867 réponses à ce sujet

[deathlord413]

Bill Casey wrote...



Well that's interesting...

Haven't seen that one yet. Good find.

[Tom Lehrer]

KingZayd wrote...

Tom Lehrer wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


The first one is Evolution, which is useful in conjunction with Arrival.

Like I said a dozen times already. What about Shepards that did not do Arrival? If we do not do that DLC a spec-ops teams gets sent in Shepards place. That means Shepard was never in the same system as Rho lot alone the same room.

Like I said a dozen times already, that doesn't affect the overall story. Liara is still the Shadow Broker even if you didn't help her. The Normandy is still confiscated from you, even if you didn't kill tons of batarians. They give you little excuses for in the case you haven't done these DLC, yet the DLC still determines the overall story.

All of those got replacments in the story. Tell me what takes the palce of Rho in ME3?

Modifié par Tom Lehrer, 12 mai 2012 - 05:55 .

[balance5050]

deathlord413 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...



Well that's interesting...

Haven't seen that one yet. Good find.

Notice how it says "reaper power" and "Reaper indoc blur" people.

[Bill Casey]

"ReaperIndoc_blur_End002_VCFX"


Problem?

[balance5050]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Tom Lehrer wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


The first one is Evolution, which is useful in conjunction with Arrival.

Like I said a dozen times already. What about Shepards that did not do Arrival? If we do not do that DLC a spec-ops teams gets sent in Shepards place. That means Shepard was never in the same system as Rho lot alone the same room.

Like I said a dozen times already, that doesn't affect the overall story. Liara is still the Shadow Broker even if you didn't help her. The Normandy is still confiscated from you, even if you didn't kill tons of batarians. They give you little excuses for in the case you haven't done these DLC, yet the DLC still determines the overall story.

All of those got replacments in the story. Tell me what takes the palce of Rho in ME3?

For the purposes of IT - Derelict reaper, reaper IFF, collector base, human reaper. and all the reaper tech you collect in ME3 for the alliance and for Glygh to study.

Modifié par balance5050, 12 mai 2012 - 05:57 .

[Cirreus]

I love "IT" as much as the next guy. It "would" have been a great twist ending. But this is the company that gave us DA2, not the company that was anymore (ME1, KotOR, Jade Empire). IT looks good on paper because of the artists unintended visual interpretation of the sh*t they were assigned to visualize. The Final Hours app confirms this. The game was rushed, the side effects of the Reaper control sequence being cut gave birth to IT. Nothing more.

The prothean VI "Vendetta" on Thessia is just another example of bad writing. If it's "beacon" hardware can detect (ala tricorder style) what's going on in the universe (or just locally outside the temple), why didn't it question Shepard implants ? Or any Biotic squadmates ? The squads armor, weapons, power sources, EDI ? Oh, but for the purposes of a grand entrance, only Sh*t Lang's implants are based on Reaper tech. Unlike the rest of Mass Effect's universe, none of the main character's toys are based on Reaper tech (hmm, say like Shepards miracle implants that just happened to be made by the key Reaper agent in this story, TIM... or any of that crap Soverign & Legion said back in ME1/2 reminding us all of our mass effect tech is based on Reaper tech & following the Reaper plans).

Point being, Mass Effect 3 is no better than that crap novel "Mass Effecrt Deception" by William C. Dietz. By the way, those errors we'e to be canon fact in the ME universe as is the other transmedia.

As far as I'm concerned (I lie to myself & say;), Mass Effect 3 didn't happen. Just like ME: Deception didn't happen.

Modifié par Cirreus, 12 mai 2012 - 05:58 .

[Slayer299]

deathlord413 wrote...

Tom Lehrer wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


The first one is Evolution, which is useful in conjunction with Arrival.

Like I said a dozen times already. What about Shepards that did not do Arrival? If we do not do that DLC a spec-ops teams gets sent in Shepards place. That means Shepard was never in the same system as Rho lot alone the same room.

The Prothean Beacons are based on similar technology to the Reaper artifacts. It is possible that create an effect like Indoctrination that the Protheans wouldn't have noticed until it was too late. Other than that who's to say that the Reaper IFF isn't giving off some kind of siganl underneath that EDI missed, unlikely, but possible. 

The beacons are't based on similar tech to the Reapers. Javik explains this when he first talks to Shepard about how they transfer memories back and forth between themselves. The beacons are based on how Protheans shared information, not due to technology from the outside.

[deathlord413]

Slayer299 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

No. IT *is* idiotic and to have that for Shepard's ending isn't brilliant writing on BW's part, its cheap and lazy.

On the contrary it's cheap and lazy not to tackle the issue of Shepard and indoctrination. There is no reason the reapers wouldn't try. And there is no reason to believe Shepard is somehow immune.

Immune? No. But to add this into a game that is "a great place for new players to enter the series" is stupid. So, how are new players going to come to this conclusion/understand anything about indoctrication? It comes out of left field as far as they are concerned and Sanctuary doesn't tell them much to understand it either.

Now, for the dreams to show how badly the last 3 years have taken a mental toll on Shepard makes more sense.

The end of a trilogy is a stupid way to enter a series anyway. How much does the average new player even get out of the story?

No arguments there. That quote when I heard had me totally facepalming.

I think they were saying it is a good place to jump in is because they wanted to try and steal some of the Gears fans. Those who playe,but didn't get it may go out and buy the first two in order to catch up and see what they missed. I mean have you seen what kind of a game you get without an import? It has got to be the worst playthrough imaginable.  

[KingZayd]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Tom Lehrer wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


The first one is Evolution, which is useful in conjunction with Arrival.

Like I said a dozen times already. What about Shepards that did not do Arrival? If we do not do that DLC a spec-ops teams gets sent in Shepards place. That means Shepard was never in the same system as Rho lot alone the same room.

Like I said a dozen times already, that doesn't affect the overall story. Liara is still the Shadow Broker even if you didn't help her. The Normandy is still confiscated from you, even if you didn't kill tons of batarians. They give you little excuses for in the case you haven't done these DLC, yet the DLC still determines the overall story.

All of those got replacments in the story. Tell me what takes the palce of Rho in ME3?

Oh yeah, because the Council and the Alliance, knowing perfectly well that Shepard was working with Cerberus, only started to care AFTER the events of Arrival? like that makes sense?

Rho is the big hint that Shepard's being indoctrinated.

As for other places Shepard could have gotten indoctrinated? The Derelict Reaper, The Rannoch Reaper (who he walks up and talks to face to face) are some examples of when he got really close to the reapers.

Like I said, the events in Arrival still affect the main plot. Object Rho activates on Shepard and Shepard gets grounded.

[deathlord413]

Slayer299 wrote...

deathlord413 wrote...

Tom Lehrer wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


The first one is Evolution, which is useful in conjunction with Arrival.

Like I said a dozen times already. What about Shepards that did not do Arrival? If we do not do that DLC a spec-ops teams gets sent in Shepards place. That means Shepard was never in the same system as Rho lot alone the same room.

The Prothean Beacons are based on similar technology to the Reaper artifacts. It is possible that create an effect like Indoctrination that the Protheans wouldn't have noticed until it was too late. Other than that who's to say that the Reaper IFF isn't giving off some kind of siganl underneath that EDI missed, unlikely, but possible. 

The beacons are't based on similar tech to the Reapers. Javik explains this when he first talks to Shepard about how they transfer memories back and forth between themselves. The beacons are based on how Protheans shared information, not due to technology from the outside.

Where did the Protheans learn how to create their advanced tech?

"Your civilization is based on the Mass Relays, our technology. By using it your, society develops along the paths we desire." 

Even if the Prothean memory sharing thing is genetic they still had to invent the equipment to create the Beacons. 

[balance5050]

Cirreus wrote...

I love "IT" as much as the next guy. It "would" have been a great twist ending. But this is the company that gave us DA2, not the company that was anymore (ME1, KotOR, Jade Empire). IT looks good on paper because of the artists unintended visual interpretation of the sh*t they were assigned to visualize. The Final Hours app confirms this. The game was rushed, the side effects of the Reaper control sequence being cut gave birth to IT. Nothing more.

The prothean VI "Vendetta" on Thessia is just another example of bad writing. If it's "beacon" hardware can detect (ala tricorder style) what's going on in the universe (or just locally outside the temple), why didn't it question Shepard implants ? Or any Biotic squadmates ? They squads armor, weapons, power sources, EDI ? Oh, but for the purposes of a grand entrance, only Sh*t Lang's implants are based on Reaper tech. Unlike the rest of Mass Effect's universe, none of the main character's toys are based on Reaper tech (hmm, say like Shepards miracle implants that just happened to be made by the key Reaper agent in this story, TIM... or any of that crap Soverign & Legion said back in ME1/2 reminding us all of our mass effect tech is based on Reaper tech & following the Reaper plans).

Point being, Mass Effect 3 is no better than that crap novel "Mass Effecrt Deception" by William C. Dietz. By the way, those errors we're to be canon fact in the ME universe as is the other transmedia.

As far as I'm concerned (I lie to myself & say;), Mass Effect 3 didn't happen. Just like ME: Deception didn't happen.

The DA and ME teams are complety different people. Same company but different people.

The Vi issue has been explained away within the game itself (indoctrinated sleeper agents).

Mass Effect 3 is no better than that crap novel "Mass Effecrt Deception" by William C. Dietz. By the way, those errors we're to be canon fact in the ME universe as is the other transmedia. 

Eww 

You have faulty info, Deception is being rewritten because it was so bad.

[deathlord413]

balance5050 wrote...

Cirreus wrote...

I love "IT" as much as the next guy. It "would" have been a great twist ending. But this is the company that gave us DA2, not the company that was anymore (ME1, KotOR, Jade Empire). IT looks good on paper because of the artists unintended visual interpretation of the sh*t they were assigned to visualize. The Final Hours app confirms this. The game was rushed, the side effects of the Reaper control sequence being cut gave birth to IT. Nothing more.

The prothean VI "Vendetta" on Thessia is just another example of bad writing. If it's "beacon" hardware can detect (ala tricorder style) what's going on in the universe (or just locally outside the temple), why didn't it question Shepard implants ? Or any Biotic squadmates ? They squads armor, weapons, power sources, EDI ? Oh, but for the purposes of a grand entrance, only Sh*t Lang's implants are based on Reaper tech. Unlike the rest of Mass Effect's universe, none of the main character's toys are based on Reaper tech (hmm, say like Shepards miracle implants that just happened to be made by the key Reaper agent in this story, TIM... or any of that crap Soverign & Legion said back in ME1/2 reminding us all of our mass effect tech is based on Reaper tech & following the Reaper plans).

Point being, Mass Effect 3 is no better than that crap novel "Mass Effecrt Deception" by William C. Dietz. By the way, those errors we're to be canon fact in the ME universe as is the other transmedia.

As far as I'm concerned (I lie to myself & say;), Mass Effect 3 didn't happen. Just like ME: Deception didn't happen.

The DA and ME teams are complety different people. Same company but different people.

The Vi issue has been explained away within the game itself (indoctrinated sleeper agents).

Mass Effect 3 is no better than that crap novel "Mass Effecrt Deception" by William C. Dietz. By the way, those errors we're to be canon fact in the ME universe as is the other transmedia. 

Eww 

You have faulty info, Deception is being rewritten because it was so bad.

What "Scales" said.

[Bill Casey]

deathlord413 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...



Well that's interesting...

Haven't seen that one yet. Good find.

Got it from looking through Parabolee's blog...

[balance5050]

Alright, just want to say thanks to my fellow freedom fighters. Keep fighting for the truth, and don't let reaper propoganda invade our forum.

Modifié par balance5050, 12 mai 2012 - 06:09 .

[BigGuy28]

balance5050 wrote...

Alright, just want to say thanks to my fellow freedom fighters. Keep fighting for the truth, and don't let reaper propoganda invade our forum.

With this you have just made me hate IT and it's followers even more, I thank you because I didn't know that was possible.

[balance5050]

BigGuy28 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Alright, just want to say thanks to my fellow freedom fighters. Keep fighting for the truth, and don't let reaper propoganda invade our forum.

With this you have just made me hate IT and it's followers even more, I thank you because I didn't know that was possible.

It's a meta game for me, I don't like mindlessly spewing hate like so many others.... you for instance.

Modifié par balance5050, 12 mai 2012 - 06:21 .

[BigGuy28]

balance5050 wrote...

BigGuy28 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Alright, just want to say thanks to my fellow freedom fighters. Keep fighting for the truth, and don't let reaper propoganda invade our forum.

With this you have just made me hate IT and it's followers even more, I thank you because I didn't know that was possible.

It's a meta game for me, I don't like mindlessly spewing hate like so many others.... you for instance.

My hate comes from the fact that most of the IT people, you for instance, act like it's a proven fact and the rest of us are too stupid to understand it. Now you make some statement pretending to be "freeedom fighters" fighting for the "truth". So yes my mere dislike has turned into hate.

The endings are terrible, IT is just some stuff people came up with to make them suck less for them. To me and many others IT is worse than the endings we got and we are tired of you guys vomiting into every thread  you can or making multiple threads about how you don't understand why people don't see it. There is no real proof for it despite how much you flail and post supposed proof. If you want to believe it fine, I'm happy for you if you can find something that makes the endings more palatable for you. But stop acting like IT is real, it's not until Bioware says it is.

[balance5050]

BigGuy28 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

It's a meta game for me, I don't like mindlessly spewing hate like so many others.... you for instance.

My hate comes from the fact that most of the IT people, you for instance, act like it's a proven fact and the rest of us are too stupid to understand it. Now you make some statement pretending to be "freeedom fighters" fighting for the "truth". So yes my mere dislike has turned into hate.

The endings are terrible, IT is just some stuff people came up with to make them suck less for them. To me and many others IT is worse than the endings we got and we are tired of you guys vomiting into every thread  you can or making multiple threads about how you don't understand why people don't see it. There is no real proof for it despite how much you flail and post supposed proof. If you want to believe it fine, I'm happy for you if you can find something that makes the endings more palatable for you. But stop acting like IT is real, it's not until Bioware says it is.

I can tell you're a glass half full kinda guy....

Modifié par balance5050, 12 mai 2012 - 06:35 .

[balance5050]

Opsrbest wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...
The codex says -through means of electromagnetic fields, infra-ultrasonic sounds and other subliminal messages- thats how a subject becomes indoctrinated. Shepard can get scanned by Dr. Chakwas or Michel in the Normandys med bay where they check to see how the implants are doing. If Shepard was indoctrinated it would show. There would be a physical side effect. Vendetta infers that there is a means to determine if an indoctrinated presence is nearby. There is only one way to do that.

Object Rho is not applicable. It is not referenced at all in ME3 if you did not play Arrival in ME2. IDT can not use that as fact since the story and lore itself doesnt support it.

Also you just proved occams razor correct. Thats three assumptions you have to make in able to get IDT to work. And one of them isnt even applicable to the theory.

The lore does support it. The Shanxi artifact indoctrinates everyone it activates on in that same way. The Normandy is still grounded even if you didn't do Arrival. The reason the Normandy is grounded is because of the events of Arrival. 

Vendetta not being able to detect miniscule levels of indoctrination is my only assumption. which equals 1 assumption.


And I was unaware Dr Chakwas had indoctrination detection, where did she obtain such technology?

A minor level of indoctrination is wholly breaking the suspension of disbelief of ME3 if within the 6 months period of the end of Arrival to the start of ME3 Shepard is to be considered indoctrinated. Months to years of slow indoctrination would mean that through the game of ME3 Shepard would exhibit some form of indoctrination. IDT breaks the entire plot of the game. TIM is indoctrinated and so is Kia Leng no one argues against that. If Vendetta is wrong or capable of being wrong then both TIM and Kia Leng cant wholly be considered indoctrinated and the entire plot arch of Thessia is broken. The entire reasoning for Thessia and everything after is broken. TIM and Kia Leng must be indoctrinated. TIM is capable of self determination to the point of not being able to kill the Reapers because they wont let him. If Shepard is indoctrinated then Shepard would not be able to kill the Reapers.

And it was three assumptions. First the Vendetta was wrong assumption, second that the Protheans failed because of indoctrinated forces and thirdly, Arrival. Which while we are on the subject Arrival has no applicability. The start of ME3 without Arrival has the Normandy grounded for the same reasons but if Shepard never went to the asteroid and interacted with Object Rho he can not be affected by it. Its other forces that Hackett sends to deal with Kenson and the Batarians.

I wasnt saying Chakwas had indoctrination technology. Only that the effects of indoctrination would be able to be measured and there would be a line about how something seems off.

No one fully knows how indoctrination works and it's different for every person depending on their personality, desires, and dreams. Javik couldn't even tell that his crewmates were indoc until it was to late, and he can sense who you've slept with for crying out loud.

The indoc on Shepard would have to be of the most subtle, psychological, inception type for no one (not even Shepard) to notice, the reapers are smart and they know this.

Modifié par balance5050, 12 mai 2012 - 06:43 .

[balance5050]

Opsrbest wrote...

If no one knows how indoctrination works then Vendetta can not possibly know that Kia Leng is indoctrinated. Which means the last quarter of the game is broken. The Prothean VI based on Protheans is wrong.

As for Shepard it can be as subtle as it wants. All it does in that case is violate the enitre premis of ME1 and Saren, Benezia and all of ME3 with TIM and Kia Leng. The whole point of indoctrination is that the subject doesnt know they are indoctrinated to begin with. You cant explain why Shepard would want to destory the Reapers or even have the thought of destrying the Reapers if he is even subtly indoctrinated. He would not be able to do it.

Even considering that Shepard is only a tiny bit indoctrinated, less then 1%, facing the Catalyst Shepard would not be able to chose the Destroy option. At all. He isnt going to have some miracle of miracles where he resists that 1% and destroys the Reapers.

Because if he is only a tiny bit indoctrinated there is no reason for IDT to exist since the effects of indoctrination are invalid.

See? You don't even know how indoctrination works......

Modifié par balance5050, 12 mai 2012 - 07:12 .

[hoodaticus]

Opsrbest wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...

If no one knows how indoctrination works then Vendetta can not possibly know that Kia Leng is indoctrinated. Which means the last quarter of the game is broken. The Prothean VI based on Protheans is wrong.

As for Shepard it can be as subtle as it wants. All it does in that case is violate the enitre premis of ME1 and Saren, Benezia and all of ME3 with TIM and Kia Leng. The whole point of indoctrination is that the subject doesnt know they are indoctrinated to begin with. You cant explain why Shepard would want to destory the Reapers or even have the thought of destrying the Reapers if he is even subtly indoctrinated. He would not be able to do it.

Even considering that Shepard is only a tiny bit indoctrinated, less then 1%, facing the Catalyst Shepard would not be able to chose the Destroy option. At all. He isnt going to have some miracle of miracles where he resists that 1% and destroys the Reapers.

Because if he is only a tiny bit indoctrinated there is no reason for IDT to exist since the effects of indoctrination are invalid.

See? You don't even know how indoctrination works......

Clearly neither do you then   Indoctrination is either a state of mind which makes it undetectable or its a physical state which means it can be detected.

No, that's incorrect.  It's signals, nanomachines, and hypnosis.

Cancer can be detected.  It can also be undectectable.