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Mass Effect 3: Into The Unknown


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#176
fainmaca

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Hey guys! Been finishing my move this weekend (all settled now), and had a chance to do some pondering, specifically about my favorite video game character: Jack. Thought I'd share my thoughts with you guys.

Now originally this was in a message to one of the people I frequently chat with on FF.net. He asked me a simple yes/no question and got the verbal equivalent of a bazooka to the face. Be warned- don't ask me questions when I'm ruminating. The answer may be a long one, and not entirely related to the question. I've adjusted it for a forum post, slightly.

First off, the main theme I got from Jack. A lot of people look at Jack, and they see a messed-up, broken, unappealing woman who needs some of Shepard's magical Wang-fu to make everything bright and sparkly and brilliant. I find this to be a very poor way to look at the character and, frankly, a disservice to such a complex creation. When i look at Jack and her story arc in ME2, I see one theme now: Acceptance. When we meet Jack, she has no peace because there is no acceptance in her life. Those around her look down on her or openly cast her out because of her origins, her appearance or her attitude. The only time she finds this acceptance, something goes wrong (Murtock dies, the outcast camp gets torched by the Turians, Manara turns out to be a greedy little so-and-so). This leads Jack to the point where she cannot even accept herself. She's convinced that she's a messed-up, psychotic (word for a female dog) whose life is always going to be the same as it has been: struggle and heartache. That's why she seems to have given up on getting attached to things, concluding they'll always end badly for her, and pushes away anybody who ever tries to get close to her.

And then in steps Shepard, and (s)he helps her to face the demons that she stores in her own head, to leave behind what Cerberus did to her and to accept who she is now. She's not the Cerberus creation, she's not Subject Zero, she's Jack. The best line that deals with this is when she says: "F**ked up or not, the rest of the Galaxy's gotta deal." It tells the player that she can accept who she is, what has made her into the woman that she is today, and now she's no longer bound by the perceptions of those around her.

This arc is made even more powerful with a Paramance Shepard, as is shown by her continual shying away from the relationship. Throughout the arc, we see her reluctant to get into a relationship because of many reasons: "I'm not interested in some dumb sh*t love affair! Never goes right…", "You want out alive, you goddamn run.", "You think I did this to myself?- -So why put up with it?", "It's just gonna hurt, or you'll mess around, or I'll end up killing you or something!- And?- And… that sucks!". She's CONVINCED that any relationship with her is doomed to failure, that there's nobody in the Galaxy who has the patience to put up with her. And then look at the words Shepard uses to pursue the romance: I said I couldn't fix it. I didn't say you weren't worth staying for anyway.", "So you're crazy, so what?", "So it'll suck, but how much fun is it gonna be on the way?"

The romance arc is not about 'fixing' Jack. Its about committing to sticking with her, regardless of what trials lie ahead. The whole arc is one big promise to the character that she's worth everything you go through, that you're not about to give up on her, and then convincing her that that promise is sincere. With a non-romance Jack, she finds a place in the squad. With a romance Jack, she finds a place in life. That's why I always choose the psychotic biotic (all 15 playthroughs).

The second thought that came to me over the weekend was how much less I liked Jack's character in ME3. In ME2, Jack was pretty much my favorite video game character ever (jockeying for top spot with Legion and Mordin, mind you). In fact, as embarrassing as it is to admit it, I think in my first playthrough of ME2 I genuinely crushed on the character, so powerful was the writing there. And yet, when Shepard found her in ME3, I just felt… nothing. There was no appeal to the character for me, in spite of how much I cared for her in ME2, and I've tried to understand how that came about. The only conclusion I can come to is this: The writer for her in ME3 didn't understand Jack.

Now before you think that I'm criticizing him for what he did or anything, please understand this: I think it was a sufficient storyline, it told a good story and was frankly one of the better parts of ME3 (tying in Overlord was very well done). But Jack didn't belong there, and forcing her into the narrative was more damaging than helpful.

There's a big difference between knowing a character and understanding it. The best parallel I can make between Jack's personality and a real life example is that of someone who is depressed. Speaking as someone who has a family member that suffers from depression, I can tell you that there's a big difference between knowing about it and understanding it. Those who know about it may try to cheer a depressed person up, figuring that laughter is the best medicine and so on, and then be surprised that this doesn't work. Those who understand it will realize that most of the time there is no 'fixing' a deep seated mental and emotional issue like this. Most times you just have to commit to getting through the bad times, recognizing that the good times might always be 'just round the corner', never getting any closer.

A character like Jack, who has equally deep-seated emotional, mental and physical trauma, is in a similar position. Its not a case of cheering up, looking more normal and finding a place to belong, it's a case of bearing the burden of who you are and accepting it willingly, finding your satisfaction in life from doing so, from being able to say 'I am who I want to be, and nobody can do anything about that'. And THAT'S where Jack's character goes wrong in ME3. Her being content with the emotional and psychological place she'd got to in ME2 is nullified, removed completely. The writer spent a lot of his time 'fixing' her: giving her a more conventional appearance, adjusting her attitude to make her 'more normal, more mature', and 'giving her a place to belong'. In the end what made the character so powerful and satisfying just isn't there anymore. Jack is acting as though her past no longer exists, and the power of a relationship where Shepard will stay with her no matter the trials loses its compelling nature when there are no trials for him to stick by her side through. All the storyline in ME3 does with her is further reinforce that there was something wrong with her in ME2 and that finding your happy place can make all of that go away with a snap of the fingers.

This ties in a lot with the themes I perceived in the franchise of diversity and how we should cherish our individual uniqueness. Jack in ME2 was pretty damn unique, and her arc helps her to come to terms with that. ME3's arc tells us that she's better off being the same as everyone else, accepting a bullsh*t standard of normality.

So those are my thoughts for today. Anybody got a counterpoint they wish to raise?

Fainmaca

Modifié par fainmaca, 11 décembre 2012 - 03:52 .


#177
DarkPrinceRevan

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fainmaca wrote...

Hey guys! Just dropping by again (today's been a slow day, so I'm spending a bit of time around the interwebs for once).

Been thinking. Now, as some of you may know, Into The Unknown is coming up on its second anniversary of its initial publication. Its been a hectic couple of years, with fifty chapters (or so) published, three additional side fics written to complement it, and then of course all of the other stuff that happened outside of the ITU-niverse (**cough** Starchild **cough**).

I'm hoping to pull together a few things to celebrate two years of ITU, and wondered if I could appeal to you guys to help me out. I'm gonna do all that I can to have a bundle of content to release in time for the date of the anniversary, the 29th of December. I'd like to appeal to you, my readers, to help me with this. If you've ever felt inspired by something that was written in ITU, wanting to draw, write, or do anything else to add to the universe, now's your chance. I'm asking for anyone who wants to to create fanart, little supplementary fictions, record scenes, make videos, anything you want. ever read a scene and thought 'I'd like to draw that'? Go ahead! Ever had an idea of a cool scene to expand a character's backstory? Get scribbling! Got some recording gear and a scene you'd like to bring to life? Feel free. Heck, even if you just want to leave an extended critique of the story here for me to go over, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

I'd really like to get a collection of ITU-related materials from the community to recognise these past two years of writing. If you need any more info, just let me know.

Fainmaca Out.


sounds like fun. im splicing together some screenshots of me2 jack and my me3 shepard so i might be able to throw something together to help out but i dont have photoshop so i might have to sketch them out.

#178
DarkPrinceRevan

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http://aceaviator.de...t=10:1355454329Image IPB
well this is what ive got so far for about an hours work and hopefully i can finish by weekends end

Modifié par DarkPrinceRevan, 14 décembre 2012 - 03:10 .


#179
fainmaca

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Looking good, DPR!

As for chapter 50, I'm about halfway done. Getting in some cool lore expansion, and a few little cameos you may like. This one's going to end with a choice, so brace yourselves!

Fainmaca.

#180
Volc19

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fainmaca wrote...

This ties in a lot with the themes I perceived in the franchise of diversity and how we should cherish our individual uniqueness. Jack in ME2 was pretty damn unique, and her arc helps her to come to terms with that. ME3's arc tells us that she's better off being the same as everyone else, accepting a bullsh*t standard of normality.

So those are my thoughts for today. Anybody got a counterpoint they wish to raise?

Fainmaca


This almost seems to be a theme in ME3's arcs. Mordin suddenly conforms to seeing the Genophage as pure evil, Shepard, Miranda, and Jacob conform to the idea that Cerberus is built on a mountain of baby skulls, and even Legion ends up sacrificing the soul of his species in order to become more like everyone else, AND THEN they top it off with the Synthesis ending which involves homogenizing the Galaxy out of fear or idealism.

I cannot agree more with the idea that ME3 pushes seamless normality as the ideal, with differences being treated as blemishes.

#181
DarkPrinceRevan

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http://aceaviator.de...t=10:1355526655Image IPB

this is part 2 of my work in progress, took all of last night to do Jack's tattoos and man was that hard to try and be accurate at that scale.

Modifié par DarkPrinceRevan, 14 décembre 2012 - 11:26 .


#182
fainmaca

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Volc19 wrote...
This almost seems to be a theme in ME3's arcs. Mordin suddenly conforms to seeing the Genophage as pure evil, Shepard, Miranda, and Jacob conform to the idea that Cerberus is built on a mountain of baby skulls, and even Legion ends up sacrificing the soul of his species in order to become more like everyone else, AND THEN they top it off with the Synthesis ending which involves homogenizing the Galaxy out of fear or idealism.

I cannot agree more with the idea that ME3 pushes seamless normality as the ideal, with differences being treated as blemishes.


Absolutely, and that's probably a large part of what makes the plot difficult to accept, for me. I mean, when you think about it, the Reapers are the antithesis of individuality and diversity. They represent an irresistible force that homogenises everything into the same basic form, removing what differentiates us and blending us into a single entity. We spend two thirds of the franchise fighting against this force, opposing the Reapers as we stand up for our individuality, protecting our way of life. Then part three does nothing but promote bland similarity and giving up what makes us unique. Essentially we become the same as the Reapers. Our fight was pointless.

Modifié par fainmaca, 14 décembre 2012 - 11:57 .


#183
fainmaca

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DarkPrinceRevan wrote...

http://aceaviator.de...t=10:1355526655Image IPB

this is part 2 of my work in progress, took all of last night to do Jack's tattoos and man was that hard to try and be accurate at that scale.


I'm loving it! Great work on her inks! I love classic shaved Jack.

#184
DarkPrinceRevan

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EDIT: im actually blazed through the last 2 phases quicker then i expected so heres part 4
Image IPB
only other thing i could consider doing is shading in some of jacks tattoo's if i can be careful not to smear anything ....on second thought i think i should leave it as is. so cleaning it will be my next step.

Modifié par DarkPrinceRevan, 19 décembre 2012 - 04:33 .


#185
fainmaca

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Nice one!

#186
DarkPrinceRevan

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man Shepard's done it now, he then gone n pissed off a super reaper at first sight lol. Jack is gonna be pissed a reaper tried to fry her boyfriend....again

oh n i love the stealth jabs at the "other" mass effect universe n Jano is like the second coming of Thane. those two with Kasumi and Feron would make a wicked infiltration squad for cqc

Modifié par DarkPrinceRevan, 21 décembre 2012 - 03:20 .


#187
fainmaca

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DarkPrinceRevan wrote...

man Shepard's done it now, he then gone n pissed off a super reaper at first sight lol. Jack is gonna be pissed a reaper tried to fry her boyfriend....again


Heh... He sure has a way with the ancient mecha-cthulhus...

oh n i love the stealth jabs at the "other" mass effect universe


Whatever could you mean? Image IPB Image IPB
 

Jano is like the second coming of Thane.



Pretty sure Thane is the second coming of Thane Image IPB but I get what you mean.

those two with Kasumi and Feron would make a wicked infiltration squad for cqc


Hard to spot... but very squishy. I reckon Wrex, Grunt and Jorall would make a better infiltration squad. There may not be much left to infiltrate when they're done, but that's beside the point...

#188
DarkPrinceRevan

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Happy Birthday ME3 "Into The Unknown" your 2 years old now lol

To Celebate, as promised, i whipped up some Shepard and Jack fanart

I finally cleaned up and posted what I feel is the final version of this image
Image IPB

and this one heres my favorite which actually took the least amount of time to complete, bout 12 hours or so plus clean up. all and all i think its not to shabby if i do say so myself
Image IPB

Modifié par DarkPrinceRevan, 30 décembre 2012 - 01:48 .


#189
Gemini Freak

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fainmaca wrote...

Hey guys! Been finishing my move this weekend (all settled now), and had a chance to do some pondering, specifically about my favorite video game character: Jack. Thought I'd share my thoughts with you guys.

Now originally this was in a message to one of the people I frequently chat with on FF.net. He asked me a simple yes/no question and got the verbal equivalent of a bazooka to the face. Be warned- don't ask me questions when I'm ruminating. The answer may be a long one, and not entirely related to the question. I've adjusted it for a forum post, slightly.

First off, the main theme I got from Jack. A lot of people look at Jack, and they see a messed-up, broken, unappealing woman who needs some of Shepard's magical Wang-fu to make everything bright and sparkly and brilliant. I find this to be a very poor way to look at the character and, frankly, a disservice to such a complex creation. When i look at Jack and her story arc in ME2, I see one theme now: Acceptance. When we meet Jack, she has no peace because there is no acceptance in her life. Those around her look down on her or openly cast her out because of her origins, her appearance or her attitude. The only time she finds this acceptance, something goes wrong (Murtock dies, the outcast camp gets torched by the Turians, Manara turns out to be a greedy little so-and-so). This leads Jack to the point where she cannot even accept herself. She's convinced that she's a messed-up, psychotic (word for a female dog) whose life is always going to be the same as it has been: struggle and heartache. That's why she seems to have given up on getting attached to things, concluding they'll always end badly for her, and pushes away anybody who ever tries to get close to her.

And then in steps Shepard, and (s)he helps her to face the demons that she stores in her own head, to leave behind what Cerberus did to her and to accept who she is now. She's not the Cerberus creation, she's not Subject Zero, she's Jack. The best line that deals with this is when she says: "F**ked up or not, the rest of the Galaxy's gotta deal." It tells the player that she can accept who she is, what has made her into the woman that she is today, and now she's no longer bound by the perceptions of those around her.

This arc is made even more powerful with a Paramance Shepard, as is shown by her continual shying away from the relationship. Throughout the arc, we see her reluctant to get into a relationship because of many reasons: "I'm not interested in some dumb sh*t love affair! Never goes right…", "You want out alive, you goddamn run.", "You think I did this to myself?- -So why put up with it?", "It's just gonna hurt, or you'll mess around, or I'll end up killing you or something!- And?- And… that sucks!". She's CONVINCED that any relationship with her is doomed to failure, that there's nobody in the Galaxy who has the patience to put up with her. And then look at the words Shepard uses to pursue the romance: I said I couldn't fix it. I didn't say you weren't worth staying for anyway.", "So you're crazy, so what?", "So it'll suck, but how much fun is it gonna be on the way?"

The romance arc is not about 'fixing' Jack. Its about committing to sticking with her, regardless of what trials lie ahead. The whole arc is one big promise to the character that she's worth everything you go through, that you're not about to give up on her, and then convincing her that that promise is sincere. With a non-romance Jack, she finds a place in the squad. With a romance Jack, she finds a place in life. That's why I always choose the psychotic biotic (all 15 playthroughs).

The second thought that came to me over the weekend was how much less I liked Jack's character in ME3. In ME2, Jack was pretty much my favorite video game character ever (jockeying for top spot with Legion and Mordin, mind you). In fact, as embarrassing as it is to admit it, I think in my first playthrough of ME2 I genuinely crushed on the character, so powerful was the writing there. And yet, when Shepard found her in ME3, I just felt… nothing. There was no appeal to the character for me, in spite of how much I cared for her in ME2, and I've tried to understand how that came about. The only conclusion I can come to is this: The writer for her in ME3 didn't understand Jack.

Now before you think that I'm criticizing him for what he did or anything, please understand this: I think it was a sufficient storyline, it told a good story and was frankly one of the better parts of ME3 (tying in Overlord was very well done). But Jack didn't belong there, and forcing her into the narrative was more damaging than helpful.

There's a big difference between knowing a character and understanding it. The best parallel I can make between Jack's personality and a real life example is that of someone who is depressed. Speaking as someone who has a family member that suffers from depression, I can tell you that there's a big difference between knowing about it and understanding it. Those who know about it may try to cheer a depressed person up, figuring that laughter is the best medicine and so on, and then be surprised that this doesn't work. Those who understand it will realize that most of the time there is no 'fixing' a deep seated mental and emotional issue like this. Most times you just have to commit to getting through the bad times, recognizing that the good times might always be 'just round the corner', never getting any closer.

A character like Jack, who has equally deep-seated emotional, mental and physical trauma, is in a similar position. Its not a case of cheering up, looking more normal and finding a place to belong, it's a case of bearing the burden of who you are and accepting it willingly, finding your satisfaction in life from doing so, from being able to say 'I am who I want to be, and nobody can do anything about that'. And THAT'S where Jack's character goes wrong in ME3. Her being content with the emotional and psychological place she'd got to in ME2 is nullified, removed completely. The writer spent a lot of his time 'fixing' her: giving her a more conventional appearance, adjusting her attitude to make her 'more normal, more mature', and 'giving her a place to belong'. In the end what made the character so powerful and satisfying just isn't there anymore. Jack is acting as though her past no longer exists, and the power of a relationship where Shepard will stay with her no matter the trials loses its compelling nature when there are no trials for him to stick by her side through. All the storyline in ME3 does with her is further reinforce that there was something wrong with her in ME2 and that finding your happy place can make all of that go away with a snap of the fingers.

This ties in a lot with the themes I perceived in the franchise of diversity and how we should cherish our individual uniqueness. Jack in ME2 was pretty damn unique, and her arc helps her to come to terms with that. ME3's arc tells us that she's better off being the same as everyone else, accepting a bullsh*t standard of normality.

So those are my thoughts for today. Anybody got a counterpoint they wish to raise?

Fainmaca



I'll admit, the first time I saw Jack (Which was my first contact with the ME universe, when I got the ME2 demo in August), I didn't like her. At around February 2011, I began to like her.

#190
fainmaca

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DarkPrinceRevan wrote...

Happy Birthday ME3 "Into The Unknown" your 2 years old now lol

To Celebate, as promised, i whipped up some Shepard and Jack fanart

I finally cleaned up and posted what I feel is the final version of this image
Image IPB

and this one heres my favorite which actually took the least amount of time to complete, bout 12 hours or so plus clean up. all and all i think its not to shabby if i do say so myself
Image IPB



Nice work, DarkPrinceRevan! I love these pics.

Thanks to all of my readers for a fun (if turbulent) two years, and here's to plenty more ITU to come!

#191
fainmaca

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@ Gemini Freak: I was smitten with Jack pretty much from the start. She was so refreshingly different.

#192
Gemini Freak

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fainmaca wrote...

@ Gemini Freak: I was smitten with Jack pretty much from the start. She was so refreshingly different.


Anyway, that's how it goes, right? A person can instantly warm up to some characters, dislike others until a few days, and simply hate others.

#193
Slurms McKenzie

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fainmaca wrote...

@ Gemini Freak: I was smitten with Jack pretty much from the start. She was so refreshingly different.


Me too

#194
fainmaca

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Slurms! Long time no see!

#195
fainmaca

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Well well, two years of Into The Unknown, and here we are at Chapter 50, roughly halfway through the planned story.
Chapter 50 is now live, with a vote attached to it. Let your voice be heard! The poll will be open until Midnight next Monday (the 7th of January).

Last thing before I turn in tonight, As you may know, I've been asking around to get some stuff together for the anniversary of my publishing ITU. As part of this, both the talented DarkPrinceRevan and Ashtrails made up a couple of images for me. You can see DPR's stuff in the post above, and Ashtrails has done another two images.

#1: The Revenant.

Image IPB

The second one was done a short time ago when he was putting out an open call for requests.
#2: Jano'Yorish

Image IPB

Finally, I thought I'd put up again the cover image I made up for the fic. Pretty sure I've shown it around before, but what the heck.
Image IPB

Modifié par fainmaca, 31 décembre 2012 - 02:50 .


#196
Gemini Freak

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As usual, I voted Paragon.

#197
Slurms McKenzie

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fainmaca wrote...

Slurms! Long time no see!


S'up

#198
fainmaca

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We've dropped to the second page only a day aftera new chapter update?!?! Unacceptable!

Surprised I've not had more feedback on a mission where Liara's finally in the squad, even though it is temporary.

#199
gearseffect

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fainmaca wrote...

We've dropped to the second page only a day aftera new chapter update?!?! Unacceptable!

Surprised I've not had more feedback on a mission where Liara's finally in the squad, even though it is temporary.


I've only recently started reading ITU and just finished chapter 5.

Youjust answerd something I'd been wondering, which is if Liara becomes a squad mate in it. Looks like she don't. Seems you're using her as I'm doing in BP&A which is as a source of information the Shadow Broker. Though I have plans to send her in the squad more than one time.

BTW the prison part of ITU, Jacob and Ronald Taylor was just great. You took a character I hated and made me like him... a little, gave him a redeeming aspect. The dialogue between him and Jacob in the prison cell and Jacob's overall dialogue is spot on. Most your characters are spot on. 

Modifié par gearseffect, 02 janvier 2013 - 04:14 .


#200
fainmaca

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gearseffect wrote...
I've only recently started reading ITU and just finished chapter 5.

Youjust answerd something I'd been wondering, which is if Liara becomes a squad mate in it. Looks like she don't. Seems you're using her as I'm doing in BP&A which is as a source of information the Shadow Broker. Though I have plans to send her in the squad more than one time.

BTW the prison part of ITU, Jacob and Ronald Taylor was just great. You took a character I hated and made me like him... a little, gave him a redeeming aspect. The dialogue between him and Jacob in the prison cell and Jacob's overall dialogue is spot on. Most your characters are spot on. 


That's the role she serves at the moment, but anything could change. I have plenty planned for Liara. Image IPB

I liked the bit about Ronald. Very satisfying to write. I felt like his story needed a chance at redemption, but then again I feel that way about most characters.

Got a question for you guys. well, those who've got beyond a certain  point in the story- Revenant or Javik? Which do you prefer?

Let's get some character discussion going here, peeps! Which ones do you like, and which need working on? Are there any that make you skim over the story to avoid? are there some you could read about more than once?