balance5050 wrote...
Really? Read the comics and you'll see that he sets up the IT pretty concisely.
balance5050 wrote...
Tom Lehrer wrote...
7 falls very short of the 15 you claimed before.
He may also be a talented writer of comics he seems average with viedo games. This is why he could not have hoped to come up with IT and why ME has such a poor ending.
Really? Read the comics and you'll see that he sets up the IT pretty concisely.
or a combo of both ethier way alcahol was envolvedKingZayd wrote...
darthoptimus003 wrote...
of course it didnt happen remember it was a drunken dream brought on by the concumption of larg quantites of alcahol and an asari who wants to sleep with shep but just dosent want to admit itKingZayd wrote...
darthoptimus003 wrote...
are you saying that TIM souldnt been able to do anything to anderson and shep cause the way i see it he souldnt have been able tobalance5050 wrote...
darthoptimus003 wrote...
thats my point sorry my iphone is not the best for thisbalance5050 wrote...
darthoptimus003 wrote...
and sheps body is riddle with implants so if the vi didnt detect anything how is shep indocbalance5050 wrote...
Opsrbest wrote...
If Shepard was in any way indoctrinated, people at any given point in time the VI on the Asari home world Vendetta would have noticed it.
It is beyond breaking of the plot and the etablished lore for Shepard to be considered indoctrinated, being indoctrinated or otherwise anything to do with indoctrination. It BREAKS the narrative of Shepard. It BREAKS the lore of indoctrination.
The only allowable means of indoctrination, which would kill Shepard since the codex states it's severity to the umptenth degree is rapid indoctrination.
And if that's the case Shepard is officially a Mary Sue.
And TIM uses a modified Reaper control signal for Husks with his implants. The only real time Shepard is exposed to high amounts of Reaper tech that can affect him is through TIM.
He wasn't indoctriated when he talked to the Thessia VI. It was in the early , psychological, undetectable stages.
plus it only detects reaper tech, and there were indoctrinated sleeper agents that slipped by it's detection before, accoding to itself AND Javik.
Not Reaper implants.
Like Saren, TIM and Kai Leng
Right, so that's why the VI didn't detect him.
If Shepard and Anderson weren't already indoctrinated, then no he shouldn't have been able to do something like that so quickly, without serious brain damage. Also, their minds should have been affected too rather than just their bodies. The fact that the details are just a little bit off added to the surreal nature of the scenes suggests it didn't really happen.
Or a dream that started shortly after he was blasted near to death by Harbinger.
Tom Lehrer wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
Really? Read the comics and you'll see that he sets up the IT pretty concisely.
I know the setting for the retake Omega DLC was set up in the comics just like LotSB. The comics seem more like hooks for DLC then vital parts of Shepards story.
In fact Shepard is not even in the comics so how could it set anything up for IT?
Slayer299 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
Slayer299 wrote...
No. IT *is* idiotic and to have that for Shepard's ending isn't brilliant writing on BW's part, its cheap and lazy.
On the contrary it's cheap and lazy not to tackle the issue of Shepard and indoctrination. There is no reason the reapers wouldn't try. And there is no reason to believe Shepard is somehow immune.
Immune? No. But to add this into a game that is "a great place for new players to enter the series" is stupid. So, how are new players going to come to this conclusion/understand anything about indoctrication? It comes out of left field as far as they are concerned and Sanctuary doesn't tell them much to understand it either.
Now, for the dreams to show how badly the last 3 years have taken a mental toll on Shepard makes more sense.
deathlord413 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
deathlord413 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
deathlord413 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
Iconoclaste wrote...
This whole "TIM has indoc pawa" is your invention, that's no lore, sorry.dreman9999 wrote...
You know my proof is the plot right and lore, right? Thing stated and shown that support findings, not base less assumtions with nothing to point to it.
I woud just show vid from the game and notes from the lore like I was doing before....Athing you can't do about TIM's secret powers.
Actually it is lore. Watch the Cerberus base videos provided below. About 15 mins in.
All I see is a video in which TIM says that he is able to control Reaper forces. Things that are *under Reaper influence. That supports the IT more than anything else.
"Some are already hearing voices" "Once our work at Sanctuary pays off, the only voice they'll be hearing is ours"
A.)People under the influence of Cerberus modified Reaper tech. B.)The objective of Sanctuary is to override the Reaper control signal in order to gain control of thier forces and ultimately the Reapers themselves.
I'm using the quotes from the video. He used indoctrination and implantation on Cerberus troops.
Which he got from studying the Reapers. He is using thier methods on his own troops. I don't see how you're missing the connection here. If you create a drug by using someone elses research as a basis, then your drug is going to be very similar. Indoctrination is far more complex than any pharmacutical endevor and would allow very little digression without cause major damage to the test subjects.
darthoptimus003 wrote...
or a combo of both ethier way alcahol was envolved
and on that note
to all my fellow MASS EFFECT fans
yall have a good nite
KingZayd wrote...
deathlord413 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
deathlord413 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
deathlord413 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
Iconoclaste wrote...
This whole "TIM has indoc pawa" is your invention, that's no lore, sorry.dreman9999 wrote...
You know my proof is the plot right and lore, right? Thing stated and shown that support findings, not base less assumtions with nothing to point to it.
I woud just show vid from the game and notes from the lore like I was doing before....Athing you can't do about TIM's secret powers.
Actually it is lore. Watch the Cerberus base videos provided below. About 15 mins in.
All I see is a video in which TIM says that he is able to control Reaper forces. Things that are *under Reaper influence. That supports the IT more than anything else.
"Some are already hearing voices" "Once our work at Sanctuary pays off, the only voice they'll be hearing is ours"
A.)People under the influence of Cerberus modified Reaper tech. B.)The objective of Sanctuary is to override the Reaper control signal in order to gain control of thier forces and ultimately the Reapers themselves.
I'm using the quotes from the video. He used indoctrination and implantation on Cerberus troops.
Which he got from studying the Reapers. He is using thier methods on his own troops. I don't see how you're missing the connection here. If you create a drug by using someone elses research as a basis, then your drug is going to be very similar. Indoctrination is far more complex than any pharmacutical endevor and would allow very little digression without cause major damage to the test subjects.
I don't see where we're disagreeing here? I know he got it from stuying the Reapers. And I know he used it on his troops. (Implantation for the physical benefits, Indoctrination so that they stay loyal (they start off loyal, but the reaper voices are problematic. The work at Sanctuary if we listen to the videos is linked to overriding the reaper voices which is why he can hijack control of reaper forces). He has indoctrination tech. Where are we disagreeing?
deathlord413 wrote...
Tom Lehrer wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
Really? Read the comics and you'll see that he sets up the IT pretty concisely.
I know the setting for the retake Omega DLC was set up in the comics just like LotSB. The comics seem more like hooks for DLC then vital parts of Shepards story.
In fact Shepard is not even in the comics so how could it set anything up for IT?
Read the Illusive Man's comic, I think it's called Retribution, it takes place before Saren had even met Sovergin and explains why TIM is the way he is.
Slayer299 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
Slayer299 wrote...
No. IT *is* idiotic and to have that for Shepard's ending isn't brilliant writing on BW's part, its cheap and lazy.
On the contrary it's cheap and lazy not to tackle the issue of Shepard and indoctrination. There is no reason the reapers wouldn't try. And there is no reason to believe Shepard is somehow immune.
Immune? No. But to add this into a game that is "a great place for new players to enter the series" is stupid. So, how are new players going to come to this conclusion/understand anything about indoctrication? It comes out of left field as far as they are concerned and Sanctuary doesn't tell them much to understand it either.
Now, for the dreams to show how badly the last 3 years have taken a mental toll on Shepard makes more sense.
deathlord413 wrote...
Tom Lehrer wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
Really? Read the comics and you'll see that he sets up the IT pretty concisely.
I know the setting for the retake Omega DLC was set up in the comics just like LotSB. The comics seem more like hooks for DLC then vital parts of Shepards story.
In fact Shepard is not even in the comics so how could it set anything up for IT?
Read the Illusive Man's comic, I think it's called Retribution, it takes place before Saren had even met Sovergin and explains why TIM is the way he is.
deathlord413 wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
Tom Lehrer wrote...
7 falls very short of the 15 you claimed before.
He may also be a talented writer of comics he seems average with viedo games. This is why he could not have hoped to come up with IT and why ME has such a poor ending.
Really? Read the comics and you'll see that he sets up the IT pretty concisely.
Finally someone else who looks at outside sources. My friend beat ME3 before me and had to do a whole bunch of research to understand it. He mentions the IT to me and it isntantly clicks. I really think BW expected thier fan base to be a hell of a lot smarter than they are acting.
balance5050 wrote...
Tom Lehrer wrote...
7 falls very short of the 15 you claimed before.
He may also be a talented writer of comics he seems average with viedo games. This is why he could not have hoped to come up with IT and why ME has such a poor ending.
My fault, it was Casey Hudson that has been there for 15 years
Guest_Opsrbest_*
The codex says -through means of electromagnetic fields, infra-ultrasonic sounds and other subliminal messages- thats how a subject becomes indoctrinated. Shepard can get scanned by Dr. Chakwas or Michel in the Normandys med bay where they check to see how the implants are doing. If Shepard was indoctrinated it would show. There would be a physical side effect. Vendetta infers that there is a means to determine if an indoctrinated presence is nearby. There is only one way to do that.KingZayd wrote...
Opsrbest wrote...
If Shepard was in any way indoctrinated, people at any given point in time the VI on the Asari home world Vendetta would have noticed it.
It is beyond breaking of the plot and the etablished lore for Shepard to be considered indoctrinated, being indoctrinated or otherwise anything to do with indoctrination. It BREAKS the narrative of Shepard. It BREAKS the lore of indoctrination.
The only allowable means of indoctrination, which would kill Shepard since the codex states it's severity to the umptenth degree is rapid indoctrination.
And if that's the case Shepard is officially a Mary Sue.
And TIM uses a modified Reaper control signal for Husks with his implants. The only real time Shepard is exposed to high amounts of Reaper tech that can affect him is through TIM.
Because Vendetta's indoctrination sensors are perfect? I wonder why the crucible project failed due to indoctrinated protheans then ?
And there is another time: Object Rho.
Modifié par Opsrbest, 12 mai 2012 - 05:47 .
Tom Lehrer wrote...
deathlord413 wrote...
Tom Lehrer wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
Really? Read the comics and you'll see that he sets up the IT pretty concisely.
I know the setting for the retake Omega DLC was set up in the comics just like LotSB. The comics seem more like hooks for DLC then vital parts of Shepards story.
In fact Shepard is not even in the comics so how could it set anything up for IT?
Read the Illusive Man's comic, I think it's called Retribution, it takes place before Saren had even met Sovergin and explains why TIM is the way he is.
I have not read it but I heard the reason. He touched someone being huskified by a Reaper object of some kind or something along those lines. I fail to see how that means anything for IT.
Tom Lehrer wrote...
I have not read it but I heard the reason. He touched someone being huskified by a Reaper object of some kind or something along those lines. I fail to see how that means anything for IT.
Modifié par balance5050, 12 mai 2012 - 05:48 .
KingZayd wrote...
The first one is Evolution, which is useful in conjunction with Arrival.
Tom Lehrer wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
The first one is Evolution, which is useful in conjunction with Arrival.
Like I said a dozen times already. What about Shepards that did not do Arrival? If we do not do that DLC a spec-ops teams gets sent in Shepards place. That means Shepard was never in the same system as Rho lot alone the same room.
The lore does support it. The Shanxi artifact indoctrinates everyone it activates on in that same way. The Normandy is still grounded even if you didn't do Arrival. The reason the Normandy is grounded is because of the events of Arrival.Opsrbest wrote...
The codex says -through means of electromagnetic fields, infra-ultrasonic sounds and other subliminal messages- thats how a subject becomes indoctrinated. Shepard can get scanned by Dr. Chakwas or Michel in the Normandys med bay where they check to see how the implants are doing. If Shepard was indoctrinated it would show. There would be a physical side effect. Vendetta infers that there is a means to determine if an indoctrinated presence is nearby. There is only one way to do that.KingZayd wrote...
Opsrbest wrote...
If Shepard was in any way indoctrinated, people at any given point in time the VI on the Asari home world Vendetta would have noticed it.
It is beyond breaking of the plot and the etablished lore for Shepard to be considered indoctrinated, being indoctrinated or otherwise anything to do with indoctrination. It BREAKS the narrative of Shepard. It BREAKS the lore of indoctrination.
The only allowable means of indoctrination, which would kill Shepard since the codex states it's severity to the umptenth degree is rapid indoctrination.
And if that's the case Shepard is officially a Mary Sue.
And TIM uses a modified Reaper control signal for Husks with his implants. The only real time Shepard is exposed to high amounts of Reaper tech that can affect him is through TIM.
Because Vendetta's indoctrination sensors are perfect? I wonder why the crucible project failed due to indoctrinated protheans then ?
And there is another time: Object Rho.
Object Rho is not applicable. It is not referenced at all in ME3 if you did not play Arrival in ME2. IDT can not use that as fact since the story and lore itself doesnt support it.
Also you just proved occams razor correct. Thats three assumptions you have to make in able to get IDT to work. And one of them isnt even applicable to the theory.
Modifié par KingZayd, 12 mai 2012 - 05:54 .
KingZayd wrote...
Tom Lehrer wrote...
deathlord413 wrote...
Tom Lehrer wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
Really? Read the comics and you'll see that he sets up the IT pretty concisely.
I know the setting for the retake Omega DLC was set up in the comics just like LotSB. The comics seem more like hooks for DLC then vital parts of Shepards story.
In fact Shepard is not even in the comics so how could it set anything up for IT?
Read the Illusive Man's comic, I think it's called Retribution, it takes place before Saren had even met Sovergin and explains why TIM is the way he is.
I have not read it but I heard the reason. He touched someone being huskified by a Reaper object of some kind or something along those lines. I fail to see how that means anything for IT.
He touched him, the artifact activated and he was knocked out. This was the start of his indoctrination. From that point on he could understand all alien languages and could sense the artifact wherever he was. Shepard gets hit by a similar artifact (Object Rho) in Arrival and is also knocked out, Both these artifacts have indoctrinated everyone they've activated on so far.
Tom Lehrer wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
The first one is Evolution, which is useful in conjunction with Arrival.
Like I said a dozen times already. What about Shepards that did not do Arrival? If we do not do that DLC a spec-ops teams gets sent in Shepards place. That means Shepard was never in the same system as Rho lot alone the same room.
Tom Lehrer wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
The first one is Evolution, which is useful in conjunction with Arrival.
Like I said a dozen times already. What about Shepards that did not do Arrival? If we do not do that DLC a spec-ops teams gets sent in Shepards place. That means Shepard was never in the same system as Rho lot alone the same room.
KingZayd wrote...
Slayer299 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
Slayer299 wrote...
No. IT *is* idiotic and to have that for Shepard's ending isn't brilliant writing on BW's part, its cheap and lazy.
On the contrary it's cheap and lazy not to tackle the issue of Shepard and indoctrination. There is no reason the reapers wouldn't try. And there is no reason to believe Shepard is somehow immune.
Immune? No. But to add this into a game that is "a great place for new players to enter the series" is stupid. So, how are new players going to come to this conclusion/understand anything about indoctrication? It comes out of left field as far as they are concerned and Sanctuary doesn't tell them much to understand it either.
Now, for the dreams to show how badly the last 3 years have taken a mental toll on Shepard makes more sense.
The end of a trilogy is a stupid way to enter a series anyway. How much does the average new player even get out of the story?
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