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[jijeebo]

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Wait, when was it established that husks troops can indoctrinate, or collectors? I know something was mentioned about reapers using them to communicate with each other by amplifying signals or w/e... But I don't recall the game saying that husks can themselves cause indoctrination? I could be wrong, but i'd need proof.

Husks are oozing with nanides that indoctrinate.

You're going to have to entertain my stupid here for a bit, because it's been a while since I played. Care to point me in the direction of the part of the trilogy that explains this, because i'm drawing a blank... Again.


... I really need to get my copy of ME3 back so I can do another complete runthrough.

In ME1 you learn that the dragons teeth pump people full of reaper nanides for rapid indoctrination, adrenaline speeds up the flow of nanides, so everytime you kill a husk it releases those nanides into the air. They spread just by vicinity.

"An excavation team in the Minos Wasteland on the planet Aequitas found a Reaper artifact that creates advanced husks. This device does not resemble dragon's teeth at all, instead featuring an orb of energy that turned the excavation team into husks with what appears to be a form of indoctrination, according to logs kept by the team, before it started creating more husks."

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Husk 

Good grief, the Catalyst is one majorly ****ed up guy... The more scared you are when you get impaled the quicker you get husked.


Unfortunately i'll have to chuck the airborn nanites down to speculation, because if they could indoctrinate that easily... Maybe they need to be injected directly into the blood to be effective, hence the impalement?

All this speculation makes my brain hurt.

[jijeebo]

balance5050 wrote...

The comics were written by the same man who wrote the endings.

... Then i'm surprised they made any sense at all. 

[balance5050]

jijeebo wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Wait, when was it established that husks troops can indoctrinate, or collectors? I know something was mentioned about reapers using them to communicate with each other by amplifying signals or w/e... But I don't recall the game saying that husks can themselves cause indoctrination? I could be wrong, but i'd need proof.

Husks are oozing with nanides that indoctrinate.

You're going to have to entertain my stupid here for a bit, because it's been a while since I played. Care to point me in the direction of the part of the trilogy that explains this, because i'm drawing a blank... Again.


... I really need to get my copy of ME3 back so I can do another complete runthrough.

In ME1 you learn that the dragons teeth pump people full of reaper nanides for rapid indoctrination, adrenaline speeds up the flow of nanides, so everytime you kill a husk it releases those nanides into the air. They spread just by vicinity.

"An excavation team in the Minos Wasteland on the planet Aequitas found a Reaper artifact that creates advanced husks. This device does not resemble dragon's teeth at all, instead featuring an orb of energy that turned the excavation team into husks with what appears to be a form of indoctrination, according to logs kept by the team, before it started creating more husks."

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Husk 

Good grief, the Catalyst is one majorly ****ed up guy... The more scared you are when you get impaled the quicker you get husked.


Unfortunately i'll have to chuck the airborn nanites down to speculation, because if they could indoctrinate that easily... Maybe they need to be injected directly into the blood to be effective, hence the impalement?

All this speculation makes my brain hurt.

The Aequitas reference is meant to convey that they don't need to be injected.

[KingZayd]

Opsrbest wrote...

4.Even if you did nopt play arrival...You have 3 yearsof Shepard being no and off contact with reaper tech, husk, reaper agents and reaper who can start the indoctrination progress.

You have Shepard in contact with Reaper tech and the influence of indoctrination for three years. That still doesn't explain anything. Shepard resists indoctrination for three years until he gets to the Citadel where TIM affects him the most is relying on space magic to explain how Shepard can be indoctrinated. The game and story of Shepard does not support long term exposure to Reaper tech since he dies at the start of ME2. You have to assert and in a large way that the effect of indoctrination persists through death or that TIM would have influenced the means of bringing Shepard back to incorperate indoctrination. Which goes against the entire premis of ME2 and TIMs statement that he wanted Shepard to be exactly who he was so no one could control him.

The only feesible means of indoctrination would occur from the later portions of ME2 and the Collector Base leading into Arrival and ME3. And since Arrival is not offical canon you have at most three years with a large gap where he is confiened and removed from Reaper influence of any sort.

Indoctrination can not occur prior to TIM and the Citadel or Harbinger and Shepard getting hit by his beam.

Until you get blasted near to death by a massive laser. Why wouldn't that make him more vulnerable and allow the indoctrination to take over?

His brain was supposedly brought back to be the just as it was before (somehow). Any taint in his brain would still be there. After all, there's no evidence that Shepard lost any memories is there?

Source for Arrival being non canon, while the other games are? And you have no reason to dismiss Arrival. If Arrival was there to be dismissed and contribute nothing, why make it at all? 

[jijeebo]

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Wait, when was it established that husks troops can indoctrinate, or collectors? I know something was mentioned about reapers using them to communicate with each other by amplifying signals or w/e... But I don't recall the game saying that husks can themselves cause indoctrination? I could be wrong, but i'd need proof.

Husks are oozing with nanides that indoctrinate.

You're going to have to entertain my stupid here for a bit, because it's been a while since I played. Care to point me in the direction of the part of the trilogy that explains this, because i'm drawing a blank... Again.


... I really need to get my copy of ME3 back so I can do another complete runthrough.

In ME1 you learn that the dragons teeth pump people full of reaper nanides for rapid indoctrination, adrenaline speeds up the flow of nanides, so everytime you kill a husk it releases those nanides into the air. They spread just by vicinity.

"An excavation team in the Minos Wasteland on the planet Aequitas found a Reaper artifact that creates advanced husks. This device does not resemble dragon's teeth at all, instead featuring an orb of energy that turned the excavation team into husks with what appears to be a form of indoctrination, according to logs kept by the team, before it started creating more husks."

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Husk 

Good grief, the Catalyst is one majorly ****ed up guy... The more scared you are when you get impaled the quicker you get husked.


Unfortunately i'll have to chuck the airborn nanites down to speculation, because if they could indoctrinate that easily... Maybe they need to be injected directly into the blood to be effective, hence the impalement?

All this speculation makes my brain hurt.

The Aequitas reference is meant to convey that they don't need to be injected.

LOL good lord my memory is atrocious, by the time i'd finished reading codex entries and wiki pages I sort of forgot about it completely... Whoops.

But no, I'd actually have to admit that, unless nanites only act to speed up the process or that artifact uses another method that we're just never told about, your conclusion seems to be pretty much spot on.


I'm still not anywhere being sold on the IT, but this business about them there nanites is entirely plausible.

[SubAstris]

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

You get Emails about how millions of people are just wondering into the reaper processing facilities on Earth.

And you know the precise amount of time that they have been in those facilities for to compare with Shepard?

PFfft! They wondered in BECAUSE they were indoctrinated.

And you know what they have been in the presence of and for how long presumably?

They were around reapers and husk for several months tops, Shepard has been fighting the reapers for 3 years.

But it depends on your proximity to the Reaper tech as well. Since we don't this, you can't make your claim

How many times did you walk by dragons teeth or kill a husk? And didn't we walk inside

Some times for a short amounts of periods.

Eden prime is full of them. Husk can indocrintate as well. You were also by sovergin in Eden prime, Virmire, and the battle of the citadel. Every collector can indoctrinate as well.The collector ship is reaper tech, the collector base is reaper tech and the base had a baby reaperin it as well.You also, walked inside a dead reaper. Then there's arrival.....
So yes, Shepard has lots of on and off contact.

And yet yes this still amounts to a few days, compared to 3 years of ME where he is either dead or on the Normandy

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Eden prime is full of them. Husk can indocrintate as well. You were also by sovergin in Eden prime, Virmire, and the battle of the citadel. Every collector can indoctrinate as well.The collector ship is reaper tech, the collector base is reaper tech and the base had a baby reaperin it as well.You also, walked inside a dead reaper. Then there's arrival.....
So yes, Shepard has lots of on and off contact.

And yet yes this still amounts to a few days, compared to 3 years of ME where he is either dead or on the Normandy

 You know that even husks can give off nanides that slowly lead to indoctrination right? how many has Shep killed? Like thousands?


"Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signal."

In ME1 you learn that the dragons teeth pump people full of reaper nanides for rapid indoctrination, adrenaline speeds up the flow of nanides, so everytime you kill a husk it releases those nanides into the air. They spread just by vicinity.

"An excavation team in the ] on the planet Aequitas found a Reaper artifact that creates advanced husks. This device does not resemble dragon's teeth at all, instead featuring an orb of energy that turned the excavation team into husks with what appears to be a form of indoctrination, according to logs kept by the team, before it started creating more husks."

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Husk  

Modifié par balance5050, 12 mai 2012 - 07:53 .

[balance5050]

Opsrbest wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...

4.Even if you did nopt play arrival...You have 3 yearsof Shepard being no and off contact with reaper tech, husk, reaper agents and reaper who can start the indoctrination progress.

You have Shepard in contact with Reaper tech and the influence of indoctrination for three years. That still doesn't explain anything. Shepard resists indoctrination for three years until he gets to the Citadel where TIM affects him the most is relying on space magic to explain how Shepard can be indoctrinated. The game and story of Shepard does not support long term exposure to Reaper tech since he dies at the start of ME2. You have to assert and in a large way that the effect of indoctrination persists through death or that TIM would have influenced the means of bringing Shepard back to incorperate indoctrination. Which goes against the entire premis of ME2 and TIMs statement that he wanted Shepard to be exactly who he was so no one could control him.

The only feesible means of indoctrination would occur from the later portions of ME2 and the Collector Base leading into Arrival and ME3. And since Arrival is not offical canon you have at most three years with a large gap where he is confiened and removed from Reaper influence of any sort.

Indoctrination can not occur prior to TIM and the Citadel or Harbinger and Shepard getting hit by his beam.

Until you get blasted near to death by a massive laser. Why wouldn't that make him more vulnerable and allow the indoctrination to take over?

If Shepard was under the effect of indoctrination prior to that point, being further pressed by indoctrination would mean that when Shepard faces the Catalyst he could not be able to destory the Reapers. A weakend physical or mental state would make Shepard become indoctrinated. It forces it by the nature of what happens. In order for Shepard to be able to destroy the Reapers and resist indoctrination two facts must be ignored. The first is that in a weakened state TIM was able to control Shepard physically, which if he was or is facing indoctrination he would be able to be prevented from destroying the Reapers. And second is that if Shepard is facing indoctrination he wouldn't be able to argue against TIM. He would agree, Saren and TIM both dictate that. In order for Shepard to resist indoctrination or an increased likely hood of success Shepard is either being rapidly indoctrinated or he has never been under the effcets of indoctrination. 

His brain was supposedly brought back to be the just as it was before (somehow). Any taint in his brain would still be there. After all, there's no evidence that Shepard lost any memories is there?

It is stated in ME2 that shepard suffered severe cellular damage from orbital entry and landing on whatever planet he did. And more to the fact that if indoctrination persists beyind death then it's just as plausible that any technology or study of an indoctrinated agent would be noticeable or capable of being determined. Which means that Vendetta would have been right and Shepard is not indoctrinated.

Source for Arrival being non canon, while the other games are? And you have no reason to dismiss Arrival. If Arrival was there to be dismissed and contribute nothing, why make it at all?

My source is Arrival. The intro and theory as to what happened to the Batarians is different for games that do not have Arrival DLC linked in the import. So I can dismiss it and claim it contributed nothing because when faced with the fact that the very intro of ME3 differs depending on it's existance. The shadowbroker DLC still has Liara as the Shadowbroker if you don't play that DLC. But their is a fine difference between the two of them. Liara is capable of becoming the Shadowbroker on her own. Unless you play Arrival Shepard has no interaction with Object Rho. Shepards involvement iwth Arrival is required where the Shdaowbroker DLC it isn't.

Why make any DLC for any game. To establish that something occured.

One cannot detect an inception with medical equipment, and that's all the reapers were doing. It was purely mental.

[balance5050]

Opsrbest wrote...

Indoctrination uses subliminal messages, ultra-infrasonci sound and electromagnetic fields. Last I checked in our own time we can use technology to determine the effects of all those things on the brain as they create anomolies.

So in order for it to all be mental with no physical contact Shepard can not be indoctrinated or under the effects prior to the Citadel. And still then it would kill him or make him a gabbering monkey.

Both Javik and Vigil talked about the indoctrinated sleeper agents that went unnoticed. So obviously it's not as cut and dry as you think.

[balance5050]

Opsrbest wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...

Indoctrination uses subliminal messages, ultra-infrasonci sound and electromagnetic fields. Last I checked in our own time we can use technology to determine the effects of all those things on the brain as they create anomolies.

So in order for it to all be mental with no physical contact Shepard can not be indoctrinated or under the effects prior to the Citadel. And still then it would kill him or make him a gabbering monkey.

Both Javik and Vigil talked about the indoctrinated sleeper agents that went unnoticed. So obviously it's not as cut and dry as you think.

It's not. Both Saren and TIM prove that. But it still doesn't chang ethe fact hta Shepard indoctrinated wouldn't be able to stand against the Reapers. TIM couldn't and niether could Saren.

So either Shepard is a Mary Sue of the highest order or he isn't indoctrinated.

Choosing to stay true to yourself and destroying the reaper is indicative of Shepard using his remarkably strong will to resist long enough to see things through to the end.

He was never indoctrinated, he was resisting it the whole time.

Shepards will is a character trait that is mentioned in all 3 games.

[dreman9999]

Opsrbest wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1. He mean TIM has reaper tech in him from the first contact war.

Thats pretty cool.

2.Indoctination is only absolute in the later stages. In the early stage it can be fought and resisted. 
*snip*

Note that Grayson resisted it for a week before they tried druging him.

In order for Shepard to be condsidered indoctrinated or going through the process of indoctrination it must be a constant absolute. Otherwise the effect of indoctrination is negligable to the story and breaks the plot. If the only absolute of indoctrination is in the final stages of it then Vendetta can't detect it in Kia Leng since there is no means to know what indoctrination is or the effects are. Which breaks the plot of ME3.

3. The event of the prothenes being betrade by reaper sleeper agents in their progects is not an assumtion. It's something clearly stated by Javik and Vendetta.

Assuming that is what prevented them from finishing and deploying the Crusible in that cycle. Javik doesn't know himself why the Crusible was never deployed and niether does Vendetta. Only that it was delayed.

4.Even if you did nopt play arrival...You have 3 yearsof Shepard being no and off contact with reaper tech, husk, reaper agents and reaper who can start the indoctrination progress.

You have Shepard in contact with Reaper tech and the influence of indoctrination for three years. That still doesn't explain anything. Shepard resists indoctrination for three years until he gets to the Citadel where TIM affects him the most is relying on space magic to explain how Shepard can be indoctrinated. The game and story of Shepard does not support long term exposure to Reaper tech since he dies at the start of ME2. You have to assert and in a large way that the effect of indoctrination persists through death or that TIM would have influenced the means of bringing Shepard back to incorperate indoctrination. Which goes against the entire premis of ME2 and TIMs statement that he wanted Shepard to be exactly who he was so no one could control him.

The only feesible means of indoctrination would occur from the later portions of ME2 and the Collector Base leading into Arrival and ME3. And since Arrival is not offical canon you have at most three years with a large gap where he is confiened and removed from Reaper influence of any sort.

Indoctrination can not occur prior to TIM and the Citadel or Harbinger and Shepard getting hit by his beam.

2. Indoctrinate comes is stages. It's never you are or you arn't
There 4 clear stages of it.
1. The start of it.
2. The time it starts influecing your thoughts.
3.The time it can contol your body.
4. The time it cut your forming from controling you hindmind.(The hindmind controls your body functions).

Based on the theory Shepard is edging on to stage 2 but still in stage 1.
3.Vendetta knows. He directly tells because you directly ask him in thessia.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2_NNsciiSE&feature=player_detailpage#t=218s
4.How does that not explaina any thing. It stated that the more you near reaper tech or indoctrination waves, the more your indoctrinated.That's enough of an explination ...
  
It's a snow ball effect. When it's start is not the question because know one know when subtle indoctriantion starts. It's the how that's important..

[dreman9999]

Opsrbest wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...

Indoctrination uses subliminal messages, ultra-infrasonci sound and electromagnetic fields. Last I checked in our own time we can use technology to determine the effects of all those things on the brain as they create anomolies.

So in order for it to all be mental with no physical contact Shepard can not be indoctrinated or under the effects prior to the Citadel. And still then it would kill him or make him a gabbering monkey.

Both Javik and Vigil talked about the indoctrinated sleeper agents that went unnoticed. So obviously it's not as cut and dry as you think.

It's not. Both Saren and TIM prove that. But it still doesn't chang ethe fact hta Shepard indoctrinated wouldn't be able to stand against the Reapers. TIM couldn't and niether could Saren.

So either Shepard is a Mary Sue of the highest order or he isn't indoctrinated.

  
Also, he is not full indoctrinated yet. That's Shepards saving grace. Indoctrination can be resisted in the early stages.

From ME:retribution

With each passing hour Grayson could feel the whispers growing stronger. More insistent. Yet eventhough Cerberus had implanted him with this horrific alien technology, his will was still his own. For now,he was still able to resist them. And he intended to hold them at bay for as long as was humanly possible.
“I thought you said the transformation would only take a week,” the Illusive Man said to Dr. Nuri.They were staring down at Grayson through the one-way window in the ceiling of his cell. Kai Lengwas lurking in the shadows over by the wall, standing so still he almost seemed to disappear in thedarkness.At the back of the room, the other members of Dr. Nuri’s team were monitoring the readings on thehovering holographic screens projecting up from the individual computer stations. They were tracking andrecording everything that happened inside the cell: Grayson’s breathing, heart rate, and brain activity;changes in body and air temperature; even minute fluctuations in electrical, gravitational, magnetic, anddark energy readings emanating from the room.“You told me to proceed with caution after we nearly lost him during the implantation,” she remindedhim.“I just want to make sure nothing’s gone wrong.”“The time line was only an estimate. Our research strongly suggests indoctrination and repurposingvaries greatly depending on the strength of the subject.”“He’s resisting,” the Illusive Man said appreciatively. “Fighting the Reapers.”“I’m amazed he’s held out this long,” Dr. Nuri admitted. “His focus and determination are far beyondanything I expected. I underestimated him in my initial calculations.”“People always underestimated him,” the Illusive Man replied. “That’s what made him such a good
(Page 55). 
agent.”“We could try to artificially accelerate the process,” Nuri offered. “But it would skew the results. Andit might send his body into shock again.”“It’s too much of a risk.”“Dust him up,” Kai Leng suggested, stepping forward to join the conversation. “We still have the redsand we grabbed on Omega.”“It could work,” Dr. Nuri said after a few moments of consideration. “Our testing shows narcoticshave no impact on the Reaper biotechnology. And it could weaken his focus. Make him more susceptibleto the indoctrination.”“Do it,” the Illusive Man ordered.
(Page 56). 

[ThinkIntegral]

balance5050 wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...

Indoctrination uses subliminal messages, ultra-infrasonci sound and electromagnetic fields. Last I checked in our own time we can use technology to determine the effects of all those things on the brain as they create anomolies.

So in order for it to all be mental with no physical contact Shepard can not be indoctrinated or under the effects prior to the Citadel. And still then it would kill him or make him a gabbering monkey.

Both Javik and Vigil talked about the indoctrinated sleeper agents that went unnoticed. So obviously it's not as cut and dry as you think.

It's not. Both Saren and TIM prove that. But it still doesn't chang ethe fact hta Shepard indoctrinated wouldn't be able to stand against the Reapers. TIM couldn't and niether could Saren.

So either Shepard is a Mary Sue of the highest order or he isn't indoctrinated.

Choosing to stay true to yourself and destroying the reaper is indicative of Shepard using his remarkably strong will to resist long enough to see things through to the end.

He was never indoctrinated, he was resisting it the whole time.

Shepards will is a character trait that is mentioned in all 3 games.

And to have that will, almost miraculously, fall apart at the very end? 

[balance5050]

ThinkIntegral wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...

Indoctrination uses subliminal messages, ultra-infrasonci sound and electromagnetic fields. Last I checked in our own time we can use technology to determine the effects of all those things on the brain as they create anomolies.

So in order for it to all be mental with no physical contact Shepard can not be indoctrinated or under the effects prior to the Citadel. And still then it would kill him or make him a gabbering monkey.

Both Javik and Vigil talked about the indoctrinated sleeper agents that went unnoticed. So obviously it's not as cut and dry as you think.

It's not. Both Saren and TIM prove that. But it still doesn't chang ethe fact hta Shepard indoctrinated wouldn't be able to stand against the Reapers. TIM couldn't and niether could Saren.

So either Shepard is a Mary Sue of the highest order or he isn't indoctrinated.

Choosing to stay true to yourself and destroying the reaper is indicative of Shepard using his remarkably strong will to resist long enough to see things through to the end.

He was never indoctrinated, he was resisting it the whole time.

Shepards will is a character trait that is mentioned in all 3 games.

And to have that will, almost miraculously, fall apart at the very end? 

Only if you don't destroy the reapers.

[ThinkIntegral]

balance5050 wrote...

ThinkIntegral wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Choosing to stay true to yourself and destroying the reaper is indicative of Shepard using his remarkably strong will to resist long enough to see things through to the end.

He was never indoctrinated, he was resisting it the whole time.

Shepards will is a character trait that is mentioned in all 3 games.

And to have that will, almost miraculously, fall apart at the very end? 

Only if you don't destroy the reapers.

Uh huh.  So you're telling me they forced a situation where
Shepard's strong will, that has allowed her to accomplish so many things
and right up to that moment gets indoctrinated?  Then leave you with an
ending where she still has a lot left to accomplish?

Even with BioWare saying it's the end of Shepard's story arc?  So who's gonna step up to the plate? Ashley because she's a new Spectre? Vega?  I'm not saying that can't happen, I'm questioning the likelihood, especially given how much respect BioWare allegedly has for the fans.

[dreman9999]

Opsrbest wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...2. Indoctrinate comes is stages. It's never you are or you arn't
There 4 clear stages of it.
1. The start of it.
2. The time it starts influecing your thoughts.
3.The time it can contol your body.
4. The time it cut your forming from controling you hindmind.(The hindmind controls your body functions).

Based on the theory Shepard is edging on to stage 2 but still in stage 1.

For three years Shepard has been in stage 1. Thats impressive.

3.Vendetta knows. He directly tells because you directly ask him in thessia.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2_NNsciiSE&feature=player_detailpage#t=218s

To quote Vendetta: We were sabotaged from within. A splinter group argued we should dominate the reapers not destroy them. Our order of battle was lost. Later we discover they were indoctrinated.

At no point in time does he say: We never deployed the Crusible because of a splinter group. He says that they lost control because of it. But never why the Crusible was never deployed. You can assume that the splinter group took control of the Crusible you can assume lots of things.

4.How does that not explaina any thing. It stated that the more you near reaper tech or indoctrination waves, the more your indoctrinated.That's enough of an explination ...
  
It's a snow ball effect. When it's start is not the question because know one know when subtle indoctriantion starts. It's the how that's important..

If it's a snowball effect like any other snowball effect why does it take someone over 3 years to become influenced by Reaper Tech so long to succumb to any level of effect?
You state yourself there are four levels of indoctrination.
1. The start of it
2. The time it start influencing your thoughts (which Shepard never experiences in the entire series)
3. The time it controls your actions (which Shepard only experienced through TIM)
4. You become a husk.

So explain how the whisper in Shepards head doesn't and hasn't exist for 3 years until the Citadel and the Crusible? An effect so strong that in direct proximity of Sovereign he takes control of you. All indoctrination in the series points to the subject not being able destroy or take action against the Reapers, it all results in a form of surrender to the Reapers. So how is Shepard if indoctrinated or exposed to indoctrination not effected for three years until the magical moments on the citadel. Shepard is step one, evolving into step two. Yet TIM comes along and push's him right into step three.
It doesn't. Three years of constant proximity to Reapers'R'us and he is only in stage one.

I can see why you guys require indoctrination to persist through death. Its the only way to explain Shepard being in stage one for three years without proving to yourselves that the arguement is invalid and flawed beacuse it infers more than it presents. I mean it's not like Shepard could be in stage one without being around for three years. Object Rho and Indoctrination throguh death. The real facts behind IDT.

Please.

1. TIM has been in stage one for over 20 YEARS.
2.Shepard:What happe to the cruscible in your time...Why did it not deploy?

Vedetta:
We were sabotaged from within. A splinter group argued we should dominate the reapers not destroy them. Our order of battle was lost. Later we discover they were indoctrinated. 

That means the in fight stopped it from being used. It was also never finished.
3.
http://masseffect.wi...#Indoctrination 
 Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years. "

Modifié par dreman9999, 14 mai 2012 - 04:05 .

[dreman9999]

Opsrbest wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...

Indoctrination uses subliminal messages, ultra-infrasonci sound and electromagnetic fields. Last I checked in our own time we can use technology to determine the effects of all those things on the brain as they create anomolies.

So in order for it to all be mental with no physical contact Shepard can not be indoctrinated or under the effects prior to the Citadel. And still then it would kill him or make him a gabbering monkey.

Both Javik and Vigil talked about the indoctrinated sleeper agents that went unnoticed. So obviously it's not as cut and dry as you think.

It's not. Both Saren and TIM prove that. But it still doesn't chang ethe fact hta Shepard indoctrinated wouldn't be able to stand against the Reapers. TIM couldn't and niether could Saren.

So either Shepard is a Mary Sue of the highest order or he isn't indoctrinated.

Choosing to stay true to yourself and destroying the reaper is indicative of Shepard using his remarkably strong will to resist long enough to see things through to the end.

He was never indoctrinated, he was resisting it the whole time.

Shepards will is a character trait that is mentioned in all 3 games.

Threeeeeeeeeeeee years of indoctrination, resisted. Nuked by a reaper, resisted. Incapacitated on the ground before you meet the Catalyst, resisted. COuntless Reaper forces encountered and direct exposes to Reapers and Reaper tech, resisted.

Indoctrinatin for Shepard must be like shooting Pyjaks for a Krogan.

Mary Sue much. He can have the will power of ......... oh wait we see him pout after his loss to Kia Leng on Thessia, after every dream where he talks about missing the dead, and the number of other times when pouty Shepard makes an apperance.

http://masseffect.wi...#Indoctrination 
 Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years. "

[ThinkIntegral]

Wow that's a crappy way to end the main protagonist's story dreman999; have him be totally strong willed and accomplish amazing feats all just to succumb at the very end. Not to mention that's a real crap way to end the storyline, leave all the main goals unfinished.

Modifié par ThinkIntegral, 14 mai 2012 - 08:49 .

[nightcobra]

Opsrbest wrote...

Threeeeeeeeeeeee years of indoctrination, resisted. Nuked by a reaper, resisted. Incapacitated on the ground before you meet the Catalyst, resisted. COuntless Reaper forces encountered and direct exposes to Reapers and Reaper tech, resisted.

Indoctrinatin for Shepard must be like shooting Pyjaks for a Krogan.

Mary Sue much. He can have the will power of ......... oh wait we see him pout after his loss to Kia Leng on Thessia, after every dream where he talks about missing the dead, and the number of other times when pouty Shepard makes an apperance.

even with all that there would have to be a breaking point, for shepard this was it.
also, if this was a mental struggle then consider anderson and TIM at the end being the 2 parts of his psyche.
anderson being the normal side, resisting indocrination and TIM representing the side that is falling to indocrination.
at the end of this struggle both sides of his psyche are killed, leaving shepard in the weakest mental state he's ever been and highly suggestible to  whatever is put in front of him.
then it's up to you...to attempt to  resist yet again or fall to indocrination.


that's the way i see it at least.

[jasonxxsatanna]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Opsrbest wrote...

Threeeeeeeeeeeee years of indoctrination, resisted. Nuked by a reaper, resisted. Incapacitated on the ground before you meet the Catalyst, resisted. COuntless Reaper forces encountered and direct exposes to Reapers and Reaper tech, resisted.

Indoctrinatin for Shepard must be like shooting Pyjaks for a Krogan.

Mary Sue much. He can have the will power of ......... oh wait we see him pout after his loss to Kia Leng on Thessia, after every dream where he talks about missing the dead, and the number of other times when pouty Shepard makes an apperance.

even with all that there would have to be a breaking point, for shepard this was it.
also, if this was a mental struggle then consider anderson and TIM at the end being the 2 parts of his psyche.
anderson being the normal side, resisting indocrination and TIM representing the side that is falling to indocrination.
at the end of this struggle both sides of his psyche are killed, leaving shepard in the weakest mental state he's ever been and highly suggestible to  whatever is put in front of him.
then it's up to you...to attempt to  resist yet again or fall to indocrination.


that's the way i see it at least.

I agree with you . . .can't understand why people don't understand this