162 réponses à ce sujet

[N7Infernox]

I really love the whole set piece and meta-dialogue wheel they implemented, but the Catalyst and everything that comes out of his mouth just ruins it. That, and the O.0 that is synthesis.

[LadyWench]

araisikewai wrote...

What's the implication of shaping the Catalyst chamber exactly like a dialogue wheel?
It's to remind US that Shepard is actually INSIDE that game mechanic.
He is inside that little shaped dialogue wheel instead of in actual catalyst chamber. Inside the game mechanic IN the game. Inception style.
Like being inside the game piece instead of inside the game, a dream within a dream if you will. It's time to wakeup.
(but that's only if you believe in IT though)

I hope hope hope you are right. At first, I loved the premise of IT, then it became clear that it was NOT BioWare's intention (why else would they be calling the VAs back in to do lines and DLC be released months later if it was planned and being co-developed all along, n'est-ce pas?) But, I still have hope. Not even the Reapers Catalyst Hologod Starbrat Stupid Immersion-Breaking Poo-Poo Head Liar Kid can take that away (until EC drops, I guess, lol).

[In Exile]

Seival wrote...

Well, Control is actually Paragon option. Shepard is still alive (as a new Catalist or a Reaper), and doesn't have to kill anyone in order to stop the Reapers. Besides... Control explosion is blue-colored

No, it's clearly the renegade option. Ypu get a lower EMS floor for control if you keep the reaper base (the ME2 renegade choice).

If you choose the destroy the reaper base, then destroy has the lower floor. Destroy is the paragon choice.

[Seival]

In Exile wrote...

Seival wrote...

Well, Control is actually Paragon option. Shepard is still alive (as a new Catalist or a Reaper), and doesn't have to kill anyone in order to stop the Reapers. Besides... Control explosion is blue-colored

No, it's clearly the renegade option. Ypu get a lower EMS floor for control if you keep the reaper base (the ME2 renegade choice).

If you choose the destroy the reaper base, then destroy has the lower floor. Destroy is the paragon choice.

In short: some Renegade choice made in the past increase chances to have Paragon final. I see nothing bad or illogical in this. This is much closer to reality then blind sticking to Paragon or Renegade. Example...Modern medicine helps a lot of people to survive, but looks like you have no idea what horrific historical facts are behind that medicine. Doctors do Paragon deeds, but a lot of Renegade experiments made these Paragon deeds possible. I suggest you to think about it...

That's why my Paragon Sheperd is not actually just Paragon. She is 100% Paragon and about 20% Renegade. She was like that in both ME1 and ME2. And she is like that in ME3... In mine opinion "just Paragon" = mindless fanatic.


...So, keeping collectors' base doesn't interfere with Control being pure Paragon ending.

Modifié par Seival, 13 mai 2012 - 10:07 .

[Seival]

araisikewai wrote...

What's the implication of shaping the Catalyst chamber exactly like a dialogue wheel?
It's to remind US that Shepard is actually INSIDE that game mechanic.
He is inside that little shaped dialogue wheel instead of in actual catalyst chamber. Inside the game mechanic IN the game. Inception style.
Like being inside the game piece instead of inside the game, a dream within a dream if you will. It's time to wakeup.
(but that's only if you believe in IT though)

Maybe it was done by an accident? It could be one of map designer's initiative, but he/she never explained his/her motives to anyone else. He/she just made a level that looks nice. Well, I can't call current chamber's design nice actually... but devs team could think otherwise.

I'm pretty sure they better rework the chamber's design completely to make it look beautiful, not symbolical... And let players to make the final choice via dialogue options.

Modifié par Seival, 13 mai 2012 - 10:25 .

[Shepard Wins]

OK so can I just jump off the Citadel to the upper or lower left?

[Sdrol117]

This is fantastic.

[RokenR]

Seival wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Seival wrote...

Well, Control is actually Paragon option. Shepard is still alive (as a new Catalist or a Reaper), and doesn't have to kill anyone in order to stop the Reapers. Besides... Control explosion is blue-colored

No, it's clearly the renegade option. Ypu get a lower EMS floor for control if you keep the reaper base (the ME2 renegade choice).

If you choose the destroy the reaper base, then destroy has the lower floor. Destroy is the paragon choice.

In short: some Renegade choice made in the past increase chances to have Paragon final. I see nothing bad or illogical in this. This is much closer to reality then blind sticking to Paragon or Renegade. Example...Modern medicine helps a lot of people to survive, but looks like you have no idea what horrific historical facts are behind that medicine. Doctors do Paragon deeds, but a lot of Renegade experiments made these Paragon deeds possible. I suggest you to think about it...

That's why my Paragon Sheperd is not actually just Paragon. She is 100% Paragon and about 20% Renegade. She was like that in both ME1 and ME2. And she is like that in ME3... In mine opinion "just Paragon" = mindless fanatic.


...So, keeping collectors' base doesn't interfere with Control being pure Paragon ending.

Your passion behind your chosen ending is admirable. However your counter argument really seems like clutching at straws to me.


The only variable that decides whether you get the option of Destroy or Control with low EMS, is based on your paragon/renegade choice at the end of ME2. Nothing else in the game interferes in this equation.

Ergo, they are -directly- connected. Yes, this would mean morally too.

How? Once we have established the direct connection, by your logic it would have to mean that some good came out of leaving the collector base (Renegade option) which resulted in you getting a paragon option, after all there has to be a reason beyond just space magic.

But unless I’m horribly wrong, we didn't see any good come of that choice in ME3, and no, getting a "Paragon" choice as your final decision doesn't count as evidence for the reasons stated above.

In my humble opinion, this shows a direct moral connection between both endings.

I respect your opinion and indeed many of the things you have said may turn out to be true, but even you must see that something is very wrong with the connection between the ME2 choice and the final mystery decision.

Onwards to the EC I guess!

Modifié par RokenR, 13 mai 2012 - 11:10 .

[whitey4444]

This proves that the ending was devised and written around the time of ME1-ME2.

Because there were no middle options in ME3.

[Seival]

RokenR wrote...

Seival wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Seival wrote...

Well, Control is actually Paragon option. Shepard is still alive (as a new Catalist or a Reaper), and doesn't have to kill anyone in order to stop the Reapers. Besides... Control explosion is blue-colored

No, it's clearly the renegade option. Ypu get a lower EMS floor for control if you keep the reaper base (the ME2 renegade choice).

If you choose the destroy the reaper base, then destroy has the lower floor. Destroy is the paragon choice.

In short: some Renegade choice made in the past increase chances to have Paragon final. I see nothing bad or illogical in this. This is much closer to reality then blind sticking to Paragon or Renegade. Example...Modern medicine helps a lot of people to survive, but looks like you have no idea what horrific historical facts are behind that medicine. Doctors do Paragon deeds, but a lot of Renegade experiments made these Paragon deeds possible. I suggest you to think about it...

That's why my Paragon Sheperd is not actually just Paragon. She is 100% Paragon and about 20% Renegade. She was like that in both ME1 and ME2. And she is like that in ME3... In mine opinion "just Paragon" = mindless fanatic.


...So, keeping collectors' base doesn't interfere with Control being pure Paragon ending.

Your passion behind your chosen ending is admirable. However your counter argument really seems like clutching at straws to me.


The only variable that decides whether you get the option of Destroy or Control with low EMS, is based on your paragon/renegade choice at the end of ME2. Nothing else in the game interferes in this equation.

Ergo, they are -directly- connected. Yes, this would mean morally too.

How? Once we have established the direct connection, by your logic it would have to mean that some good came out of leaving the collector base (Renegade option) which resulted in you getting a paragon option, after all there has to be a reason beyond just space magic.

But unless I’m horribly wrong, we didn't see any good come of that choice in ME3, and no, getting a "Paragon" choice as your final decision doesn't count as evidence for the reasons stated above.

In my humble opinion, this shows a direct moral connection between both endings.

I respect your opinion and indeed many of the things you have said may turn out to be true, but even you must see that something is very wrong with the connection between the ME2 choice and the final mystery decision.

Onwards to the EC I guess!

I agree that ME2 and ME3 endings are connected, but I think this is not moral connection. We didn't see many good or bad things happening because of ME2 ending. But we did see that keeping collector's base decrease EMS requirement for Control ending.

Control is Paragon option, while keeping collector's base is Renegade option. Renegade choice leaded to Paragon consequences. Let's see other examples of that in ME Trilogy:

(1) You can kill Rana on Virmire in ME1. This is Renegade option. But it will have Paragon consequences in ME3 - Rana will not kill high ranking asari officers.

(2) You can kill Fist on the Citadel (or let Wrex do it). This is Renegade option. But it will have Paragon consequences in ME2 - Fist will not start new criminal life on Omega.

(3) Cerberus is an organization with 100% Renegade philosophy. Yet, Shepard has no option but cooperate with them. This is pure Renegade choice with a lot of Paragon consequences.

(4) Shepard uses collectors' technologies against them (even if she chooses to destroy collector's base in ME2). Collectors' Armor, assault and particle rife... Reapers' IFF... Again - Renegade options with Paragon consequences.

...And I'm sure there are other examples. So yes, Control is pure Paragon option no matter keeping the collector's base is pure Renegade option. It's ok.

Modifié par Seival, 13 mai 2012 - 12:29 .

[Grimgaww]

Seival wrote...

...giant dialogue-wheel. If we could look at the chamber from above, then we will see something like this:



Wasn't it better to make the final choice via actual dialogue with following cutscene? Also I think that Catalist's chamber appearance should be improved in the Extended Cut.

Very nice man but i don't see the airlock option.

[Seival]

No airlocks please

[RokenR]

Seival wrote...

RokenR wrote...

Seival wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Seival wrote...

Well, Control is actually Paragon option. Shepard is still alive (as a new Catalist or a Reaper), and doesn't have to kill anyone in order to stop the Reapers. Besides... Control explosion is blue-colored

No, it's clearly the renegade option. Ypu get a lower EMS floor for control if you keep the reaper base (the ME2 renegade choice).

If you choose the destroy the reaper base, then destroy has the lower floor. Destroy is the paragon choice.

In short: some Renegade choice made in the past increase chances to have Paragon final. I see nothing bad or illogical in this. This is much closer to reality then blind sticking to Paragon or Renegade. Example...Modern medicine helps a lot of people to survive, but looks like you have no idea what horrific historical facts are behind that medicine. Doctors do Paragon deeds, but a lot of Renegade experiments made these Paragon deeds possible. I suggest you to think about it...

That's why my Paragon Sheperd is not actually just Paragon. She is 100% Paragon and about 20% Renegade. She was like that in both ME1 and ME2. And she is like that in ME3... In mine opinion "just Paragon" = mindless fanatic.


...So, keeping collectors' base doesn't interfere with Control being pure Paragon ending.

Your passion behind your chosen ending is admirable. However your counter argument really seems like clutching at straws to me.


The only variable that decides whether you get the option of Destroy or Control with low EMS, is based on your paragon/renegade choice at the end of ME2. Nothing else in the game interferes in this equation.

Ergo, they are -directly- connected. Yes, this would mean morally too.

How? Once we have established the direct connection, by your logic it would have to mean that some good came out of leaving the collector base (Renegade option) which resulted in you getting a paragon option, after all there has to be a reason beyond just space magic.

But unless I’m horribly wrong, we didn't see any good come of that choice in ME3, and no, getting a "Paragon" choice as your final decision doesn't count as evidence for the reasons stated above.

In my humble opinion, this shows a direct moral connection between both endings.

I respect your opinion and indeed many of the things you have said may turn out to be true, but even you must see that something is very wrong with the connection between the ME2 choice and the final mystery decision.

Onwards to the EC I guess!

I agree that ME2 and ME3 endings are connected, but I think this is not moral connection. We didn't see many good or bad things happening because of ME2 ending. But we did see that keeping collector's base decrease EMS requirement for Control ending.

Control is Paragon option, while keeping collector's base is Renegade option. Renegade choice leaded to Paragon consequences. Let's see other examples of that in ME Trilogy:

(1) You can kill Rana on Virmire in ME1. This is Renegade option. But it will have Paragon consequences in ME3 - Rana will not kill high ranking asari officers.

(2) You can kill Fist on the Citadel (or let Wrex do it). This is Renegade option. But it will have Paragon consequences in ME2 - Fist will not start new criminal life on Omega.

(3) Cerberus is an organization with 100% Renegade philosophy. Yet, Shepard has no option but cooperate with them. This is pure Renegade choice with a lot of Paragon consequences.

(4) Shepard uses collectors' technologies against them (even if she chooses to destroy collector's base in ME2). Collectors' Armor, assault and particle rife... Reapers' IFF... Again - Renegade options with Paragon consequences.

...And I'm sure there are other examples. So yes, Control is pure Paragon option no matter keeping the collector's base is pure Renegade option. It's ok.

I agree with your specific examples, because they show that the renegade choice led to a greater good.

BUT again as I said in my first post, if you wish to use those as examples, where is the greater good shown from keeping the base?? The collector base does not fit this requirement at all.

It's just not shown or implied in anyway throughout ME3.

If you can show me where there greater good is, I'll sympathise with your argument.

[Seival]

RokenR wrote...

Seival wrote...

RokenR wrote...

Seival wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Seival wrote...

Well, Control is actually Paragon option. Shepard is still alive (as a new Catalist or a Reaper), and doesn't have to kill anyone in order to stop the Reapers. Besides... Control explosion is blue-colored

No, it's clearly the renegade option. Ypu get a lower EMS floor for control if you keep the reaper base (the ME2 renegade choice).

If you choose the destroy the reaper base, then destroy has the lower floor. Destroy is the paragon choice.

In short: some Renegade choice made in the past increase chances to have Paragon final. I see nothing bad or illogical in this. This is much closer to reality then blind sticking to Paragon or Renegade. Example...Modern medicine helps a lot of people to survive, but looks like you have no idea what horrific historical facts are behind that medicine. Doctors do Paragon deeds, but a lot of Renegade experiments made these Paragon deeds possible. I suggest you to think about it...

That's why my Paragon Sheperd is not actually just Paragon. She is 100% Paragon and about 20% Renegade. She was like that in both ME1 and ME2. And she is like that in ME3... In mine opinion "just Paragon" = mindless fanatic.


...So, keeping collectors' base doesn't interfere with Control being pure Paragon ending.

Your passion behind your chosen ending is admirable. However your counter argument really seems like clutching at straws to me.


The only variable that decides whether you get the option of Destroy or Control with low EMS, is based on your paragon/renegade choice at the end of ME2. Nothing else in the game interferes in this equation.

Ergo, they are -directly- connected. Yes, this would mean morally too.

How? Once we have established the direct connection, by your logic it would have to mean that some good came out of leaving the collector base (Renegade option) which resulted in you getting a paragon option, after all there has to be a reason beyond just space magic.

But unless I’m horribly wrong, we didn't see any good come of that choice in ME3, and no, getting a "Paragon" choice as your final decision doesn't count as evidence for the reasons stated above.

In my humble opinion, this shows a direct moral connection between both endings.

I respect your opinion and indeed many of the things you have said may turn out to be true, but even you must see that something is very wrong with the connection between the ME2 choice and the final mystery decision.

Onwards to the EC I guess!

I agree that ME2 and ME3 endings are connected, but I think this is not moral connection. We didn't see many good or bad things happening because of ME2 ending. But we did see that keeping collector's base decrease EMS requirement for Control ending.

Control is Paragon option, while keeping collector's base is Renegade option. Renegade choice leaded to Paragon consequences. Let's see other examples of that in ME Trilogy:

(1) You can kill Rana on Virmire in ME1. This is Renegade option. But it will have Paragon consequences in ME3 - Rana will not kill high ranking asari officers.

(2) You can kill Fist on the Citadel (or let Wrex do it). This is Renegade option. But it will have Paragon consequences in ME2 - Fist will not start new criminal life on Omega.

(3) Cerberus is an organization with 100% Renegade philosophy. Yet, Shepard has no option but cooperate with them. This is pure Renegade choice with a lot of Paragon consequences.

(4) Shepard uses collectors' technologies against them (even if she chooses to destroy collector's base in ME2). Collectors' Armor, assault and particle rife... Reapers' IFF... Again - Renegade options with Paragon consequences.

...And I'm sure there are other examples. So yes, Control is pure Paragon option no matter keeping the collector's base is pure Renegade option. It's ok.

I agree with your specific examples, because they show that the renegade choice led to a greater good.

BUT again as I said in my first post, if you wish to use those as examples, where is the greater good shown from keeping the base?? The collector base does not fit this requirement at all.

It's just not shown or implied in anyway throughout ME3.

If you can show me where there greater good is, I'll sympathise with your argument.

Well, the only example we can see right now is that keeping collector's base makes Control easier...

...I hope to see more examples you are talking about in the Extended Cut. Current endings are too... blurry and short.

[Bone3ater]

Art doesn't need your approval!!11! Okay?1! People like you d3stroy 4rtistic integ...int...gre.....something!!11 Entitled gamers are the scourge of the gaming industry1

[Saans Shadow]

That made me giggle :-) Needed that this morning

[N7Infernox]

whitey4444 wrote...

This proves that the ending was devised and written around the time of ME1-ME2.

Because there were no middle options in ME3.

Actually there was only 1, when Liara asks Shepard what her time capsule should say about him/her.

[Seival]

N7Infernox wrote...

whitey4444 wrote...

This proves that the ending was devised and written around the time of ME1-ME2.

Because there were no middle options in ME3.

Actually there was only 1, when Liara asks Shepard what her time capsule should say about him/her.

Hmm... I didn't even tried it out... Doesn't matter... What good could be in that middle option?

[Seival]

FTL forums

[Zolt51]

I am disappoint with this thread.

I was so expecting the first two words of the OP to be: "GIANT GOATSE!"

[brain_damage]

ME3 dialogue wheel has only two choices and the middle one is missing. I think they're trying to tell us something, guys!

[Keirus]

Looks more like a lambda bacteriophage virus except with only 3 tail things.

[Wowky]

Seival wrote...

bro_9009 wrote...

If we rotate this image 180 degrees, Destroy becomes Paragon choice (like persuasion attempts on the wheel). And Control is Renegade, Synthesis - something useless.

Then Investigate should turn into the usual "I should go", or like "Die, you bastard, I'm not going to persuade you". Shame we don't get this in the game.

I don't like this idea. TIM's desire to control the Reapers doesn't make the option renegade. You should look at Control option from another perspective. As I said, in Control ending Shepard can stop the Reaper threat without killing anyone in the process. Even Shepard herself/himself stays alive without any kind of "secret cutscene" involved. She/He just become a new Catalist or Reaper. Control is pure Paragon option.

You mean it's the wuss way out? Get Shepard's balls out of his purse and make some tough choices

Modifié par Wowky, 14 mai 2012 - 12:10 .

[Candidate 88766]

Zolt51 wrote...

I am disappoint with this thread.

I was so expecting the first two words of the OP to be: "GIANT GOATSE!"

You'll never be able to look the ME3 menu the same way again.

[Seival]

FTL forums