1114 réponses à ce sujet

[balance5050]

Hadeedak wrote...

...I'm highly amused by the IT guy saying we're reading too much into what the game calls stuff.

And they've been called henchmen since game 1.

Very good. Indoctrination is how reapers "controlled" since game one as well.

[Hadeedak]

I'm pretty much framing this as one of the better moments in this thread or on the forums lately.

Control mojo. IS IT NOT OBVIOUS NOW?! All becomes clear!

[balance5050]

Hadeedak wrote...

I'm pretty much framing this as one of the better moments in this thread or on the forums lately.

Control mojo. IS IT NOT OBVIOUS NOW?! All becomes clear!

And in response I'll post an actual screenshot of evidence, which I still haven't seen for that "control mojo" thing.

http://3.bp.blogspot...s1600/indoc.png 

Modifié par balance5050, 22 mai 2012 - 05:37 .

[Hadeedak]

It just got linked last page, Balance. Oh well, here it is again.

http://mod.gib.me/ma...t3/testdump.txt

[balance5050]

Hadeedak wrote...

It just got linked last page, Balance. Oh well, here it is again.

http://mod.gib.me/ma...t3/testdump.txt

There's nicknames for things all over, control mojo is just reaper indoc power, it's the only thing that makes sense in context with the rest of the dialogue.

[Neizd]

So...just because I like red colour I made the right choice? O_O Good that indoctrination doesn't affect my colour preferences :]

[Hadeedak]

If you want to interpret it that way, I'm not stopping you.

I'm just amused by the irony.

[Hadeedak]

Neizd wrote...

So...just because I like red colour I made the right choice? O_O Good that indoctrination doesn't affect my colour preferences :]

Acceptable. I went blue for the pretty colors, among other reasons. Until the extended cut comes out and rewrites what we've got to go on, color's as good a reason as any.

[balance5050]

Hadeedak wrote...

If you want to interpret it that way, I'm not stopping you.

I'm just amused by the irony.

The irony is that you're FINALLY using actual game evidence to support your claims, It just comes from notes that don't even mention javic though, I'm proud of you?

Modifié par balance5050, 22 mai 2012 - 05:55 .

[WinterCrow]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

WinterCrow wrote...
@ Geneaux: it's quite tiresome to try to debate something with you. I'm done, I surrender. You don't have a clue about what a role playing game is, and you refuse to try and understand, have it your way.

I know what a role playing game is, have played PnP RPG's since the 80's and CRPG's since they were called "Adventure games" and you are 100% wrong. Any information delivered to the player outside of the in-game world is expected to be 100% accurate, it's also a terrible crutch but if the game says "You win" then you (The player) have won. Everything in-game is succeptable to perspective but OOC information is effectively "Word of God"

The subset of  "Role playing" where you ignore OOC information is ONLY RELEVENT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE CHARACTER and not applicable to the players understanding of the plot/setting/game

WinterCrow wrote... 
You have yet another extreme oppinion, but on the opposite side.  

 
He really doesn't, his opinion seems pretty much "middle of the road" with a few exceptions all he's illustrating is what is actually ingame. I don't like the end (and thus disagree with his assesment that is isn't poorly written) but his arguments are pretty simple and for the most part rely on 1-hand sources, I don't see much of that from you.

For the first part... you totally missed the point. If you played so many role playing games (or adventure games) then you should understand what I'm talking about.

When playing as Shepard, and making the final choice, the ending message is irrelevant. You make the choice as Shepard, and you use the info Shepard has. In those terms, I chose the safest bet: destroy. The other two, as I was saying, let the reapers live. So, from my Shepard's point of view, that's too much of a risk. I never know if the reapers will return, or if I, a mere human, can control them forever. That's why the ending message is irrelevant, as is the stargazer scene.

What I am told later as a player just doesn't matter. Shepard will never know of that, and therefore I won't evaluate my choices based on that. Simple as that.

I never said the reapers would return for sure, or contradicted that "word of god" you said. I'm saying my Shepard will not, and can't take that as relevant, since it's not told to him, or related to him in any way. Is it really that complicated?

For the second... well, we don't seem to be reading the same guy, to be honest. My position is destroy is the safest bet, his position is control is the best choice. I don't see how "control is the best choice and everything you can say about it is false" is middle grounds. I never disguised my opinions as facts anyway.

He is taking those final sentences as literally as he can, I just don't. Nothing lasts forever, not in ME universe or in ours, that goes for the reapers too. That "word of god" doesn't mention "for all eternity" or "forever" anyway. I don't see how considering the possibility of another reaper threat is such a madness, really, it's no big deal. I'm saying the possibility exists, and it does, why not?

I'm talking about hypothesis all the way, this guy is just rejecting those possibilities with his so loved canon. I disagree, and I'm pretty sure that the ending message didn't mean to be so freaking definitive, or else they wouldn't be so eager about us speculating.

P.D. about that resource you took from the game... it's funny. There's no way a regular player can find that out, and still doesn't mean Geneaux knew about the date of that event. I was right, he made it up, he didn't know, but now he's proven right. The same thing can happen with his choice of controlling the reapers... or it might not. You won't see undeniable arguments from me cause I'm still talking about chances.

[CubeDaily]

I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite thread on the forum.

[mjh417]

I picked control, pretty much by accident but unless IT is true than it really is the best option in my opinion. But in my opinion saying any of the options is better than another is like saying (insert awful black comedy joke about picking between three horrible options that all suck)

[Mobius-Silent]

WinterCrow wrote...

When playing as Shepard, and making the final choice, the ending message is irrelevant. You make the choice as Shepard, and you use the info Shepard has. In those terms, I chose the safest bet: destroy.

Right, so you're saying that from Shepards perspective he has no information that would suggest Control and Synthesis are safe options, that wasn't clear. ME3 is far from a pure RPG and plenty of players do not make their decisions in character. In that case I absolutely agree, IC the ending is a _horrible_ mess and if I was Shep I wouldn't trust a single word comming out of the Reaper boss, including what he offers in the way of a "destroy" option. However OOC Shep would be wrong, which makes the ending even more annoying.

[Geneaux486]

For the second... well, we don't seem to be reading the same guy, to be honest. My position is destroy is the safest bet, his position is control is the best choice. I don't see how "control is the best choice and everything you can say about it is false" is middle grounds. I never disguised my opinions as facts anyway.

You're not reading me at all, clearly.  My position is that all three choices are equally good, proven by post-choice confirmation both written and visible that they all end the Reaper threat for keeps. 

He is taking those final sentences as literally as he can,

Because they're stated plain as day.

I'm talking about hypothesis all the way, this guy is just rejecting those possibilities with his so loved canon.

All I'm saying is that in-game cannon makes IT incorrect, at least to the extent that the Reapers sucessfully manipulate Shepard into doing their bidding, as all three choices end the Reaper threat.  There's no argument to be had there, the game straight up tells us.  

still doesn't mean Geneaux knew about the date of that event. I was right, he made it up, he didn't know, but now he's proven right.

 
I knew about the date of the event beforehand from a statment made by developers, as I clearly stated before.  Be more ****ing presumptuous why don't ya  XD 
I didn't make up dick, but I suppose at this point you've gotta grasp at whatever you can, eh?

The same thing can happen with his choice of controlling the reapers... or it might not. You won't see undeniable arguments from me cause I'm still talking about chances.

Which is pointless in the face of game cannon that's stated clear as day.  You're still wrong, and you really should have dropped it long before getting to the point where you had to resort to accusing me of making up facts that coincidentally wind up being right.  I still can't believe you actually said that

Oh and stack that on top of the fact that being "done with" someone to you just means responding indirectly to him.  Only way you could get more blatant about it is if you start going "Mobius-Silent, could you tell Geneaux since I'm not talking to him that just because he's right doesn't mean he knew he was right."

Look, in all seriousness, I've really got nothing against you dude, but for pete's sake, if you're going to make a big song and dance about being done with me, then actually mean it.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 23 mai 2012 - 12:25 .

[Hadeedak]

balance5050 wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

If you want to interpret it that way, I'm not stopping you.

I'm just amused by the irony.

The irony is that you're FINALLY using actual game evidence to support your claims, It just comes from notes that don't even mention javic though, I'm proud of you?

I'm the one who's taking things literally. You're speculating there's more than face value. Burden of proof is on you guys.

[Geneaux486]

Hadeedak wrote...
I'm the one who's taking things literally. You're speculating there's more than face value. Burden of proof is on you guys.

They're never gonna accept that.

[Hadeedak]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...
I'm the one who's taking things literally. You're speculating there's more than face value. Burden of proof is on you guys.

They're never gonna accept that.

Unless I'm feeling whacky, I don't have to search files to see what happened, as far as I'm concerned, at LEAST until the EC comes out. I just have to play through, take control again, and bam.

I shouldn't have to dig through game files to say 'face value is a decent interpretation, pending further evidence'.

[Geneaux486]

Hadeedak wrote...
I shouldn't have to dig through game files to say 'face value is a decent interpretation, pending further evidence'.

Even if EC has nothing to do with IT they're still just gonna say "You were right but you weren't right on purpose."

[Lord_Frostwind]

Personally, I chose the Destroy option because it fit my Renegade Shep's personality. Knowing that galactic society will fall apart, all AI will be destroyed, but it will end the Reapers once and for all, serious case of ends justify the means. So my Shepard gave one last epic "F*** You!" to the galaxy.

Then I heard all about the indoctrination theory and I got really confused. So I guess my Shepard just hated everyone enough to not care if it sent the galaxy into the dark ages, he wanted the Reapers destroyed, and apparently that was the right choice.

[jsadalia]

They are all the right choice. The whole final chapter is about shaping the future, not victory (as in all ME games, victory is assured regardless of your choices: even if you die to achieve it). The IT idea that 2 out of 3 choices will indoctrinate you but also provide the same weird jungle planet and stargazer visions that breaking free of indoctrination provides is just...odd.

[Hadeedak]

Lord_Frostwind wrote...

Personally, I chose the Destroy option because it fit my Renegade Shep's personality. Knowing that galactic society will fall apart, all AI will be destroyed, but it will end the Reapers once and for all, serious case of ends justify the means. So my Shepard gave one last epic "F*** You!" to the galaxy.

Then I heard all about the indoctrination theory and I got really confused. So I guess my Shepard just hated everyone enough to not care if it sent the galaxy into the dark ages, he wanted the Reapers destroyed, and apparently that was the right choice.

You have the best Shepard.

[DeadpoolBub]

I did. I got Indoctrinated by my friend, I was in a XBL party with him because he wanted me to hear my reaction. I picked Synthesis, as I had forgotten that Saren wanted the same thing.

Every other time I play the game from here on out, I'll only be picking Destroy. If Shepard can live through it, then so can EDI & the Geth... That little bastard was probably lying about them getting destroyed anyway.

[Geneaux486]

DeadpoolBub wrote...

I did. I got Indoctrinated by my friend, I was in a XBL party with him because he wanted me to hear my reaction. I picked Synthesis, as I had forgotten that Saren wanted the same thing.

Every other time I play the game from here on out, I'll only be picking Destroy. If Shepard can live through it, then so can EDI & the Geth... That little bastard was probably lying about them getting destroyed anyway.

People keep saying Synthesis is what Saren wanted, but this isn't true.  Saren's grand vision for the future was that the Reapers spare the Turians in return for a life of servitude.  It's a lie either he told himself or Harbinger told him to ease his growing doubt that the Reapers would betray him.  Saren's vision was impossible, as the Reapers would never do such a thing, nor do they have the means or motivation to do such a thing.  The Crucible makes it possible because it is independent of the Reapers.

[balance5050]

Geneaux486 wrote...

DeadpoolBub wrote...

I did. I got Indoctrinated by my friend, I was in a XBL party with him because he wanted me to hear my reaction. I picked Synthesis, as I had forgotten that Saren wanted the same thing.

Every other time I play the game from here on out, I'll only be picking Destroy. If Shepard can live through it, then so can EDI & the Geth... That little bastard was probably lying about them getting destroyed anyway.

People keep saying Synthesis is what Saren wanted, but this isn't true.  Saren's grand vision for the future was that the Reapers spare the Turians in return for a life of servitude.  It's a lie either he told himself or Harbinger told him to ease his growing doubt that the Reapers would betray him.  Saren's vision was impossible, as the Reapers would never do such a thing, nor do they have the means or motivation to do such a thing.  The Crucible makes it possible because it is independent of the Reapers.

Saren would have chosen it if he was in this postition though.

[Geneaux486]

balance5050 wrote...
Saren would have chosen it if he was in this postition though.

And?

Modifié par Geneaux486, 23 mai 2012 - 03:27 .