33 réponses à ce sujet

[robotnist]

 DA2 is a fun game, period. i get that its not origins, or not even as good as origins.

origins was incredible to me, it was the end all be all of gaming for me.

but DA2 was fun. and some of the biggest complaints about it werent big deals at all to me. 

repeating caves and areas? yeah, i played phantasy star online for over 1000+ hours, and it had 1 tiny town and 4 adventure area assets...???!!!! 

the way DAO and DA2 plays, to me, sometimes feels a tad like PSO, the way the treasure is randomized with a ranking system, where the combat system was a little more involved/important than exploring (for those 3 games, not in general). 

the characters had so much personality in DA2, i hear no one appreciating that... i remember running into flemeth for the 1st time in the demo and getting goosebumps... i remember feeling a true kinship with Verric, he made me feel like we were great friends...

and of course i remember being heart broken by Aveline... THAT GINGER CoUNTry music loving woman....

i am super bummed that we wont be seeing any more content for DA2 while we wait for DA3... i would have loved to get the "exalted march" x-pack they were working on while waiting for 3.  

i wonder if theres any chance we might see some of the assets released as a smaller DLC pack, hell i would even pay for a patch with a smidge of content from said X-pack.

anyways, DA2 wasn't as good as DAO, but how can you ever top that? its an instant classic, i have always kept it installed in my PC since its launch.

cheers bioware, i know youre getting nothing but flak right now, but i always enjoy your games, and look forward to more DA!!!!

[Kahninovre]

I remember reading a post about dlc, they said there would be no more period.
Origins was good but wasn't amazing the glitches random freezing and so on ruined a bit.

[ChaosAgentLoki]

It's nice to see a positive view on DA2. While it is not the best game ever made, the fact that it was released with the expectations of living up to DA:O, while at the same time being radically different did harm it more than anything else. It is a ton of fun though. Also, I like the comparison to PSO, an amazing game that I've only ever been able to play small amounts of and a game that there needs to be more like it.

[Jitter]

It's hard to appreciate anything that starts with justification of it's failings.
Most posts that pro DA2 do just that.

If i order a steak , and it is served cold , covered in lint , and burnt on one side.
I don't care if the waiter , tells me.

The Chef isn't feeling well today. His cat died , and he is pretty broken up about it.
He was crying so hard he mistimed the meal. Couldn't see through the tears streaming down his face. He dropped it on the floor .

He did his best to fix it you see and tried to sanitize it with a blow torch . But the lint and hair stuck to the steak reminded him of his poor lost fluffy .

He had to sit down and collect himself for 10 minutes , before he could return to work , and finish cooking.

The mean manager 'E'van 'A'nderson was yelling at him the whole time to hurry up or he would replace him . So we just rushed it to your table ...

That will be $60 dollars sir.

Would you like "D"essert it's "L"emmon pie, perhaps a "C"offee after your meal .
full price of course.

Are you going to eat it and like it?

The sin , was calling it a steak dinner.
But i still would not eat it , if it was presented as Steakumm's and fries. 

Modifié par Jitter, 11 mai 2012 - 02:36 .

[wsandista]

Jitter wrote...

It's hard to appreciate anything that starts with justification of it's failings.
Most posts that pro DA2 do just that.

If i order a steak , and it is served cold , covered in lint , and burnt on one side.
I don't care if the waiter , tells me.

The Chef isn't feeling well today. His cat died , and he is pretty broken up about it.
He was crying so hard he mistimed the meal. Couldn't see through the tears streaming down his face. He dropped it on the floor .

He did his best to fix it you see and tried to sanitize it with a blow torch . But the lint and hair stuck to the steak reminded him of his poor lost fluffy .

He had to sit down and collect himself for 10 minutes , before he could return to work , and finish cooking.

The mean manager 'E'van 'A'nderson was yelling at him the whole time to hurry up or he would replace him . So we just rushed it to your table ...

That will be $60 dollars sir.

Would you like "D"essert it's "L"emmon pie, perhaps a "C"offee after your meal .
full price of course.

Are you going to eat it and like it?

The sin , was calling it a steak dinner.
But i still would not eat it , if it was presented as Steakumm's and fries. 

I agree, but that isn't the analogy I would've used.

It is more like if I ordered a steak, get served a mcdonald's, then the restaurant acts offended when I insist that it isn't what I paid for. Then they start telling me I'm wrong for wanting a steak and that I should just shut up and enjoy the $3 burger I payed a $20 price for.

[Fisto The Sexbot]

 No, it is not. The significance of the '2' lies beyond the title, or what could be fitted into the marketing category. The marketing is a symptom, and so is the '2'. 

The initiative was to transition Dragon Age to the game with the '2' in the title that we see now; whether it would've been called something else is irrelevant if Dragon Age 2 was extremely successful: it would have led to 3's and 4's of the same kind.  No matter what it were called, the ambition, the initiative, was the decline of RPG elements and the resulting action-oriented titles.

The fact that it was so openly approached as a sequel, only makes it worse. 

[LeBurns]

The number 2 has always been an issue with me concerning DA2. Honestly DA2 was different enough to be it's own game. Different enough that many that loved DA:O hated DA2, and vice-versa. They could have called it something totally different. At least then there would have been hope that someone was working on a DA:O2, but of course that will never happen.

[wsandista]

Filament wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Jitter wrote...

It's hard to appreciate anything that starts with justification of it's failings.
Most posts that pro DA2 do just that.

If i order a steak , and it is served cold , covered in lint , and burnt on one side.
...

I agree, but that isn't the analogy I would've used.

It is more like if I ordered a steak, get served a mcdonald's, then the restaurant acts offended when I insist that it isn't what I paid for. Then they start telling me I'm wrong for wanting a steak and that I should just shut up and enjoy the $3 burger I payed a $20 price for.

The one time someone makes a critical analogy of DA2 that isn't totally absurd, and you had to go and ruin it with more "I asked for ice cream and I got fish instead!" nonsense.

Well, I paid for a product expecting certain criteria, then was given something else that didn't fit the critera. The "I asked for ice cream and was given fish instead!" isn't nonsense, because that is what essentially happened.

[Sutekh]

wsandista wrote...

Well, I paid for a product expecting certain criteria, then was given something else that didn't fit the critera. The "I asked for ice cream and was given fish instead!" isn't nonsense, because that is what essentially happened.

That would have made sense if you were expecting an RPG and were given an adventure game or a wargame instead. Something with absolutely no common points with the original except they are both games, much like fish has no common points with ice cream except they are both food.

The steak analogy is a good one because we're still talking about steak, except one could be well-done and the other bloody (which is a matter of taste), and one is served warm and the other cold, which are objective flaws.

[jcmuki]

Sutekh wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Well, I paid for a product expecting certain criteria, then was given something else that didn't fit the critera. The "I asked for ice cream and was given fish instead!" isn't nonsense, because that is what essentially happened.

That would have made sense if you were expecting an RPG and were given an adventure game or a wargame instead. Something with absolutely no common points with the original except they are both games, much like fish has no common points with ice cream except they are both food.

The steak analogy is a good one because we're still talking about steak, except one could be well-done and the other bloody (which is a matter of taste), and one is served warm and the other cold, which are objective flaws.

RPG games are hard to define but I think Yatzhee puts it best, there are RPG games and there are games with RPG elements in it. In his review of Deus EX HR, he coompare HR to the orignal Deus Ex by saying Deus Ex is an Action-RPG while HR is an Action Game with RPG element in it. I think it's the same way for DAO and DA2. DAO is more of a traditional RPG while DA2 feels like an Action game with some RPG elements. Alot of people who played DAO were probably expecting DA2 to be more in line of a traditional RPG not an Action game with RPG elements. If DA2 had a different name or was it's own series I think it could have been a great game but by trying to cater to DAO traditional RPG fans and new fan they seem to disappoint both.<_<

[bEVEsthda]

There wouldn't have been the disappointment.
There would have been ignorance instead of anger about what EA/Bioware intended to do with DA.

- But:
DA2 sold because of that "2".
Outside of that it's an unwanted game, for a rather small and young market, that doesn't have much money to spend.

I think it would still have been a failure.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 11 mai 2012 - 07:51 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

etherhonky wrote...

DA2 is a fun game, period.

What is the point of this sentence?  More specifically, what constitutes "a fun game"?

Because I found DA2 decidedly unfun.  It was a chore to play, and I ultimately did not finish it.  I cannot imagine a set of expectations I could have had that would have made DA2 fun for me.

[jesuno]

wsandista wrote...

I agree, but that isn't the analogy I would've used.

It is more like if I ordered a steak, get served a mcdonald's, then the restaurant acts offended when I insist that it isn't what I paid for. Then they start telling me I'm wrong for wanting a steak and that I should just shut up and enjoy the $3 burger I payed a $20 price for.

Well done sir.

[bEVEsthda]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

etherhonky wrote...

DA2 is a fun game, period.

What is the point of this sentence?  More specifically, what constitutes "a fun game"?

Because I found DA2 decidedly unfun.  It was a chore to play, and I ultimately did not finish it.  I cannot imagine a set of expectations I could have had that would have made DA2 fun for me.

Strange, games which some people need to describe as "fun", or which developers emphasize have been developed to be "fun", remarkably often aren't. At all.

[Sutekh]

jcmuki wrote...

RPG games are hard to define but I think Yatzhee puts it best, there are RPG games and there are games with RPG elements in it. In his review of Deus EX HR, he coompare HR to the orignal Deus Ex by saying Deus Ex is an Action-RPG while HR is an Action Game with RPG element in it. I think it's the same way for DAO and DA2. DAO is more of a traditional RPG while DA2 feels like an Action game with some RPG elements. Alot of people who played DAO were probably expecting DA2 to be more in line of a traditional RPG not an Action game with RPG elements. If DA2 had a different name or was it's own series I think it could have been a great game but by trying to cater to DAO traditional RPG fans and new fan they seem to disappoint both.<_<

Well, to me DA2 is definitely an RPG, for the simple reason that I did a lot of roleplaying with it. I stick to the etymological definition. Is it a game? Yes. Is it a game that allows roleplaying (as in playing a role)? Yes. Is roleplaying the principal activity it offered me? Yes. Therefore, it's a roleplaying game.

Now, if we go deeper into subgenres and nuances, it's quite different. DA2 is definitely actiony and definitely shallow on many aspects. It may be considered by some as a bad RPG, which I won't discuss because opinions and all that jazz, but it's still a member of the RPG family. Still a steak.

As for expectations? It was clear to me that DA2 would be very different from DAO. Human only, semi preset protag, and the demo didn't try to fool anyone. It was slice and dice, flashy and very, very fast. I was a bit sad but bought it anyway because I'm in love with the setting. I wasn't expecting DAO:2. I would have loved it, but I knew that wasn't what I was getting, so no disappointment there.

Now I'm not sure DA2 delivered on the actual promises that were made (rise to power, ten years of ascension etc...), mainly because of the downward spiral that was most of Act III, but it's another story and is not related to DAO in any way.

Modifié par Sutekh, 11 mai 2012 - 08:47 .

[wsandista]

Filament wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Well, I paid for a product expecting certain criteria, then was given something else that didn't fit the critera. The "I asked for ice cream and was given fish instead!" isn't nonsense, because that is what essentially happened.

It isn't. If you did any research at all you knew what you were getting. It's like not reading the desciption of the steak on the menu and then being surprised and angry when it was prepared according to its description. And its description isn't "this is actually a fish," it's of a steak you just don't happen to like.

If you want to say that the steak wasn't prepared well according to its own description, I can see that, but if you're going to claim you were just blindsided completely by what you got, I can only blame you.

I was expecting a steak similar to the steak it is being marketed as the successor to, from a restaurant known for making a certain type of steak. I showed up to the restaurant the night that they started serving this new steak because I had pre-ordered the steak, I didn't taste the sample because I trusted the restaurant from their pristine record of cooking excellent steaks. Then I get served a piece of meat that has been obviously rushed out of the kitchen, is a different cut of meat with seasonings that taste strange to me, one that departs heavily from the steak that I had come to love through years of eating at the restaurant.

That is what playing DA2 was like.

bEVEstda wrote...

Strange, games which some people need to describe as "fun", or which developers emphasize have been developed to be "fun", remarkably often aren't. At all.

Generally, if someone has to constantly remind you something is fun, it almost always isn't.

[Realmzmaster]

I had fun with DA2. I have my definition of fun and it may not be the same as others. Others have their definition of fun. The two definitions may or may not overlap. The definitions may be completely different.

As far as the food analogy, I always read the menu. I examine the descriptions and know what I am ordering. I followed DA2's development and knew what it would be like. I sampled the demo as a taste test. It was not the same as the previous steak but it was still good steak in my opinion. I enjoyed the steak and left the table full. YMMV.

[Rxdiaz]

I thought DA2 was dreadful.
I forced myself to play it, I kept saying it has to get better. It didn't. I couldn't even force myself to finish it.

The ONLY enjoyment I got out of it was how I couldn't stop laughing at first when I saw the enemies parachuting in from nowhere.

Also that one cave over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over....

[FieryDove]

Filament wrote...

It isn't. If you did any research at all you knew what you were getting.

I would disagree with this.

From the DA website and all the marketing here:

Key Features:
Embark upon an all-new adventure that takes place across an entire decade and shapes itself around every decision you make.
(No)

Determine your rise to power from a destitute refugee to the revered champion of the land.
(No)

Think like a general and fight like a Spartan with dynamic new combat mechanics that put you right in the heart of battle whether you are a mage, rogue, or warrior.
(The general part perhaps since we could still control a party in battles but when I think of a general I think commanding armies not a few people. Also I don't think Spartans fought like that. So I vote No.)

Go deeper into the world of Dragon Age with an entirely new cinematic experience that grabs hold of you from the beginning and never lets go.
(For some yes, for some it kicked them to the curb faster.)

Discover a whole realm rendered in stunning detail with updated graphics and a new visual style
(Stunning is spot on. For some a good stunning, for some...very bad.)

So it looks like 3 no's and possibly 2 yes's if one agreed with what was stated in the latter parts. Or possibly all 5 are No's if one didn't agree with any of the stated *features* of DA2.

Why is everyone still arguing with everyone else's opinion on the game after so long is what I wonder? I blame boredom.

Modifié par FieryDove, 12 mai 2012 - 04:21 .

[Maria Caliban]

Dragon Age II is a fun game and is fine as a successor to Dragon Age: Origins.

It has several 'sins' but they're forgivable.

[seraphymon]

Dragon age 2, is an alright game in itself, but just not up to snuff as a sequel to DA2 or a bioware game in general. Its repeated enivoroments is just not forgivable im sry, as well as a couple other things.