't care if some call it "mass slavery". They're Reapers, they would have done the same to us given the chance.

[Jackums]

Volc19 wrote...

Yeah, I personally think the IT is as far into denial you can possibly get regarding the endings, so I have no reason to think committing genocide against the Geth, EDI, and any other synthetics in the galaxy is in any way positive.

I pick control, every time. It offers the best-case scenario for everyone. The Citadel stands, it seems like the relays weren't shown being obliterated (though it can be argued they still blew up), The Reapers are now a force for good in the galaxy, and the healing can begin.

I don't care if some call it "mass slavery". They're Reapers, they would have done the same to us given the chance.

Basically this.

In my initial playthrough, I picked Destroy simply because I saw Anderson choosing it and made a quick assumption that it was the "right" choice. But after learning more about the choices, I chose Control.

IT is incorrect and the Catalyst, IMO, was basically the author's (or in this case; writer's) mouthpiece. Therefore Control seems the most moral and beneficial to the galaxy, given the circumstances.

[Ultra Prism]

the reapers needs to stopped through destruction no matter the costs .... that was the mission, I knew sacrifices were to come

[Geneaux486]

@ Geneaux 486 I know you were being facetious with the last sentence, yet with the rest of that paragraph you did exactly the same mistakes you say the others are doing. "Condemning all organics to be destroyed by synthetics" is a risk you take in both control and destroy options (and I'm not even sure synthesis solves that).

 
I was being facetious with the whole thing.  The "same mistakes" that I made were an attempt to show how stupid it is to try to take some kind of moral high ground with your video game choices over those of others.  There is equal risk in all three choices, all three choices end the Reaper threat, and none of them can be done without Shepard getting his or her hands dirty.

That ending message you take as religion is nothing more than a generic message that does not invalidate the possibility of the reapers returning after several thousand years.

Again, I'm not taking the message as religion, I'm using basic reading comprehension.  The game tell us Shepard ended the Reaper threat.  That's what happened.  The word "temporary" ain't in there anywhere.  It says he ended it, so that's what happened.  It's ended, over, unless they retcon the story at a later date.  There is literally no reason to reject that message other than simply because it hurts your argument.

 If the endings are to be taken at face value, not even destroy is a safe bet.... reapers can even indoctrinate while dead. We're screwed.

The derelict-reaper was reduced to minimal functionality, not dead.  Destroy renders them completely non-functional, therefore they won't be able to indoctrinate.

"Powerful" not "required more energy" at no point is it _stated_ that the Citadel is simply a power source. My personal interpretation is that the Citadel was used to disperse the effect of the Crucible across the galaxy using the mass relay network. They had a weapon that could destroy/synthesize the reapers locally but needed to distribute that effect. That is just one interpretation but I think it's much more likely than the Citadel being a just a power source and it certainly illustrates that "we know for a fact that the Citadel is nothing more than a power source" is not true.

While Vendetta's words leave a little to interpretation, the fact that the Crucible was designed to use the Citadel at all proves that the functions, and therefore Shepard's choices at the end, are built into the Crucible.  Whatever parts of the Citadel make those options possible, the Crucible was designed and built to manipulate them.  Still, and I know this is just semantics and you do make a very good point, if the Crucible is not "sufficiently powerful" and the Citadel fixes that problem, it is still technically a source of power, or a "power source".

the reapers needs to stopped through destruction no matter the costs .... that was the mission, I knew sacrifices were to come

My Shepard's mission was to save everyone with the Crucible.  He picked control and carried that mission out perfectly.

[balance5050]

You picked control huh? What did your imagination do with the reapers?

[Keirus]

I was a mostly para shep, shot a few doods in the face but they deserved it (according to my personal morality).
Saved the Geth and Quarians, taught EDI altruism ect.
Initially chose destroy, these were my thoughts that many people have voiced before but whatever someone might find it interesting.

Destroy: Didn't like the fact we sacrifice the Geth / EDI after our journey together (although EDI did pop out and hug Joker at the end which I considered a glitch) I'm my opinion the Geth are now equal to any organic race and EDI is an individual.
And seen as the Geth's new personalities are made out of Legion who has with shep's help has seen the best and worst organic life has to offer have the greatest potential for good in a galaxy that needs rebuilding. Most crucially Legion realised that synthetic life isn't superior and is just as fallible as organics albeit in different ways. That already makes him more enlightened that most AI's you see in fiction.

Synthesis: Don't trust an ancient AI / entity which has been manipulating galactic events for eons to subscribe to human moralities and not manipulate me into its chosen path.

Control: This was tempting because of the way I played my shep my ideal society would be a benevolent dictatorship, however I don't think I could trust anyone including myself to have that sort of power. Basically my ideal system can't work because no one is qualified for the top job including my shep.

You see how people change over the insignificant time they spend alive, now as an immortal AI it wouldn't surprise me if the starchild was originally a selfless pacifist who changed his opinion over the almost unfathomable time it spent watching things unfold, not everything has to go skynet and decide everything needs to die in less than a second of gaining sentience.
Whos to say shep wont be the same, he's not unbreakable and he can make mistakes, he is only human.
Plus with control the starchild isn't necessarily an AI, it will probably survive the spess magic you unleash and you might become the next harbinger of his fleet. Too many variables.

tl;dr Too many variables, speculation futile but fun.

[Geneaux486]

balance5050 wrote...

You picked control huh? What did your imagination do with the reapers?

I covered this in an earlier post.  They act out Hamlet on a galactic level, then go into retirement in dark space.

[balance5050]

Geneaux486 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

You picked control huh? What did your imagination do with the reapers?

I covered this in an earlier post.  They act out Hamlet on a galactic level, then go into retirement in dark space.

HA! The silliness never dissapoints.....

[garrusfan1]

its shameful but I thought I chose destroy but actually chose control the colors confused me did anyone else do this on accident plus I wasn`t expecting that ending (shudder)

[balance5050]

garrusfan1 wrote...

its shameful but I thought I chose destroy but actually chose control the colors confused me did anyone else do this on accident plus I wasn`t expecting that ending (shudder)

LOL! I think the colors ARE meant to confuse.

"Well, that one has a blue light on it... but I DID just see TIM using it in my head... Why is Anderson using the renegade choice? I'm confused..."

I think this is how most people felt, and I think it's how it was designed.

[Geneaux486]

The colors are more about lethality than paragon/renegade, I think.

[Hadeedak]

Eh. Like I've said a few times, destroy is practical, ruthless, pragmatic, final, and destructive. I think there's a reason it's in red.

[balance5050]

 Relevant:


||==========================================================||
||....................................................................................................................||
||     Psychopaths Unite! Kill TIM for wanting Control and then do it anyway!........................ ...||
|| ....................................................................................................................||
============================================================ 

[Hadeedak]

Hey. HEY. Sole Survivor Shepard always hated TIM the most. I didn't even try to talk him into shooting himself on Esperanza. He died before he could shoot Anderson.

And then went with control. And she could pull it off, even though he couldn't. Screw Liara -- Her last thoughts were probably "NEENER NEENER, REVENGE IS FINALLY MINE."

[Geneaux486]

balance5050 wrote...

 Relevant:


||==========================================================||
||....................................................................................................................||
||     Psychopaths Unite! Kill TIM for wanting Control and then do it anyway!........................ ...||
|| ....................................................................................................................||
============================================================ 

I didn't kill TIM at all, and I was opposing him because he was wrecking everyone's personal junk all the time, doing stuff that, ironically, made it impossible for him to ever take control.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 20 mai 2012 - 05:07 .

[Evil Minion]

Geneaux486 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

 Relevant:


||==========================================================||
||....................................................................................................................||
||     Psychopaths Unite! Kill TIM for wanting Control and then do it anyway!........................ ...||
|| ....................................................................................................................||
============================================================ 

I didn't kill TIM at all, and I was opposing him because he was wrecking everyone's personal junk all the time.

At the time I killed TIM, I didn't know I was about to be confronted with a GhostKid and discovery that "Destroy" was going to eliminate my friends. My morality doesn't allow for such things.

PsychoShep changes direction when new info is presented; therefore, not a psycho.