My Red Lyrium theory is, (possible spoiler ahead)
that it makes people sick, until they die. The big battle at the end with statues animating and Meredith leaping about like a giant flea on steroids, was nothing more than a figment of Varric's imagination, told to get Cassandra off his back. The actual battle (which we did not see) was probably very anti-climatic, and boring, so Varric, the master storyteller, had to spice it up. For all we know, Hawke just walked up to Meredith and "Murder-knifed" her as she was drooling in a lyrium-poisoned stupor.
I prefer that as canon, as opposed to the alternative, where an innate lump of radioactive metal can make rocks and mortar walk about, and cause humans to turn into Superman/woman until they melt away. That is just too much to handle, even for a fantasy game.
Should red lyrium make a come back in DA3 regarding the Templars.
Débuté par
LolaLei
, mai 10 2012 06:37
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#102
Posté 23 mai 2012 - 06:04
LolaLei
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Dakota Strider wrote...
My Red Lyrium theory is, (possible spoiler ahead)
that it makes people sick, until they die. The big battle at the end with statues animating and Meredith leaping about like a giant flea on steroids, was nothing more than a figment of Varric's imagination, told to get Cassandra off his back. The actual battle (which we did not see) was probably very anti-climatic, and boring, so Varric, the master storyteller, had to spice it up. For all we know, Hawke just walked up to Meredith and "Murder-knifed" her as she was drooling in a lyrium-poisoned stupor.
I prefer that as canon, as opposed to the alternative, where an innate lump of radioactive metal can make rocks and mortar walk about, and cause humans to turn into Superman/woman until they melt away. That is just too much to handle, even for a fantasy game.
LMAO! If that's the case then no wonder Varric vamped the story up a bit!
#103
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Posté 24 mai 2012 - 12:00
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Dakota Strider wrote...
My Red Lyrium theory is, (possible spoiler ahead)
that it makes people sick, until they die. The big battle at the end with statues animating and Meredith leaping about like a giant flea on steroids, was nothing more than a figment of Varric's imagination, told to get Cassandra off his back. The actual battle (which we did not see) was probably very anti-climatic, and boring, so Varric, the master storyteller, had to spice it up. For all we know, Hawke just walked up to Meredith and "Murder-knifed" her as she was drooling in a lyrium-poisoned stupor.
I prefer that as canon, as opposed to the alternative, where an innate lump of radioactive metal can make rocks and mortar walk about, and cause humans to turn into Superman/woman until they melt away. That is just too much to handle, even for a fantasy game.
Read your comment with interest Dakota.
Wonder what you make of Orsino in the final battle...........Love to hear that theory too.
#104
Posté 24 mai 2012 - 12:33
Rorschachinstein
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Dakota Strider wrote...
My Red Lyrium theory is, (possible spoiler ahead)
that it makes people sick, until they die. The big battle at the end with statues animating and Meredith leaping about like a giant flea on steroids, was nothing more than a figment of Varric's imagination, told to get Cassandra off his back. The actual battle (which we did not see) was probably very anti-climatic, and boring, so Varric, the master storyteller, had to spice it up. For all we know, Hawke just walked up to Meredith and "Murder-knifed" her as she was drooling in a lyrium-poisoned stupor.
I prefer that as canon, as opposed to the alternative, where an innate lump of radioactive metal can make rocks and mortar walk about, and cause humans to turn into Superman/woman until they melt away. That is just too much to handle, even for a fantasy game.
WAT?
#105
Posté 24 mai 2012 - 02:17
wsandista
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Red Lyrium is tainted Lyrium. The taint makes it much more potent and creates holes to the Fade, so Meredith was actually possessed by several pride demons which gave her super-powers.
#106
Posté 24 mai 2012 - 02:42
Dakota Strider
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sjpelkessjpeler wrote...
Wonder what you make of Orsino in the final battle...........Love to hear that theory too.
Orsino, was dabbling in necromancy long before we met him. It is possible, that the final battle is the first time he actually used Blood Magic itself. Regardless, being as powerful a mage as he was, when he willingly used blood magic to turn himself into an abomination, its possible that he not only allowed a very powerful demon into himself, but perhaps more than one. The necromatic knowledge he had accumalated allowed him to meld some of the recently killed corpses in the area, in an even more morbid form of Frankenstein's monster. That is the How.
The Why? Perhaps he was emotionally unstable all along. He was from an oppressed race, living as an oppressed class, and apparently studied heavily in the macabre. Orsino was one giant case of depression waiting to happen. He finally decided to do his version of suicide bomber, and attempt to take as many Templars as he could with him. He probably expected to keep enough control to direct his attacks at the Templars, not his allies.
#107
Posté 24 mai 2012 - 02:51
Dakota Strider
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Rorschachinstein wrote...
Dakota Strider wrote...
My Red Lyrium theory is, (possible spoiler ahead)
that it makes people sick, until they die. The big battle at the end with statues animating and Meredith leaping about like a giant flea on steroids, was nothing more than a figment of Varric's imagination, told to get Cassandra off his back. The actual battle (which we did not see) was probably very anti-climatic, and boring, so Varric, the master storyteller, had to spice it up. For all we know, Hawke just walked up to Meredith and "Murder-knifed" her as she was drooling in a lyrium-poisoned stupor.
I prefer that as canon, as opposed to the alternative, where an innate lump of radioactive metal can make rocks and mortar walk about, and cause humans to turn into Superman/woman until they melt away. That is just too much to handle, even for a fantasy game.
WAT?
I am guessing this is the first time you have heard about the Varric was full of BullStuff, plausible deniability conspiracy theory. This allows the DA team to totally disregard any part of DA2 in future installments, because they will just claim that Varric exaggerated almost all of the story he told the Seekers. So any plot holes, outrageous FF style combat, ugly elves, over the top behavior from companions, or anything else can just be shrugged off by simply saying "DA2 was just Varric telling a story, which you acted out as Hawke. Most of it was lies, so disregard anything in DA2 that contradicts canon from DAO or is contradicted in DA3."
For someone like myself that likes consistancy in a campaign world, and hated the many changes they made from DAO, this is a rather comforting theory. We can consider DA2 as an entertaining tall tale, that greatly exaggerated many of the events in and around Kirkwall. There is no doubt that "something" happened in Kirkwall, but just exactly how it happened seems to be a great mystery. This gives the DA team the ability to fix anything, without even worse retcons.
#108
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Posté 24 mai 2012 - 02:59
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Dakota Strider wrote...
sjpelkessjpeler wrote...
Wonder what you make of Orsino in the final battle...........Love to hear that theory too.
Orsino, was dabbling in necromancy long before we met him. It is possible, that the final battle is the first time he actually used Blood Magic itself. Regardless, being as powerful a mage as he was, when he willingly used blood magic to turn himself into an abomination, its possible that he not only allowed a very powerful demon into himself, but perhaps more than one. The necromatic knowledge he had accumalated allowed him to meld some of the recently killed corpses in the area, in an even more morbid form of Frankenstein's monster. That is the How.
The Why? Perhaps he was emotionally unstable all along. He was from an oppressed race, living as an oppressed class, and apparently studied heavily in the macabre. Orsino was one giant case of depression waiting to happen. He finally decided to do his version of suicide bomber, and attempt to take as many Templars as he could with him. He probably expected to keep enough control to direct his attacks at the Templars, not his allies.
Think we will both get pecked and feathered and put on fire but I felt the same way about Orsino.
Meredith too up untill a point for that matter.
The problem I had with the final fight was that there was no different outcome. You just had to fight both of them either other way.
The red lyrium drove Meredith's paranoia even further and faster in a the direction she was heading imho. There was something fishy going on there.
Whether it was Varric or that was what really went down do not know, only the writers do know the intend
. But Orsino just happened or this too is something Varric made more colourfull.If you put DA2 entirely in Varric's perspective though the whole role playing thing is down to below zero I think. Decisions you made had not real impact anyway and as I wrote in the above well...
#109
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 08:18
Gibb_Shepard
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God no. Any device that is placed into a story solely to make people mustache twirling evil should be burned at the stake quick. A story where the antagonist actually has reasons and can actually be empathized with is far more interesting. You know, like dao.
#110
Posté 02 juin 2012 - 08:38
brushyourteeth
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So... I just stumbled across this codex entry and I'm curious to hear whether you guys think this could be related to the Pimeval Thaig and the red lyrium idol. It's.... way creepy.
#111
Posté 02 juin 2012 - 09:07
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I think it is , you find this staff in the Primeval Thaig actually.
Two population of dwarves vanishing and a wierd lyrium thing ....my guess is the lyrium turned the dwarf in profane.Rock posessed creature.
Meredith turned to rock.Maybe some red lyrium just suck your life essence out of you.I guess it's been powered up by some spell too.Maybe some sort of blood magic that has been lost in time.
Two population of dwarves vanishing and a wierd lyrium thing ....my guess is the lyrium turned the dwarf in profane.Rock posessed creature.
Meredith turned to rock.Maybe some red lyrium just suck your life essence out of you.I guess it's been powered up by some spell too.Maybe some sort of blood magic that has been lost in time.
#112
Posté 02 juin 2012 - 03:55
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brushyourteeth wrote...
So... I just stumbled across this codex entry and I'm curious to hear whether you guys think this could be related to the Pimeval Thaig and the red lyrium idol. It's.... way creepy.
Okay, exploring further we find this:
Thousands of years later in 9:31 Dragon, Hawke found the staff in the ancient and mysterious Primeval Thaig, indicating that it and Valdasine Thaig might be one and the same. This however would make little sense as it, among other things, is noted that the Primeval Thaig unlike Valdasine is not mentioned in the Memories.
Though Reznore57 is right - you find this staff as loot in the Primeval Thaig. It doesn't seem to be directly connected to the idol or look very much like red lyrium.
**ASUNDER SPOILER**
In Asunder, Wynne has a staff that she says the Warden gave her, but it's glowy red and obviously evil. It kind of makes her go crazy at one point too. If I remember correctly Evangeline shatters it before the end of the book.
#113
Posté 02 juin 2012 - 04:17
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Yes wynne got also a wierd staff ,given by the warden.
I have no idea where the warden found it , but you go into the deep road in DA:0 too.
It can be a bunch of artifact made a really long time ago .
Now we can wonder why would anyone craft such things?
It looks like some poisoned gift i would give to an ennemy.And again why would dwarves hold a staff?
They have no mages...In Witch Hunt we found out that some elves from Arlathan took refuges among the dwarves.
Maybe Tevinter offer this magical stuff to elves , those things made them go mortal , and the elves unawared cursed the dwarves too.
Maybe the more the idol /staff drain , the more it became powerful. ..
And that's a lot of "maybe" ^^.
I have no idea where the warden found it , but you go into the deep road in DA:0 too.
It can be a bunch of artifact made a really long time ago .
Now we can wonder why would anyone craft such things?
It looks like some poisoned gift i would give to an ennemy.And again why would dwarves hold a staff?
They have no mages...In Witch Hunt we found out that some elves from Arlathan took refuges among the dwarves.
Maybe Tevinter offer this magical stuff to elves , those things made them go mortal , and the elves unawared cursed the dwarves too.
Maybe the more the idol /staff drain , the more it became powerful. ..
And that's a lot of "maybe" ^^.
#114
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Posté 03 juin 2012 - 09:52
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brushyourteeth wrote...
brushyourteeth wrote...
So... I just stumbled across this codex entry and I'm curious to hear whether you guys think this could be related to the Pimeval Thaig and the red lyrium idol. It's.... way creepy.
Okay, exploring further we find this:
Thousands of years later in 9:31 Dragon, Hawke found the staff in the ancient and mysterious Primeval Thaig, indicating that it and Valdasine Thaig might be one and the same. This however would make little sense as it, among other things, is noted that the Primeval Thaig unlike Valdasine is not mentioned in the Memories.
Though Reznore57 is right - you find this staff as loot in the Primeval Thaig. It doesn't seem to be directly connected to the idol or look very much like red lyrium.
**ASUNDER SPOILER**
In Asunder, Wynne has a staff that she says the Warden gave her, but it's glowy red and obviously evil. It kind of makes her go crazy at one point too. If I remember correctly Evangeline shatters it before the end of the book.
Hmm. very interesting indeed.
This gives cause to all kinds of speculation. As the dwarves are very accurate in documenting everything regarding their history you'd expect that the primeval thaig would be mentioned there. I've been looking for a complete map of the dwarven underground but helas wasn't able to find one.
Do not think that the primeval thaig is Valdasine because there are no houses there for dwarves to live in. To me the whole thaig looked like a gigantic shrine of sorts. The weapon found in the treasure pile could indicate that dwarves of the house Valsasine build the primeval thaig or at least had a part in it. Maybe the rock wraiths are deformed members of that house?
The Valdasine house was the leading house in lyrium trade. They had the most connections to the topside and Tevinter was their biggest client so to speak because they had the biggest need for the lyrium. What if they made some kind of pact and Tevinter mages with the dwarves corrupted the lyrium in the primeval thaig for some reason? If you look at pictures in the game you can actually see red lyrium vines 'growing' through/on the walls. As far as we know there are no other places where it exists and the red lyrium was unknown to Bartrand and Varric.
#115
Posté 03 juin 2012 - 10:04
nightcobra
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sjpelkessjpeler wrote...
brushyourteeth wrote...
brushyourteeth wrote...
So... I just stumbled across this codex entry and I'm curious to hear whether you guys think this could be related to the Pimeval Thaig and the red lyrium idol. It's.... way creepy.
Okay, exploring further we find this:
Thousands of years later in 9:31 Dragon, Hawke found the staff in the ancient and mysterious Primeval Thaig, indicating that it and Valdasine Thaig might be one and the same. This however would make little sense as it, among other things, is noted that the Primeval Thaig unlike Valdasine is not mentioned in the Memories.
Though Reznore57 is right - you find this staff as loot in the Primeval Thaig. It doesn't seem to be directly connected to the idol or look very much like red lyrium.
**ASUNDER SPOILER**
In Asunder, Wynne has a staff that she says the Warden gave her, but it's glowy red and obviously evil. It kind of makes her go crazy at one point too. If I remember correctly Evangeline shatters it before the end of the book.
Hmm. very interesting indeed.
This gives cause to all kinds of speculation. As the dwarves are very accurate in documenting everything regarding their history you'd expect that the primeval thaig would be mentioned there. I've been looking for a complete map of the dwarven underground but helas wasn't able to find one.
Do not think that the primeval thaig is Valdasine because there are no houses there for dwarves to live in. To me the whole thaig looked like a gigantic shrine of sorts. The weapon found in the treasure pile could indicate that dwarves of the house Valsasine build the primeval thaig or at least had a part in it. Maybe the rock wraiths are deformed members of that house?
The Valdasine house was the leading house in lyrium trade. They had the most connections to the topside and Tevinter was their biggest client so to speak because they had the biggest need for the lyrium. What if they made some kind of pact and Tevinter mages with the dwarves corrupted the lyrium in the primeval thaig for some reason? If you look at pictures in the game you can actually see red lyrium vines 'growing' through/on the walls. As far as we know there are no other places where it exists and the red lyrium was unknown to Bartrand and Varric.
my guess is that the incident with the red lyrium was covered up, if something is not on the shaperate it's as if the event never happened as far as the dwarves are concerned and we've seen that kind of thing happen in DA:origins so i think that's how information on red lyrium is nowhere to be seen or very difficult to find.
#116
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Posté 03 juin 2012 - 11:10
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my guess is that the incident with the red lyrium was covered up, if something is not on the shaperate it's as if the event never happened as far as the dwarves are concerned and we've seen that kind of thing happen in DA:origins so i think that's how information on red lyrium is nowhere to be seen or very difficult to find
Been thinking about things being covered up by the dwarves but could not think of something. The legion of the dead f.e. were reestablished and taken into the shaperate records.
Why would the dwarves want to cover up such an important feat? They are known for experimenting with lyrium and trying to get the most out of it. Kal'Hirol is a great example for this and so are the golems overall. Dwarves are not known for their subtelty regarding others of their kind, all needs to come to an end I think for that matter.
The connection between the house Valdasine and the primeval thaig seems very plausible and IMHO they dabbeled in something that grew over their heads. They could not oversee the concequences of their actions. And if all this was done in secret the shaperate could never have been informed and make records of it.
my guess is that the incident with the red lyrium was covered up, if something is not on the shaperate it's as if the event never happened as far as the dwarves are concerned and we've seen that kind of thing happen in DA:origins so i think that's how information on red lyrium is nowhere to be seen or very difficult to find
Been thinking about things being covered up by the dwarves but could not think of something. The legion of the dead f.e. were reestablished and taken into the shaperate records.
Why would the dwarves want to cover up such an important feat? They are known for experimenting with lyrium and trying to get the most out of it. Kal'Hirol is a great example for this and so are the golems overall. Dwarves are not known for their subtelty regarding others of their kind, all needs to come to an end I think for that matter.
The connection between the house Valdasine and the primeval thaig seems very plausible and IMHO they dabbeled in something that grew over their heads. They could not oversee the concequences of their actions. And if all this was done in secret the shaperate could never have been informed and make records of it.
Modifié par sjpelkessjpeler, 03 juin 2012 - 11:11 .
#117
Posté 03 juin 2012 - 08:52
brushyourteeth
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sjpelkessjpeler wrote...
@ nightcobra8928
my guess is that the incident with the red lyrium was covered up, if something is not on the shaperate it's as if the event never happened as far as the dwarves are concerned and we've seen that kind of thing happen in DA:origins so i think that's how information on red lyrium is nowhere to be seen or very difficult to find
Been thinking about things being covered up by the dwarves but could not think of something. The legion of the dead f.e. were reestablished and taken into the shaperate records.
Why would the dwarves want to cover up such an important feat? They are known for experimenting with lyrium and trying to get the most out of it. Kal'Hirol is a great example for this and so are the golems overall. Dwarves are not known for their subtelty regarding others of their kind, all needs to come to an end I think for that matter.
The connection between the house Valdasine and the primeval thaig seems very plausible and IMHO they dabbeled in something that grew over their heads. They could not oversee the concequences of their actions. And if all this was done in secret the shaperate could never have been informed and make records of it.
Wow, this is exactly what I was thinking about this morning!
The dwarves keep great records, but when something shameful happens they have no qualms with erasing it from their histories. This happens to you as a dwarven noble in DA:O - your existence is written out of the histories during your origin and when you return as a Warden half the dwarves there pretend that they've never met you before. Which goes to show that the dwarves are stubborn about upholding the "that never happened" mentality, to the point that it would make sense for it to be completely forgotten within a few generations. Unlike most elves or humans, they wouldn't go on talking about it more behind closed doors simply because it's a secret and secrets are fun. They're actually kind of religious about choosing to forget.
#118
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Posté 03 juin 2012 - 09:14
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brushyourteeth wrote...
sjpelkessjpeler wrote...
@ nightcobra8928
my guess is that the incident with the red lyrium was covered up, if something is not on the shaperate it's as if the event never happened as far as the dwarves are concerned and we've seen that kind of thing happen in DA:origins so i think that's how information on red lyrium is nowhere to be seen or very difficult to find
Been thinking about things being covered up by the dwarves but could not think of something. The legion of the dead f.e. were reestablished and taken into the shaperate records.
Why would the dwarves want to cover up such an important feat? They are known for experimenting with lyrium and trying to get the most out of it. Kal'Hirol is a great example for this and so are the golems overall. Dwarves are not known for their subtelty regarding others of their kind, all needs to come to an end I think for that matter.
The connection between the house Valdasine and the primeval thaig seems very plausible and IMHO they dabbeled in something that grew over their heads. They could not oversee the concequences of their actions. And if all this was done in secret the shaperate could never have been informed and make records of it.
Wow, this is exactly what I was thinking about this morning!
The dwarves keep great records, but when something shameful happens they have no qualms with erasing it from their histories. This happens to you as a dwarven noble in DA:O - your existence is written out of the histories during your origin and when you return as a Warden half the dwarves there pretend that they've never met you before. Which goes to show that the dwarves are stubborn about upholding the "that never happened" mentality, to the point that it would make sense for it to be completely forgotten within a few generations. Unlike most elves or humans, they wouldn't go on talking about it more behind closed doors simply because it's a secret and secrets are fun. They're actually kind of religious about choosing to forget.
Yeah, the dwarves have 'their principles' I think. But they also have a great nose for opportunities and do not think any house that knows about the red lyrium would want to miss up on it.
The highest goal a dwarve can archive is to become a paragorn is it not? The red lyrium is something that could make them one........Producing golems wasn't 'dwarve friendly' to say the least but the inventor became a person of worship just the same. The idol was cursed but as we can see there is more red lyrium in the primeval thaig:
#119
Posté 03 juin 2012 - 10:04
nightcobra
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sjpelkessjpeler wrote...
Yeah, the dwarves have 'their principles' I think. But they also have a great nose for opportunities and do not think any house that knows about the red lyrium would want to miss up on it.
The highest goal a dwarve can archive is to become a paragorn is it not? The red lyrium is something that could make them one........Producing golems wasn't 'dwarve friendly' to say the least but the inventor became a person of worship just the same. The idol was cursed but as we can see there is more red lyrium in the primeval thaig:
maybe it was something so horrible and horrifying that they saw no other choice than to cover it all up.
you saw what it did to bartrand, imagine a whole dwarven family finding a huge amount of the stuff, what do you think would happen? i'd say paranoia, betrayal, fraticide, if that were to spread in the dwarven cities...imagine the chaos.
#120
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Posté 03 juin 2012 - 10:32
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The idol was cursed; we do not know if pure red lyrium is cursed too....................
The house that vanished maybe did things to the 'new found' lyrium with help of the Tevinters (blood magic?)
that made them go insane by even touching it. There is to little known and it leaves open all kinds of speculation.
The idol was cursed; we do not know if pure red lyrium is cursed too....................
The house that vanished maybe did things to the 'new found' lyrium with help of the Tevinters (blood magic?)
that made them go insane by even touching it. There is to little known and it leaves open all kinds of speculation.
Modifié par sjpelkessjpeler, 03 juin 2012 - 10:35 .
#121
Posté 03 juin 2012 - 10:44
nightcobra
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sjpelkessjpeler wrote...
@ nightcobra8928
The idol was cursed; we do not know if pure red lyrium is cursed too....................
The house that vanished maybe did things to the 'new found' lyrium with help of the Tevinters (blood magic?)
that made them go insane by even touching it. There is to little known and it leaves open all kinds of speculation.
i was just making up a possibility on what could have happened:whistle:
....needs more broodmothers:devil:
Modifié par nightcobra8928, 03 juin 2012 - 10:44 .
#122
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Posté 03 juin 2012 - 11:24
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nightcobra8928 wrote...
sjpelkessjpeler wrote...
@ nightcobra8928
The idol was cursed; we do not know if pure red lyrium is cursed too....................
The house that vanished maybe did things to the 'new found' lyrium with help of the Tevinters (blood magic?)
that made them go insane by even touching it. There is to little known and it leaves open all kinds of speculation.
i was just making up a possibility on what could have happened:whistle:
....needs more broodmothers:devil:
.
There are plenty of opportunities that can still happen in the lost thaig.
* The dwarves might want to find a way to refine the red lyrium in the thaig and its surroundings to enhance its power and possibilities (blood magic?)
* The wardens were there looking for something, thinking the red lyrium has something to do with the taint?
* The (intelligent) darkspawn want to use it in their advantage because there were darkspawn present when Hawke went there.
* A high dragon was a guardian in the room before the idol could be reached so maybe even some old god influence?
Just throwing things out there. Everything is possible if nothing is known about it
.So every idea could be made plausible regarding the red lyrium.
Ha! Would like to hear your thought about it!
Modifié par sjpelkessjpeler, 03 juin 2012 - 11:34 .
#123
Posté 04 juin 2012 - 02:39
brushyourteeth
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If red lyrium does make a reappearance in DAIII, that means it will definitely call for the reappearance of red lyrium's worst enemy:
https://encrypted-tb...sCGjQCUCziKLbLA
https://encrypted-tb...sCGjQCUCziKLbLA
#125
Posté 04 juin 2012 - 06:05
brushyourteeth
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LolaLei wrote...
ENCHANTMENT!!!
I approve!
I really wish we could have seen Sandal rush in and gorilla stomp idol-possessed half-red-lyrium-crystalized Meredith into submission. That final battle really should have been his.
"BOOM"
