131 réponses à ce sujet

[Atheosis]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

More buffs that are too minor to make a difference, not suprised.

The buffs to Lift Grenade, AR, and Marksman are all fairly significant actually.  The buffs to Shockwave and Incinerate not so much.

Modifié par Atheosis, 09 mai 2012 - 10:36 .

[HellishFiend]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

More buffs that are too minor to make a difference, not suprised.

If I had to decide betwen you being a game developer, or a teenager, I'd guess teenager. 

You dont fine tune the balance of a game by making drastic changes. You gently tweak until it gets to where you need it to be. Given that we're receiving balance updates every week, I'm sure you can make some logical sense out of it if you try hard enough. 

[Arkley]

Ugh...

You know, I hate those people who always seem to be posting negative things. You know the sort; to them it doesn't matter what Bioware does, it's either bad or should have been better. But lately, I catch myself making more and more posts like those people. I'm starting to understand why people get that way. It all builds up, all those little disappointments, all those times you mentally extended the benefit of the doubt to a developer only to see nothing come of it.

These balance changes are constantly underwhelming and change virtually nothing. The list is tiny, there have been barely any changes made. The changes made are tiny, and have no impact whatsoever. And it's always the same. It's been this way since they started making balance changes. How many horribly under-performing powers/weapons/classes have they actually fixed, in all this time? If "Hurricane & Human Soldier" isn't the entire list, it's most of it.

It was just yesterday, when they announced that the balance changes were being delayed (again) that I posted, optimistically, that it could have its benefits. Ironically, I'd suggested the delay could be because they intended to make bigger changes than usual.

Instead, we got a "buff" to Shockwave, which took it from "abysmal" to "really crap" on the scale of usability, the buff that Lift Grenades should have gotten last week, microscopic cooldown reductions to two powers that didn't need cooldown reductions, and tiny changes to a unit nobody cares about.

And you know what the worst part is? Even if they do listen to us screaming and wringing our hands about how god-damn awful the balance is, they won't fix anything. Look at the whole Assault Rifle problem. We've all known how crap they are since the game began. Bioware have turned their attention to Assault Rifles a few times already. And...they're still awful. Probably will be for a long time.

So, let's say Bioware does recognize that Shockwave isn't going to somehow be fixed just because it now does a grand total of a couple-freaking-hundred more damage. That's great! If they stick to their usual schedule for adjustments, we can expect a usable, albeit not powerful Shockwave sometime around 2014.

About 6 months after Assault Rifles are fixed.

And about 12 months after the game is completely dead.

[RamsenC]

The reason they are probably making small changes is because they probably don't want to nerf something they made overpowered since the community will freak out. Although they did overbuff sabatoge backfire.

[Poekel]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Merkit91 wrote...

"Cerberus Centurion
- Reduced ideal range from target from 12 meters to 8 meters
- Reduced ideal max range from target from 40 meters to 35 meters"
What does that mean?

Can someone explain this?

Any maybe give us an example of what one meter is in the game?

Might have something to do with AI. Distance they start looking for cover and shoot and maybe distance they usually stop coming closer if there is cover 

[BeardyMcGoo]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Merkit91 wrote...

"Cerberus Centurion
- Reduced ideal range from target from 12 meters to 8 meters
- Reduced ideal max range from target from 40 meters to 35 meters"
What does that mean?

Can someone explain this?

Any maybe give us an example of what one meter is in the game?

I usually use the biotic bubble as a reference. The small one is 3m, the upgraded one is 3.9.

Edit: That's radius, of course, so it's from the middle of the bubble.

Modifié par BeardyMcGoo, 09 mai 2012 - 10:50 .

[InterzoneAgent]

As long as they don't touch Sabotage Backfire and the Geth Infiltrator's Cloak-Proximity mine combo any time soon, I'm happy. A Salarian/Geth Infiltrator team against Cerberus makes Silver seem like Bronze and Gold seem like Silver. Fully extracted last night on Gold-Cerberus-Condor with a totally random team using the GI. The proximity mine is so silly that I almost don't want to keep typing, lest I jinx it.

Modifié par InterzoneAgent, 09 mai 2012 - 10:49 .

[Sacrificial Bias]

I see they still haven't acknowledged how badly the last "buff" to Singularity made the Rank 6 Detonate evolution utterly worthless. Someone over there hates the Human Adept.

Eagle and Crusader, still useless.

And the problem with Shockwave wasn't that the biotic explosion damage was weak, just that it had a hell of a time actually reaching your target.

I see as always, Bioware doesn't listen to their fanbase. Anyone who thinks otherwise ought to refer back here.

[Sacrificial Bias]

On the bright side, I'll be looking forward to using my Human Soldier some more. Might even promote just so I can name him "Master Chief".

[LadyAlekto]

My opinion on the AR buff......

I AM INVINCIBLE WITH UNLIMITED AMMO REVENANT o0

[InterzoneAgent]

Sacrificial Bias wrote...

I see they still haven't acknowledged how badly the last "buff" to Singularity made the Rank 6 Detonate evolution utterly worthless. Someone over there hates the Human Adept.

Eagle and Crusader, still useless.

And the problem with Shockwave wasn't that the biotic explosion damage was weak, just that it had a hell of a time actually reaching your target.

I see as always, Bioware doesn't listen to their fanbase. Anyone who thinks otherwise ought to refer back here.

That botched buff to Singularity does suck. I used to play Adept a lot, but they seem too weak now.

That said, don't underestimate how difficult a position Bioware is in when it comes to buffing/nerfing things. There is a temptation to be reactive and nerf things immediately when people find cheap power combinations, and for the most part they have not done this. Almost everything they do is a buff, and they do seem to listen.

Singularity will get fixed if enough people clamour over it.

[stribies]

HellishFiend wrote...

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

More buffs that are too minor to make a difference, not suprised.

If I had to decide betwen you being a game developer, or a teenager, I'd guess teenager. 

You dont fine tune the balance of a game by making drastic changes. You gently tweak until it gets to where you need it to be. Given that we're receiving balance updates every week, I'm sure you can make some logical sense out of it if you try hard enough. 

With that said, shockwave will never be good if they only change stats and never fix any bugs this game has.

[ZombieGambit]

Noooooooo, my Ballistic Blades! What did you do to them!?

[HellishFiend]

ZombieGambit wrote...

Noooooooo, my Ballistic Blades! What did you do to them!?

Relax, Ballistic Blades are still amazing. Just take the damage evolution instead of cone from now on, aim it, and watch things stagger and die. 

[aznricepuff]

HellishFiend wrote...

You dont fine tune the balance of a game by making drastic changes. You gently tweak until it gets to where you need it to be.

That's actually the exact opposite of what is considered good development practice. Generally you either double or halve (depending on the situation) the 'effectiveness' of something, do some testing, and then fine tune based on results. If you just take baby steps, oftentimes you will find that the change had no (or little) effect. And now the problem is that you don't know whether it's because the change you made was too small, or that what you changed wasn't the fundamental problem with whatever you were trying to fix. And the only way to know is to make the change bigger, so you might as well have started with a big change in the first place.

Granted, some of this is supposed to happen strictly in-house (i.e. you shouldn't release drastic balance changes and let the public act as your QA), but a certain amount of feedback can only be gathered from public release, hence you still shouldn't take the incremental approach with public balance changes.

[haisho]

I think I can offer a little bit of explanation on the Centurion range changes.

The ideal range is in short, their comfort zone against targets. The first (which should have been reworded to minimum ideal range) was reduced so they'd be slightly closer to their targets at most. If their target gets any closer, they'll begin to fall back to at least that range if they don't decide to melee.

Ideal max range is the maximum range they'll fall back to when engaged. It's not very apparent as they die very quickly, but Cerberus troops can and do fall back from time to time. This new limit is the maximum they'll fall back to.

Overall, they'll be much more closer in combat, something handy for Batarians and Krogans.

Modifié par haisho, 09 mai 2012 - 11:05 .

[Atheosis]

aznricepuff wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

You dont fine tune the balance of a game by making drastic changes. You gently tweak until it gets to where you need it to be.

That's actually the exact opposite of what is considered good development practice. Generally you either double or halve (depending on the situation) the 'effectiveness' of something, do some testing, and then fine tune based on results. If you just take baby steps, oftentimes you will find that the change had no (or little) effect. And now the problem is that you don't know whether it's because the change you made was too small, or that what you changed wasn't the fundamental problem with whatever you were trying to fix. And the only way to know is to make the change bigger, so you might as well have started with a big change in the first place.

Granted, some of this is supposed to happen strictly in-house (i.e. you shouldn't release drastic balance changes and let the public act as your QA), but a certain amount of feedback can only be gathered from public release, hence you still shouldn't take the incremental approach with public balance changes.

Yep.  And as a designer you also should be able to use some judgement to determine if something is grossly underpowered (Shockwave) or only slightly underpowered (Submission Net).  From that judgement the scale of your buffs should follow accordingly.  If they take the 10% buff every few weeks approach with the Eagle, that gun will never be fixed.

[DaDiddles]

aznricepuff wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

You dont fine tune the balance of a game by making drastic changes. You gently tweak until it gets to where you need it to be.

That's actually the exact opposite of what is considered good development practice. Generally you either double or halve (depending on the situation) the 'effectiveness' of something, do some testing, and then fine tune based on results. If you just take baby steps, oftentimes you will find that the change had no (or little) effect. And now the problem is that you don't know whether it's because the change you made was too small, or that what you changed wasn't the fundamental problem with whatever you were trying to fix. And the only way to know is to make the change bigger, so you might as well have started with a big change in the first place.

Granted, some of this is supposed to happen strictly in-house (i.e. you shouldn't release drastic balance changes and let the public act as your QA), but a certain amount of feedback can only be gathered from public release, hence you still shouldn't take the incremental approach with public balance changes.

I don't think it's just a matter of doubling / halfing numbers and making adjustments from there, it's knowing what numbers to even look at in the first place. Singularity is a good example of this, where they buffed things that didn't really need buffing (which nerfed the explosion perk by consequence). The Singularity buff in the end made almost no difference and certainly didn't make the Human Adept any better.

The new Shockwave buff also seems to be an example of this. I'll have to try and use it and see if the extra damage really makes a difference (I kind of doubt it), but almost everyone complained about Shockwave's range, not the damage, so it seems kinda silly to buff the damage and not address the range.

It's kind of like having a broken windshield, but instead of fixing the windshield, you go and get new tires. The new tires are great and all, but that's really not where the problem was, LoL.

[brian_breed]

Atheosis wrote...

Not bad. Still don't get why you guys think certain terribad weapons don't need major attention though. Right now we still have a lot of weapons that no one with any sense will ever use, Viper, Incisor, Locust, Scimitar, and Eagle coming immediately to mind.

Viper: a great weapon for non-infiltrator snipers or people with crappier aim. With AP and DPS mods, the weapon performs well.

Incisor: for the last time, tap DOWN on your joystick/mouse just as you fire and you can have three perfect headshots. Great weapon.

Locust: If you have both the extended clip and heatsink, you have 11 seconds of low-recoil/moderate damage fire.

Scimitar: perfect shotgun for Vanguards and Melee classes because of its high rate of fire and broad hitbox.

Don't have an Eagle but some people swear by it.

[astheoceansblue]

HellishFiend wrote...

Is shockwave still glitched to where sometimes it wont hit if you take the radius evolution?

Seems to be. jsut tested it and it bugged out after wave 3 solo.

The big Xplosions were nice until then.

[-Morbid-]

HellishFiend wrote...

You dont fine tune the balance of a game by making drastic changes. You gently tweak until it gets to where you need it to be. Given that we're receiving balance updates every week, I'm sure you can make some logical sense out of it if you try hard enough. 

I partially agree, but at the rate they are "improving" things that need it, most people won't be playing anymore when they finally start to get things balanced out.

If this was an MMORPG then slow adjustments would be the way to go. Instead, this is pretty close to a "flavor of the month" shooting game, and lots of the players are going to move on to the next Gears of Duty: Modern Battlefield Evolved game when it comes out, and we are already seeing many fans of the series give up and move on because of the lack of proper balance changes and bug fixes.

The more time they spend ****ing around, the less people there will be around to care.

[A Wild Snorlax]

HellishFiend wrote...

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

More buffs that are too minor to make a difference, not suprised.

If I had to decide betwen you being a game developer, or a teenager, I'd guess teenager. 

You dont fine tune the balance of a game by making drastic changes. You gently tweak until it gets to where you need it to be. Given that we're receiving balance updates every week, I'm sure you can make some logical sense out of it if you try hard enough. 

1/10, troll harder. If I had to guess between you being a fanboy or a sheep I'd say both.

What I said is true, these changes are not going to make much of a difference, allthough the cooldown improvements to AR rush and Marksman are kind of nice. Lift grenade is still one of the worst grenade powers (and overall worst powers), shockwave is still broken and the range is too short leaving the human adept as underpowered and (for the most part) useless as ever, and incinerate is still weak especially considering how hard it is to set up combos with it.

-Morbid- wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

You
dont fine tune the balance of a game by making drastic changes. You
gently tweak until it gets to where you need it to be. Given that we're
receiving balance updates every week, I'm sure you can make some logical
sense out of it if you try hard enough. 

I
partially agree, but at the rate they are "improving" things that need
it, most people won't be playing anymore when they finally start to get
things balanced out.

If this was an MMORPG then slow adjustments
would be the way to go. Instead, this is pretty close to a "flavor of
the month" shooting game, and lots of the players are going to move on
to the next Gears of Duty: Modern Battlefield Evolved game when it comes
out, and we are already seeing many fans of the series give up and move
on because of the lack of proper balance changes and bug fixes.

The more time they spend ****ing around, the less people there will be around to care.

Also this ^

Modifié par A Wild Snorlax, 09 mai 2012 - 11:27 .

[Bedlam74]

I'm so sad about Shockwave. It was a fantastic power in ME2. My adept and Jack would devastate bad guys. Now, Shockwave is a shadow of it's former glory, despite the buffs they give it. It's just as useless in SP. Singularity isn't any better, and weakening biotic explosions and singularities almost make Human Adepts pointless.

I wouldn't be surprised if they set their eyes on Wreave next.

[brian_breed]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

More buffs that are too minor to make a difference, not suprised.

If I had to decide betwen you being a game developer, or a teenager, I'd guess teenager. 

You dont fine tune the balance of a game by making drastic changes. You gently tweak until it gets to where you need it to be. Given that we're receiving balance updates every week, I'm sure you can make some logical sense out of it if you try hard enough. 

1/10, troll harder. If I had to guess between you being a fanboy or a sheep I'd say both.

What I said is true, these changes are not going to make much of a difference, allthough the cooldown improvements to AR rush and Marksman are kind of nice. Lift grenade is still one of the worst grenade powers (and overall worst powers), shockwave is still broken and the range is too short leaving the human adept as underpowered and (for the most part) useless as ever, and incinerate is still weak especially considering how hard it is to set up combos with it.

The AR and Marksman CD reductions are not "kind of nice." They're incredible. They make Human and Turian soldiers far more viable, and allow for significantly heavier loadouts.

Lift grenade is a detonator off of a CD. 

Warp+Shockwave = strongest detonation in-game. Shockwave is a phenomenal crowd controller. It deals adequate damage to a row of NPCs, and it staggers everything short of a Banshee/Prime/Atlas long enough to break from cover.

Incinerate just received an additional base 40 damage over time. Now it deals a minimum of 600 total damage. That's an extra Carnifex shot into a target.

[cronshaw]

Ballistic Blade Power
- Fixed evolution 2 to increase the cone angle to 110 degrees instead of 360 degrees

Doh!

Modifié par modok8, 09 mai 2012 - 11:33 .