126 réponses à ce sujet

[LolaLei]

So in DA2 we learnt that the red lyrium idol drove both Bartrand and Meredith crazy, we also know that there was a lot of red lyrium lying around during the Deep Roads expedition. What with the a lot of the Templars rebelling and breaking away from the Chantry I'd presume that they'd also be cut off from their regular supply of lyrium dust, meaning they'll likely cut deals with lyrium smugglers.

Hypothetically, if those smugglers managed to get their hands on red lyrium and began supplying it to the Templars what do you think the outcome would be?

[MichaelStuart]

They would use it, go crazy and feel justified killing mages while high.

Really I think they would jump at the chance to get red Lyrium. From what I have seen red Lyrium is just a stronger form of Lyrium. So I think they would take any chance at getting stronger.

Modifié par MichaelStuart, 10 mai 2012 - 06:57 .

[nightcobra]

i had an idea about this a while back, i'll copy it here;):
(spoilers ahead concerning meredith, divert your eyes if you don't want to see)
 




let's see if i can explain myself clearly...remember fenris? his lyrium marks were basically what enabled magic use in him. now consider this...it could be possible for something similar to happen to your character.
in DA1 you went through the joining to become a grey warden, what if at the end of DA3's prologue you undergo a experiment/ritual or something that makes you a mana battery much like how gems could make shale one.
this is just an idea however so i don't expect bioware to actually go through with something like this. 
also, we know that the chantry uses lyrium to make templars, templars use a kind of magic to combat mages that much we already know.

how about if the chantry is trying to come up with the next iteration of templar (the glowing carcasse of Meredith at DA2's end could have been sent to higher ups in the chantry order. interesting way to connect DA2 directly to DA3 if you basically have bits of meredith and red lyrium artifact fused with you and other people who could become one of the hardest enemies)  due to the now total war between mages/templars and you're kidnapped and used as a lab rat.

would you still forgive the ones who did this to you (if the ones responsible only did this to protect the people from what they think is the menace of mages) or would you rebel agaisnt them and join the mages cause, or do you use these new found powers for your personal gain, or even yet do you refuse to use them if you find the notion of magic abhorrent?

just a few things out the top of my head.  

like i said some people won't like due to this making the PC a "special snowflake" but i kinda like these kind of characters like i like the grey wardens, spirit monks, etc.
also in my theory it's possible you wouldn't be the only one, just one of the first


gameplay wise - basically a reversed funnel type of class choice for the player character (has magic potential but can choose to train as a warrior or rogue while supressing the innate magic talent or using it to improve the other 2 classes or maybe just concentrating on the mage aspect. the party members would be one of the 3 classes like in previous DA games.

imagine kingdom's of amalur leveling system and you get pretty much the gist of what i'm talking about.
you could pick abilities from the 3 trees (warrior/rogue/mage) and depending on how much points you put into the trees you could then select a specialization tree:

true warrior 
true mage
true rogue
warrior/rogue hybrid
warrior/mage hybrid
mage/rogue hybrid
jack of all trades 

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 10 mai 2012 - 06:56 .

[LolaLei]

That's an interesting idea nightcobra8928! I could just imagine them trying to infuse Templars with Lyrium markings lol.

I suspect using red lyrium dust would make the Templars stronger than normal but it would also drive them mad quicker, so I imagine we'd run into a lot of derranged Templars trying to kill anything or anyone in their way, but it wouldn't be to the degree that Meredith was because it would be taken in smaller quantities.

[nightcobra]

having your character struggle for control of his/her sanity and not fall into paranoia like meredith. or maybe choose to embrace this state of mind if it means to acquire more power to reach your goals.

kinda like the hunger in the "mask of the betrayer".

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 10 mai 2012 - 07:26 .

[LolaLei]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

having your character struggle for control of his/her sanity and not fall into paranoia like meredith. or maybe choose to embrace this state of mind if it means to acquire more power to reach your goals.

kinda like the hunger in the "mask of the betrayer"

That would be pretty mental wouldn't it!

[Dave of Canada]

I'd hope not, let people do rational decisions themselves and let extremists be extremists without the excuse of insanity. Turning either side into insane drug-addled freaks isn't going to help anything and I think most people disliked everybody going insane at the end of DA2.

[LolaLei]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'd hope not, let people do rational decisions themselves and let extremists be extremists without the excuse of insanity. Turning either side into insane drug-addled freaks isn't going to help anything and I think most people disliked everybody going insane at the end of DA2.

True. I'd like DA3 to make reference to red lyrium and the idol, if only to find out what it's made from (aside from lyrium lol.)

[Jessihatt]

Be interesting if the protagonist was a lab rat and had to fight for their sanity.
That could result in some pretty Alice in Wonderland like quests which were just in the player's head.

[Cantina]

Well to be blunt the “Lyrium Idol” was a plot device forced on the player. I cannot explain more do to spoilers.

My thought is considering the Chantry has control of the Lyrium trade, I bet they are aware of red Lyrium and the side effects.

What I am wondering is since the Chantry has fallen to pieces, what secrets are going to be exposed or lost.


Edit: And no I don't want something like the "Hunger bar" from NW2MB, that game was a piece of crap.

Modifié par Cantina, 10 mai 2012 - 08:13 .

[nightcobra]

Cantina wrote...

Well to be blunt the “Lyrium Idol” was a plot device forced on the player. I cannot explain more do to spoilers.

My thought is considering the Chantry has control of the Lyrium trade, I bet they are aware of red Lyrium and the side effects.

What I am wondering is since the Chantry has fallen to pieces, what secrets are going to be exposed or lost.


Edit: And no I don't want something like the "Hunger bar" from NW2MB, that game was a piece of crap.

i meant the hunger as in the choices you made like saving that tree spirit or consuming it, not really about a bar or anything like that.

i did love the plot of nw2 and nw2mb though.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 10 mai 2012 - 08:30 .

[LolaLei]

Cantina wrote...

Well to be blunt the “Lyrium Idol” was a plot device forced on the player. I cannot explain more do to spoilers.

My thought is considering the Chantry has control of the Lyrium trade, I bet they are aware of red Lyrium and the side effects.

What I am wondering is since the Chantry has fallen to pieces, what secrets are going to be exposed or lost.


Edit: And no I don't want something like the "Hunger bar" from NW2MB, that game was a piece of crap.

Yeah, that's why I wonder if we will hear anything else about red lyrium and the idol simply because it is a plot device.

I'm hoping we will find out some interesting Chantry secrets, maybe we will find out that Andraste was a powerful Mage or that Templars are indeed given lyrium to get them addicted enough to keep them under control.

[nightcobra]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'd hope not, let people do rational decisions themselves and let extremists be extremists without the excuse of insanity. Turning either side into insane drug-addled freaks isn't going to help anything and I think most people disliked everybody going insane at the end of DA2.

in a war like this there's bound to  exist some groups that do unsavory/shady/unethical things in desperation.
it's not hard to imagine an offshoot group of templars and scholars that would sanction this kind of thing.
same goes for some mages.

kinda coincindes with the supposed "saving the world from itself" motif i heard DA3 is having.


edit: i agree that everyone being crazy like at da2's end is bad but if it's just some characters i wouldn't go against it.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 10 mai 2012 - 08:28 .

[Sutekh]

Cantina wrote...

Well to be blunt the “Lyrium Idol” was a plot device forced on the player. I cannot explain more do to spoilers.

My thought is considering the Chantry has control of the Lyrium trade, I bet they are aware of red Lyrium and the side effects.

Seeing the dwarves, who've lived in the stuff for millenia, weren't aware of it, I don't see how the Chantry would be, considering they're consumers and not producers. 

But you're right. This thread would be much better in the spoilers zone. I'd be very interested to know why you think the Lyrium Idol was a plot device forced on the player any more than the Blight, the Joining or the various origins of DAO. A plot point is a plot point. That doesn't make any sense to me without further elaboration.

@OP: This red lyrium and Templars idea of yours could be the basis for very interesting side-quests, IMO.

[LolaLei]

Thanks Sutekh, it just seemed like the sort of thing that could plausibly happen in DA3 what with the Mage/Templar rebellion and everything. And you're right I should have posted it somewhere else in hindsight lol.

Thinking about it, I'm not sure I'd want the new pc or any of the companions taking the stuff, simply because it would be a difficult thing to impliment side effect wise, and from a storyline point of view it would work better if it was something that was being used exclusively by perhaps a small group of rogue Templars, who have no idea of the side effects until it's too late.

Modifié par LolaLei, 10 mai 2012 - 08:35 .

[LolaLei]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

The lyrium idol is a major cliffhanger in DA2.
I presume that there will be some sort of closure regarding that in DA3. As LolaLei said you could see more of the lyrium in the thaig and the wardens went there too...............

Sandal could handle it without doing funny stuff like becoming, .....you know.... (no spoilers right).

Maybe Sandal took some red lyrium with him... though we probably would have noticed if he had.

[nightcobra]

LolaLei wrote...

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

The lyrium idol is a major cliffhanger in DA2.
I presume that there will be some sort of closure regarding that in DA3. As LolaLei said you could see more of the lyrium in the thaig and the wardens went there too...............

Sandal could handle it without doing funny stuff like becoming, .....you know.... (no spoilers right).

Maybe Sandal took some red lyrium with him... though we probably would have noticed if he had.

he's able to dispose of that lyrium idol without it affecting him.
as for me, the red lyrium and the idol aren't as much of the same thing but rather i believe it was the presence of the idol itself that warped the very nature of surrounding lyrium into crimson red.

[LolaLei]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

The lyrium idol is a major cliffhanger in DA2.
I presume that there will be some sort of closure regarding that in DA3. As LolaLei said you could see more of the lyrium in the thaig and the wardens went there too...............

Sandal could handle it without doing funny stuff like becoming, .....you know.... (no spoilers right).

Maybe Sandal took some red lyrium with him... though we probably would have noticed if he had.

he's able to dispose of that lyrium idol without it affecting him.
as for me, the red lyrium and the idol aren't as much of the same thing but rather i believe it was the presence of the idol itself that warped the very nature of surrounding lyrium into crimson red.

Oooo I hadn't thought of that! I presumed maybe it had something to do with the way in which they made stone gollums, perhaps the red lyrium was originally normal lyrium that is mixed with the blood or "essence" of a living creature, kinda like how they used to fill the gollums up with lyrium whilst the dwarf was still alive inside.

[BioFan (Official)]

I think there's a lot to this red lyrium and what exactly happened to Meredith that was supposed to be explored in Exalted March, but i think it will show up in DA3

[brushyourteeth]

Interesting topic, OP!

In this interview D.G. was talking about the Templars and he said this:

"...if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards."

So the rogue Templars should be able to use their abilities without lyrium, but the veterans are probably all addicted. Plus if they find that between the might of the pro-Chantry Templars, Seekers, and Mages they've bitten off more than they can chew, I could definitely see them getting desperate for lyrium in any form. Especially if red lyrium comes at a discount price. They won't be getting salaried wages from the Divine anymore after all. After learning about Meredith's freak out though, I don't think the Chantry side will choose to touch the stuff.

Fenris said that warriors like him are "rare" in Tevinter, so he's definitely not the only one with lyrium tattooed all over him. If the Tevinter Magisters are the ones that do that, and they're not famous for their caution or good judgment, I could definitely see them snatching red lyrium up and giving it a shot on whatever poor shmuck got left in their path. Surely word got around about the idol, and Magisters tend to have no scruples about obtaining magical power however they could.

But since we already went there with Fenris, I don't see it playing a big roll in DAIII. Unless it's a situation where they've created a monster and we have to clean up. Templars using red lyrium sounds much more likely to me if it's to play a part in the next game. But really, the rogue Templars are already impressive enough bad guys even without some kind of extra corruption.

On the topic of Tevinter mages, though, I think the possibility of them guzzling red lyrium potions sounds pretty terrifying. They'll definitely have something to say about the Chantry/Mage situation, and like I said - red lyrium would probably be pretty attractive to them. If it corrupts in potion form even near as much as the idol did, that sounds dangerous enough to me.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 10 mai 2012 - 10:29 .

[LolaLei]

I suspect the Templars probably take lyrium daily at the very least... not because they'll lose their abilities quicker, but because they are addicted so they'd be taking the stuff at any given opportunity I would imagine lol. Alistair never took lyrium so the fact that he can use his abilities is just a plot hole I think, either that or David meant that Alistair can still use the abilities he was taught in the Order but without the extra advantage he'd have if he had taken lyrium.

****, I hadn't even considered what would happen if Mages started guzzling the stuff! Utter carnage!

... I suppose that would help the veil break a little quicker lol.

[Reznore57]

Maybe red lyrium is somehow related to blood magic.
Because mages can channel the fade (call it blue magic)
And they can channel magic thru blood (red magic)

Now it's hard to know about the difference between the two , because pure blue lyrium is also a dangerous thing.
What templars use is a form of lyrium which is treated somehow , (i don't recommend licking a lyrium vein , i remember reading lyrium tends to burn).
I also remember stories about dwarf mining lyrium (blue , i guess) and losing their minds as the years pass.

So I guess it's still up to the writer to tell us in the future what's so special about red lyrium.
Because The idol is something that seems special beyond the lyrium thing .Could have been cursed ...