1114 réponses à ce sujet

[balance5050]

Just sayin, it is what he wanted.

[Geneaux486]

balance5050 wrote...

Just sayin, it is what he wanted.

He wasn't there so you don't know.

If you remember, even after Soveriegn gave him those implantations, he still acknowleged the Reapers as a bad thing, just not something that could be beaten.  If he were presented with the Crucible, I think he'd have blown that red tube to bits in a heartbeat.

All that aside, Shepard and Saren have overlapping goals no matter what.  Saren wants to save lives, Shepard wants to save lives.  Does that make saving lives part of the Reaper agenda?  That's assuming this particular goal is overlapping.  Saren wanted an imaginary fantasy existence where everyone was cyborgs and tended to the Reapers.  Shepard, in choosing synthesis, creates a very real existence where everyone's DNA is strengthened with synthetic material and the Reapers lose all purpose and leave.  The two goals aren't even similar, let alone the same thing.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 23 mai 2012 - 03:38 .

[llbountyhunter]

Geneaux486 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Just sayin, it is what he wanted.

He wasn't there so you don't know.

If you remember, even after Soveriegn gave him those implantations, he still acknowleged the Reapers as a bad thing, just not something that could be beaten.  If he were presented with the Crucible, I think he'd have blown that red tube to bits in a heartbeat.

All that aside, Shepard and Saren have overlapping goals no matter what.  Saren wants to save lives, Shepard wants to save lives.  Does that make saving lives part of the Reaper agenda?  That's assuming this particular goal is overlapping.  Saren wanted an imaginary fantasy existence where everyone was cyborgs and tended to the Reapers.  Shepard, in choosing synthesis, creates a very real existence where everyone's DNA is strengthened with synthetic material and the Reapers lose all purpose and leave.  The two goals aren't even similar, let alone the same thing.

saving lives is not part of reaper agenda... however BELIVING that helping the reapers will save lives is called indoctrination. thats were shepard differs.


and doesnt saren say that uniting with the reapers and becoming part-synthetic gives us "the strengths of both, but the weaknesses of neither"

...doesnt sound to eager to hit that destroy tube....

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 23 mai 2012 - 03:44 .

[Geneaux486]

llbountyhunter wrote...
and doesnt saren say that uniting the reapers and becoming part-synthetic gives us "the strengths of both, but the weaknesses of neither"

...doesnt sound to eager to hit that destroy tube....

Yeah that came off like a weird combination of indoctrination and Stockholm Syndrome.  I think he was just trying to ease his own fears at that point, reassure himself that he was making the right choice.  Shepard's paragon or renegade dialogue options reveal an inner conflict of Saren's not so much with indoctrination as it is with his own feeling of helplessness and the fact that he has to bury his convictions.  I'm of the opinion that he had more control over himself than the Illusive Man did when they met their respective ends, the Illusive Man pulling the trigger because he didn't want to be controlled, and Saren pulling the trigger because he realized he gave up too quickly and wound up not being able to justify his horrible actions to himself any longer.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 23 mai 2012 - 03:49 .

[balance5050]

Geneaux486 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Just sayin, it is what he wanted.

He wasn't there so you don't know.

If you remember, even after Soveriegn gave him those implantations, he still acknowleged the Reapers as a bad thing, just not something that could be beaten.  If he were presented with the Crucible, I think he'd have blown that red tube to bits in a heartbeat.

All that aside, Shepard and Saren have overlapping goals no matter what.  Saren wants to save lives, Shepard wants to save lives.  Does that make saving lives part of the Reaper agenda? 

"The relationship is symbiotic, organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of te future Shepard, the evolution of ALL organic life. This is our destiny, join sovereign, and experience a TRUE rebirth."

Yeah, Saren would have chosen synthesis.

[DarkMoon596]

I, like most people, took the ending at face value and didn't think much of it. I didn't assume there was a giant meaning on it until later.

So I chose control. It seemed like the best option at the time.

[Geneaux486]

balance5050 wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Just sayin, it is what he wanted.

He wasn't there so you don't know.

If you remember, even after Soveriegn gave him those implantations, he still acknowleged the Reapers as a bad thing, just not something that could be beaten.  If he were presented with the Crucible, I think he'd have blown that red tube to bits in a heartbeat.

All that aside, Shepard and Saren have overlapping goals no matter what.  Saren wants to save lives, Shepard wants to save lives.  Does that make saving lives part of the Reaper agenda? 

"The relationship is symbiotic, organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of te future Shepard, the evolution of ALL organic life. This is our destiny, join sovereign, and experience a TRUE rebirth."

Yeah, Saren would have chosen synthesis.

Technically Saren wasn't synthesized like we see at the end of ME3.  He just had a bunch of Reaper tech jammed up in his junk, like the Illusive Man.

[balance5050]

Geneaux486 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Just sayin, it is what he wanted.

He wasn't there so you don't know.

If you remember, even after Soveriegn gave him those implantations, he still acknowleged the Reapers as a bad thing, just not something that could be beaten.  If he were presented with the Crucible, I think he'd have blown that red tube to bits in a heartbeat.

All that aside, Shepard and Saren have overlapping goals no matter what.  Saren wants to save lives, Shepard wants to save lives.  Does that make saving lives part of the Reaper agenda? 

"The relationship is symbiotic, organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of te future Shepard, the evolution of ALL organic life. This is our destiny, join sovereign, and experience a TRUE rebirth."

Yeah, Saren would have chosen synthesis.

Technically Saren wasn't synthesized like we see at the end of ME3.  He just had a bunch of Reaper tech jammed up in his junk, like the Illusive Man.

Correct.

Modifié par balance5050, 23 mai 2012 - 03:52 .

[Geneaux486]

balance5050 wrote...
Right.

And that's not synthesis.  Best case scenario it was Tetanus.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 23 mai 2012 - 03:53 .

[balance5050]

Geneaux486 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...
Right.

And that's not synthesis.

Very good. Atleast not the type we see in the end.

Modifié par balance5050, 23 mai 2012 - 03:59 .

[BP20125810]

Mr_Glasses wrote...

People unwilling to destroy Geth.
You do realize you can just fix Geth or build new ones.

That's like saying you can rebuild people.  The geth were comepletly sentient in MY game.

[balance5050]

Why would destroy affect all kinds of Synthetic life, but control only effects the reapers?

[PsychoticFox]

I will always pick destroy because I've spent THREE GAMES trying to do just that. I can't have gone through all of that just to keep the damn things around.

[Geneaux486]

balance5050 wrote...

Why would destroy affect all kinds of Synthetic life, but control only effects the reapers?

'Cause control puts things in Shepard's control.  I suppose if your Shepard would do something like that it'd be possible, but mine just left the Geth and EDI alone.

[davishepard]

balance5050 wrote...

Why would destroy affect all kinds of Synthetic life, but control only effects the reapers?

There's two options, to me:

1. That's simply how it works. The red shockwave destroys all synthetics that it hits. The blue shockwave it's a control signal/frequency/whatever specific to the Reapers and the Reapers only.
2. Catalyst lied, and only the Reapers are destroyed by the red shockwave. Since the game doesn't show - yet - the Geth or EDI dying because of that option, one may think that they may have survived at the end.

[balance5050]

davishepard wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Why would destroy affect all kinds of Synthetic life, but control only effects the reapers?

There's two options, to me:

1. That's simply how it works. The red shockwave destroys all synthetics that it hits. The blue shockwave it's a control signal/frequency/whatever specific to the Reapers and the Reapers only.
2. Catalyst lied, and only the Reapers are destroyed by the red shockwave. Since the game doesn't show - yet - the Geth or EDI dying because of that option, one may think that they may have survived at the end.

#2 please 

[Vigilant111]

Lord_Frostwind wrote...

Personally, I chose the Destroy option because it fit my Renegade Shep's personality. Knowing that galactic society will fall apart, all AI will be destroyed, but it will end the Reapers once and for all, serious case of ends justify the means. So my Shepard gave one last epic "F*** You!" to the galaxy.

Then I heard all about the indoctrination theory and I got really confused. So I guess my Shepard just hated everyone enough to not care if it sent the galaxy into the dark ages, he wanted the Reapers destroyed, and apparently that was the right choice.

I think it, u said it, well done, even though my Shepard is paragon

Reapers are such bullies, what gives them the right to interfere with other worlds' affairs, probably destroyed their own original organic creaters and making sure that no new organics will revolt against them

Modifié par Vigilant111, 23 mai 2012 - 04:20 .

[davishepard]

balance5050 wrote...

davishepard wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Why would destroy affect all kinds of Synthetic life, but control only effects the reapers?

There's two options, to me:

1. That's simply how it works. The red shockwave destroys all synthetics that it hits. The blue shockwave it's a control signal/frequency/whatever specific to the Reapers and the Reapers only.
2. Catalyst lied, and only the Reapers are destroyed by the red shockwave. Since the game doesn't show - yet - the Geth or EDI dying because of that option, one may think that they may have survived at the end.

#2 please 

If #2, it also would make the Destroy option obviously Renegade, since even the good synthetics surviving, Shepard chose that option with the acknowledge at the moment that they would get killed. Their survival would be a good thing, and I personally think that they would have to add some good to the Paragon choice that Control would be, since Shepard isn't wishing to sacrifice the Geth and EDI to stop the Reapers by choosing that choice. I mean, besides stoping the Reapers and not sacrificing the Geth. Shepard himself is apparently screwed in Control as it is.

If in Destroy Shepard is supposedely alive, what is of him in Control? C'mon, it couldn't be the same as being desintegrated in that silly Synthesis choice, please.

[Geneaux486]

Vigilant111 wrote...
probably destroyed their own original organic creaters and making sure that no new organics will revolt against them

My theory is that the race that came up with the idea for the extinction cycle made themselves into Harbinger to kick things off.

[balance5050]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Lord_Frostwind wrote...

Personally, I chose the Destroy option because it fit my Renegade Shep's personality. Knowing that galactic society will fall apart, all AI will be destroyed, but it will end the Reapers once and for all, serious case of ends justify the means. So my Shepard gave one last epic "F*** You!" to the galaxy.

Then I heard all about the indoctrination theory and I got really confused. So I guess my Shepard just hated everyone enough to not care if it sent the galaxy into the dark ages, he wanted the Reapers destroyed, and apparently that was the right choice.

I think it, u said it, well done, even though my Shepard is paragon

Reapers are such bullies, what gives them the right to interfere with other worlds' affairs, probably destroyed their own original organic creaters and making sure that no new organics will revolt against them

Or to make sure no "synthetics" revolt against them;)

[Hadeedak]

Eh, control Shepard also saves the Citadel, and has the only ending which doesn't TOTALLY explode the reapers.

I think control's sweetened enough as it is. Now, taking the penalty from destroy would strike me as dumb, because then it'd be miles better. I guess you could still justify a sacrifice to save the relays and the Citadel.... But eh. I suspect EDI lives through destroy, but the geth don't. I have no evidence for that, though, and it's purely speculating, because the kid doesn't mention her and technically she's a ship.

[balance5050]

Hadeedak wrote...

Eh, control Shepard also saves the Citadel, and has the only ending which doesn't TOTALLY explode the reapers.

I think control's sweetened enough as it is. Now, taking the penalty from destroy would strike me as dumb, because then it'd be miles better. I guess you could still justify a sacrifice to save the relays and the Citadel.... But eh. I suspect EDI lives through destroy, but the geth don't. I have no evidence for that, though, and it's purely speculating, because the kid doesn't mention her and technically she's a ship.

Uhm, both control AND synthesis "doesn't TOTALLY explode the reapers." Destroy is the only one that does.

[Vigilant111]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...
probably destroyed their own original organic creaters and making sure that no new organics will revolt against them

My theory is that the race that came up with the idea for the extinction cycle made themselves into Harbinger to kick things off.

Harbinger must have came from a really wise/clever/realistic and no neccessarily idealistic race, are the reapers getting paid for keeping galactic peace by harvesting (I doubt they don't have any self interest), did they think about any other ways of doing so without having to sacrificing so many lives?

and why does a harbinger say stuff like:"we will defeat u" instead of "we are helping u, don't u understand?"

Modifié par Vigilant111, 23 mai 2012 - 04:35 .

[Geneaux486]

Vigilant111 wrote...
are the reapers getting paid for keeping galactic peace by harvesting (I doubt they don't have any self interest), did they think about any other ways of doing so without having to sacrificing so many lives?

They view themselves as perfection, and they view they atrocities they commit as they make more of themselves as extending organic races the honor of joining their race.

and why does a harbinger say stuff like:"we will defeat u" instead of "we are helping u, don't u understand?"

"We are the Harbinger of their perfection."

"That which you know as 'Reaper' is your salvation through destruction."

[Vigilant111]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...
are the reapers getting paid for keeping galactic peace by harvesting (I doubt they don't have any self interest), did they think about any other ways of doing so without having to sacrificing so many lives?

They view themselves as perfection, and they view they atrocities they commit as they make more of themselves as extending organic races the honor of joining their race.

and why does a harbinger say stuff like:"we will defeat u" instead of "we are helping u, don't u understand?"

"We are the Harbinger of their perfection."

"That which you know as 'Reaper' is your salvation through destruction."

Scoffs... Perfection, now that's arrogance, I am sure Javik thinks his civilisation is perfect, and look how it turned out

If Geth and Quarians can resolve their conflicts themselves, albeit with help of Shepard, I don't see why some nobody should get involved, especially with such violent means