867 réponses à ce sujet

[Raiil]

In order for me to believe that IT was true, I'd have to have the following satisfactorily explained:

1. Proof that Indoc is sufficiently explained in Mass Effect 3 in a manner that the layman could understand. Because the game was marketed partially towards new players, BioWare would need to ensure that people just being introduced to the series could reasonably grasp what was going on. 'Well it happened in (this other media)' doesn't help people who aren't familiar with the other games, books, and comics in the series. BioWare was fairly good about explaining the other aspects of the series in-game, I have no reason to believe that Indoc would be any different. This means evidence from previous games and comics/books. unless reasonably well explained in game, would have to removed from the equation.


2. Proof that goes beyond visuals and auditory evidence that requires a program to pick apart. Going back to the layman idea, putting in clues a large number of people wouldn't reasonably be able to see or hear isn't a great idea. Picking up on clues that require HD, incredibly good sound and a large screen to see at a casual look doesn't bode well IMHO.


3. Explain how BioWare intended to sell us a real ending when there are places that don't have access to DLC, either because of a lack of internet connection or they can't purchase it. That means BioWare deliberately chose to make an incomplete game in full knowledge that not everyone would be able to access it.


4. Explain reasonably why God Child is lying and not just possibly wrong in their assessment (You'll die too, yet Shepard lives). Being wrong doesn't necessarily make you a liar, just that you were incorrect. Seeing as Shepard makes a living of defying the odds, it's not unreasonable to think that God Child was merely incorrect.


There are some others, but lunch is on the table so I'll get back to it later.

[jasonxxsatanna]

I don't know if many ppl read the app "The final hours of Mass Effect 3" but in the interview with Casey Hudson its said that towards the end of ME3 the player was to play as an indoctrinated Shep but the controls were to hard to work out so the dev's scrapped it. . . but that was about the controls it never said that they took out the story plot of IT . . . .
So it only makes since to me that IT explains alot of what was going on in the end, and for those who don't think its IT , what do you make of the whole nightmare parts of the game?
Why would it be such a heavy part of the story if it wasn't trying to place IT as part of the plot

[jijeebo]

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...


Again, it shows that TIM is able to control Shepard and Anderson, not that Shepard is becoming indoctrinated.

And Benezia and Saren prove my point. they both admit that they were made to think differently, that Sovereign changed thier point of view rather than controlling their movements. TIM does not do this, he just flat out takes control of your body away from you in an instant.

1.As I said over and over agein. It shown that cerberus has to implant a perosn of the person has to have a form of indoctriantion in order for them to control people with indoctrination. That is exactly how reaper indoctrination works. If TIM can control Shepard, that means the foundation of indoctrinatin is in Shepard as well as Anderson. That  would mean  both Shepard and Anderson is in the prosecc of indoctrination.

This is just going in circles, what TIM does to Shep and Anderson is different from what what the reapers do... Heck what TIM does to Shep and Anderson is different from what he did to his own troops, his shiny new implants obviously mean he can just flat out control a person.

2. At the end with Benzia did not want to fight Shepard, She was forced to. At the end Saren want to stop the reaper if you convinve him, he could not. If you didn't have the point to convince him to kill himself, he is force to Fight you.
The reaper can make you do what you don't want to do.

But they do it by convincing you that you DO want to do it. Benezia and Saren both had thier moments of clarity, but then they flipped like a light switch and turned on you because the reaper influence warped their thoughts and convinced made them see you as the enemy... This is mental control, NOT physical control.

Modifié par jijeebo, 10 mai 2012 - 05:02 .

[Gorkan86]

dreman9999 wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

rocketsauce v2 wrote...


The moment he shows up at the citadel at the end is when all the weird red stuff shows up on the screen. It is TIM controling you with his shiny new implants

His shiny new implants that were supposed to let him control Reapers?

Yet he controls Anderson in this scene too...

Is Anderson indoctrinated?

Anderson has been in constant contact with reapers, reaper tech ,and husk(all of which can cause indoctriantion) while on earth.... That how TIM is controling Anderson.

You forgot the Citadel - reaper structure.

[jijeebo]

jasonxxsatanna wrote...

I don't know if many ppl read the app "The final hours of Mass Effect 3" but in the interview with Casey Hudson its said that towards the end of ME3 the player was to play as an indoctrinated Shep but the controls were to hard to work out so the dev's scrapped it. . . but that was about the controls it never said that they took out the story plot of IT . . . .
So it only makes since to me that IT explains alot of what was going on in the end, and for those who don't think its IT , what do you make of the whole nightmare parts of the game?
Why would it be such a heavy part of the story if it wasn't trying to place IT as part of the plot

This app mentions a Shepard that is under reaper control, not a Shepard that is indoctrinated. The distinction was obviously made for a reason.

The dreams are Bioware showing us Shepards survivors guilt... Because they were determined to make everyone care immensely about this stupid dead kid.

[jijeebo]

Gorkan86 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

rocketsauce v2 wrote...


The moment he shows up at the citadel at the end is when all the weird red stuff shows up on the screen. It is TIM controling you with his shiny new implants

His shiny new implants that were supposed to let him control Reapers?

Yet he controls Anderson in this scene too...

Is Anderson indoctrinated?

Anderson has been in constant contact with reapers, reaper tech ,and husk(all of which can cause indoctriantion) while on earth.... That how TIM is controling Anderson.

You forgot the Citadel - reaper structure.

Thats a pretty spectacular plot hole there...

If the Citadel is reaper tech, why didn't it just indoctrinate everyone who was on board and use them to open the relay and let Sovereign in?

Poor Saren really is make completely redundant by ME3, isn't he?

[4stringwizard]

As far as indoctrination goes, I'm not saying it's truth. However, you can't deny there are a LOT of things that seem to point in that direction.

1. Why is nobody else aware of vent boy's presence? How does he appear to Shepard in the vent and then suddenly vanish?
2. Why is Shepard, who is used to sacrificing lives, suddenly so haunted by this one kid that it causes him nightmares?
3. Why does the final confrontation with TIM have this dream-like quality in certain parts?
4. Why do Shepard's nightmares share so much in common with symptoms of Reaper indoctrination?
5. Finally, why, if the EMS is high enough, is Shepard shown breathing at the end of "destroy" when the Star Brat claimed (or at least heavily implied) that it would kill Shepard?

There are lots of holes in the story, and IT does a great job of filling in those holes. I guess we won't know for sure until summer.

[dreman9999]

Valentia X wrote...

In order for me to believe that IT was true, I'd have to have the following satisfactorily explained:

1. Proof that Indoc is sufficiently explained in Mass Effect 3 in a manner that the layman could understand. Because the game was marketed partially towards new players, BioWare would need to ensure that people just being introduced to the series could reasonably grasp what was going on. 'Well it happened in (this other media)' doesn't help people who aren't familiar with the other games, books, and comics in the series. BioWare was fairly good about explaining the other aspects of the series in-game, I have no reason to believe that Indoc would be any different. This means evidence from previous games and comics/books. unless reasonably well explained in game, would have to removed from the equation.


2. Proof that goes beyond visuals and auditory evidence that requires a program to pick apart. Going back to the layman idea, putting in clues a large number of people wouldn't reasonably be able to see or hear isn't a great idea. Picking up on clues that require HD, incredibly good sound and a large screen to see at a casual look doesn't bode well IMHO.


3. Explain how BioWare intended to sell us a real ending when there are places that don't have access to DLC, either because of a lack of internet connection or they can't purchase it. That means BioWare deliberately chose to make an incomplete game in full knowledge that not everyone would be able to access it.


4. Explain reasonably why God Child is lying and not just possibly wrong in their assessment (You'll die too, yet Shepard lives). Being wrong doesn't necessarily make you a liar, just that you were incorrect. Seeing as Shepard makes a living of defying the odds, it's not unreasonable to think that God Child was merely incorrect.


There are some others, but lunch is on the table so I'll get back to it later.

1.Codex...It's all in the codex.
2.
http://social.biowar...ex/9727423/2024 
 
3.Please, does any company now ever consider places that have no internet conction? These are the same people who made dlc that know one with out internet conection can play.
4.Becuse he doesn't want Shepard to kill him and the reapers. That's an easy awnser.

[dreman9999]

Gorkan86 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

rocketsauce v2 wrote...


The moment he shows up at the citadel at the end is when all the weird red stuff shows up on the screen. It is TIM controling you with his shiny new implants

His shiny new implants that were supposed to let him control Reapers?

Yet he controls Anderson in this scene too...

Is Anderson indoctrinated?

Anderson has been in constant contact with reapers, reaper tech ,and husk(all of which can cause indoctriantion) while on earth.... That how TIM is controling Anderson.

You forgot the Citadel - reaper structure.

That's a point toward, Shep and Anderson being in the process of indcortinationm, I hope you know.

Modifié par dreman9999, 10 mai 2012 - 05:18 .

[dreman9999]

jijeebo wrote...

jasonxxsatanna wrote...

I don't know if many ppl read the app "The final hours of Mass Effect 3" but in the interview with Casey Hudson its said that towards the end of ME3 the player was to play as an indoctrinated Shep but the controls were to hard to work out so the dev's scrapped it. . . but that was about the controls it never said that they took out the story plot of IT . . . .
So it only makes since to me that IT explains alot of what was going on in the end, and for those who don't think its IT , what do you make of the whole nightmare parts of the game?
Why would it be such a heavy part of the story if it wasn't trying to place IT as part of the plot

This app mentions a Shepard that is under reaper control, not a Shepard that is indoctrinated. The distinction was obviously made for a reason.

The dreams are Bioware showing us Shepards survivors guilt... Because they were determined to make everyone care immensely about this stupid dead kid.

Oh, my god..Do you even know what you are saying? The reapers control people only with indoctrination. How can Shepard be under reaper control with out being indoctrinated?

[SoloPala]

dreman9999 wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

BigGuy28 wrote...

I didn't see a single thing in the game indicating Shepard was being indoctrinated. The herp derp theory is just people being unable to accept that the endings really are just that terrible. So as a defensive mechanism they came up with a theory that makes the endings more palatable to them. Funny thing is, the herp derp theory is worse than the actual endings.

Explain the last scene with TIM then...How is he controling Shepard if Shepard is not in the process of indoctriantion?

TIM was succesful in controlling reaper tech, and has essentially become a human reaper, and when i close proximity hes able to use his reaper control to reach out and force his will on others.

But not even Sovergin could control people instatly. If he could why did he do so on virmire,or the batle of the citadel. Also, why didn't harbinger do this to Shepard after he shot him down? Their is no instant indoctrination like this.

You don't actually know that, you know indoctrination takes time, direct control however is up in the air, its also risky as seen when Sovereign takes direct control of Saren and when saren goes down Sovereigns shields go down as well.  Sure the codex says thats fixed but where else in the universe does that ever happen?  Sure Harbinger does it allt he time in ME2, but hes out in dark space how does the codex even know if its fixed.  Would you wanna be the one to test that in the middle of the largest battle in the histoy of the galaxy?  

Also for all Harbinger knows he evaporated shepard with that beam.

Modifié par SoloPala, 10 mai 2012 - 05:20 .

[Raiil]

1. I don't find Indoc to be sufficently explained in the Codex, or in game, for the average layman to understand, at least as far as I remember. And no, I don't think the average newcomer is stupid, either.

2. Er, I said evidence that don't require you to actually pick apart things that level- essentially, something that can be easily viewed and heard on screen. Otherwise, anyone other than PC players or people who come on the forums are boned, and we are a tiny minority in terms of the gaming populace.

3. Yes, they do, because they make a part of the segment of paying customers. You don't purposefully ignore potential customers. That's why DLC tends to be either stand-alone or non-essential to the main game plot.


4. That's not an explanation with any sort of back up information, that's you positing an idea without existing proof.

[jijeebo]

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

jasonxxsatanna wrote...

I don't know if many ppl read the app "The final hours of Mass Effect 3" but in the interview with Casey Hudson its said that towards the end of ME3 the player was to play as an indoctrinated Shep but the controls were to hard to work out so the dev's scrapped it. . . but that was about the controls it never said that they took out the story plot of IT . . . .
So it only makes since to me that IT explains alot of what was going on in the end, and for those who don't think its IT , what do you make of the whole nightmare parts of the game?
Why would it be such a heavy part of the story if it wasn't trying to place IT as part of the plot

This app mentions a Shepard that is under reaper control, not a Shepard that is indoctrinated. The distinction was obviously made for a reason.

The dreams are Bioware showing us Shepards survivors guilt... Because they were determined to make everyone care immensely about this stupid dead kid.

Oh, my god..Do you even know what you are saying? The reapers control people only with indoctrination. How can Shepard be under reaper control with out being indoctrinated?

I don't know, and we never will because Bioware didn't implement it into the game.

[The Spamming Troll]

didnt shepard shoot anderson because shepard is indoctrinated?

or was that TIM controlling shep through some weird mod built in from the lazarous project?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 10 mai 2012 - 05:20 .

[jijeebo]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

didnt shepard shoot anderson because shepard is indoctrinated?

or was that TIM controlling shep through some weird mod built in from the lazarous project?

TIM was controlling Shepard using his shiny Sanctuary implants.

If Miranda had gotten her way, however, your second statement would have been 100% plausible.

[dreman9999]

SoloPala wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

BigGuy28 wrote...

I didn't see a single thing in the game indicating Shepard was being indoctrinated. The herp derp theory is just people being unable to accept that the endings really are just that terrible. So as a defensive mechanism they came up with a theory that makes the endings more palatable to them. Funny thing is, the herp derp theory is worse than the actual endings.

Explain the last scene with TIM then...How is he controling Shepard if Shepard is not in the process of indoctriantion?

TIM was succesful in controlling reaper tech, and has essentially become a human reaper, and when i close proximity hes able to use his reaper control to reach out and force his will on others.

But not even Sovergin could control people instatly. If he could why did he do so on virmire,or the batle of the citadel. Also, why didn't harbinger do this to Shepard after he shot him down? Their is no instant indoctrination like this.

You don't actually know that, you know indoctrination takes time, direct control however is up in the air, its also risky as seen when Sovereign takes direct control of Saren and when saren goes down Sovereigns shields go down as well.  Sure the codex says thats fixed but where else in the universe does that ever happen?  Sure Harbinger does it allt he time in ME2, but hes out in dark space how does the codex even know if its fixed.  Would you wanna be the one to test that in the middle of the largest battle in the histoy of the galaxy?  

Also for all Harbinger knows he evaporated shepard with that beam.

Yes, I do. I have the entire plaot of ME to back me....Even ME3. There reapers every where and not one did they instatly put someone under indoctrination like you think TIM did. You need to show proof of it first before using this assumption.

[dreman9999]

jijeebo wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

didnt shepard shoot anderson because shepard is indoctrinated?

or was that TIM controlling shep through some weird mod built in from the lazarous project?

TIM was controlling Shepard using his shiny Sanctuary implants.

Which isreaper tech...Use to control Cerberus troops and Husk. So it's still indoctriantion.

[fr33stylez]

TSA_383 wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

When did Shepard become indoctrinated?

Why did Shepard's thought process throughout any of the games indicate any hints on indoctrination?

Why aren't any of the squadmates showing signs either?

Why don't Shepard's closest allies notice signs of indoctrination

Really?
REALLY?

That quote didn't answer any of my questions.

I'm going to re-post something I posted in the IT thread, which I received no response.

My understanding of Indoctrinaion throughout the trilogy is that there is evidence of a progression in the individual being indoctrinated. This is true in the logs we hear from Dr. Kenson, from the Cerberus employees on the derelict Reaper, and so on.

It is true we must reject Object Rho from Arrival as a reason for indoctrination (BW's fault), beause this 'indoctrination' occurs in ME3 even if Shepard never came into contact with Object Rho (i.e. did not play Arrival DLC). I also haven't seen any characters in ME that were indoctrinated due to 'acute' exposure to Reaper/Reaper artifacts. Shepard has never been in constant exposure with a Reaper/Reaper artifact as I don't even see this would lead to indoctrination. 

1) If Shepard is the only member of his crew that was indoctrinated, one would expect there would be clues in the things Shepard says in the course of ME2/ME3 which would suggest Shepard being influenced. There is no questioning the Reaper's role or motives like every person we've seen indoctrinated in the ME series does. Even up until the conversation with TIM, Shepard have NEVER wavered in his resolve to destroy the Reapers, not even one doubt. 

1a) If the argument is we couldn't see these subtle changes in Shepard's beliefs because we are playing in his perspective (technically that's not true, it's third-person) one could still wonder why none of the dozen people on your ship that are familiar with indoctrination since didn't notice anything strange about what Shepard says or does. telling Shepard "you're stressed and tired" isn't proof of indoctrination.

2) If fighting Collectors, being in a Collector base, talking to Soverign on Vimire, going on the Derelict Reaper is enough to cause Indoctrination as many hae claimed, there is no reason why others on your team who have been by your side since ME1 (Tali, Garrus, etc.) wouldn't have suffered the same indoctrination.

The problem with IT lies that there is no evidence of the progression to indoctrination in Shepard's thoughts and beliefs anywhere  in the trilogy leading to the ending. If anything, they get stronger during the course of the series.

Modifié par fr33stylez, 10 mai 2012 - 05:25 .

[dreman9999]

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

jasonxxsatanna wrote...

I don't know if many ppl read the app "The final hours of Mass Effect 3" but in the interview with Casey Hudson its said that towards the end of ME3 the player was to play as an indoctrinated Shep but the controls were to hard to work out so the dev's scrapped it. . . but that was about the controls it never said that they took out the story plot of IT . . . .
So it only makes since to me that IT explains alot of what was going on in the end, and for those who don't think its IT , what do you make of the whole nightmare parts of the game?
Why would it be such a heavy part of the story if it wasn't trying to place IT as part of the plot

This app mentions a Shepard that is under reaper control, not a Shepard that is indoctrinated. The distinction was obviously made for a reason.

The dreams are Bioware showing us Shepards survivors guilt... Because they were determined to make everyone care immensely about this stupid dead kid.

Oh, my god..Do you even know what you are saying? The reapers control people only with indoctrination. How can Shepard be under reaper control with out being indoctrinated?

I don't know, and we never will because Bioware didn't implement it into the game.

No, we know because they took the time to explain it in the entire plot of ME. The reaper can't control people with out indoctriantion. They made that very clear.

[Gorkan86]

dreman9999 wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

Thorn Harvestar wrote...

rocketsauce v2 wrote...


The moment he shows up at the citadel at the end is when all the weird red stuff shows up on the screen. It is TIM controling you with his shiny new implants

His shiny new implants that were supposed to let him control Reapers?

Yet he controls Anderson in this scene too...

Is Anderson indoctrinated?

Anderson has been in constant contact with reapers, reaper tech ,and husk(all of which can cause indoctriantion) while on earth.... That how TIM is controling Anderson.

You forgot the Citadel - reaper structure.

That's a point toward, Shep and Anderson being in the process of indcortinationm, I hope you know.

A huge crowd of people, merchants, magnates, wealthy people, chancellors, generals, mercenaries, our familiar characters, and favorite characters reside on the Citadel a huge amount of time. Why did not anyone of them indoctrinated so far? Why is the C-sec does not indoctrinated?

Kayden or Ashely, Udine, Anderson, Consort, Ashley, Garrus, Thane and others .... all indoctrinated. They been in constant contact with reapers, reaper tech, husks, marauders, indoc devices.  (Many players have favorite characters, which they take with them on the mission as often as possible.)

[dreman9999]

fr33stylez wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

When did Shepard become indoctrinated?

Why did Shepard's thought process throughout any of the games indicate any hints on indoctrination?

Why aren't any of the squadmates showing signs either?

Why don't Shepard's closest allies notice signs of indoctrination

Really?
REALLY?

That quote didn't answer any of my questions.

I'm going to re-post something I posted in the IT thread, which I received no response.

My understanding of Indoctrinaion throughout the trilogy is that there is evidence of a progression in the individual being indoctrinated. This is true in the logs we hear from Dr. Kenson, from the Cerberus employees on the derelict Reaper, and so on.

It is true we must reject Object Rho from Arrival as a reason for indoctrination (BW's fault), beause this 'indoctrination' occurs in ME3 even if Shepard never came into contact with Object Rho (i.e. did not play Arrival DLC). I also haven't seen any characters in ME that were indoctrinated due to 'acute' exposure to Reaper/Reaper artifacts. Shepard has never been in constant exposure with a Reaper/Reaper artifact as I don't even see this would lead to indoctrination. 

1) If Shepard is the only member of his crew that was indoctrinated, one would expect there would be clues in the things Shepard says in the course of ME2/ME3 which would suggest Shepard being influenced. There is no questioning the Reaper's role or motives like every person we've seen indoctrinated in the ME series does. Even up until the conversation with TIM, Shepard have NEVER wavered in his resolve to destroy the Reapers, not even one doubt. 

1a) If the argument is we couldn't see these subtle changes in Shepard's beliefs because we are playing in his perspective (technically that's not true, it's third-person) one could still wonder why none of the dozen people on your ship that are familiar with indoctrination since didn't notice anything strange about what Shepard says or does. telling Shepard "you're stressed and tired" isn't proof of indoctrination.

2) If fighting Collectors, being in a Collector base, talking to Soverign on Vimire, going on the Derelict Reaper is enough to cause Indoctrination as many hae claimed, there is no reason why others on your team who have been by your side since ME1 (Tali, Garrus, etc.) wouldn't have suffered the same indoctrination.

The problem with IT lies that there is no evidence of the progression to indoctrination in Shepard's thoughts and beliefs anywhere  in the trilogy leading to the ending. If anything, they get stronger during the course of the series.

You missing two things.
1.Shepardis in the process of indoctriation.
2. There are no signs of indoctriation till it;s too late.
 
3. It stacked over time. Shepard out of everyone on the ship has the most time near reaper tech. That's from the time he land on eden prime in ME1 to the end of ME3. Everyone in you ME2 team was not on eden prime. There is no guartees that Garrus or Tali go on the last mission with you. Ashley or Kaiden is not with you in ME2. You can't guarrentee Garrus is withyou on every mission and Tali comes on board are the collector ship mission. No one in the ship has any where near the leel of exposer to reaper tech Shepard has.

Modifié par dreman9999, 10 mai 2012 - 05:33 .

[jijeebo]

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

didnt shepard shoot anderson because shepard is indoctrinated?

or was that TIM controlling shep through some weird mod built in from the lazarous project?

TIM was controlling Shepard using his shiny Sanctuary implants.

Which isreaper tech...Use to control Cerberus troops and Husk. So it's still indoctriantion.

Just because it uses the same tech doesn't mean its the same result.

[SoloPala]

dreman9999 wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

BigGuy28 wrote...

I didn't see a single thing in the game indicating Shepard was being indoctrinated. The herp derp theory is just people being unable to accept that the endings really are just that terrible. So as a defensive mechanism they came up with a theory that makes the endings more palatable to them. Funny thing is, the herp derp theory is worse than the actual endings.

Explain the last scene with TIM then...How is he controling Shepard if Shepard is not in the process of indoctriantion?

TIM was succesful in controlling reaper tech, and has essentially become a human reaper, and when i close proximity hes able to use his reaper control to reach out and force his will on others.

But not even Sovergin could control people instatly. If he could why did he do so on virmire,or the batle of the citadel. Also, why didn't harbinger do this to Shepard after he shot him down? Their is no instant indoctrination like this.

You don't actually know that, you know indoctrination takes time, direct control however is up in the air, its also risky as seen when Sovereign takes direct control of Saren and when saren goes down Sovereigns shields go down as well.  Sure the codex says thats fixed but where else in the universe does that ever happen?  Sure Harbinger does it allt he time in ME2, but hes out in dark space how does the codex even know if its fixed.  Would you wanna be the one to test that in the middle of the largest battle in the histoy of the galaxy?  

Also for all Harbinger knows he evaporated shepard with that beam.

Yes, I do. I have the entire plaot of ME to back me....Even ME3. There reapers every where and not one did they instatly put someone under indoctrination like you think TIM did. You need to show proof of it first before using this assumption.

Direct control is not indoctination.

[Krushiev01]

Haven't been around in a while, but I just finished watching this and thought I'd share... Maybe I'm just blind, but I haven't seen it posted anywhere.

http://www.youtube.c...ayer_embedded#!

I wasn't really one who supported Indoc Theory, but this vid (watch out, it's loooooong) has me leaning towards it.

Modifié par Krushiev01, 10 mai 2012 - 05:30 .

[jijeebo]

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

jasonxxsatanna wrote...

I don't know if many ppl read the app "The final hours of Mass Effect 3" but in the interview with Casey Hudson its said that towards the end of ME3 the player was to play as an indoctrinated Shep but the controls were to hard to work out so the dev's scrapped it. . . but that was about the controls it never said that they took out the story plot of IT . . . .
So it only makes since to me that IT explains alot of what was going on in the end, and for those who don't think its IT , what do you make of the whole nightmare parts of the game?
Why would it be such a heavy part of the story if it wasn't trying to place IT as part of the plot

This app mentions a Shepard that is under reaper control, not a Shepard that is indoctrinated. The distinction was obviously made for a reason.

The dreams are Bioware showing us Shepards survivors guilt... Because they were determined to make everyone care immensely about this stupid dead kid.

Oh, my god..Do you even know what you are saying? The reapers control people only with indoctrination. How can Shepard be under reaper control with out being indoctrinated?

I don't know, and we never will because Bioware didn't implement it into the game.

No, we know because they took the time to explain it in the entire plot of ME. The reaper can't control people with out indoctriantion. They made that very clear.

They also told us that the reapers were "beyond our comprehension" and built them up as super-intelligent beings... All to turn round in the last 5 minutes and tell us that they are actually the opposite, being tools for the catalyst. Plot's develop, and enemy capabilities change.