867 réponses à ce sujet

[jijeebo]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

All for short amounts of time. Nice diversion from talking about Arrival, nearly didn't notice

People become indoctrinated with far less contact, the thread is about indoctrination not arrival.

I wasn't trying to diverge from what you were saying. I simply said you were right about not being grounded because of the events in Arrival IF you didn't do Arrival. My Shepard did it all.

Such as? Not just started the process to be indoctrinated, but fully indoctrinated?

You get Emails about how millions of people are just wondering into the reaper processing facilities on Earth.

You got a link to these online? I was never any good at checking the e-mails regularly.

[dreman9999]

SubAstris wrote...

Heg28 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Heg28 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Right, you were grounded because of your dealings with Cerberus, where you boarded the derelict reaper, attained the reaper IFF (which is still on the Normandy I believe) went to the Collector base where they make reapers, and fought a human reaper embryo.

All for short amounts of time. Nice diversion from talking about Arrival, nearly didn't notice

But it adds up, doesn´t it?

That depends

Maybe, but, to get back to the original topic, do you not believe that the scene with TIM is an indoctrination attempt? Since Shepard has nearly every symptom stated in the codex? If not, why not?

I think TIM that has some manipulation of Shepard and Anderson in that scene, yes

What is indoctrination?

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

You get Emails about how millions of people are just wondering into the reaper processing facilities on Earth.

And you know the precise amount of time that they have been in those facilities for to compare with Shepard?

PFfft! They wondered in BECAUSE they were indoctrinated.

And you know what they have been in the presence of and for how long presumably?

They were around reapers and husk for several months tops, Shepard has been fighting the reapers for 3 years.

Modifié par balance5050, 12 mai 2012 - 05:45 .

[SubAstris]

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Heg28 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Heg28 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Right, you were grounded because of your dealings with Cerberus, where you boarded the derelict reaper, attained the reaper IFF (which is still on the Normandy I believe) went to the Collector base where they make reapers, and fought a human reaper embryo.

All for short amounts of time. Nice diversion from talking about Arrival, nearly didn't notice

But it adds up, doesn´t it?

That depends

Maybe, but, to get back to the original topic, do you not believe that the scene with TIM is an indoctrination attempt? Since Shepard has nearly every symptom stated in the codex? If not, why not?

I think TIM that has some manipulation of Shepard and Anderson in that scene, yes

What is indoctrination?

I don't believe the whole bit from beam to end is not real. I believe that when TIM is with Shepard he is partly controlling him

[balance5050]

jijeebo wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

All for short amounts of time. Nice diversion from talking about Arrival, nearly didn't notice

People become indoctrinated with far less contact, the thread is about indoctrination not arrival.

I wasn't trying to diverge from what you were saying. I simply said you were right about not being grounded because of the events in Arrival IF you didn't do Arrival. My Shepard did it all.

Such as? Not just started the process to be indoctrinated, but fully indoctrinated?

You get Emails about how millions of people are just wondering into the reaper processing facilities on Earth.

You got a link to these online? I was never any good at checking the e-mails regularly.

I actually don't, but I think even in the codex there is a bit that says that many people wondered in to the reapers facilities.

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

You get Emails about how millions of people are just wondering into the reaper processing facilities on Earth.

And you know the precise amount of time that they have been in those facilities for to compare with Shepard?

PFfft! They wondered in BECAUSE they were indoctrinated.

And you know what they have been in the presence of and for how long presumably?

They were around reapers and husk for several months tops, Shepard has been fighting the reapers for 3 years.

But it depends on your proximity to the Reaper tech as well. Since we don't this, you can't make your claim

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

I don't believe the whole bit from beam to end is not real. I believe that when TIM is with Shepard he is partly controlling him

 You mean indoctrinating him... TIM is just about fully indoctrinated at this point, Shep is being indoctrinated just by being in TIM's presence.

"Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signal."

http://masseffect.wi.../Indoctrination 

Modifié par balance5050, 12 mai 2012 - 05:49 .

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

You get Emails about how millions of people are just wondering into the reaper processing facilities on Earth.

And you know the precise amount of time that they have been in those facilities for to compare with Shepard?

PFfft! They wondered in BECAUSE they were indoctrinated.

And you know what they have been in the presence of and for how long presumably?

They were around reapers and husk for several months tops, Shepard has been fighting the reapers for 3 years.

But it depends on your proximity to the Reaper tech as well. Since we don't this, you can't make your claim

It's the codex's claim.

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

You get Emails about how millions of people are just wondering into the reaper processing facilities on Earth.

And you know the precise amount of time that they have been in those facilities for to compare with Shepard?

PFfft! They wondered in BECAUSE they were indoctrinated.

And you know what they have been in the presence of and for how long presumably?

They were around reapers and husk for several months tops, Shepard has been fighting the reapers for 3 years.

But it depends on your proximity to the Reaper tech as well. Since we don't this, you can't make your claim

It's the codex's claim.

Irrelevant. You don't know enough about it and therefore your original claim is unsubstantiated

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

I don't believe the whole bit from beam to end is not real. I believe that when TIM is with Shepard he is partly controlling him

 You mean indoctrinating him... TIM is just about fully indoctrinated at this point, Shep is being indoctrinated just by being in TIM's presence.

"Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signal."

http://masseffect.wi.../Indoctrination 

Yeah.

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

You get Emails about how millions of people are just wondering into the reaper processing facilities on Earth.

And you know the precise amount of time that they have been in those facilities for to compare with Shepard?

PFfft! They wondered in BECAUSE they were indoctrinated.

And you know what they have been in the presence of and for how long presumably?

They were around reapers and husk for several months tops, Shepard has been fighting the reapers for 3 years.

But it depends on your proximity to the Reaper tech as well. Since we don't this, you can't make your claim

It's the codex's claim.

Irrelevant. You don't know enough about it and therefore your original claim is unsubstantiated

HUH? I'm not following....The game's codex and emails are lying to me?

[dreman9999]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

You get Emails about how millions of people are just wondering into the reaper processing facilities on Earth.

And you know the precise amount of time that they have been in those facilities for to compare with Shepard?

PFfft! They wondered in BECAUSE they were indoctrinated.

And you know what they have been in the presence of and for how long presumably?

They were around reapers and husk for several months tops, Shepard has been fighting the reapers for 3 years.

But it depends on your proximity to the Reaper tech as well. Since we don't this, you can't make your claim

How many times did you walk by dragons teeth or kill a husk? And didn't we walk inside a dead reaper?

[Dendio1]

The devs originally planned to have shepard clearly indoctrinated. The plan was scrapped because the mechanics were too difficult to pull off. The arrival dlc, hints at this development. And the final hours app confirms it.

Even though they could not get the indoctrination to work, the elements of it are shown throughout the game. However its not as obvious because the logical climax was scrapped. Without a point where the game clearly points to shepard being indoctrinated some speculate shepard's weird dreams are the result of built up stress, but I believe they were part of the original indoctrination plan. It makes more sense to devote those resources towards a big IT reveal than to make those scenes just because war is hell.

Star kid speaks oddly and motivates shepard towards control and synthesis. Starkid makes destroy out to be a bad choice. I believe these are relics of the original indoctrination plans. The whole final scene is so jarring because there is no build up to the kid appearing outside of the dream world. If the indoc plan was carried out it would be a little more expected.

Bottom line though, even without indoctrination we have enough evidence that destroy is the right choice and control/ synthesis is a red herring.

Control:
You will die. You will control us, but you will lose everything you have.

Hidden message= you will gain control, but you will lose it along with everything you have.
Net effect= disintegration and no control

Synthesis
And there will be peace?
The cycle will end, synthesis is the final evolution of life ( reapers are the final evolution of life and organic/synthetic)

Net effect= everyone is reaper like
Peace not guaranteed or even mentioned by star kid.

So, as you see, even without indoctrinations the choices still follow the same dynamic.

[dreman9999]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

You get Emails about how millions of people are just wondering into the reaper processing facilities on Earth.

And you know the precise amount of time that they have been in those facilities for to compare with Shepard?

PFfft! They wondered in BECAUSE they were indoctrinated.

And you know what they have been in the presence of and for how long presumably?

They were around reapers and husk for several months tops, Shepard has been fighting the reapers for 3 years.

But it depends on your proximity to the Reaper tech as well. Since we don't this, you can't make your claim

It's the codex's claim.

Irrelevant. You don't know enough about it and therefore your original claim is unsubstantiated

The codex is not irrelivent. It's fact.

[dreman9999]

Dendio1 wrote...

The devs originally planned to have shepard clearly indoctrinated. The plan was scrapped because the mechanics were too difficult to pull off. The arrival dlc, hints at this development. And the final hours app confirms it.

Even though they could not get the indoctrination to work, the elements of it are shown throughout the game. However its not as obvious because the logical climax was scrapped. Without a point where the game clearly points to shepard being indoctrinated some speculate shepard's weird dreams are the result of built up stress, but I believe they were part of the original indoctrination plan. It makes more sense to devote those resources towards a big IT reveal than to make those scenes just because war is hell.

Star kid speaks oddly and motivates shepard towards control and synthesis. Starkid makes destroy out to be a bad choice. I believe these are relics of the original indoctrination plans. The whole final scene is so jarring because there is no build up to the kid appearing outside of the dream world. If the indoc plan was carried out it would be a little more expected.

Bottom line though, even without indoctrination we have enough evidence that destroy is the right choice and control/ synthesis is a red herring.

Control:
You will die. You will control us, but you will lose everything you have.

Hidden message= you will gain control, but you will lose it along with everything you have.
Net effect= disintegration and no control

Synthesis
And there will be peace?
The cycle will end, synthesis is the final evolution of life ( reapers are the final evolution of life and organic/synthetic)

Net effect= everyone is reaper like
Peace not guaranteed or even mentioned by star kid.

So, as you see, even without indoctrinations the choices still follow the same dynamic.

Ya, but your missing the fact that TIM controls Shepard with indoctrination in the story any way.

[OdanUrr]

balance5050 wrote...

It's the codex's claim.

The same codex that claims the Reapers are "a myth common to several cultures in the galaxy"?

[jijeebo]

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

All for short amounts of time. Nice diversion from talking about Arrival, nearly didn't notice

People become indoctrinated with far less contact, the thread is about indoctrination not arrival.

I wasn't trying to diverge from what you were saying. I simply said you were right about not being grounded because of the events in Arrival IF you didn't do Arrival. My Shepard did it all.

Such as? Not just started the process to be indoctrinated, but fully indoctrinated?

You get Emails about how millions of people are just wondering into the reaper processing facilities on Earth.

You got a link to these online? I was never any good at checking the e-mails regularly.

I actually don't, but I think even in the codex there is a bit that says that many people wondered in to the reapers facilities.

Shoot, I wish I still had my copy of ME3 lying about.

[Kaelef]

<hogans_heroes>I see NOTHIIIIIIINNNGG......</hogans_heroes>

[Heg28]

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Heg28 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Heg28 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Right, you were grounded because of your dealings with Cerberus, where you boarded the derelict reaper, attained the reaper IFF (which is still on the Normandy I believe) went to the Collector base where they make reapers, and fought a human reaper embryo.

All for short amounts of time. Nice diversion from talking about Arrival, nearly didn't notice

But it adds up, doesn´t it?

That depends

Maybe, but, to get back to the original topic, do you not believe that the scene with TIM is an indoctrination attempt? Since Shepard has nearly every symptom stated in the codex? If not, why not?

I think TIM that has some manipulation of Shepard and Anderson in that scene, yes

What is indoctrination?

I don't believe the whole bit from beam to end is not real. I believe that when TIM is with Shepard he is partly controlling him

I´ve got my problems with the theory that after the beam everything is not real, too. Can´t yet decide what to believe there. But the scene with TIM is in my eyes definitly an indoctrination attempt. You said yourself he has control over Shepard. In addition he tries to convince you from his believes and Shepard gets the symptoms. Now consider that TIM is already under Reaper indoctrination, which essentially means that he is trying to get Shepard on Reaper side, even though he is not aware of that, and that ultimately is indoctrination.

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

You get Emails about how millions of people are just wondering into the reaper processing facilities on Earth.

And you know the precise amount of time that they have been in those facilities for to compare with Shepard?

PFfft! They wondered in BECAUSE they were indoctrinated.

And you know what they have been in the presence of and for how long presumably?

They were around reapers and husk for several months tops, Shepard has been fighting the reapers for 3 years.

But it depends on your proximity to the Reaper tech as well. Since we don't this, you can't make your claim

It's the codex's claim.

Irrelevant. You don't know enough about it and therefore your original claim is unsubstantiated

HUH? I'm not following....The game's codex and emails are lying to me?

What does the Codex actually say in full on this matter?

[balance5050]

OdanUrr wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

It's the codex's claim.

The same codex that claims the Reapers are "a myth common to several cultures in the galaxy"?

ME3's codex.

[SubAstris]

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

You get Emails about how millions of people are just wondering into the reaper processing facilities on Earth.

And you know the precise amount of time that they have been in those facilities for to compare with Shepard?

PFfft! They wondered in BECAUSE they were indoctrinated.

And you know what they have been in the presence of and for how long presumably?

They were around reapers and husk for several months tops, Shepard has been fighting the reapers for 3 years.

But it depends on your proximity to the Reaper tech as well. Since we don't this, you can't make your claim

How many times did you walk by dragons teeth or kill a husk? And didn't we walk inside

Some times for a short amounts of periods.

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

I don't believe the whole bit from beam to end is not real. I believe that when TIM is with Shepard he is partly controlling him

 You mean indoctrinating him... TIM is just about fully indoctrinated at this point, Shep is being indoctrinated just by being in TIM's presence.

"Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signal."

http://masseffect.wi.../Indoctrination 

Yeah.

Well I am glad you at least agree with the OP, there may be some hope for you yet Sub.

[covertdrizzt]

I don't understand why some people are so against I.T. I always thought the dreams were some how comming from the reapers.(there has never been dreams before) Tim is definitly controlling you at the end when you shoot anderson. I thought starchild was harbinger messing with your head. I think I.T. is the only way to make sense of the current ending but it still needs more explanation. hopefully E.C. will straighten this out.

[jijeebo]

covertdrizzt wrote...

I don't understand why some people are so against I.T. I always thought the dreams were some how comming from the reapers.(there has never been dreams before) Tim is definitly controlling you at the end when you shoot anderson. I thought starchild was harbinger messing with your head. I think I.T. is the only way to make sense of the current ending but it still needs more explanation. hopefully E.C. will straighten this out.

Whilst the Bad-Writing Theory doe nothing to solve the plot holes presented, it explains why they are there and EC could easily smooth most of them over.

The forums are like the geth consensus - presented with the same game we have come to different conclusions concerning the reason behind its glaring flaws, and there is no definitive way to say which conclusion is more accurate... So we go around in circles until summer, and maybe even after that.