Guest_Opsrbest_*
You will have to be more specific I don't understand your question. The only answer I can give you is that if TIM is indoctrinated and by admission Kia Leng given that Vendetta is correct in both those cases and at the end of the game TIM is indeed indoctrinated TIM as presented wouldn't be able to destroy the Reapers. Or as the Catalyst puts it "we already controlled him so he couldn't control us.". If TIM is to be indoctrinated then as a character that self determines his actions, while influenced to have the Reapers survive and when faced with a threat to the Reapers not abide seeing them destroyed. The same as Saren and Benezia.KingZayd wrote...
Opsrbest wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
The lore does support it. The Shanxi artifact indoctrinates everyone it activates on in that same way. The Normandy is still grounded even if you didn't do Arrival. The reason the Normandy is grounded is because of the events of Arrival.Opsrbest wrote...
The codex says -through means of electromagnetic fields, infra-ultrasonic sounds and other subliminal messages- thats how a subject becomes indoctrinated. Shepard can get scanned by Dr. Chakwas or Michel in the Normandys med bay where they check to see how the implants are doing. If Shepard was indoctrinated it would show. There would be a physical side effect. Vendetta infers that there is a means to determine if an indoctrinated presence is nearby. There is only one way to do that.
Object Rho is not applicable. It is not referenced at all in ME3 if you did not play Arrival in ME2. IDT can not use that as fact since the story and lore itself doesnt support it.
Also you just proved occams razor correct. Thats three assumptions you have to make in able to get IDT to work. And one of them isnt even applicable to the theory.
Vendetta not being able to detect miniscule levels of indoctrination is my only assumption. which equals 1 assumption.
And I was unaware Dr Chakwas had indoctrination detection, where did she obtain such technology?
A minor level of indoctrination is wholly breaking the suspension of disbelief of ME3 if within the 6 months period of the end of Arrival to the start of ME3 Shepard is to be considered indoctrinated. Months to years of slow indoctrination would mean that through the game of ME3 Shepard would exhibit some form of indoctrination. IDT breaks the entire plot of the game. TIM is indoctrinated and so is Kia Leng no one argues against that. If Vendetta is wrong or capable of being wrong then both TIM and Kia Leng cant wholly be considered indoctrinated and the entire plot arch of Thessia is broken. The entire reasoning for Thessia and everything after is broken. TIM and Kia Leng must be indoctrinated. TIM is capable of self determination to the point of not being able to kill the Reapers because they wont let him. If Shepard is indoctrinated then Shepard would not be able to kill the Reapers.
And it was three assumptions. First the Vendetta was wrong assumption, second that the Protheans failed because of indoctrinated forces and thirdly, Arrival. Which while we are on the subject Arrival has no applicability. The start of ME3 without Arrival has the Normandy grounded for the same reasons but if Shepard never went to the asteroid and interacted with Object Rho he can not be affected by it. Its other forces that Hackett sends to deal with Kenson and the Batarians.
I wasnt saying Chakwas had indoctrination technology. Only that the effects of indoctrination would be able to be measured and there would be a line about how something seems off.
Why would it? TIM's had it for even longer. What signs did we see and when did we see them?
Indoctrination is an absolute. Dr. Kenson and Object Rho itself prove that more then anything. The point of interaction where the Reapers face a direct threat results in the indoctrinated presence turning against those who represent the threat. Dr. Kenson exhibits no logical conclusion prior to interaction with Object Rho for Shepard that she is indoctrinated. If the only way to know that a character can be indoctrinated is through that conflict then Vendetta can not be able to detect indoctrination. It is not possible for there to exist a means to detect indoctrination that is limited by a certain effect level. It breaks the entire concept of indoctrination and the plot of the last quarter of the game.The idea isn't that Vendetta makes false positives or completely wrong assessments. It was that there is a limit to its abilties to sense indoctrination. That there has to be indoctrination to a level beyond a certain non-zero point. TIM and Kai Leng are indoctrinated.
Vendetta must be right. Indoctrination can not exist if it is a small or miniscule amount. You are either indoctrinated or you aren't.
Yes Vendetta is one assumption.Vendetta is 1 assumption.
This is one assumption. Vendetta not being able to detect a certain level of indoctrination is an assumption. That's two assumptions."The latest species to try, the Protheans, were able to construct the Crucible, but before they could deploy it, infighting broke out between those who wanted to use it to destroy the Reapers and a faction that believed they could use it to control the Reapers; these separatists were later discovered to be indoctrinated. While the Protheans never had the chance to activate the Crucible, its schematics survived in a Prothean archive on Mars for the next 50,000 years. "
Thats a third assumption. It is never established that the indoctrinated forces fully prevent the Protheans from deploying the Crusible.They built it, but were unable to use it because of the indoctrinated. Still 1 assumption.
It's irrelevent because IDT requires Shepard to interact with Object Rho. If you don't play Arrival the intro to ME3 is slightly changed as instead of Shepard interacting with Object Rho it is a bunch of random soldiers. It can not pertain to the plot in any canonical way under IDT if Shepard was never involved with it. It counts as an assumption because Shepard has to interact with Object Rho or kill the Batarians himself.Why wouldn't Arrival be relevant? Why make it if it's intended to be irrelevant? I don't see how that counts as an assumption when considering the plot?
She could be he does have implants in his brain. It's a full check up of the implants and the tissue around it.And why would the effects of indoctrination be measured by her scans? She's not scanning his brain is she?
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that turns every organism in the galaxy into a robot, hybrid thing.
