109 réponses à ce sujet

[Talogrungi]

EsterCloat wrote...

Yes I've seen that but that doesn't mean that the ground troops can send the signal or energy field by themselves. It could easily mean that they can only amplify and extend the reach of a Reaper's field when they are in range themselves. Thus the use of the word amplify rather than recreate or copy.

And that in turn could easily mean that the signal they're amplifying could originate from any source of Reaper tech rather than an actual Reaper. Reaper tech such as Object Rho .. or Dragon's Teeth .. or whatever. It's already canon that indoctrination is possible without the physical presence of a Reaper.

[liggy002]

fr33stylez wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

And if you never played Arrival and visitoed Object Rho? Or does Harbinger's threat count as successful indoctrination?

It doesn't matter if you never played Arrival.  The game is still pointing out that Shepard is not immune to indoctrination.  SERIOUSLY?!   Why is this even a question?

[Rip504]

Duh!

[Raiil]

It's a known quantity that exposure to Reaper tech can cause indoctrination. One of the holes in the theory is the fact that how long, and how much, is necessary to even begin slow burn indoctrination is unknown. If Reaper bodies, even via husks, marauders, etc are capable causing the initial process, then every squaddie save Legion and EDI would be suffering indoc issues by now.

The question you pose supposes that if indoctrination is possible, then it had occurred. This is not fact, and should not be taken as such.

[UrgentArchengel]

liggy002 wrote...

It doesn't matter if you never played Arrival.  The game is still pointing out that Shepard is not immune to indoctrination.  SERIOUSLY?!   Why is this even a question?

I asked that because some people seriously are in denial over it.  Shepard isn't Superman, he doesn't have some mythical power that makes him unindoctrinatable.  He is but a simple man or woman of you played as femshep.
Anyway.  Arrival is still quite important, nobody can dismiss that.  They clearly were serious about Shepard being attacked by reaper indoctrination in ME3, and Arrival confirms it.

[almondroy]

How much of the tech used in Project Lazarus was Reaper based (salvage from Sovereign, etc)?

[Pelle6666]

Nope, and really hope he is indoctrinated in the ending.

[UrgentArchengel]

Valentia X wrote...

It's a known quantity that exposure to Reaper tech can cause indoctrination. One of the holes in the theory is the fact that how long, and how much, is necessary to even begin slow burn indoctrination is unknown. If Reaper bodies, even via husks, marauders, etc are capable causing the initial process, then every squaddie save Legion and EDI would be suffering indoc issues by now.

The question you pose supposes that if indoctrination is possible, then it had occurred. This is not fact, and should not be taken as such.

True, but Shepard is more important, he is the avatar of this cycle.  He would be the main target of indoctrination over Garrus or Liara.

[AresKeith]

Shepard isn't immune, but he/she was going through the process of Indotrination

[Raiil]

I'm not arguing Shepard's importance. I'm questioning the possibility that only Shepard would be affected, given that his squaddies are often in close proximity for extended periods of time.

Additionally, this downplays the strength of Shepard's team, which is the best of the best. Is there a viable reason not to target an important Quarian, a Turian that even generals salute?

[Tom Lehrer]

Bill Casey wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

And if you never played Arrival and visited Object Rho?

Then the Rachni are still around, Illusive Man salvages the wreckage, Padok Wiks cures the Genophage, and Geth VI hangs out in your ship...

So tell us. What takes the place of Rho in ME3?

[Leafs43]

Valentia X wrote...

I'm not arguing Shepard's importance. I'm questioning the possibility that only Shepard would be affected, given that his squaddies are often in close proximity for extended periods of time.

Additionally, this downplays the strength of Shepard's team, which is the best of the best. Is there a viable reason not to target an important Quarian, a Turian that even generals salute?

Indoctrination is most likely a conscious act by the reapers.


Meaning the reapers pick who to indoctrinate and who not to indoctrinate.  So being around reaper tech does not automatically lead to indoctrination.  It only does so if the reapers want to indoctrinate someone.

[Draining Dragon]

Considering how influential Shepard can be (charm/intimidate), who says Shepard couldn't resist indoctrination?

[Sepharih]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

And if you never played Arrival and visited Object Rho?

Then the Rachni are still around, Illusive Man salvages the wreckage, Padok Wiks cures the Genophage, and Geth VI hangs out in your ship...

So tell us. What takes the place of Rho in ME3?

I recall picking up a set of artifacts and being in close proximity to a couple reapers throughout ME3.  Also, even if you didn't do arrival, you did spend a good half hour inside of a derelict reaper in ME2.

[Tom Lehrer]

Sepharih wrote...


I recall picking up a set of artifacts and being in close proximity to a couple reapers throughout ME3.  Also, even if you didn't do arrival, you did spend a good half hour inside of a derelict reaper in ME2.

If thats all it took everyone on Earth, Palaven, and Thessia would have been indoctrinatied.

[xsdob]

No where does indoctrination say anything about hallucinating an entire alternative reality while unconscious, no where, in fact one of the few thing I have to give the IT is that it is more like inception than indoctrination, and I liked inception a lot.

Strange dreams maybe, but the dreams only seem to start by being extremly close to a reaper, like inside it like benezia, saren, dr shu qian, and the cerberus researchers were, other wise it appers to be simple voices in your head type schizophrenia.

Modifié par xsdob, 10 mai 2012 - 08:23 .

[Sepharih]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Sepharih wrote...


I recall picking up a set of artifacts and being in close proximity to a couple reapers throughout ME3.  Also, even if you didn't do arrival, you did spend a good half hour inside of a derelict reaper in ME2.

If thats all it took everyone on Earth, Palaven, and Thessia would have been indoctrinatied.

I'm pretty sure there are very few people on Earth, Palaven, and Thessia who have walked around the inside of derelict reaper, handled Reaper artifacts, AND have been in close proximity to them on and off again for a period of years.

[Sepharih]

xsdob wrote...

No where does indoctrination say anything about hallucinating an entire alternative reality while unconscious, no where,

The lore behind indoctrination is always changing. Prior to ME3, anyone who was indoctrinated was just a blind slave to the Reapers.  In ME3, the Illusive man is out to control the reapers while being an unknowing puppet.  
Indoctrination affects peope in different ways, and exactly how it works seems to have intentionally been left vague.

Modifié par Sepharih, 10 mai 2012 - 08:27 .

[Raiil]

Dead Reapers can indoctrinate, can't they? Isn't that the deal with the Leviathan of Dis? And yet somehow, it never occurs to the Respers to take out Shepard's team? Shepard is not a one-man army; he relies on others.

[Tom Lehrer]

Sepharih wrote...


I'm pretty sure there are very few people on Earth, Palaven, and Thessia who have walked around the inside of derelict reaper, handled Reaper artifacts, AND have been in close proximity to them on and off again for a period of years.

It took weeks if not a few months for the people in the dead Reaper to be indoctrinated and Shepard+crew were only there of half an hour. And how many Reaper artifacts has Shepard handled? And prior to ME3 how many Reapers had he been close to? Can baby reapers indoctrinat? What about Garrus and Tali? They have been with Shepard the whole time. Does that mean they are indoctrinated too? What about TIM? Hes had Husk eyes for 20+ years but was free of Reaper control until he had himself implated with more Reaper tech.

Modifié par Tom Lehrer, 10 mai 2012 - 08:32 .

[111987]

Leafs43 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Think of indoctrination like cancer.

It doesn't matter how small it starts but in the end it builds uncontrollably.

You definitely just made that up.

Indoctrination really is like a cancer.

Cancer, it develops faster when constantly exposed to a carcinigen.  Take cigarettes for example.  The more you smoke the bigger your chances of getting lung cancer are.  But the waitress who is smoke free works in a smoke filled dinner.  20 years later she finds out she has lung cancer when she never smoked a cigarette in her life.


Now think about indoctrination.  Sovereign, object rho, the derelict reaper, the masses of husks, etc... are all "cigarette smoke" and Sheperd is "the waitress".  All the cigarette smoke had to do was plant the seed for cancer.

You have failed to provide proof that there is any weight to your comparison. you say that Indoctrination is like a cancer, explain how you can get cancer without smoking, and then say indoctrination is the same, without explaining your proof for how and why it is the same.

You are obviosuly not very good at analytics and analogies.


All the reapers ever had to do was plant the seed of indoctrination in Sheperd and that gives them an "in".  And from there they can grow it.  More exposure just gives them a wider window.


Harbinger controlled an entire species from dark space.  I think he can manage an indoctrination attempt on one individual from the same spot.

Yeah I'm not the problem here.

Where is your evidence that indoctrination works like cancer, that i can be planted like a seed? You have provided none. Thus until you provide tghis evidence, your analogy is useless.

Harbinger controlled a species through their implants and quantam entanglement. Totally different.

[Gorkan86]

The Citadel is reaper tech, so it's must emanate indoctrination signals.
Why do so many of Shepard's friends, which are constantly on the Citadel were not indoctrinated in 3 years, or longer?

[Dendio1]

fr33stylez wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

And if you never played Arrival and visitoed Object Rho? Or does Harbinger's threat count as successful indoctrination?

Buy the dlc to see the canon or you miss out. Just like buying the book to see the canon or you miss out.

[Sepharih]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Sepharih wrote...


I'm pretty sure there are very few people on Earth, Palaven, and Thessia who have walked around the inside of derelict reaper, handled Reaper artifacts, AND have been in close proximity to them on and off again for a period of years.

It took weeks if not a few months for the people in the dead Reaper to be indoctrinated and Shepard+crew were only there of half an hour. And how many Reaper artifacts has Shepard handled? And prior to ME3 how many Reapers had he been close to? Can baby reapers indoctrinat? What about Garrus and Tali? They have been with Shepard the whole time. Does that mean they are indoctrinated too?

As I said, I think it would have been cool if there had been a level of tension over who could be indoctrinated in the crew.

Also, again, indoctrination is something that's intentionally left pretty vague in the lore.  My point is not to say that Shepard absolutely was indoctrinated (bioware didn't intend it I suspect), my only point is that as an interpretation of the ending it doesn't really contradict existing lore on the subject much if at all.
You say that it took "weeks if not a few months" for the crew on the derelict reaper to be indoctrinated, but that doesn't even mean anything because the lore specifically specifies that "rapid indoctrination" is possible.

All that the events of Arrival provide is more foreshadowing to the interpretation of indoctrination.  

Tom Lehrer wrote... What about TIM? Hes had Husk eyes for 20+ years but was free of Reaper control until he had himself implated with more Reaper tech.

Pretty sure you're just incorrect on this one.  Illusive man is definately indoctrinated by the begining of ME3, and i'm pretty sure its been stated somewhere in the EU he's been indoctrinated for longer than that.  Someone want to chime in?

[Leafs43]

111987 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Think of indoctrination like cancer.

It doesn't matter how small it starts but in the end it builds uncontrollably.

You definitely just made that up.

Indoctrination really is like a cancer.

Cancer, it develops faster when constantly exposed to a carcinigen.  Take cigarettes for example.  The more you smoke the bigger your chances of getting lung cancer are.  But the waitress who is smoke free works in a smoke filled dinner.  20 years later she finds out she has lung cancer when she never smoked a cigarette in her life.


Now think about indoctrination.  Sovereign, object rho, the derelict reaper, the masses of husks, etc... are all "cigarette smoke" and Sheperd is "the waitress".  All the cigarette smoke had to do was plant the seed for cancer.

You have failed to provide proof that there is any weight to your comparison. you say that Indoctrination is like a cancer, explain how you can get cancer without smoking, and then say indoctrination is the same, without explaining your proof for how and why it is the same.

You are obviosuly not very good at analytics and analogies.


All the reapers ever had to do was plant the seed of indoctrination in Sheperd and that gives them an "in".  And from there they can grow it.  More exposure just gives them a wider window.


Harbinger controlled an entire species from dark space.  I think he can manage an indoctrination attempt on one individual from the same spot.

Yeah I'm not the problem here.

Where is your evidence that indoctrination works like cancer, that i can be planted like a seed? You have provided none. Thus until you provide tghis evidence, your analogy is useless.

Harbinger controlled a species through their implants and quantam entanglement. Totally different.

We have plenty of evidence that requires only a little exposure to reaper tech in order for it to work.  
See:  Rana Thanoptis 

So therefore indoctrination grows within the victims mind without constant exposure.



So you are the problem here.

Modifié par Leafs43, 10 mai 2012 - 08:50 .