109 réponses à ce sujet

[Hogge87]

Leafs43 wrote...

 And if so, wouldn't that be the biggest plot hole of them all?

Previously in the series, indoctrination has required prolonged exposure to Reaper tech (in ME1 I believe it took two weeks for some archeologists to become indoctrinated). Shepard only ever was in close proximity to Reaper tech for short periods of time.

[Sepharih]

Gorkan86 wrote...

The Citadel is reaper tech, so it's must emanate indoctrination signals.
Why do so many of Shepard's friends, which are constantly on the Citadel were not indoctrinated in 3 years, or longer?

Actually, that's a good point,but it's not so much a plothole for Indoctrination as it is for the series in general.  When you think about it, why wouldn't the Reapers design the citadel to do just that?

[UrgentArchengel]

Valentia X wrote...

I'm not arguing Shepard's importance. I'm questioning the possibility that only Shepard would be affected, given that his squaddies are often in close proximity for extended periods of time.

Additionally, this downplays the strength of Shepard's team, which is the best of the best. Is there a viable reason not to target an important Quarian, a Turian that even generals salute?

I know, just saying that if anyone is going to be forced into indoctrination, it's the big bad Shepard. But yeah, anyone could be Indoctrinated.  It would be cool if your best friend or LI ever got indoctrinated at the end, and you had to either snap them out of it or...kill them. It would be unite powerful.  Idk, something like that would've been cool.

[Leafs43]

Hogge87 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

 And if so, wouldn't that be the biggest plot hole of them all?

Previously in the series, indoctrination has required prolonged exposure to Reaper tech (in ME1 I believe it took two weeks for some archeologists to become indoctrinated). Shepard only ever was in close proximity to Reaper tech for short periods of time.

Udina was supposedly indoctrinated.

Where was his long exposure?



Nevermind Sheperd had the reaper IFF in the Normandy for god knows how long.

Modifié par Leafs43, 10 mai 2012 - 08:55 .

[Sepharih]

Hogge87 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

 And if so, wouldn't that be the biggest plot hole of them all?

Previously in the series, indoctrination has required prolonged exposure to Reaper tech (in ME1 I believe it took two weeks for some archeologists to become indoctrinated). Shepard only ever was in close proximity to Reaper tech for short periods of time.

Question: The codex says "rapid indoctrination" is possible, right?  What's the definition of "rapid" in this context?

[eddieoctane]

Valentia X wrote...

No. But Shepard doesn't have to be immune to indoctrination and still be unindoctrinated in the game.

Lack of immunity towards indoctrination =/= he's indoctrinated.

It could be that he has a higher threshold of what the Reapers have to do to manipulate him. Otherwise, shouldn't whoever you used to snag the Reaper IFF be going nuts right about now? How about Jeff, Ken, and Gabby, who went riding aroudn in a ship with a piece of Reaper tech stuck in the navigation system somewhere?

There is obviously a minimum expsoure value for indoctrination to have any effect whatsoever. And since indoctrination effects each person differently, this minimum could have the effect of Shepard being nearly immune. The concept of not being indoctrinated because the Reapers haven't been poking at your brain enough is no outright stated, but firmly set in the game. Some variants of IT take this a step further by saying that Shep isn;t breaking free from indoctrination, but that Harbginer is giving it his all to conquer the hero's mind, and potentially failing at it.

[111987]

Leafs43 wrote...


We have plenty of evidence that requires only a little exposure to reaper tech in order for it to work.  
See:  Rana Thanoptis 

So therefore indoctrination grows within the victims mind without constant exposure.



So you are the problem here.

Rana spent days if not weeks at the Virmire base. She was always indoctrinated; the Reapers simply didn't use her for years, which as stated in the Codex, they are known to do.

Modifié par 111987, 10 mai 2012 - 08:56 .

[Gorkan86]

Leafs43 wrote...

Hogge87 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

 And if so, wouldn't that be the biggest plot hole of them all?

Previously in the series, indoctrination has required prolonged exposure to Reaper tech (in ME1 I believe it took two weeks for some archeologists to become indoctrinated). Shepard only ever was in close proximity to Reaper tech for short periods of time.

Udina was supposedly indoctrinated.

Where was his long exposure?

At the Citadel.

[Leafs43]

Gorkan86 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Hogge87 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

 And if so, wouldn't that be the biggest plot hole of them all?

Previously in the series, indoctrination has required prolonged exposure to Reaper tech (in ME1 I believe it took two weeks for some archeologists to become indoctrinated). Shepard only ever was in close proximity to Reaper tech for short periods of time.

Udina was supposedly indoctrinated.

Where was his long exposure?

At the Citadel.

Sheperd spends a lot of time on the citadel.

[Gorkan86]

Sepharih wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

The Citadel is reaper tech, so it's must emanate indoctrination signals.
Why do so many of Shepard's friends, which are constantly on the Citadel were not indoctrinated in 3 years, or longer?

Actually, that's a good point,but it's not so much a plothole for Indoctrination as it is for the series in general.  When you think about it, why wouldn't the Reapers design the citadel to do just that?

If you asking me than i dont know. But what i know is that reaper tech and reapers emanate indoctrination signals. Regardless of their destination.

[111987]

Leafs43 wrote...

Hogge87 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

 And if so, wouldn't that be the biggest plot hole of them all?

Previously in the series, indoctrination has required prolonged exposure to Reaper tech (in ME1 I believe it took two weeks for some archeologists to become indoctrinated). Shepard only ever was in close proximity to Reaper tech for short periods of time.

Udina was supposedly indoctrinated.

Where was his long exposure?


Nevermind Sheperd had the reaper IFF in the Normandy for god knows how long.

indoctrination is just one possible theory. There is no evidence suggesting it is right either.

Not all Reaper tech indoctrinates, obviously...

[Gorkan86]

Leafs43 wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

Hogge87 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

 And if so, wouldn't that be the biggest plot hole of them all?

Previously in the series, indoctrination has required prolonged exposure to Reaper tech (in ME1 I believe it took two weeks for some archeologists to become indoctrinated). Shepard only ever was in close proximity to Reaper tech for short periods of time.

Udina was supposedly indoctrinated.

Where was his long exposure?

At the Citadel.

Sheperd spends a lot of time on the citadel.

And Bailey, and Garrus, and ...

[Leafs43]

111987 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...


We have plenty of evidence that requires only a little exposure to reaper tech in order for it to work.  
See:  Rana Thanoptis 

So therefore indoctrination grows within the victims mind without constant exposure.



So you are the problem here.

Rana spent days if not weeks at the Virmire base. She was always indoctrinated; the Reapers simply didn't use her for years, which as stated in the Codex, they are known to do.

She had very little exposure to reaper tech.  

She was a neuroscientist that examined people's brains who have been exposed to indoctrination.

[Hogge87]

Leafs43 wrote...

Hogge87 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

 And if so, wouldn't that be the biggest plot hole of them all?

Previously in the series, indoctrination has required prolonged exposure to Reaper tech (in ME1 I believe it took two weeks for some archeologists to become indoctrinated). Shepard only ever was in close proximity to Reaper tech for short periods of time.

Udina was supposedly indoctrinated.

Where was his long exposure?



Nevermind Sheperd had the reaper IFF in the Normandy for god knows how long.

There isn't really any confirmation of this.
Udina seemed a bit anti-alien in ME1, it's not at all unlikely that he agreed with Cerberus' ideals from the get go.

Interresting point regarding the IFF though. Thing is, I don't recall the IFF to be an actual device. It was an encryption code, wasn't it?

[111987]

Leafs43 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...


We have plenty of evidence that requires only a little exposure to reaper tech in order for it to work.  
See:  Rana Thanoptis 

So therefore indoctrination grows within the victims mind without constant exposure.



So you are the problem here.

Rana spent days if not weeks at the Virmire base. She was always indoctrinated; the Reapers simply didn't use her for years, which as stated in the Codex, they are known to do.

She had very little exposure to reaper tech.  

She was a neuroscientist that examined people's brains who have been exposed to indoctrination.

That's a pretty huge assumption you're making. She even talks about how she feels the indoctrination.

[N7KnightSabre]

That's why the IT would be awesome for the ending. I think having Shepard fighting the effects of indoctrination would be great for the story. It's odd that TIM and Saren were affected but not Shepard.

[Leafs43]

111987 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...


We have plenty of evidence that requires only a little exposure to reaper tech in order for it to work.  
See:  Rana Thanoptis 

So therefore indoctrination grows within the victims mind without constant exposure.



So you are the problem here.

Rana spent days if not weeks at the Virmire base. She was always indoctrinated; the Reapers simply didn't use her for years, which as stated in the Codex, they are known to do.

She had very little exposure to reaper tech.  

She was a neuroscientist that examined people's brains who have been exposed to indoctrination.

That's a pretty huge assumption you're making. She even talks about how she feels the indoctrination.

Her occupation and role are said explicitly.


She even says indoctrination starts out as a tiny whisper.  Therefore indictrination has a growth factor, somewhat like a cancer.

[Gorkan86]

LadyPaine wrote...

That's why the IT would be awesome for the ending. I think having Shepard fighting the effects of indoctrination would be great for the story. It's odd that TIM and Saren were affected but not Shepard.

Too bad your teammates can't fite it.

[Sepharih]

Hogge87 wrote...
Interresting point regarding the IFF though. Thing is, I don't recall the IFF to be an actual device. It was an encryption code, wasn't it?

Whatever it was, it apparently emitted some kind of signal which drew the collectors.

Modifié par Sepharih, 10 mai 2012 - 09:07 .

[111987]

Leafs43 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...


We have plenty of evidence that requires only a little exposure to reaper tech in order for it to work.  
See:  Rana Thanoptis 

So therefore indoctrination grows within the victims mind without constant exposure.



So you are the problem here.

Rana spent days if not weeks at the Virmire base. She was always indoctrinated; the Reapers simply didn't use her for years, which as stated in the Codex, they are known to do.

She had very little exposure to reaper tech.  

She was a neuroscientist that examined people's brains who have been exposed to indoctrination.

That's a pretty huge assumption you're making. She even talks about how she feels the indoctrination.

Her occupation and role are said explicitly.

She even says indoctrination starts out as a tiny whisper.  Therefore indictrination has a growth factor, somewhat like a cancer.

The amount of exposure she has to Reaper tech isn't said explicity. And considering how everyone at that base was indoctrinated...

No, you are making a leap in logic. It starts out as a whisper. As exposure continues, the voices grow stronger.

To prove the validity of your cancer metaphor, you have to show how a person can be exposed to Reaper tech for a short period of time, and then afterwards the indoctrination continues to grow.

In fact, we know this ISN'T true. See the Illusive Man, who was exposed to a Reaper artifact 20 years before the series and was only indoctrinated in the third game. If your cancer theory is true, than he should have been indoctrinated long ago.

[Sepharih]

Gorkan86 wrote...

Sepharih wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

The Citadel is reaper tech, so it's must emanate indoctrination signals.
Why do so many of Shepard's friends, which are constantly on the Citadel were not indoctrinated in 3 years, or longer?

Actually, that's a good point,but it's not so much a plothole for Indoctrination as it is for the series in general.  When you think about it, why wouldn't the Reapers design the citadel to do just that?

If you asking me than i dont know. But what i know is that reaper tech and reapers emanate indoctrination signals. Regardless of their destination.

Clearly that's not the case though....unless you think everyone on the council is indoctrinated also.....

[Sepharih]

111987 wrote...See the Illusive Man, who was exposed to a Reaper artifact 20 years before the series and was only indoctrinated in the third game. If your cancer theory is true, than he should have been indoctrinated long ago.

Again, wasn't he?

[Leafs43]

111987 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...


We have plenty of evidence that requires only a little exposure to reaper tech in order for it to work.  
See:  Rana Thanoptis 

So therefore indoctrination grows within the victims mind without constant exposure.



So you are the problem here.

Rana spent days if not weeks at the Virmire base. She was always indoctrinated; the Reapers simply didn't use her for years, which as stated in the Codex, they are known to do.

She had very little exposure to reaper tech.  

She was a neuroscientist that examined people's brains who have been exposed to indoctrination.

That's a pretty huge assumption you're making. She even talks about how she feels the indoctrination.

Her occupation and role are said explicitly.

She even says indoctrination starts out as a tiny whisper.  Therefore indictrination has a growth factor, somewhat like a cancer.

The amount of exposure she has to Reaper tech isn't said explicity. And considering how everyone at that base was indoctrinated...

No, you are making a leap in logic. It starts out as a whisper. As exposure continues, the voices grow stronger.

To prove the validity of your cancer metaphor, you have to show how a person can be exposed to Reaper tech for a short period of time, and then afterwards the indoctrination continues to grow.

In fact, we know this ISN'T true. See the Illusive Man, who was exposed to a Reaper artifact 20 years before the series and was only indoctrinated in the third game. If your cancer theory is true, than he should have been indoctrinated long ago.

Udina and the hanar Zymandis had no referenced exposure to reaper tech let alone logng periods of time, both indoctrinated.


That chews up your argument and spits it out.

Modifié par Leafs43, 10 mai 2012 - 09:14 .

[Wulfram]

Leafs43 wrote...

Udina and the hanar Zymandis had no referenced exposure to reaper tech let alone logng periods of time, both indoctrinated.

Um, Zymandis got his tentacles on some reaper tech from the Batarians.  Bau tells you this.

Udina... not sure if indoctrinated or just crazy.

[Gorkan86]

Sepharih wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

Sepharih wrote...

Gorkan86 wrote...

The Citadel is reaper tech, so it's must emanate indoctrination signals.
Why do so many of Shepard's friends, which are constantly on the Citadel were not indoctrinated in 3 years, or longer?

Actually, that's a good point,but it's not so much a plothole for Indoctrination as it is for the series in general.  When you think about it, why wouldn't the Reapers design the citadel to do just that?

If you asking me than i dont know. But what i know is that reaper tech and reapers emanate indoctrination signals. Regardless of their destination.

Clearly that's not the case though....unless you think everyone on the council is indoctrinated also.....

I myself do not believe in it.

But, I can't deny the fact that the reaper tech emits indoctrinatin signals. More precisely, I notice that many people believe in this. And this is a canon.
But what if not all the reaper tech works the same? There may be a reaper tech that does not indoktrinate?