867 réponses à ce sujet

[fr33stylez]

dreman9999 wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

When did Shepard become indoctrinated?

Why did Shepard's thought process throughout any of the games indicate any hints on indoctrination?

Why aren't any of the squadmates showing signs either?

Why don't Shepard's closest allies notice signs of indoctrination

Really?
REALLY?

That quote didn't answer any of my questions.

I'm going to re-post something I posted in the IT thread, which I received no response.

My understanding of Indoctrinaion throughout the trilogy is that there is evidence of a progression in the individual being indoctrinated. This is true in the logs we hear from Dr. Kenson, from the Cerberus employees on the derelict Reaper, and so on.

It is true we must reject Object Rho from Arrival as a reason for indoctrination (BW's fault), beause this 'indoctrination' occurs in ME3 even if Shepard never came into contact with Object Rho (i.e. did not play Arrival DLC). I also haven't seen any characters in ME that were indoctrinated due to 'acute' exposure to Reaper/Reaper artifacts. Shepard has never been in constant exposure with a Reaper/Reaper artifact as I don't even see this would lead to indoctrination. 

1) If Shepard is the only member of his crew that was indoctrinated, one would expect there would be clues in the things Shepard says in the course of ME2/ME3 which would suggest Shepard being influenced. There is no questioning the Reaper's role or motives like every person we've seen indoctrinated in the ME series does. Even up until the conversation with TIM, Shepard have NEVER wavered in his resolve to destroy the Reapers, not even one doubt. 

1a) If the argument is we couldn't see these subtle changes in Shepard's beliefs because we are playing in his perspective (technically that's not true, it's third-person) one could still wonder why none of the dozen people on your ship that are familiar with indoctrination since didn't notice anything strange about what Shepard says or does. telling Shepard "you're stressed and tired" isn't proof of indoctrination.

2) If fighting Collectors, being in a Collector base, talking to Soverign on Vimire, going on the Derelict Reaper is enough to cause Indoctrination as many hae claimed, there is no reason why others on your team who have been by your side since ME1 (Tali, Garrus, etc.) wouldn't have suffered the same indoctrination.

The problem with IT lies that there is no evidence of the progression to indoctrination in Shepard's thoughts and beliefs anywhere  in the trilogy leading to the ending. If anything, they get stronger during the course of the series.

You missing two things.
1.Shepardis in the process of indoctriation.
2. There are no signs of indoctriation till it;s too late.
 

What do you mean "there are no signs of indoctrination till it's too late"? Too late for what? There are ALWAYS signs of indoctrination, like I said this is evidence in the entire series through inidivuals who are indoctrinated, and in the audio logs of people undergoing indoctrination.

Also, WHY is Shepard fighting indoctrination ? Since when? What caused it? Indoctrination is not something that happens by a switch, so when did indoctrination begin?

Modifié par fr33stylez, 10 mai 2012 - 05:34 .

[Gorkan86]

dreman9999 wrote...

2. There are no signs of indoctriation till it;s too late.

When it become too late for Saren?

[dreman9999]

SoloPala wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

BigGuy28 wrote...

I didn't see a single thing in the game indicating Shepard was being indoctrinated. The herp derp theory is just people being unable to accept that the endings really are just that terrible. So as a defensive mechanism they came up with a theory that makes the endings more palatable to them. Funny thing is, the herp derp theory is worse than the actual endings.

Explain the last scene with TIM then...How is he controling Shepard if Shepard is not in the process of indoctriantion?

TIM was succesful in controlling reaper tech, and has essentially become a human reaper, and when i close proximity hes able to use his reaper control to reach out and force his will on others.

But not even Sovergin could control people instatly. If he could why did he do so on virmire,or the batle of the citadel. Also, why didn't harbinger do this to Shepard after he shot him down? Their is no instant indoctrination like this.

You don't actually know that, you know indoctrination takes time, direct control however is up in the air, its also risky as seen when Sovereign takes direct control of Saren and when saren goes down Sovereigns shields go down as well.  Sure the codex says thats fixed but where else in the universe does that ever happen?  Sure Harbinger does it allt he time in ME2, but hes out in dark space how does the codex even know if its fixed.  Would you wanna be the one to test that in the middle of the largest battle in the histoy of the galaxy?  

Also for all Harbinger knows he evaporated shepard with that beam.

Yes, I do. I have the entire plaot of ME to back me....Even ME3. There reapers every where and not one did they instatly put someone under indoctrination like you think TIM did. You need to show proof of it first before using this assumption.

Direct control is not indoctination.

Yes it is. It only happen to beings with reaper implants. When has anyone with out reaper implants get directly controled?

[jijeebo]

Krushiev01 wrote...

Haven't been around in a while, but I just finished watching this and thought I'd share... Maybe I'm just blind, but I haven't seen it posted anywhere.

http://www.youtube.c...ayer_embedded#!

I wasn't really one who supported Indoc Theory, but this vid (watch out, it's loooooong) has me leaning towards it.

If it needs an 85 minute documentary to make sense of the last 10 minutes of a game... A lot of fail has occured in the world.

Bioware suck. <_<

[dreman9999]

Gorkan86 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

2. There are no signs of indoctriation till it;s too late.

When it become too late for Saren?

When he started agreeing with the reapers. That was long before ME1 took place.

[dreman9999]

jijeebo wrote...

Krushiev01 wrote...

Haven't been around in a while, but I just finished watching this and thought I'd share... Maybe I'm just blind, but I haven't seen it posted anywhere.

http://www.youtube.c...ayer_embedded#!

I wasn't really one who supported Indoc Theory, but this vid (watch out, it's loooooong) has me leaning towards it.

If it needs an 85 minute documentary to make sense of the last 10 minutes of a game... A lot of fail has occured in the world.

Bioware suck. <_<

No, you need to pay attention while you playing 3 games.....

[dreman9999]

fr33stylez wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

When did Shepard become indoctrinated?

Why did Shepard's thought process throughout any of the games indicate any hints on indoctrination?

Why aren't any of the squadmates showing signs either?

Why don't Shepard's closest allies notice signs of indoctrination

Really?
REALLY?

That quote didn't answer any of my questions.

I'm going to re-post something I posted in the IT thread, which I received no response.

My understanding of Indoctrinaion throughout the trilogy is that there is evidence of a progression in the individual being indoctrinated. This is true in the logs we hear from Dr. Kenson, from the Cerberus employees on the derelict Reaper, and so on.

It is true we must reject Object Rho from Arrival as a reason for indoctrination (BW's fault), beause this 'indoctrination' occurs in ME3 even if Shepard never came into contact with Object Rho (i.e. did not play Arrival DLC). I also haven't seen any characters in ME that were indoctrinated due to 'acute' exposure to Reaper/Reaper artifacts. Shepard has never been in constant exposure with a Reaper/Reaper artifact as I don't even see this would lead to indoctrination. 

1) If Shepard is the only member of his crew that was indoctrinated, one would expect there would be clues in the things Shepard says in the course of ME2/ME3 which would suggest Shepard being influenced. There is no questioning the Reaper's role or motives like every person we've seen indoctrinated in the ME series does. Even up until the conversation with TIM, Shepard have NEVER wavered in his resolve to destroy the Reapers, not even one doubt. 

1a) If the argument is we couldn't see these subtle changes in Shepard's beliefs because we are playing in his perspective (technically that's not true, it's third-person) one could still wonder why none of the dozen people on your ship that are familiar with indoctrination since didn't notice anything strange about what Shepard says or does. telling Shepard "you're stressed and tired" isn't proof of indoctrination.

2) If fighting Collectors, being in a Collector base, talking to Soverign on Vimire, going on the Derelict Reaper is enough to cause Indoctrination as many hae claimed, there is no reason why others on your team who have been by your side since ME1 (Tali, Garrus, etc.) wouldn't have suffered the same indoctrination.

The problem with IT lies that there is no evidence of the progression to indoctrination in Shepard's thoughts and beliefs anywhere  in the trilogy leading to the ending. If anything, they get stronger during the course of the series.

You missing two things.
1.Shepardis in the process of indoctriation.
2. There are no signs of indoctriation till it;s too late.
 

What do you mean "there are no signs of indoctrination till it's too late"? Too late for what? There are ALWAYS signs of indoctrination, like I said this is evidence in the entire series through inidivuals who are indoctrinated, and in the audio logs of people undergoing indoctrination.

Also, WHY is Shepard fighting indoctrination ? Since when? What caused it? Indoctrination is not something that happens by a switch, so when did indoctrination begin?

Too late to try to fight ageinst it. And know the eairly parts of indoctriation are hard to peg as indoctrination. It's  sublte as Rana says. Even people who know about it get caught by it...Look at Dr. Kennson and her team in Arriaval. Indcotriation is subtle. You won't know you are indoctrianted till it's too late to fight it.

[TODD9999]

A few points.

If BioWare had come out with a free ending DLC after, say, a month of the game being out, with a new ending that incorporated IT and had full cinematics, voice acting, and so forth, that would be evidence to me that they had planned it from the beginning. Nothing like that happened.

If BioWare had stated that IT was what they had planned, then that would be interesting. Not "we don't want to stop the fans from speculating", not Jessica Merizan tweeting her own opinions, but an official statement. The things they've said have mostly been that they were happy with the ending, or thought we didn't need more information - which doesn't make sense, as IT either requires more after what we've played, or it's a totally incomplete ending.

If people had built up IT as the series went along, then it would have more credibility for me. I'll definitely admit, I wasn't a very avid forumgoer before ME3, but I did swing by, and I don't recall seeing any threads like that. Since IT appears to have only sprung up after the ME3 ending, then to me it's very vulnerable to confirmation bias - you have the idea that IT is happening, you want to find supporting evidence, so you do. Anything is grist for the mill.

I won't say I've examined everything that an IT supporter has put forth as "evidence", but I've looked at quite a few pieces, and found them to either not support IT or be inconclusive. Combined with my previous statements, I'm unswayed. To me, barring new stuff coming to light, IT is just an entertaining fan theory. I read a similar one about Super Mario Brothers 3 - that it was all just a play, and not "real". It can be fun to think about those things, but ultimately for me it doesn't work.

[jijeebo]

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Krushiev01 wrote...

Haven't been around in a while, but I just finished watching this and thought I'd share... Maybe I'm just blind, but I haven't seen it posted anywhere.

http://www.youtube.c...ayer_embedded#!

I wasn't really one who supported Indoc Theory, but this vid (watch out, it's loooooong) has me leaning towards it.

If it needs an 85 minute documentary to make sense of the last 10 minutes of a game... A lot of fail has occured in the world.

Bioware suck. <_<

No, you need to pay attention while you playing 3 games.....

Oh no you di-in't!

*snap snap snap*

And if all IT required was for people to "pay attention", the "evidence" wouldn't have to include file names and ridiculous levels of assumption... Would it?


EDIT: Forgot to mention, Bioware still suck.

Modifié par jijeebo, 10 mai 2012 - 05:42 .

[dreman9999]

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

jasonxxsatanna wrote...

I don't know if many ppl read the app "The final hours of Mass Effect 3" but in the interview with Casey Hudson its said that towards the end of ME3 the player was to play as an indoctrinated Shep but the controls were to hard to work out so the dev's scrapped it. . . but that was about the controls it never said that they took out the story plot of IT . . . .
So it only makes since to me that IT explains alot of what was going on in the end, and for those who don't think its IT , what do you make of the whole nightmare parts of the game?
Why would it be such a heavy part of the story if it wasn't trying to place IT as part of the plot

This app mentions a Shepard that is under reaper control, not a Shepard that is indoctrinated. The distinction was obviously made for a reason.

The dreams are Bioware showing us Shepards survivors guilt... Because they were determined to make everyone care immensely about this stupid dead kid.

Oh, my god..Do you even know what you are saying? The reapers control people only with indoctrination. How can Shepard be under reaper control with out being indoctrinated?

I don't know, and we never will because Bioware didn't implement it into the game.

No, we know because they took the time to explain it in the entire plot of ME. The reaper can't control people with out indoctriantion. They made that very clear.

They also told us that the reapers were "beyond our comprehension" and built them up as super-intelligent beings... All to turn round in the last 5 minutes and tell us that they are actually the opposite, being tools for the catalyst. Plot's develop, and enemy capabilities change.

No, people still don't get why they are doin what they are doing. Peoples still don't get the star childs goal. So yes they are beyond our alot of people comprihension.

Modifié par dreman9999, 10 mai 2012 - 05:42 .

[dreman9999]

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Krushiev01 wrote...

Haven't been around in a while, but I just finished watching this and thought I'd share... Maybe I'm just blind, but I haven't seen it posted anywhere.

http://www.youtube.c...ayer_embedded#!

I wasn't really one who supported Indoc Theory, but this vid (watch out, it's loooooong) has me leaning towards it.

If it needs an 85 minute documentary to make sense of the last 10 minutes of a game... A lot of fail has occured in the world.

Bioware suck. <_<

No, you need to pay attention while you playing 3 games.....

Oh no you di-in't!

*snap snap snap*

And if all IT required was for people to "pay attention", the "evidence" wouldn't have to include file names and ridiculous levels of assumption... Would it?


EDIT: Forgot to mention, Bioware still suck.

How many time must it be said that indoctriation is subtle.

[Gorkan86]

So Garrus is indoctrinated? Because i take him with me on a missions as often as possible.

Modifié par Gorkan86, 10 mai 2012 - 05:45 .

[dreman9999]

TODD9999 wrote...

A few points.

If BioWare had come out with a free ending DLC after, say, a month of the game being out, with a new ending that incorporated IT and had full cinematics, voice acting, and so forth, that would be evidence to me that they had planned it from the beginning. Nothing like that happened.

If BioWare had stated that IT was what they had planned, then that would be interesting. Not "we don't want to stop the fans from speculating", not Jessica Merizan tweeting her own opinions, but an official statement. The things they've said have mostly been that they were happy with the ending, or thought we didn't need more information - which doesn't make sense, as IT either requires more after what we've played, or it's a totally incomplete ending.

If people had built up IT as the series went along, then it would have more credibility for me. I'll definitely admit, I wasn't a very avid forumgoer before ME3, but I did swing by, and I don't recall seeing any threads like that. Since IT appears to have only sprung up after the ME3 ending, then to me it's very vulnerable to confirmation bias - you have the idea that IT is happening, you want to find supporting evidence, so you do. Anything is grist for the mill.

I won't say I've examined everything that an IT supporter has put forth as "evidence", but I've looked at quite a few pieces, and found them to either not support IT or be inconclusive. Combined with my previous statements, I'm unswayed. To me, barring new stuff coming to light, IT is just an entertaining fan theory. I read a similar one about Super Mario Brothers 3 - that it was all just a play, and not "real". It can be fun to think about those things, but ultimately for me it doesn't work.

Again, how many time does have to say indoctrination is subtle. Not how most of the sign come up after the arrival dlc.

[jasonxxsatanna]

@ jijeebo , survivors guilt. . . Shouldn't he be also dreaming about the VS and/or the 300,000 some baterians who died in the alpha relay incident. . . .your opinion I think its IT , but hey thats me

[jijeebo]

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

jasonxxsatanna wrote...

I don't know if many ppl read the app "The final hours of Mass Effect 3" but in the interview with Casey Hudson its said that towards the end of ME3 the player was to play as an indoctrinated Shep but the controls were to hard to work out so the dev's scrapped it. . . but that was about the controls it never said that they took out the story plot of IT . . . .
So it only makes since to me that IT explains alot of what was going on in the end, and for those who don't think its IT , what do you make of the whole nightmare parts of the game?
Why would it be such a heavy part of the story if it wasn't trying to place IT as part of the plot

This app mentions a Shepard that is under reaper control, not a Shepard that is indoctrinated. The distinction was obviously made for a reason.

The dreams are Bioware showing us Shepards survivors guilt... Because they were determined to make everyone care immensely about this stupid dead kid.

Oh, my god..Do you even know what you are saying? The reapers control people only with indoctrination. How can Shepard be under reaper control with out being indoctrinated?

I don't know, and we never will because Bioware didn't implement it into the game.

No, we know because they took the time to explain it in the entire plot of ME. The reaper can't control people with out indoctriantion. They made that very clear.

They also told us that the reapers were "beyond our comprehension" and built them up as super-intelligent beings... All to turn round in the last 5 minutes and tell us that they are actually the opposite, being tools for the catalyst. Plot's develop, and enemy capabilities change.

No, people still don't get why they are doin what they are doing. People still don't get the star childs goal. So yes they are beyond our alot of people comprihension.

I get exactly why they're doing it, unfortunately there isn't much room for speculation when it comes to their cack-handed logic.

[dreman9999]

Gorkan86 wrote...

So Garrus is indoctrinated? Because i take it with me on a missions as often as possible.

Was he on Eden prime...Did he go with you on Arrival? Was he an every mision? Shepard still has way more expose to reaper wave then Garrus. Also, the reapers are focus on Shepard.

[SoloPala]

dreman9999 wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

BigGuy28 wrote...

I didn't see a single thing in the game indicating Shepard was being indoctrinated. The herp derp theory is just people being unable to accept that the endings really are just that terrible. So as a defensive mechanism they came up with a theory that makes the endings more palatable to them. Funny thing is, the herp derp theory is worse than the actual endings.

Explain the last scene with TIM then...How is he controling Shepard if Shepard is not in the process of indoctriantion?

TIM was succesful in controlling reaper tech, and has essentially become a human reaper, and when i close proximity hes able to use his reaper control to reach out and force his will on others.

But not even Sovergin could control people instatly. If he could why did he do so on virmire,or the batle of the citadel. Also, why didn't harbinger do this to Shepard after he shot him down? Their is no instant indoctrination like this.

You don't actually know that, you know indoctrination takes time, direct control however is up in the air, its also risky as seen when Sovereign takes direct control of Saren and when saren goes down Sovereigns shields go down as well.  Sure the codex says thats fixed but where else in the universe does that ever happen?  Sure Harbinger does it allt he time in ME2, but hes out in dark space how does the codex even know if its fixed.  Would you wanna be the one to test that in the middle of the largest battle in the histoy of the galaxy?  

Also for all Harbinger knows he evaporated shepard with that beam.

Yes, I do. I have the entire plaot of ME to back me....Even ME3. There reapers every where and not one did they instatly put someone under indoctrination like you think TIM did. You need to show proof of it first before using this assumption.

Direct control is not indoctination.

Yes it is. It only happen to beings with reaper implants. When has anyone with out reaper implants get directly controled?

More likely an indoctrinated organic is easily forced under direct control, hence why an unindoctrinated shepard is able to fight TIMs attempt.  Besides if Shepard was indoctrinated why didn't any of the reapers fighting him just asy, ololololo you're indoc i take control of you now.
 On top of that whats the point of any of the endings past taking synthesis or Control, if the reapers win shouldn't you just see everyone dying everywhere cause you failed?  Theres no reason to show shepard he won, cause hes theirs now, IT uses a lot of leaps, and assumptions.

Modifié par SoloPala, 10 mai 2012 - 05:49 .

[jijeebo]

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Krushiev01 wrote...

Haven't been around in a while, but I just finished watching this and thought I'd share... Maybe I'm just blind, but I haven't seen it posted anywhere.

http://www.youtube.c...ayer_embedded#!

I wasn't really one who supported Indoc Theory, but this vid (watch out, it's loooooong) has me leaning towards it.

If it needs an 85 minute documentary to make sense of the last 10 minutes of a game... A lot of fail has occured in the world.

Bioware suck. <_<

No, you need to pay attention while you playing 3 games.....

Oh no you di-in't!

*snap snap snap*

And if all IT required was for people to "pay attention", the "evidence" wouldn't have to include file names and ridiculous levels of assumption... Would it?


EDIT: Forgot to mention, Bioware still suck.

How many time must it be said that indoctriation is subtle.

So subtle I have to buy the PC version and scour the source files to support it?

... Not likely.

[fr33stylez]

dreman9999 wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

When did Shepard become indoctrinated?

Why did Shepard's thought process throughout any of the games indicate any hints on indoctrination?

Why aren't any of the squadmates showing signs either?

Why don't Shepard's closest allies notice signs of indoctrination

Really?
REALLY?

That quote didn't answer any of my questions.

I'm going to re-post something I posted in the IT thread, which I received no response.

My understanding of Indoctrinaion throughout the trilogy is that there is evidence of a progression in the individual being indoctrinated. This is true in the logs we hear from Dr. Kenson, from the Cerberus employees on the derelict Reaper, and so on.

It is true we must reject Object Rho from Arrival as a reason for indoctrination (BW's fault), beause this 'indoctrination' occurs in ME3 even if Shepard never came into contact with Object Rho (i.e. did not play Arrival DLC). I also haven't seen any characters in ME that were indoctrinated due to 'acute' exposure to Reaper/Reaper artifacts. Shepard has never been in constant exposure with a Reaper/Reaper artifact as I don't even see this would lead to indoctrination. 

1) If Shepard is the only member of his crew that was indoctrinated, one would expect there would be clues in the things Shepard says in the course of ME2/ME3 which would suggest Shepard being influenced. There is no questioning the Reaper's role or motives like every person we've seen indoctrinated in the ME series does. Even up until the conversation with TIM, Shepard have NEVER wavered in his resolve to destroy the Reapers, not even one doubt. 

1a) If the argument is we couldn't see these subtle changes in Shepard's beliefs because we are playing in his perspective (technically that's not true, it's third-person) one could still wonder why none of the dozen people on your ship that are familiar with indoctrination since didn't notice anything strange about what Shepard says or does. telling Shepard "you're stressed and tired" isn't proof of indoctrination.

2) If fighting Collectors, being in a Collector base, talking to Soverign on Vimire, going on the Derelict Reaper is enough to cause Indoctrination as many hae claimed, there is no reason why others on your team who have been by your side since ME1 (Tali, Garrus, etc.) wouldn't have suffered the same indoctrination.

The problem with IT lies that there is no evidence of the progression to indoctrination in Shepard's thoughts and beliefs anywhere  in the trilogy leading to the ending. If anything, they get stronger during the course of the series.

You missing two things.
1.Shepardis in the process of indoctriation.
2. There are no signs of indoctriation till it;s too late.
 

What do you mean "there are no signs of indoctrination till it's too late"? Too late for what? There are ALWAYS signs of indoctrination, like I said this is evidence in the entire series through inidivuals who are indoctrinated, and in the audio logs of people undergoing indoctrination.

Also, WHY is Shepard fighting indoctrination ? Since when? What caused it? Indoctrination is not something that happens by a switch, so when did indoctrination begin?

Too late to try to fight ageinst it. And know the eairly parts of indoctriation are hard to peg as indoctrination. It's  sublte as Rana says. Even people who know about it get caught by it...Look at Dr. Kennson and her team in Arriaval. Indcotriation is subtle. You won't know you are indoctrianted till it's too late to fight it.

We're not playing the game in first-person, even though we control Shepard for the most part. It doesn't matter if Shepard doesn't know he's becoming indoctrinated, WE as players should. OTHER characters in the game should as well. Shepard says NOTHINg in any of the 3 games in where he begins to question his motives of destroying the Reapers or the motives of the Reapers themselves.

Dr. Kenson DOES question herself, so do other that are indoctrinated - Shepard doesn't. Shepard's actions are also not reflective of indoctrination.

And again, you're only describing the end result of indoctrination. When did indoctrination begin and what caused it?

Modifié par fr33stylez, 10 mai 2012 - 06:02 .

[jijeebo]

jasonxxsatanna wrote...

@ jijeebo , survivors guilt. . . Shouldn't he be also dreaming about the VS and/or the 300,000 some baterians who died in the alpha relay incident. . . .your opinion I think its IT , but hey thats me

He really should, but the almighty artistic vision that descended upon ME3 had different ideas.

[dreman9999]

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

jasonxxsatanna wrote...

I don't know if many ppl read the app "The final hours of Mass Effect 3" but in the interview with Casey Hudson its said that towards the end of ME3 the player was to play as an indoctrinated Shep but the controls were to hard to work out so the dev's scrapped it. . . but that was about the controls it never said that they took out the story plot of IT . . . .
So it only makes since to me that IT explains alot of what was going on in the end, and for those who don't think its IT , what do you make of the whole nightmare parts of the game?
Why would it be such a heavy part of the story if it wasn't trying to place IT as part of the plot

This app mentions a Shepard that is under reaper control, not a Shepard that is indoctrinated. The distinction was obviously made for a reason.

The dreams are Bioware showing us Shepards survivors guilt... Because they were determined to make everyone care immensely about this stupid dead kid.

Oh, my god..Do you even know what you are saying? The reapers control people only with indoctrination. How can Shepard be under reaper control with out being indoctrinated?

I don't know, and we never will because Bioware didn't implement it into the game.

No, we know because they took the time to explain it in the entire plot of ME. The reaper can't control people with out indoctriantion. They made that very clear.

They also told us that the reapers were "beyond our comprehension" and built them up as super-intelligent beings... All to turn round in the last 5 minutes and tell us that they are actually the opposite, being tools for the catalyst. Plot's develop, and enemy capabilities change.

No, people still don't get why they are doin what they are doing. People still don't get the star childs goal. So yes they are beyond our alot of people comprihension.

I get exactly why they're doing it, unfortunately there isn't much room for speculation when it comes to their cack-handed logic.

And that why you don't understand. You think it's crack handed logic. You really can't understand because the reaper really arn't tellin anyone. The reaper are not here to debate their beleifs just to impose them. They never debate and the never will debate it till they are in a corner. They don't think the other races are worth of a clear explination. That is made clear by the fact that have the cycles. They don't give all the info they know about there soltion, so really no one can understand then truly, so we are left to assume.

[TODD9999]

dreman9999 wrote...

Again, how many time does have to say indoctrination is subtle. Not how most of the sign come up after the arrival dlc.

You can keep saying it, but I'm afraid it's not strengthening my perception of your argument.

[Gorkan86]

dreman9999 wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

So Garrus is indoctrinated? Because i take it with me on a missions as often as possible.

Was he on Eden prime...Did he go with you on Arrival? Was he an every mision? Shepard still has way more expose to reaper wave then Garrus. Also, the reapers are focus on Shepard.

But he was in the range of the reaper tech, a lot of husks, a lot of dragon spikes, near Sovereign, he was inside a reaper with me, near indoctrination buster on some planet, reaper artifacts from cerberus base, and even proto-reaper. This is what I could remember.

How did he manage to avoid indoctrination in such frequent contact with reaper tech?

[dreman9999]

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Krushiev01 wrote...

Haven't been around in a while, but I just finished watching this and thought I'd share... Maybe I'm just blind, but I haven't seen it posted anywhere.

http://www.youtube.c...ayer_embedded#!

I wasn't really one who supported Indoc Theory, but this vid (watch out, it's loooooong) has me leaning towards it.

If it needs an 85 minute documentary to make sense of the last 10 minutes of a game... A lot of fail has occured in the world.

Bioware suck. <_<

No, you need to pay attention while you playing 3 games.....

Oh no you di-in't!

*snap snap snap*

And if all IT required was for people to "pay attention", the "evidence" wouldn't have to include file names and ridiculous levels of assumption... Would it?


EDIT: Forgot to mention, Bioware still suck.

How many time must it be said that indoctriation is subtle.

So subtle I have to buy the PC version and scour the source files to support it?

... Not likely.

No, you would have to pay attention to the plot. 

[fr33stylez]

dreman9999 wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

So Garrus is indoctrinated? Because i take it with me on a missions as often as possible.

Was he on Eden prime...Did he go with you on Arrival? Was he an every mision? Shepard still has way more expose to reaper wave then Garrus. Also, the reapers are focus on Shepard.

According to IT you're indictrinated even if you never played Arrival, so Object Rho doesn't matter.