310 réponses à ce sujet

[A0170]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

A0170 wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

A0170 wrote...

Yes,
but your forgetting that the Turians only came to Earth after the
Krogans helped them turn the tide on Palaven. Remember, Victus said he
wouldn't commit the Turian fleet to Earth unless the pressure is
releaved on his homeworld. This implies that Palaven is first and
foremost in the minds of the Turian leadership at the moment. Maybe in a
later generation or two would they even consider sacrificing Palaven
but with Victus in charge I just don't see it. 

I haven't forgotten. After the initial invasion, the galaxy was divided, scattered, scared. There's no reason for Victus to abandon his homeworld solely to defend someone else's. We come up with a plan and we unite the galaxy behind that plan. I'm not talking about sacrificing Earth just to save Thessia or vice versa. I'm talking about sacrificing Earth as a last resort to save all life that will ever be born in the galaxy, or in the very worst case scenario, to weaken the Reapers as much as possible so that future cycles might have a chance.

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

A0170 wrote...
I do too, but that still doesn't stop your allies from abandoning your
cause or trying to assassinate you on a later occassion. Asking them to
sacrifice their homeworlds for the cause would undoubtedly generate such
a reaction. Don't get me wrong, I agree that we have to do everything
we can to win. I'm just asking how long we can cross the line before
their convinced that you pose just a great of a threat to their species
as the Reapers do, and therefore respond with what they feel is an
appropiate response.

If they can't see that if we fail defeat the reapers their species is screwed anyway then there's no hope. Crucible or no Crucible you're still asking every race in the galaxy to abandon their homes to gamble on defeating the Reapers at Earth.

This is the ME leadership remember? My god, even with a full fledge Reaper invasion and the promise of the Crucible at the beginning of ME3, their representatives on the Council still refuse to help. Instead they prefered to look after their own territory when obivously a united effort was what we needed. And look at all the hoops we had to jump through just to get their cooperation. The Turians wanted Krogan support, the Krogan wanted a cure for the genophage, and the Salarians wanted you to sabotage it. The Asari wouldn't even join until later. And remember, they had the promise of the Crucible to lure them into participate. How long would those fragile alliances last when they realize we'd want them to commit their forces to a risky military offensive that would leave their homeworlds undefended? Again, I agree with you in that they'd have to do whatever was necessary in the end, but the stupidity of our allied leadership could destroy our chances if we ask them to risk too much.

We have no choice. We risk it all or we lose by default. Also on a related note, I think Bioware really overdid the whole Reaper denial thing just so they could push their "no conventional victory". I get that politicians can be idiotic but they went way past the realms of the believable. This would be like trying to continue appeasement as Poland falls.

Agreed about your first point and that the writers bent over backwards to push the "no conventional victory" theme. But appeasement policy before Poland still happened in real life, showing that we can never underestimate the stupidity of our politicians.

Modifié par A0170, 11 mai 2012 - 01:15 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Head to Ilos with a few teams of Krogan, Batarian, Human, Asari Commandos, Balak, Zaeed, Shepard, Grunt among them along with some Quarian and Asari tech experts. We activate the relay and bring four nuclear bombs onto the Citadel via the Conduit and place them at four points on the ring that holds the thing together. We set the bombs and defend our positions, and blow the ****ing thing to hell. Now they can't shut down the relay system. And the Citadel goes BOOM!!! as well and possibly supernova, and it's right next to all those reapers and earth. Wow. Time it right and Joker can pick us all up in the Normandy and we scram out of the system under covering fire. Talk about a suicide mission.

We have a force in system to keep the reapers engaged and from making a quick escape through the sol relay if they get wind of what is going on.

So earth is vaporized along with all those reapers.

[AzuraAngellus]

SoloPala wrote...

AzuraAngellus wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

Also, WTF are these races doing when the Batarians get annihilated, i know the Batarians removed themselves from council politics, but did none of them keep tabs on the Rogue state, or think that absolutely 0 word coming from their region was normal?

But noooooo the Reapers come out of Batarian space completely unnoticed, and the Alliance forgoes its Sun Tzu doctrine of "Attempt to defend everything, you defend nothing" and place their fleets all over the god damned place.

Unfortunately I don't think Sun Tzu predicted an enemy like the Reapers.. they were designed to where conventional tactics are impossible to implement against them. It was the Alliances' best choice, no one taught them how to fight Reapers.

Thats the problem though, they didn't even listen to their own Military doctrine, which is put everything you got in 1 spot, scout to make sure you know where they are at all times, its exactly what the Turians did and they held the line, on top of thats not even what the Turians are about, their doctrine puts them in a slug out drag out brawl most of the time.

Good point. Though perhaps the Reapers attacked so quickly  that the Alliance wasn't able to withdraw all of their forces fast enough since before the Reapers came there was no reason to have a huge, massed fleet sitting above Earth. *Shrug*

[A0170]

Elyiia wrote...

Retreat out of the system, adapt antimatter to work with fighter ammunition. Pew pew pew.

Isn't there only one relay out of Sol? Booby trap the hell out it.

Nice. 

Booby trapping can work. We can leave those resonant warp bombs that the Turians used during the battle of Taetrus.

[Deuterium_Dawn]

[quote]A0170 wrote...

[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

[quote]A0170 wrote...

[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...
[quote]A0170 wrote...

Yes,
but your forgetting that the Turians only came to Earth after the
Krogans helped them turn the tide on Palaven. Remember, Victus said he
wouldn't commit the Turian fleet to Earth unless the pressure is
releaved on his homeworld. This implies that Palaven is first and
foremost in the minds of the Turian leadership at the moment. Maybe in a
later generation or two would they even consider sacrificing Palaven
but with Victus in charge I just don't see it. 
[/quote]

I haven't forgotten. After the initial invasion, the galaxy was divided, scattered, scared. There's no reason for Victus to abandon his homeworld solely to defend someone else's. We come up with a plan and we unite the galaxy behind that plan. I'm not talking about sacrificing Earth just to save Thessia or vice versa. I'm talking about sacrificing Earth as a last resort to save all life that will ever be born in the galaxy, or in the very worst case scenario, to weaken the Reapers as much as possible so that future cycles might have a chance.[/quote]

[quote]Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

[quote]A0170 wrote...
I do too, but that still doesn't stop your allies from abandoning your
cause or trying to assassinate you on a later occassion. Asking them to
sacrifice their homeworlds for the cause would undoubtedly generate such
a reaction. Don't get me wrong, I agree that we have to do everything
we can to win. I'm just asking how long we can cross the line before
their convinced that you pose just a great of a threat to their species
as the Reapers do, and therefore respond with what they feel is an
appropiate response.
[/quote]

If they can't see that if we fail defeat the reapers their species is screwed anyway then there's no hope. Crucible or no Crucible you're still asking every race in the galaxy to abandon their homes to gamble on defeating the Reapers at Earth.[/quote]

This is the ME leadership remember? My god, even with a full fledge Reaper invasion and the promise of the Crucible at the beginning of ME3, their representatives on the Council still refuse to help. Instead they prefered to look after their own territory when obivously a united effort was what we needed. And look at all the hoops we had to jump through just to get their cooperation. The Turians wanted Krogan support, the Krogan wanted a cure for the genophage, and the Salarians wanted you to sabotage it. The Asari wouldn't even join until later. And remember, they had the promise of the Crucible to lure them into participate. How long would those fragile alliances last when they realize we'd want them to commit their forces to a risky military offensive that would leave their homeworlds undefended? Again, I agree with you in that they'd have to do whatever was necessary in the end, but the stupidity of our allied leadership could destroy our chances if we ask them to risk too much.
[/quote]

We have no choice. We risk it all or we lose by default. Also on a related note, I think Bioware really overdid the whole Reaper denial thing just so they could push their "no conventional victory". I get that politicians can be idiotic but they went way past the realms of the believable. This would be like trying to continue appeasement as Poland falls. [/quote]

Agreed about your first point and that the writers bent over backwards to push the "no conventional victory" theme. But appeasement happened in real life, showing that we can never underestimate the stupidity of our politicians.
[/quote]

That was my point though. Eventually it became obvious even to them that appeasement wasn't going to work and they stood behind Poland, even if it was largely symbolic in the immediate sense. The council has the Reapers shoved right in their face repeatedly and first continues to deny the Reapers then decides that retreating to their own territory(especially those races not yet attacked) and letting themselves be executed one by one is the best strategy.

[quote]AzuraAngellus wrote...

[quote]SoloPala wrote...

[quote]AzuraAngellus wrote...

[quote]SoloPala wrote...

Also,
WTF are these races doing when the Batarians get annihilated, i know
the Batarians removed themselves from council politics, but did none of
them keep tabs on the Rogue state, or think that absolutely 0 word
coming from their region was normal?

But noooooo the Reapers
come out of Batarian space completely unnoticed, and the Alliance
forgoes its Sun Tzu doctrine of "Attempt to defend everything, you
defend nothing" and place their fleets all over the god damned
place.[/quote]
Unfortunately I don't think Sun Tzu predicted an enemy
like the Reapers.. they were designed to where conventional tactics are
impossible to implement against them. It was the Alliances' best
choice, no one taught them how to fight Reapers.

[/quote]

Thats
the problem though, they didn't even listen to their own Military
doctrine, which is put everything you got in 1 spot, scout to make sure
you know where they are at all times, its exactly what the Turians did
and they held the line, on top of thats not even what the Turians are
about, their doctrine puts them in a slug out drag out brawl most of the
time.

[/quote]
Good point. Though perhaps the Reapers attacked so quickly [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/ninja.png[/smilie] that
the Alliance wasn't able to withdraw all of their forces fast enough
since before the Reapers came there was no reason to have a huge, massed
fleet sitting above Earth. *Shrug*

[/quote]

Codex entries suggest they were stationed there in anticipation of the Reaper invasion. A few fleets were stationed at Arcturus, a couple in sol, the other strung out defending various relays where they were either obliterated or bypassed.

Modifié par Deuterium_Dawn, 11 mai 2012 - 01:16 .

[SoloPala]

Malanek999 wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

Honestly, even if the galaxy lost against the reapers, the cycle would probably be broken, they'd have lost far too much, and the Yahg look like they'd dominate the next cycle and those guys are no joke.

The Yahg could be easily dealt with. They are still all (well almost all) confined to one planet with no way of getting off. 

If thousands of reapers are destroyed in this cycle, its extremely likely they wouldn't have the power to cleanse the galaxy, it took 300 years to cleanse the Protheans, now imagine doing that with a huge fraction of your power demolished.

You said "even if the galaxy lost against the reapers" and so I replied under that assumption. The Yahg could be dealt with easily. A single council ship could bombard the planet let alone a reaper. There is nothing to say they have to wait another 50,000 years for the yahg to advance. They would look at their rate of technological advancement and work out whether it was a problem or not. At the moment it is certainly a no.

My point still stands, the yahg, or Alien race #84573896, even if the reapers defeat the galaxy they'd have lost too much to continue the cycle.

[A0170]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

A0170 wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

A0170 wrote...

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

A0170 wrote...

Yes,
but your forgetting that the Turians only came to Earth after the
Krogans helped them turn the tide on Palaven. Remember, Victus said he
wouldn't commit the Turian fleet to Earth unless the pressure is
releaved on his homeworld. This implies that Palaven is first and
foremost in the minds of the Turian leadership at the moment. Maybe in a
later generation or two would they even consider sacrificing Palaven
but with Victus in charge I just don't see it. 

I haven't forgotten. After the initial invasion, the galaxy was divided, scattered, scared. There's no reason for Victus to abandon his homeworld solely to defend someone else's. We come up with a plan and we unite the galaxy behind that plan. I'm not talking about sacrificing Earth just to save Thessia or vice versa. I'm talking about sacrificing Earth as a last resort to save all life that will ever be born in the galaxy, or in the very worst case scenario, to weaken the Reapers as much as possible so that future cycles might have a chance.

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

A0170 wrote...
I do too, but that still doesn't stop your allies from abandoning your
cause or trying to assassinate you on a later occassion. Asking them to
sacrifice their homeworlds for the cause would undoubtedly generate such
a reaction. Don't get me wrong, I agree that we have to do everything
we can to win. I'm just asking how long we can cross the line before
their convinced that you pose just a great of a threat to their species
as the Reapers do, and therefore respond with what they feel is an
appropiate response.

If they can't see that if we fail defeat the reapers their species is screwed anyway then there's no hope. Crucible or no Crucible you're still asking every race in the galaxy to abandon their homes to gamble on defeating the Reapers at Earth.

This is the ME leadership remember? My god, even with a full fledge Reaper invasion and the promise of the Crucible at the beginning of ME3, their representatives on the Council still refuse to help. Instead they prefered to look after their own territory when obivously a united effort was what we needed. And look at all the hoops we had to jump through just to get their cooperation. The Turians wanted Krogan support, the Krogan wanted a cure for the genophage, and the Salarians wanted you to sabotage it. The Asari wouldn't even join until later. And remember, they had the promise of the Crucible to lure them into participate. How long would those fragile alliances last when they realize we'd want them to commit their forces to a risky military offensive that would leave their homeworlds undefended? Again, I agree with you in that they'd have to do whatever was necessary in the end, but the stupidity of our allied leadership could destroy our chances if we ask them to risk too much.

We have no choice. We risk it all or we lose by default. Also on a related note, I think Bioware really overdid the whole Reaper denial thing just so they could push their "no conventional victory". I get that politicians can be idiotic but they went way past the realms of the believable. This would be like trying to continue appeasement as Poland falls.

Agreed about your first point and that the writers bent over backwards to push the "no conventional victory" theme. But appeasement happened in real life, showing that we can never underestimate the stupidity of our politicians.

That was my point though. Eventually it became obvious even to them that appeasement wasn't going to work and they stood behind Poland, even if it was largely symbolic in the immediate sense. The council has the Reapers shoved right in their face repeatedly and first continues to deny the Reapers then decides that retreating to their own territory(especially those races not yet attacked) and letting themselves be executed one by one is the best strategy.

Right I agree. I'm just saying with the way the writers portrayed the ME leadership, we can never underestimate just how willing they are to ignore reality. Even with the Reapers invading, if we ask them to do too much, there's a big chance they'll do something stupid again and our war effort will crumble. 

Modifié par A0170, 11 mai 2012 - 01:18 .

[Malanek]

SoloPala wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

Honestly, even if the galaxy lost against the reapers, the cycle would probably be broken, they'd have lost far too much, and the Yahg look like they'd dominate the next cycle and those guys are no joke.

The Yahg could be easily dealt with. They are still all (well almost all) confined to one planet with no way of getting off. 

If thousands of reapers are destroyed in this cycle, its extremely likely they wouldn't have the power to cleanse the galaxy, it took 300 years to cleanse the Protheans, now imagine doing that with a huge fraction of your power demolished.

You said "even if the galaxy lost against the reapers" and so I replied under that assumption. The Yahg could be dealt with easily. A single council ship could bombard the planet let alone a reaper. There is nothing to say they have to wait another 50,000 years for the yahg to advance. They would look at their rate of technological advancement and work out whether it was a problem or not. At the moment it is certainly a no.

My point still stands, the yahg, or Alien race #84573896, even if the reapers defeat the galaxy they'd have lost too much to continue the cycle.

The cycle could probably be restarted if a single capable Reaper survived. It would just have to start a lot slower, species would have to be reaped earlier and more frequently. We don't know the details or why they wait so long, but assuming there is no reason why new reapers can't be built from pre-spaceflight species the whole thing can be kicked off again.

[SoloPala]

AzuraAngellus wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

AzuraAngellus wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

Also, WTF are these races doing when the Batarians get annihilated, i know the Batarians removed themselves from council politics, but did none of them keep tabs on the Rogue state, or think that absolutely 0 word coming from their region was normal?

But noooooo the Reapers come out of Batarian space completely unnoticed, and the Alliance forgoes its Sun Tzu doctrine of "Attempt to defend everything, you defend nothing" and place their fleets all over the god damned place.

Unfortunately I don't think Sun Tzu predicted an enemy like the Reapers.. they were designed to where conventional tactics are impossible to implement against them. It was the Alliances' best choice, no one taught them how to fight Reapers.

Thats the problem though, they didn't even listen to their own Military doctrine, which is put everything you got in 1 spot, scout to make sure you know where they are at all times, its exactly what the Turians did and they held the line, on top of thats not even what the Turians are about, their doctrine puts them in a slug out drag out brawl most of the time.

Good point. Though perhaps the Reapers attacked so quickly  that the Alliance wasn't able to withdraw all of their forces fast enough since before the Reapers came there was no reason to have a huge, massed fleet sitting above Earth. *Shrug*

Which goes back to my other point, why were they not keeping tabs on the batarians who are the Alliances sworn enemy, and if thye were doing so they would have seen the reaper fleets and reported back.

[Elyiia]

SoloPala wrote...


Which goes back to my other point, why were they not keeping tabs on the batarians who are the Alliances sworn enemy, and if thye were doing so they would have seen the reaper fleets and reported back.

They don't even need to keep tabs on the Batarians, they know the Reapers are arriving in Batarian space because of Shepard's report on the events of Arrival.

[SoloPala]

Malanek999 wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

Honestly, even if the galaxy lost against the reapers, the cycle would probably be broken, they'd have lost far too much, and the Yahg look like they'd dominate the next cycle and those guys are no joke.

The Yahg could be easily dealt with. They are still all (well almost all) confined to one planet with no way of getting off. 

If thousands of reapers are destroyed in this cycle, its extremely likely they wouldn't have the power to cleanse the galaxy, it took 300 years to cleanse the Protheans, now imagine doing that with a huge fraction of your power demolished.

You said "even if the galaxy lost against the reapers" and so I replied under that assumption. The Yahg could be dealt with easily. A single council ship could bombard the planet let alone a reaper. There is nothing to say they have to wait another 50,000 years for the yahg to advance. They would look at their rate of technological advancement and work out whether it was a problem or not. At the moment it is certainly a no.

My point still stands, the yahg, or Alien race #84573896, even if the reapers defeat the galaxy they'd have lost too much to continue the cycle.

The cycle could probably be restarted if a single capable Reaper survived. It would just have to start a lot slower, species would have to be reaped earlier and more frequently. We don't know the details or why they wait so long, but assuming there is no reason why new reapers can't be built from pre-spaceflight species the whole thing can be kicked off again.

Pretty sure the reason they wait so long is so they can see who made it to the citadel which becomes the galactic center for governement, and then they spread out and annihilate anyone one in the database.  Doing otherwise would be impossible, the galaxy is far to large to sweep it from corner to corner.

[Deuterium_Dawn]

Malanek999 wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

Honestly, even if the galaxy lost against the reapers, the cycle would probably be broken, they'd have lost far too much, and the Yahg look like they'd dominate the next cycle and those guys are no joke.

The Yahg could be easily dealt with. They are still all (well almost all) confined to one planet with no way of getting off. 

If thousands of reapers are destroyed in this cycle, its extremely likely they wouldn't have the power to cleanse the galaxy, it took 300 years to cleanse the Protheans, now imagine doing that with a huge fraction of your power demolished.

You said "even if the galaxy lost against the reapers" and so I replied under that assumption. The Yahg could be dealt with easily. A single council ship could bombard the planet let alone a reaper. There is nothing to say they have to wait another 50,000 years for the yahg to advance. They would look at their rate of technological advancement and work out whether it was a problem or not. At the moment it is certainly a no.

My point still stands, the yahg, or Alien race #84573896, even if the reapers defeat the galaxy they'd have lost too much to continue the cycle.

The cycle could probably be restarted if a single capable Reaper survived. It would just have to start a lot slower, species would have to be reaped earlier and more frequently. We don't know the details or why they wait so long, but assuming there is no reason why new reapers can't be built from pre-spaceflight species the whole thing can be kicked off again.

Think it has something to do with needing sufficient numbers.  They wait until just before organics advance enough to be a serious threat, then harvest the trillions or tens of trillions of people provide there's a suitable species that cycle.  Though after the near miss with the Protheans, who seemed to be on the very edge of being advanced enough to defeat the reapers they may have decided to play it a little safer. Sovereign seems to have first attempted to signal the Citadel when the Council races had been starfarers for barely a thousand years, whereas the Protheans seem to have had much longer, perhaps most of the fifty thousand year average. Also as the poster above me pointed about, allowing them to first reach the Citadel makes them much easier to find and harvest.

Modifié par Deuterium_Dawn, 11 mai 2012 - 01:25 .

[SoloPala]

Elyiia wrote...

SoloPala wrote...


Which goes back to my other point, why were they not keeping tabs on the batarians who are the Alliances sworn enemy, and if thye were doing so they would have seen the reaper fleets and reported back.

They don't even need to keep tabs on the Batarians, they know the Reapers are arriving in Batarian space because of Shepard's report on the events of Arrival.

True, but my point also spread to the other citadel races, i mean they can't be so dumb as to leave the batarians alone without at least keeping tabs on their movements.

[AzuraAngellus]

[quote]AzuraAngellus wrote...

[quote]SoloPala wrote...

[quote]AzuraAngellus wrote...

[quote]SoloPala wrote...

Also,
WTF are these races doing when the Batarians get annihilated, i know
the Batarians removed themselves from council politics, but did none of
them keep tabs on the Rogue state, or think that absolutely 0 word
coming from their region was normal?

But noooooo the Reapers
come out of Batarian space completely unnoticed, and the Alliance
forgoes its Sun Tzu doctrine of "Attempt to defend everything, you
defend nothing" and place their fleets all over the god damned
place.[/quote]
Unfortunately I don't think Sun Tzu predicted an enemy
like the Reapers.. they were designed to where conventional tactics are
impossible to implement against them. It was the Alliances' best
choice, no one taught them how to fight Reapers.

[/quote]

Thats
the problem though, they didn't even listen to their own Military
doctrine, which is put everything you got in 1 spot, scout to make sure
you know where they are at all times, its exactly what the Turians did
and they held the line, on top of thats not even what the Turians are
about, their doctrine puts them in a slug out drag out brawl most of the
time.

[/quote]
Good point. Though perhaps the Reapers attacked so quickly [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/ninja.png[/smilie] that
the Alliance wasn't able to withdraw all of their forces fast enough
since before the Reapers came there was no reason to have a huge, massed
fleet sitting above Earth. *Shrug*

[/quote]

Codex entries suggest they were stationed there in anticipation of the Reaper invasion. A few fleets were stationed at Arcturus, a couple in sol, the other strung out defending various relays where they were either obliterated or bypassed.

[/quote]
Ah yeah you got me there, however that is only the Alliance fleet. What hope would they have had even if they were all massed together? I'd expect Earth would've just been a larger graveyard without the support of all the other races. It was probably good that they wern't all bunched up, that they got to survive to fight another day.

EDIT: Shortened.

Modifié par AzuraAngellus, 11 mai 2012 - 01:33 .

[Elyiia]

SoloPala wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

SoloPala wrote...


Which goes back to my other point, why were they not keeping tabs on the batarians who are the Alliances sworn enemy, and if thye were doing so they would have seen the reaper fleets and reported back.

They don't even need to keep tabs on the Batarians, they know the Reapers are arriving in Batarian space because of Shepard's report on the events of Arrival.

True, but my point also spread to the other citadel races, i mean they can't be so dumb as to leave the batarians alone without at least keeping tabs on their movements.

I agree, but Hacket believes Shepard and would have sent the report on the Reapers directly to the council. Just to add to your point.

They're clearly ignoring two distinct situations that warn of the Reapers.

[SoloPala]

AzuraAngellus wrote...
Ah yeah you got me there, however that is only the Alliance fleet. What hope would they have had even if they were all massed together? I'd expect Earth would've just been a larger graveyard without the support of all the other races. It was probably good that they wern't all bunched up, that they got to survive to fight another day.

The Alliance fleet is stated to be almost as powerful as the Turians fleet if not as strong, and since the Turians didn't get annihilated theres no reason to think the Alliance would have if they were all at a unified front, and at the very least it would have given the citadel races a chance to help earth, seeing as the reapers would have been bogged down and unable to move towards their space.

Modifié par SoloPala, 11 mai 2012 - 01:32 .

[Deuterium_Dawn]

AzuraAngellus wrote...
Ah yeah you got me there, however that is only the Alliance fleet. What hope would they have had even if they were all massed together? I'd expect Earth would've just been a larger graveyard without the support of all the other races. It was probably good that they wern't all bunched up, that they got to survive to fight another day.

If that was the plan then they should have never have been there to begin with. A significant portion of the Alliance's strength essentially died for nothing.

SoloPala wrote...

AzuraAngellus wrote...
Ah yeah
you got me there, however that is only the Alliance fleet. What hope
would they have had even if they were all massed together? I'd expect
Earth would've just been a larger graveyard without the support of all
the other races. It was probably good that they wern't all bunched up,
that they got to survive to fight another day.

The
Alliance fleet is stated to be almost as powerful as the Turians fleet
if not as strong, and since the Turians didn't get annihilated theres no
reason to think the Alliance would have if they were all at a unified
front, and at the very least it would have given the citadel races a
chance to help earth, seeing as the reapers would have been bogged down
and unable to move towards their space.

The Turians do have an enormous advantage in numbers. The Alliance's strength is in its flexiblity and moblity, but in a situation where they're forced to defend Earth and essentially trade blows with the Reapers they would probably get slaughtered on their own.

Modifié par Deuterium_Dawn, 11 mai 2012 - 01:37 .

[AzuraAngellus]

SoloPala wrote...

AzuraAngellus wrote...
Ah yeah you got me there, however that is only the Alliance fleet. What hope would they have had even if they were all massed together? I'd expect Earth would've just been a larger graveyard without the support of all the other races. It was probably good that they wern't all bunched up, that they got to survive to fight another day.

The Alliance fleet is stated to be almost as powerful as the Turians fleet if not as strong, and since the Turians didn't get annihilated theres no reason to think the Alliance would have if they were all at a unified front, and at the very least it would have given the citadel races a chance to help earth, seeing as the reapers would have been bogged down and unable to move towards their space.

I thought the Reapers sent their largest fleet to Earth, not Palaven. 

[SoloPala]

AzuraAngellus wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

AzuraAngellus wrote...
Ah yeah you got me there, however that is only the Alliance fleet. What hope would they have had even if they were all massed together? I'd expect Earth would've just been a larger graveyard without the support of all the other races. It was probably good that they wern't all bunched up, that they got to survive to fight another day.

The Alliance fleet is stated to be almost as powerful as the Turians fleet if not as strong, and since the Turians didn't get annihilated theres no reason to think the Alliance would have if they were all at a unified front, and at the very least it would have given the citadel races a chance to help earth, seeing as the reapers would have been bogged down and unable to move towards their space.

I thought the Reapers sent their largest fleet to Earth, not Palaven. 

I'd imagine most of the reapers then split off and attacked the others, seeing as the alliance abondoned earth completely after about 10 minutes 

[Gen Petitt]

To respond to the title of the thread I would laugh if the response was "Finish the fight SPAR umm I mean Shepard"

[Deuterium_Dawn]

Gen Petitt wrote...

To respond to the title of the thread I would laugh if the response was "Finish the fight SPAR umm I mean Shepard"

Still a better ending.

[AzuraAngellus]

SoloPala wrote...

AzuraAngellus wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

AzuraAngellus wrote...
Ah yeah you got me there, however that is only the Alliance fleet. What hope would they have had even if they were all massed together? I'd expect Earth would've just been a larger graveyard without the support of all the other races. It was probably good that they wern't all bunched up, that they got to survive to fight another day.

The Alliance fleet is stated to be almost as powerful as the Turians fleet if not as strong, and since the Turians didn't get annihilated theres no reason to think the Alliance would have if they were all at a unified front, and at the very least it would have given the citadel races a chance to help earth, seeing as the reapers would have been bogged down and unable to move towards their space.

I thought the Reapers sent their largest fleet to Earth, not Palaven. 

I'd imagine most of the reapers then split off and attacked the others, seeing as the alliance abondoned earth completely after about 10 minutes 

Quite possibly, but the Reapers numbers could be immense enough to open both fronts up with sizeable forces. 

[SoloPala]

AzuraAngellus wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

AzuraAngellus wrote...

SoloPala wrote...

AzuraAngellus wrote...
Ah yeah you got me there, however that is only the Alliance fleet. What hope would they have had even if they were all massed together? I'd expect Earth would've just been a larger graveyard without the support of all the other races. It was probably good that they wern't all bunched up, that they got to survive to fight another day.

The Alliance fleet is stated to be almost as powerful as the Turians fleet if not as strong, and since the Turians didn't get annihilated theres no reason to think the Alliance would have if they were all at a unified front, and at the very least it would have given the citadel races a chance to help earth, seeing as the reapers would have been bogged down and unable to move towards their space.

I thought the Reapers sent their largest fleet to Earth, not Palaven. 

I'd imagine most of the reapers then split off and attacked the others, seeing as the alliance abondoned earth completely after about 10 minutes 

Quite possibly, but the Reapers numbers could be immense enough to open both fronts up with sizeable forces. 

They seemed to think so, the Turians strongly disagreed however.  Thats what kills me as to why we couldn't just fight them conventionally, they really only sent strong attack forces at the Turians and the Asari after Earth, the Salarians seemed to be an after thought, despite still having a huge force, and they only conquered the Asari and were unable to defeat the Turians.  Almost seems like maybe the Alliance should have joined the Turians to defend Palaven IMO.

Modifié par SoloPala, 11 mai 2012 - 01:49 .

[JShepppp]

Well summed up A0170. I agree that the Citadel is super important because it gives the Reapers the power to turn on/off the relays. I'd say that is such a decisive factor that we would have to anyways do a last-ditch attempt to save the Citadel (whatever it takes) in order to stop that from happening.

We can try to escape into random areas, but the Reapers would know which relays were activated and follow. If we don't take the Citadel, we'll lose the ability to retake anything else. Yes, we need more resources, but without the Citadel, it'd be useless to try to take back other worlds if all that does is split up the fleet and divide us more easily for the Reapers, and we wouldn't be able to use the resources for anything other than defense, which we see can be worn down by enough offense by the Reapers if they focus with the relays.

TL;DR: Throw EVERYTHING we have at the Citadel, get it, somehow find a way to gain control of the relays, then after that decide how to use the relay control to gather resources and delay the Reapers. Come up with ways to defeat them. We need resources and time, and we need access to the relay network if they're ever going to be useful.

Just my opinion, of course. Interesting thread.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I say we blow up the Citadel from the inside. If we can't control it, deny the Reapers the resource. We can easily build some nuclear bombs (probably would want to use 10 MT anti-matter bombs and about 4 of them) and get them there via Ilos with a few teams and blow the place from the inside. Plus that's where Starbrat hangs out. Who knows what they'll do when their controller is vaporized?

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 11 mai 2012 - 04:18 .