Catamantaloedis wrote...
Electavire wrote...
Hey guys, turns out its okay to doom an entire species because we don't like them!
It's because they're a barbaric, genocidal race of brutes.
Electavire wrote...
Catamantaloedis wrote...
Electavire wrote...
Hey guys, turns out its okay to doom an entire species because we don't like them!
It's because they're a barbaric, genocidal race of brutes.
Sweeping generalizations are fun, but be a careful one.
If I looked at human history from the outside, I'd think we we're a barbaric, genocidal race of brutes.
poundoffleshaa wrote...
Electavire wrote...
Catamantaloedis wrote...
Electavire wrote...
Hey guys, turns out its okay to doom an entire species because we don't like them!
It's because they're a barbaric, genocidal race of brutes.
Sweeping generalizations are fun, but be a careful one.
If I looked at human history from the outside, I'd think we we're a barbaric, genocidal race of brutes.
Well they wouldn't be wrong not right either but the arguement has merits.
Electavire wrote...
poundoffleshaa wrote...
Electavire wrote...
Catamantaloedis wrote...
Electavire wrote...
Hey guys, turns out its okay to doom an entire species because we don't like them!
It's because they're a barbaric, genocidal race of brutes.
Sweeping generalizations are fun, but be a careful one.
If I looked at human history from the outside, I'd think we we're a barbaric, genocidal race of brutes.
Well they wouldn't be wrong not right either but the arguement has merits.
Actually, they would be wrong. Not every person is a sociopathic douche. Just the ones on the news and in history books. You can't condem an entire race to die because people like Hitler existed.
Krogan are the same way. They don't all want to kill everyone. Just look at Wrex. And besides, they saved the galaxy once.
Catamantaloedis wrote...
Electavire wrote...
poundoffleshaa wrote...
Electavire wrote...
Catamantaloedis wrote...
Electavire wrote...
Hey guys, turns out its okay to doom an entire species because we don't like them!
It's because they're a barbaric, genocidal race of brutes.
Sweeping generalizations are fun, but be a careful one.
If I looked at human history from the outside, I'd think we we're a barbaric, genocidal race of brutes.
Well they wouldn't be wrong not right either but the arguement has merits.
Actually, they would be wrong. Not every person is a sociopathic douche. Just the ones on the news and in history books. You can't condem an entire race to die because people like Hitler existed.
Krogan are the same way. They don't all want to kill everyone. Just look at Wrex. And besides, they saved the galaxy once.
They saved the galaxy under the guidance of a superior race. Now they want to be freed from the chains rightfully imposed upon them by their betters.
And to that I respond with a simple question. Which of these shoes has the best style for my Shepard?
There certainly will be a lot more material for such fine products. The prices are sure to drop soon, and I'm already picking out preferred specimen.
http://desmond.image...ng&res=landing
Modifié par Catamantaloedis, 12 mai 2012 - 10:06 .
Modifié par Pipe 42, 12 mai 2012 - 10:40 .
Modifié par Pthosmosis, 12 mai 2012 - 10:56 .
Pipe 42 wrote...
I can't help myself. I have to comment. Whilst there are pro's and con's both sides on this argument based on past actions of the krogan as a whole, part of the reason they are the way they are is because of a lack of hope that things can be better for them.
Whilst I'm no krogan historian, looking at Tuchanka before the krogan were uplifted shows that they did have a culture, sure it was harsh but the world is a deathtrap.
The ones at fault here are the salarians. Think about it, you give a technologically inferior species instant access to weapons so powerful they can destroy a planet's atmosphere without first allowing them as a species to evolve the maturity to use these weapons. Granted, the rachni wars were desperate and they needed a solution now. But why were they surprised when an army of warriors bred for war didn't stand down as soon as those above them suggested. It takes a little time for societal change to occur, even with Eve and Wrex fighting hard for this change it will take time, but it's time they have now because they aren't facing the threat of extinction everyday.
Hope makes all the difference, imagine a life without hope. Nothing you do matters, nothing will get better and everyone despises you for crimes committed eons ago. Wouldn't you be a little cheesed off?
Also, look at what Wrex does with the power he wields as clan chief compared to Wreav. Wrex has the krogan engineer working on irrigation and pharmacology whereas Wreav has him working on bombs. When you wipe out the other clan, Wrex welcomes the females and children with open arms and requires the warriors to swear an oath of fealty. Wreav just kills them.
Granted it could all go horribly wrong if Wrex is killed by someone like Wreav even with Eve to help. But these decisions cannot be based on supposition (will there be a rebellion, or a renaissance?) These decisions can only be made based on what you know, and depending wh leads the krogan depends on whether I cure it or not. Wrex, yes with Eve, Wreav no.
Anyhow, that's my 2 pence worth.
Modifié par Catamantaloedis, 12 mai 2012 - 11:28 .
Catamantaloedis wrote...
Before the Krogan were uplifted, they destroyed themselves with nuclear weaponry. They were savage then, they are savage now, they will be savage forever.
You're exactly right. Either we kill them all or the purity of the universe is threatened by their filth. They will always be animals because it is in their nature.Pipe 42 wrote...
Catamantaloedis wrote...
Before the Krogan were uplifted, they destroyed themselves with nuclear weaponry. They were savage then, they are savage now, they will be savage forever.
So you've debunked one of my claims with information given in game. Great. Where does it say that the krogan are animals, no more deserving of life than an aemoeba?
I grant the full repurcussions of either decision are not observable in game, which merely means you have to decide based on your own morals with the information you are given.
I'll grant that you believe curing the genephage is a bad idea. But that doesn't make your observation any more correct than anybody else's, which seems to be the opinion you are trying to put ove. I'll be honest, in some circumstances I wouldn't cure the genophage either. But based on what has happened in my game I felt that the krogan were deservng onf the opportunity to make amends for past misdeeds.
There doen't seem to be any room for grey in your posts. It's kill em all no matter what, there's no hope for redemption as you will not grant it. Fine, but I believe people/animals etc. can learn from their mistakes. It's not as black and white as you make out.
Catamantaloedis wrote...
Before the Krogan were uplifted, they destroyed themselves with nuclear weaponry. They were savage then, they are savage now, they will be savage forever.
Modifié par Deuterium_Dawn, 13 mai 2012 - 12:47 .
Deuterium_Dawn wrote...
So people are still feeding the troll. I guess I'll help.Catamantaloedis wrote...
Before the Krogan were uplifted, they destroyed themselves with nuclear weaponry. They were savage then, they are savage now, they will be savage forever.
Do you have any idea how close we came to doing that during the Cold War?
Catamantaloedis wrote...
Deuterium_Dawn wrote...
So people are still feeding the troll. I guess I'll help.Catamantaloedis wrote...
Before the Krogan were uplifted, they destroyed themselves with nuclear weaponry. They were savage then, they are savage now, they will be savage forever.
Do you have any idea how close we came to doing that during the Cold War?
We never came that close, believe it or not. The closest being the Cuban Missile Crisis, but in reality, it would have taken a lot more to push either side to make a first strike, because human beings are rational.
Some Krogan even praise the fact that nuclear war occured and destroyed their civilization, because it made them "stronger".
Accidents dont count.KingZayd wrote...
Catamantaloedis wrote...
Deuterium_Dawn wrote...
So people are still feeding the troll. I guess I'll help.Catamantaloedis wrote...
Before the Krogan were uplifted, they destroyed themselves with nuclear weaponry. They were savage then, they are savage now, they will be savage forever.
Do you have any idea how close we came to doing that during the Cold War?
We never came that close, believe it or not. The closest being the Cuban Missile Crisis, but in reality, it would have taken a lot more to push either side to make a first strike, because human beings are rational.
Some Krogan even praise the fact that nuclear war occured and destroyed their civilization, because it made them "stronger".
False. the closest we came was when the Russian surveillance systems seemed to show that that the US were launching all their nuclear missiles. Turned out later that it was a glitch, but it was lucky that the guy in charge decided that it was a false alarm. He lost his job.
Tapkomet wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
111987 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
Oh you suspect they'll be able to nuke the galaxy? you're quite scared of the Krogan aren't you?
Well in the past they did drop asteroids on garden planets...KingZayd wrote...
humans have been pretty barbaric themselves. maybe we should make a genophage for them too? (Cerberus)
salarians have been pretty barbaric themselves. maybe we should make a genophage for them too? (uplifting these violent species for these same violent characteristics they desire, also designing and renewing genophage)
turians have been pretty barbaric themselves. maybe we should make a genophage for them too? (deploying genophage, and also starting a war because humans tried to open a relay. there was no attempt at diplomacy)
quarians have been pretty barbaric themselves. maybe we should make a genophage for them too? (attempted genocide of the geth. starting a completely unnecessary war on the geth again)
batarians have been pretty barbaric themselves. maybe we should make a genophage for them too? (imperalist slavers)
asari have been pretty barbaric themselves. maybe we should make a genophage for them too? (hoarding important prothean relics, very harsh treatment of the Ardat Yakshi, who have a genetic condition, partially to keep it a secret.)
vorcha have been pretty barbaric themselves. maybe we should make a genophage for them too? (almost all of them are petty gangters)
yahg have been pretty barbaric themselves. maybe we should make a genophage for them too? [They massacred the Citadel delegation. Also, the only one we've encountered (outside the Salarian base) was the vicious Shadow Broker]
geth have been pretty barbaric themselves (siding with the reapers despite the implications for all the other races in the galaxy). maybe we should blow them up (since they have no genes)?
The difference is that none of those races individually are powerful enough to challenge the combined forces of the galaxy. Due to the speed of Krogan reproduction, along with all their other physical advantages, coupled with their biologically aggressive drives, they pose a greater threat to galactic stability because left unchecked, they could very well doom the galaxy.
Oh no! Big Scary Krogan! KILL IT! Oh no, maybe we should try and change the crucible so we can use synthesis to make us all part Krogan? I wasn't aware superior biology should be punished by death.
TIM DID indoctrinate a whole bunch of people. Clearly humans should be exterminated too.
We should totally exterminate every sapient species in the Galaxy. And the semi-sapient (dolphins?) Imagine how pissed off Reapers wiil be.
Modifié par KingZayd, 13 mai 2012 - 01:40 .
KingZayd wrote...
Catamantaloedis wrote...
Deuterium_Dawn wrote...
So people are still feeding the troll. I guess I'll help.Catamantaloedis wrote...
Before the Krogan were uplifted, they destroyed themselves with nuclear weaponry. They were savage then, they are savage now, they will be savage forever.
Do you have any idea how close we came to doing that during the Cold War?
We never came that close, believe it or not. The closest being the Cuban Missile Crisis, but in reality, it would have taken a lot more to push either side to make a first strike, because human beings are rational.
Some Krogan even praise the fact that nuclear war occured and destroyed their civilization, because it made them "stronger".
False. the closest we came was when the Russian surveillance systems seemed to show that that the US were launching all their nuclear missiles. Turned out later that it was a glitch, but it was lucky that the guy in charge decided that it was a false alarm. He lost his job.
Catamantaloedis wrote...
Accidents dont count.KingZayd wrote...
Catamantaloedis wrote...
Deuterium_Dawn wrote...
So people are still feeding the troll. I guess I'll help.Catamantaloedis wrote...
Before the Krogan were uplifted, they destroyed themselves with nuclear weaponry. They were savage then, they are savage now, they will be savage forever.
Do you have any idea how close we came to doing that during the Cold War?
We never came that close, believe it or not. The closest being the Cuban Missile Crisis, but in reality, it would have taken a lot more to push either side to make a first strike, because human beings are rational.
Some Krogan even praise the fact that nuclear war occured and destroyed their civilization, because it made them "stronger".
False. the closest we came was when the Russian surveillance systems seemed to show that that the US were launching all their nuclear missiles. Turned out later that it was a glitch, but it was lucky that the guy in charge decided that it was a false alarm. He lost his job.
111987 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
Catamantaloedis wrote...
Deuterium_Dawn wrote...
So people are still feeding the troll. I guess I'll help.Catamantaloedis wrote...
Before the Krogan were uplifted, they destroyed themselves with nuclear weaponry. They were savage then, they are savage now, they will be savage forever.
Do you have any idea how close we came to doing that during the Cold War?
We never came that close, believe it or not. The closest being the Cuban Missile Crisis, but in reality, it would have taken a lot more to push either side to make a first strike, because human beings are rational.
Some Krogan even praise the fact that nuclear war occured and destroyed their civilization, because it made them "stronger".
False. the closest we came was when the Russian surveillance systems seemed to show that that the US were launching all their nuclear missiles. Turned out later that it was a glitch, but it was lucky that the guy in charge decided that it was a false alarm. He lost his job.
What's your point? The OP's point is that no matter how close we got, we aren't so barbaric and savage as the Krogans, and thus avoided their fate. The Krogan are so depraved some actually think it was a good thing.
So what is your response to this?
KingZayd wrote...
111987 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
Catamantaloedis wrote...
Deuterium_Dawn wrote...
So people are still feeding the troll. I guess I'll help.Catamantaloedis wrote...
Before the Krogan were uplifted, they destroyed themselves with nuclear weaponry. They were savage then, they are savage now, they will be savage forever.
Do you have any idea how close we came to doing that during the Cold War?
We never came that close, believe it or not. The closest being the Cuban Missile Crisis, but in reality, it would have taken a lot more to push either side to make a first strike, because human beings are rational.
Some Krogan even praise the fact that nuclear war occured and destroyed their civilization, because it made them "stronger".
False. the closest we came was when the Russian surveillance systems seemed to show that that the US were launching all their nuclear missiles. Turned out later that it was a glitch, but it was lucky that the guy in charge decided that it was a false alarm. He lost his job.
What's your point? The OP's point is that no matter how close we got, we aren't so barbaric and savage as the Krogans, and thus avoided their fate. The Krogan are so depraved some actually think it was a good thing.
So what is your response to this?
We did get close to destroying ourselves too. it wasn't our "lack of barbarism" that saved us. It was 1 guy.
How do you know the same didn't happen with the Krogan? Just without the guy?
Which Krogan think it was a good thing?
111987 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
111987 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
Catamantaloedis wrote...
Deuterium_Dawn wrote...
So people are still feeding the troll. I guess I'll help.Catamantaloedis wrote...
Before the Krogan were uplifted, they destroyed themselves with nuclear weaponry. They were savage then, they are savage now, they will be savage forever.
Do you have any idea how close we came to doing that during the Cold War?
We never came that close, believe it or not. The closest being the Cuban Missile Crisis, but in reality, it would have taken a lot more to push either side to make a first strike, because human beings are rational.
Some Krogan even praise the fact that nuclear war occured and destroyed their civilization, because it made them "stronger".
False. the closest we came was when the Russian surveillance systems seemed to show that that the US were launching all their nuclear missiles. Turned out later that it was a glitch, but it was lucky that the guy in charge decided that it was a false alarm. He lost his job.
What's your point? The OP's point is that no matter how close we got, we aren't so barbaric and savage as the Krogans, and thus avoided their fate. The Krogan are so depraved some actually think it was a good thing.
So what is your response to this?
We did get close to destroying ourselves too. it wasn't our "lack of barbarism" that saved us. It was 1 guy.
How do you know the same didn't happen with the Krogan? Just without the guy?
Which Krogan think it was a good thing?
The vast majority of humans wouldn't have made a choice to engage in nuclear war. The vast majority of Krogan would.
The Krogan that think they grow more powerful through incidents like the nuclear war.
Modifié par Catamantaloedis, 13 mai 2012 - 01:56 .
KingZayd wrote...
111987 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
111987 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
Catamantaloedis wrote...
Deuterium_Dawn wrote...
So people are still feeding the troll. I guess I'll help.Catamantaloedis wrote...
Before the Krogan were uplifted, they destroyed themselves with nuclear weaponry. They were savage then, they are savage now, they will be savage forever.
Do you have any idea how close we came to doing that during the Cold War?
We never came that close, believe it or not. The closest being the Cuban Missile Crisis, but in reality, it would have taken a lot more to push either side to make a first strike, because human beings are rational.
Some Krogan even praise the fact that nuclear war occured and destroyed their civilization, because it made them "stronger".
False. the closest we came was when the Russian surveillance systems seemed to show that that the US were launching all their nuclear missiles. Turned out later that it was a glitch, but it was lucky that the guy in charge decided that it was a false alarm. He lost his job.
What's your point? The OP's point is that no matter how close we got, we aren't so barbaric and savage as the Krogans, and thus avoided their fate. The Krogan are so depraved some actually think it was a good thing.
So what is your response to this?
We did get close to destroying ourselves too. it wasn't our "lack of barbarism" that saved us. It was 1 guy.
How do you know the same didn't happen with the Krogan? Just without the guy?
Which Krogan think it was a good thing?
The vast majority of humans wouldn't have made a choice to engage in nuclear war. The vast majority of Krogan would.
The Krogan that think they grow more powerful through incidents like the nuclear war.
Source?
Catamantaloedis wrote...
If a glitch destroyed human civilization, then it would be an accident. An insane accident, but an accident nonetheless. Humans would never have purposely instigated a nuclear war which would destroy all of humanity
The Krogan intentionally would and they intentionally did. They are proven to be unable to handle power and therefore should never have the chance to get any.
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