343 réponses à ce sujet

[Pappi]

Of course. I never had a problem with a silent protagnist. I actullay prefer to imagine how my character sounds. And silent protagnist equals more reading, which is a good thing

[AkiKishi]

Depends on the design. A cinematic game without a voice has some glaring WTF moments, even if the majority of the game (usually conversation) runs very smoothly. This was the case in FO3/NV as well.
Because of how DA was structured it kind of brought attention to the fact that something was missing, in a way FO does not.

Smaller more abstract characters seem to work well in this regard as well, since the whole game is a representation rather than cinematic.

I think people are blaming the VA when it's more of a phillosophical difference. Biowaer don't like the idea of cutting players off from content so everything will play out more or less the same. Someone already brought up AP, which is the exact opposite and will cut you out of swathes of content based on your actions or lack of them.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 10 mai 2012 - 09:57 .

[Vaeliorin]

Of course. Given, however that I think voice-acting is largely worthless (the only time I've really liked it is the PC voices in Wizardry 8), I'd do away with it without a second thought.

[Konstantin]

Of course I would prefer protagonist without voice.The options are more and let us not forget that DAO win best rpg of 2009,and ESVS game of the year 2011!These games main character was without voice but the stories are epic...

[AkiKishi]

Begemotka wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Depends on the design. A cinematic game without a voice has some glaring WTF moments, even if the majority of the game (usually conversation) runs very smoothly. This was the case in FO3/NV as well.
Because of how DA was structured it kind of brought attention to the fact that something was missing, in a way FO does not.

Smaller more abstract characters seem to work well in this regard as well, since the whole game is a representation rather than cinematic.

True. Wonder how cinematic they are going to get - I know in some games your PC only has a voice in the "Big" cinematic sequences,whereas in conversations (with OTS view for example) the PC is silent. It could have worked in DAO,perhaps- i.e. I felt like an idiot at the Landsmeet,where I was supposed to talk down Simon Templeman,but had no voice=] Kind of jarring,that:P
But part-voiced can be a real mess and give you a feeling of "something missing" ,if not handled correctly.
Wonder if the next DA game will be designed as a fully cinematic experience...

I play a lot of JRPGs and part voiced is the norm there except for the big budget stuff by SquareEnix etc. It barely even registers because I've heard the voice I can "fill in" during the silent bits. Also the silent bits are generally day to day stuff where its not really important.

[AkiKishi]

aekforever wrote...

Of course I would prefer protagonist without voice.The options are more and let us not forget that DAO win best rpg of 2009,and ESVS game of the year 2011!These games main character was without voice but the stories are epic...

ES games are not particularly cinematic. What you need to is take something like the Witcher2 or Deus Ex and then hit mute when the Geralt or Adam speaks.

[FASherman]

Look no further than Skyrim to see your answer.

[AkiKishi]

Begemotka wrote...
that was fun,thanks for the link:D
It was a bit like the different "tone" VAs for the Warden`s battlecries and such  for me
Part-voiced could work,but I am guessing DA is leaning towards the full cinematic experience (conversations a la ME3)...I would not mind "going silent" with an OTS conversation view for "smaller" sequences myself.
As analysed to death on BSN,most of the problems with the voiced Hawke / Shepard  arose because of  "the paraphrasing gone awry" and the VA delivery not in line with the tone the player (not the devs) intended.And with DA2,for example,there seems to have been a confusion as to what constitutes a "sarcastic" or "diplomatic" tone.
Aggressive is pretty much clear and easier to nail,but the former two are harder nuts to crack.

As you pointed out in another thread,things are easier in the case of a preset protag like Adam Jensen,since you pretty much cannot go out of character - you are just walking in Adam`s shoes.

Day to day conversation is normally the area where you want a lot of choice, as such it works well unvoiced. Those big dramatic moments, or meeting an important NPC in a pre scripted manner, there a voice really helps to sell the scene.

The problem is trying to sell a pre-gen character as something created by the player when it clearly is not. In DA2, the two things the player could determine, first name and appearence are never used by the game anyway.
To me it's like watching a magic trick, if you know how the trick is done, then it does not work on you. Games that are upfront like Deus Ex and Witcher are better because they don't rely on any sort of trick for the experience to work.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 10 mai 2012 - 11:08 .

[Nerdage]

We're talking about all voice acting now, right? Not just the PC?

Not unless they changed the camera to top-down only, having a detailed 3D model in front of me and not actually seeing it talk is just weird. But then we're talking about a different game entirely, I wouldn't necessarily want that for DA3.

[eroeru]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Absolutely. The narrative that matters is the arc of character development, and the voice robs us of most of that.

Maybe BioWare can find a way to give us that control back while still keeping the voice, but I'm not optimistic.

Their goal should be to hand us a blank slate that we can craft as we see fit.  Let's see how they do.

This! 

[Aldandil]

Yes!

[Welsh Inferno]

Lethys1 wrote...

Would you relinquish some of your Voice Acting for more control and options over the plot of the game?

 
Yes.

Lethys1 wrote...
Would you take a Silent Protagonist to return to the level of choice seen in DA:O?

 
Yes.

Lethys1 wrote...
Would you take mostly text in exchange for the level of control of Fallout 1 and 2 on plot?

 
Nah.

Although I would love the PC being silent I much prefer companions & NPC's to have a voice. With just text, characters woudln't feel as unique or memorable to me. For example I cannot imagine characters like Loghain or Morrigan without a voice. Their VA's did a great job to make them feel real & grand in their own way. IMO they wouldn't have anywhere near the effect they had if everything was simply text.

Characters are what BioWare does best. 

Modifié par Welsh Inferno, 10 mai 2012 - 01:03 .

[jbrand2002uk]

I notice the irony that "pro silent NPC" groups point to E.S Skyrim which quell suprise is another game with a silent NPC where that silence during interactions with for example the Jarl of Whiterun constantly breaks immersion by your PC's silence and lack of facial expression unless you do these sections in 1st person to avoid this.

Also like DAO after numerous patches the main questlines are still full of numerous bugs and like DAO a patch to fix existing bugs often creates new ones and also requires numerous mods in order to make it remotley playable.

So to answer the OP's question its a flat no i wouldnt since as there was no "real" control in DAO anyway thus rendering the whole question mute plus some have raised the rather obvious point that some are clearly dancing around: This is 2012 not 1999 or 1980! If I'm to hand over 60 of my hard earned notes for a game I want Evolution not blatant regression just to please those too stuck in their ways.

[Malsumis]

Absolutely.

Plot control and world interaction/reaction is so much more important than voiced pc & cinematic design.

[FASherman]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

I notice the irony that "pro silent NPC" groups point to E.S Skyrim which quell suprise is another game with a silent NPC where that silence during interactions with for example the Jarl of Whiterun constantly breaks immersion by your PC's silence and lack of facial expression unless you do these sections in 1st person to avoid this.

Also like DAO after numerous patches the main questlines are still full of numerous bugs and like DAO a patch to fix existing bugs often creates new ones and also requires numerous mods in order to make it remotley playable.

So to answer the OP's question its a flat no i wouldnt since as there was no "real" control in DAO anyway thus rendering the whole question mute plus some have raised the rather obvious point that some are clearly dancing around: This is 2012 not 1999 or 1980! If I'm to hand over 60 of my hard earned notes for a game I want Evolution not blatant regression just to please those too stuck in their ways.

Thats not really a fair comparison, is it? Skyrim was no more or less buggy (outside of the PS3 graphics issues) than DA2 was. But give the scale of the game world, the number of hours of game play and the larger code base, the bugs per hour, bugs per quest or bugs per lines of code ratio was far less for Skyrim.

And, in many cases, it was the non-linear gaming that cause some of the bugs, which were fixed in fairly short order. More importantly, the upcoming $10 DLC will provide as many hours of additional game play as DA2 in and of itself.

So yes, give up the main character voicing and concentrate the savings into additional developers and build a better product.

[seraphymon]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

I notice the irony that "pro silent NPC" groups point to E.S Skyrim which quell suprise is another game with a silent NPC where that silence during interactions with for example the Jarl of Whiterun constantly breaks immersion by your PC's silence and lack of facial expression unless you do these sections in 1st person to avoid this.

Also like DAO after numerous patches the main questlines are still full of numerous bugs and like DAO a patch to fix existing bugs often creates new ones and also requires numerous mods in order to make it remotley playable.

So to answer the OP's question its a flat no i wouldnt since as there was no "real" control in DAO anyway thus rendering the whole question mute plus some have raised the rather obvious point that some are clearly dancing around: This is 2012 not 1999 or 1980! If I'm to hand over 60 of my hard earned notes for a game I want Evolution not blatant regression just to please those too stuck in their ways.

not sure what bugs have to do with this but i found DA2 to be at least 10 times more buggier than DAO ever was,

but the fact that it is is 2012 i feel is just a ridiculous statement. because what it comes down ot is what is better. New does not always  mean better or more rememberable. It has nothing to do with set in their ways. Its the same with movies and the way it is filmed. so you can imagine how i feel when im wanting to play a game, that many think they have to present us with a movie, with all their heavy cinematics.

[jbrand2002uk]

Well most RPG's I play on PC and played DA2 at version 1.0 and had no bugs or CTD's(Crash to Desktop) at all DAO however from version 1.0 to current 1.5 is still bug ridden and CTD prone Skyrim however was fine up until just after the Defeating of Alduin in Sovengarde now after the current patch Alduin's bane is stuck in a loop where Gormlaith isnt killed by Alduin so you have to use console commands to bypass that stage this however reveals that the quest The Fallen is bug ridden in that the dragon Odhaaving never lands in Dragons reach instead he just flys towards the mountain vanishes and respawns above dragon's reach and repeating ad nausem meaning that using the console to bypass that to get to skuldaffin means that when you defeat Alduin in Sovengarde Odhaaving cant be called on later.

[jbrand2002uk]

I have nothing against "old style" games what im against is paying new game prices for an old rehashed formula thats been used for over 20yrs its not unreasonable to demand new ideas and innovation for £60 instead of lazy design because designer's creativity is clipped for fear of offending the old guard of fans

[wsandista]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

I notice the irony that "pro silent NPC" groups point to E.S Skyrim which quell suprise is another game with a silent NPC where that silence during interactions with for example the Jarl of Whiterun constantly breaks immersion by your PC's silence and lack of facial expression unless you do these sections in 1st person to avoid this.

I'm in that group, and I don't use Skyrim as an example of how to do a silent PC. Comparing Skyrim to DA is comparing apples to oranges, DA is story driven and relies heavily on chracter interaction, Skyrim is a sandbox that appeals to players wanting non-linear exploration with little empasis on plot.

Also like DAO after numerous patches the main questlines are still full of numerous bugs and like DAO a patch to fix existing bugs often creates new ones and also requires numerous mods in order to make it remotley playable.

The bug to content ratio is much smaller in in DAO than DA2, if you want to rage about bugs you should acknowledge DA2's. Skyrim has a lower bug to cotent ratio than either DA.

So to answer the OP's question its a flat no i wouldnt since as there was no "real" control in DAO anyway thus rendering the whole question mute plus some have raised the rather obvious point that some are clearly dancing around: This is 2012 not 1999 or 1980! If I'm to hand over 60 of my hard earned notes for a game I want Evolution not blatant regression just to please those too stuck in their ways.

So why is it bad that those who want a silent PC want they game they prefer?

jbrand2002uk wrote...

I have nothing against "old style" games what im against is paying new game prices for an old rehashed formula thats been used for over 20yrs its not unreasonable to demand new ideas and innovation for £60 instead of lazy design because designer's creativity is clipped for fear of offending the old guard of fans

DA was marketed as an old school RPG, that is why Bioware claimed DA as the "spiritual successor" to Baldur's Gate.

If it isn't broke, don't fix it. Innovation is only great when it doesn't create a slew of new problems and ****** off the old base. DA2 had a much lazier design (reused environments anyone?)than DAO, IMO.

Modifié par wsandista, 10 mai 2012 - 02:27 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Begemotka wrote...

I somewhat disagree with Sylvius (see bolded part),because even though we had a silent protag in DAO, I could argue that the way the Warden`s responses were worded went contrary to my preferred choice of words / tone in any given situation.

I flatly deny that the Warden's responses had tone at all.

There were instances where none of the wording resonated with the personality I imagined for my Warden.

That's a problem that could be remedied by using a keyword dialogue system, but that's not my preference.

First, I expect we have a difference of opinion about how language works.  I generally use questions as a means to avoid dialogue options I don't like, because questions (I insist) contain no information, so they cannot break my character.

Second, my experience with keyword based dialogue systems causes me to view all dialogue options as abstractions of what will actually be said.  Detailed abstractions, in BioWare's case, but abstractions nonetheless.  As such, there's no need to be worried about precise wording as long as the literal meaning is not character-breaking.

The voice, though, makes it far more difficult to view the line as an abstraction as the cinematics now present it explicitly as an in-game event.  And the paraphrase BioWare jkeeps using prevents us from knowing that literal meaning, which is the most important aspect of any dialogue option. 

It is true that we would end up with fewer choices because of the zot-hog nature of having a VA voice a myriad of conversation options - but this is just to point out having a voiced protagonist is not necessarily the only thing that could break RP immersion.Then of course there is the thing with not everyone agreeing with the choice of PC VA,but that could be handled with an added  "turn off voice and turn on subtitles" option.

As long as we're stuck with the paraphrases, I'd like to turn off the voice AND the subtitles, so that the paraphrase can then stand in as the full dialogue option.

Unfortunately, since you can't disable the voice or the subtitles for the PC alone, turning them off would mean that you would never know what any of the NPCs are saying, and that's not much of a game.

[MrsMime]

No. Like others have said before, it would just feel like regressing.

I was against the idea of a voiced protagonist - initially, I was very disappointed to discover that DA2 had gone in that direction. It seemed like a waste of resources. But, I was pleasantly surprised! I LOVED having a voiced protagonist, it just felt right..there were so many times in DA:O that people spoke on behalf of my warden when I really thought she should be speaking for herself. And the voicelessness of dialogue made conversations often feel one-sided.

That being said, I'd sacrifice some of the voice acting for more story arc, of course. Maybe keep it so that the protagonist still participates in party banter, but only has real lines during major plot developments, and such.

But I definitely wouldn't like to see a silent character again.